MX-Sport, made in china ??

SeabeeRon Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
> > Hopefully this will clear up the Made in China
> > nonsense!

rustic charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is this non-sense? - They have cleared up why
> they use Chinese parts -
>
> The nonsense I see is that forum 'locks' &
> 'unlocks' threads at will/when it suits - Do the
> Chinese moderate that site as well?

The "nonsense" was that some claimed the machine was made in China. Most thinking people realize everything you buy are going to have components from China or elsewhere around the globe.

tboykin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some nice official responses in that thread on the
> White's forum - Offical White's Forum With Less
> Noise

THIS IS AN OFFENSIVE AN UN-NEEDED COMMENT. AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF WHITES, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO POST THAT. THIS IS THE SAME LACK ON PROFESSIONALISM THAT I HAVE SEEN FROM OTHER WHITES REPS. THAT COMMENT SUGGESTS THAT THIS FORUM IS NOTHING BUT NOISE. IM SORRY, BUT YOU WRONG, THE PEOPLE HERE ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINION, RIGHT OR WRONG. CALL IT NOISE ON SOME OTHER FORUM, BUT NOT HERE!

SeabeeRon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SeabeeRon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Hopefully this will clear up the Made in
> China
> > > nonsense!
>
> rustic charm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why is this non-sense? - They have cleared up
> why
> > they use Chinese parts -
> >
> > The nonsense I see is that forum 'locks' &
> > 'unlocks' threads at will/when it suits - Do
> the
> > Chinese moderate that site as well?
>
> The "nonsense" was that some claimed the machine
> was made in China. Most thinking people realize
> everything you buy are going to have components
> from China or elsewhere around the globe.

No one claimed the machine was made in China. There were questions with question marks in regards to that.

I certainly understand the frustration from the customers who purchased the MX Sport, and the MX Sport debacle is certainly ruffling a lot of feathers.

I hope White's does the right thing and sorts out all the issues with a remedy that's easy for their loyal customer base to pursue. Hopefully then we can get back to what we really enjoy, and that's detecting, not inflammatory spectacles of discussions.

I guess broken coil ears weren't such a big issue after all

If certain people want to calm down, and read the Title of this Topic "MX-Sport made in China ??" meaning that is a Question NOT a fact, And the fact is Someone had made in China stickers stuck on their machine Namely on the Battery Box, They have to be there for legal reasons, But the shock part is the amount of parts that are made in China when we compare Whites of Old where most of the parts are made in House,

I don't like it, But everyone is turning in ol Farts and want lighter machines, Even the most revered of Hunters are wanting lighter machines and so if these lighter weight machines are what people want then I guess we have to except these changes, To me this seems crazy in one respect because they can swing a 7.32 LB GPZ All Day but a 4 LB Whites is just too much to bare. Personally I bought my Whites machines because of their solid Build Quality,

Want and Need are two very different things and one destroys the other in some cases, The words " Be Careful what you wish For " come to mind and they have been proven to be true in this case, Because it has hurt us and Whites and the Hobby it's self,

John.

There are folks who know the actual realities of designing and manufacturing metal detectors in the US. One of them who most of you have probably heard of is Dave Johnson, designer of a large percentage of the most successful US metal detector designs of the last few decades - currently Chief Engineer (I think that's the right title) at First Texas Products (Bounty Hunter, Fisher, Teknetics). Here's something he posted on this subject over at Findmall. Posted here with his permission.

Far be it from me to defend the MXSport specifically, but White's is a worthy competitor and I will stick up for them on the "China superstition".

Electronic components are made all over the world. For example, Texas Instruments is a big USA semiconductor manufacturer. You buy a tube of TI integrated circuits and what's it say on the Country of Origin paperwork? "Made in one of the following countries: Philippines, Malaysia, India, China, Taiwan, Indonesia, .etc...". The US military can't build a jet without half the stuff in the avionics coming from overseas. That's how it really is. They fly the parts in on India Air force MIG-21's with vacuum tube avionics (just kidding on that part!).

There is no such thing as a metal detector made in the USA from only USA-sourced parts unless you build yourself a stone age BFO from source certified components. And the raw materials used to make those source certified components? Oil from Saudi, rare earths from China, chemical feedstocks from India, wood from Indonesia .... we live in a globalized economy, like it or not. At least there are are still several USA manufacturers of metal detectors, and we/they even sell overseas. Some of us even to China. Ever try to buy a television, radio, or cell phone made in the USA? If you're not looking for a niche market specialty item you're intending to pay a big premium for, you're out of luck. (I actually own a very good AM-FM radio made in the USA (of mostly foreign-made electronic components of course) but it's a brand the average person has never heard of and it cost me nearly $200.)[/quote]

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I can see where folks can be confused.

White's does pride itself with made in the USA.

Now they have admitted,,,this not 100% true.

So does this being partially made in the USA,,,does this solely in itself mean they make bad detectors???

Certainly not,,,a manufacturer could make a bad detector using components from any country.

2 different issue here,,,problematic detector,,,and where some of the components come from.

I wished we in the USA could indeed make things here,,,100%,,,but it seems we have priced ourselves or of the market with our cost of living vs other countries.

Bottom line--- some folks learned something here in this thread.

And we are all here together,,,no need to attack one another.

Sometimes too,,it is bothersome,,,it seems you really get no answers on issues unless you ask a question.

And some questions no matter how they are asked or phrased,,,set folks off.

Cheers everyone.

Myself and a few others are having no problems with our MX Sport. ( YET )

Frank in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Myself and a few others are having no problems
> with our MX Sport. ( YET )


Count me in as one of the issue free MX Sport owners... Use it on land and in the water...

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I certainly understand the frustration from the
> customers who purchased the MX Sport, and the MX
> Sport debacle is certainly ruffling a lot of
> feathers.
>
> I hope White's does the right thing and sorts out
> all the issues with a remedy that's easy for their
> loyal customer base to pursue. Hopefully then we
> can get back to what we really enjoy, and that's
> detecting, not inflammatory spectacles of
> discussions.
>
> I guess broken coil ears weren't such a big issue
> after all
As I understand it--
As highlighted I think they are catering to their loyal customer base and trying to avoid those that are not. Frustration is likely when those that are not aware of the issues go out and hunt and find out that they can't because there is no such thing as and MX Sport that is not defective.
If they did not send in a warranty card they will not,according to White's, be told about the faceplate issues by White's. The firmware issues are now being termed as preference/ issues but no indication from White's that they will alert any or all consumers individually to that issue but will address it if someone notices a problem.

I think it is fair under the circumstances to be alert and see if White's considers the firmware issue a preference and which machines they consider it to be a preference on, if they use the term " preference " in the future.

We should be able to hunt at will and not worry about machine issues and we can try to help all others do that.


Edited to remove the word " problem " between the / and word " issues " as highlighted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2016 10:49PM by Kemper94.

Frank in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Myself and a few others are having no problems
> with our MX Sport. ( YET )

Frank I am pleased for you, Where these things come to light is when some of us folks that are in some cases to well versed Know how certain features should respond but when we are presented with something that does not do as claimed then we are less pleased to say the least,

Also When folks try play up a machine by making a Detecting Icon look bad, That is never a good move and a sure way to start a war, And when a person has invest over 5000 hours Testing and using such a machine and people try to discredit it to promote their latest offering then that does not sit well,

I wish you well and good luck,

John

The moderator on the White's thread just took it further off-topic with the following--

deolslyfox
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I have been with Whites products for over 50 years in some role or another - user, repair tech, dealer, field tester and Region Rep. During these 5+ decades I have NEVER seen Whites be anything but honest and up-front.

It is wonderful when a new product comes out "perfect the first time". Doesn't happen every time. In my book, the mark of integrity is whether the manufacturer stands behind that product, "warts and all", and makes it right for the customer. Whites has always done that and continues to do that.

I stand by Whites 110%, just as they have stood by me and the thousands of Whites users that I have met, hunted with, worked with, trained, etc over the years.

Notice the part I highlighted. I doubt you will hear or see them use the term " all customers " in regards to addressing the issues with this machine. They have not indicated that they will try to reach all customers.
Read the smoke signals.

Kemper94 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Their 40 dollar digger is made in Taiwan and that
> would be easy to make in the U. S. It's not a
> matter of where something can be made but rather a
> matter of where it is profitable to be made.


kempy!..this is generally true,BUT NOT always as "some"
companies,DO in fact,"bite the bullet" and make things here,
AND ACCEPT a "lower" profit margin.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Kemper94 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gravityrules Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lytle78 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > 1. electronic component manufacturing moved to
> > the far east decades ago.
> >
> > Absolutely, at the electronic component level
> > there have been very few 'All American'
> electronic
> > devices, including metal detectors, in decades.
> >
> >
> > 2. Not only that, but nobody builds stuff under
> > one roof anymore.
> >
> > Very true, 'vertical integration' is usually
> not
> > pursued unless there is a quality or cost
> reason
> > to do so. Some sub-assemblies and tasks are
> > contracted out domestically and in some cases
> > purchased from overseas. Manufacturers will
> focus
> > their limited resources on the 'core
> competencies'
> > associated with their product or in areas that
> are
> > proprietary to this product. For example, a
> > detector manufacturer will design and build
> their
> > own coils but they may contract printed circuit
> > board (PC layout and fabrication. In my own
> > engineering experience, high quality bare PCBs
> > could be produced in Taiwan for 40% of the cost
> of
> > PCBs produced domestically.
> >
> > 3. Design, develop, assemble, test. This is
> > pretty much the maximum of what western
> > electronics manufacturers do in the "home
> > country".
> >
> > Do we really expect a relatively small company
> to
> > own their own foundry for making components to
> > their own design specs, have a full machine
> shop
> > for metal fabrication, injection molding
> equipment
> > for plastic cases, own and maintain pick and
> place
> > lines for printed circuit board assembly ?
> >
> >
> > 4. Whites, Garrett, First Texas are all
> entitled
> > to a "Made in the USA" sticker if they meet
> > certain criteria about US content.
> >
> > From the videos I have seen and plant tours that
> I
> > have taken, White's is the most 'vertically
> > integrated' of the 3 major American
> > manufacturers.
> >
> >
> > 5. It's better than totally outsourcing the
> whole
> > lot and becoming only a marketer (and trademark
> > owner) for items designed, manufactured and
> tested
> > abroad.
> >
> > Absolutely, I am happy there are still American
> > metal detector manufacturers.
> > Finding a battery holder, speaker or some other
> > component with a 'made in China' sticker
> doesn't
> > change the fact that these detectors are more
> > 'American' than 99% of the consumer electronics
> on
> > the market.
> >
> > I understand the OP's frustration with the tone
> of
> > this thread. This is one area where the
> criticism
> > of White's is not justified.
>
>
> What are your thoughts on White's 40 dollar Taiwan
> digger ?


it's a "money maker"..just "pretend" you are digging "chinese"
dirt when digging!..ehe! he! he! he!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are folks who know the actual realities of
> designing and manufacturing metal detectors in the
> US. One of them who most of you have probably
> heard of is Dave Johnson, designer of a large
> percentage of the most successful US metal
> detector designs of the last few decades -
> currently Chief Engineer (I think that's the right
> title) at First Texas Products (Bounty Hunter,
> Fisher, Teknetics). Here's something he posted on
> this subject over at Findmall. Posted here with
> his permission.
>
> Far be it from me to defend the MXSport
> specifically, but White's is a worthy competitor
> and I will stick up for them on the "China
> superstition".
>
> Electronic components are made all over the world.
> For example, Texas Instruments is a big USA
> semiconductor manufacturer. You buy a tube of TI
> integrated circuits and what's it say on the
> Country of Origin paperwork? "Made in one of the
> following countries: Philippines, Malaysia,
> India, China, Taiwan, Indonesia, .etc...". The
> US military can't build a jet without half the
> stuff in the avionics coming from overseas.
> That's how it really is. They fly the parts in
> on India Air force MIG-21's with vacuum tube
> avionics (just kidding on that part!).
>
> There is no such thing as a metal detector made in
> the USA from only USA-sourced parts unless you
> build yourself a stone age BFO from source
> certified components. And the raw materials used
> to make those source certified components? Oil
> from Saudi, rare earths from China, chemical
> feedstocks from India, wood from Indonesia ....
> we live in a globalized economy, like it or not.
> At least there are are still several USA
> manufacturers of metal detectors, and we/they even
> sell overseas. Some of us even to China. Ever
> try to buy a television, radio, or cell phone made
> in the USA? If you're not looking for a niche
> market specialty item you're intending to pay a
> big premium for, you're out of luck. (I actually
> own a very good AM-FM radio made in the USA (of
> mostly foreign-made electronic components of
> course) but it's a brand the average person has
> never heard of and it cost me nearly $200.)

So after all that of what most of us knew anyway it appears China are NOT as big and as bad as you had been banging on about for as long as I can remember - If Chinese manufacturing was indeed bad, these US corporations would not be using them now would they?

This slamming the Chinese when it suits an agenda is getting awfully tiring -

Garrett obviously get their products Made in China according to one of their ex employees

First Texas get a couple of their biggest selling units made there as well as components etc for their manufacturing in the USA

& now

White's admit that their arm straps are Made in China - Maybe the label just walked off the strap and stuck itself to the battery box

Personally I don't care where these guys get their products made as long as it is made to their high standards. Most of the REAL WORLD understand that you have to use Chinese manufacturing to some degree otherwise you cannot keep up with your opposition/demand and this is exactly what Minelab told THEIR customers regarding manufacturing in Malaysia - Just be upfront & stop waving the 'Made in USA' banner when its not entirely true. That in itself in very deceiving and condescending to their loyal customers -

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

RC

As usual, you mix up my one-man crusade against chinese pirate detectors - illegal copies of US models - with two other things.

The first thing you mix it up with is the use of chinese (and other far east) components in making items which can legally(see my previous post) be labelled as made in the USA. All electronics manufacturers (not jist metal detector makers) do this.

The second thing you mix up with this is your allegations that US manufacturers fradulently label detectors made in China as made in the USA. Again, I invite you to bring a complaint with the US Federal Trade,Commission if you have some facts to back your accusations up.

Since,you live in New Zeland (I think), please,fill is in on the situation with New Zeland electronics manufacturers. If I'm wrong about where you live, please disregard this last request.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

As usual, it is not me mixed up - I have known for quite some time now that US manufacturers have been using the Chinese -

Now unless you know what rights were given or not given by the US corporations to the Chinese manufacturers you are clearly assuming the legalities of those so-called copies to be illegal - Put up the proof - Like I have already pointed out to you on numerous occasions, the manufacturer of the GF2 also make the Vikings specifically for a Ukraine company who are also the Distributors of First Texas Products - If the manufacturer is breaking the law why then allow one of you distributors the right to sell the obvious copy you speak of?

Yes First Texas know about this however in your own little real world that you live in, you automatically assume that they are counterfeits - Well then, prove it? It appears they are being allowed to be sold in conjunction with the very same distributors of the Teknetics T2 -

Again you continue to be condescending in your posts and accuse others of being confused - From the man who banged on about substandard Chinese products to now telling how it is in the real world - Talk about flip flops - What will it be next week? - Back to China stealing from US manufacturers again?

As for trying to sink the boot into NZ - Grow up - We do not need to manufacture here as the USA make plenty of decent units to cater for those of us around the world - Its just a shame we cannot buy from the USA direct - That then leaves the doors open for other manufacturers who do sell worldwide ........

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

We went through all this last October.

Sorry you find my posts so offensive, thankfully it seems that some folks don't.

Ran into the NZ cycling team on their way to Rio at the Lisbon airport day before yesterday. Nice looking bunch - wished them luck.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2016 03:25PM by lytle78.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We went through all this last October.
>
> Sorry you find my posts so offensive, thankfully
> it seems that some folks don't.
>
> Ran into the NZ cycling team on their way to Rio
> at the Lisbon airport day before yesterday. Nice
> looking bunch - wished them luck.


I heard that a company was going to be selling bicycles with no seat or handle bars to detectorists that may have lost their azz and don't know which way to turn.

Kemper94 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lytle78 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We went through all this last October.
> >
> > Sorry you find my posts so offensive,
> thankfully
> > it seems that some folks don't.
> >
> > Ran into the NZ cycling team on their way to
> Rio
> > at the Lisbon airport day before yesterday.
> Nice
> > looking bunch - wished them luck.
>
>
> I heard that a company was going to be selling
> bicycles with no seat or handle bars to
> detectorists that may have lost their azz and
> don't know which way to turn.


Kemper-----You FINALLY come up with a good one!-----The wife & I both got a good laugh out of it.---There may be hope for you yet!