Some thoughts (and questions) on the AT Pro

I still think it would be really great if there was a way to determine exactly what the issue was/is on the AT PRO coils (if in fact the issue WAS the coils & it appears to be).---A way to check out both the earlier AND newest out coils (other than just by testing them--so the real underlying problem could be determined).-------Questions--(bear with me). grin--------(1) Could the problem be in the coil cable itself, connectors (pins), or the cable entrance to the coil?------(2) Won't there be a lot of earlier AT PROs out there that have been purchased (with coil issues) that never get sent back to Garrett? (these detectors/coils perhaps later getting traded in or sold)---Seeing as how Garrett hasn't had a re-call on them or even admitted there was a problem?----------Del

It would be interesting for the AT-Pro curious, but I wouldn't keep my fingers crossed. Garrett has too much to lose... monetarily.

There are more inexperienced detectorists out there than you can ever imagine ..... I'm not talking about only folks who just got started ....I'm talking about people who will hear someone say something , and never experiment themselves to see if what was said is true ......Somewhat of a "Blind Faith " ....... They have faith, or they put trust in certain people on forums , or companies that they have had good luck with , or anybody that they just plain trust to give them the correct info ...... They get complacent , and rely on others to tell them what they need to know without checking it out for themselves ...... Add hype to that situation , and you have people buying up whatever new toy comes onto the block ..... Then they find that the machine does not run like other machines that they have , and it makes a lot more noises than should happen , and they are not comfortable with the machine .....The saving grace is that they are finding more targets with this machine than they ever did with previous machines !!...... They figure , " hey , why should I complain ? " ......" I'm finding more targets than I EVER did " .....and to add insult to injury , they are told by the company , and others that they trust out in the field and on forums " This is NORMAL , and it's the way the machine runs .....It's extremely sensitive , that's why you're hitting those DEEP targets" ....." Plenty of other machines do this " ........ These inexperienced folks say to themselves " hey, they surely know more than I do about how to make a detector , and these other guys are saying that it's the way it's suppose to run" ...." Maybe it's just ME that has to get use to the machine " ........As mentioned earlier....These folks are finding great targets , so they go on with their machine and don't give it another thought .......

For this reason, many folks willl keep their machine and run it the way it is , because they don't know any better , or they have been insecure enough to not believe in thier own thoughts on said machine ..... Then they have a herd of other folks , who reinforce the idea that this is normal , and next thing you know , you have a LARGE herd of folks believing that they are now part of a company, or part of a click, or an entity bigger than themselves , and they are OK, and better yet ...THEY ARE RIGHT !!!..... " WOW !!! I BELONG !!!."..... " I'm a part of a huge group that KNOWS what they are talking about !!! " .......

Companies that remain silent , do this to admit NOTHING ....They let the people on the forums take care of it ......If the herd does not take care of it , they fix the problem in the background , and they fix the few machines for the people who KNOW there is a problem , and life goes on ..... It's like the line " I'll tell you whatever you want to hear " .......and " I'll sell you whatever it is that you want to buy " ......... How many people will send back their food at a Diner because it's cold ? ......Nothing wrong with the food , it's just cold , right ? ......How many people just say " I havent' got time for this , I'll just eat it ? ......

Hypathetical .......If you were a company , and you made a product that had a costly part that was faulty , and you have already spent a TON of money bringing this product to fruition , and you could have 75% of the people believing that this part is working fine , and doing what it is suppose to do , would you recall the machine, and spend a bunch more money to make good your product ? ........ or would you just fix the problem behind the scenes on the next batch of products you make , and go on about your business ? .......

Quick story .....I was going down the road in my car and my buddy was with me and we started tallking music ....and I got pulled over .....I did not know how fast I was going , but I was moving along with the traffic ..... "License and registration please" ..... he said ......And went back to his car .....I asked my friend how fast I was going and he didn't know as we were into this conversation ......The cop came back to me and asked " Do you know how fast you were going " .......EVERYBODY LIES about this !!!.....I thru him a curve ball and said " Sorry officer , I have no idea how fast I was going ....I was involved in a deep conversaton with my friend here, and was really not paying attention " He looked at me in amazement and said " You mean to tell me that you're not going to tell me that you were doing the speed limit ? " .....I told him that I did NOT know how fast I was going .....He said , " You have a clean license , and I'm gonna let you go with a warning " ....." You were going 82 mph in a 55 mph zone !! " ....... I was startled when he told me that ......I asked " ARE YOU SURE" ......He said " YES I"M SURE " .....I told him I was moving along with the other cars that were going just as fast as I was .....He replied ....." Yes , but you were the one I stopped " ........ Think about that .... You can BS as many people as you want , but there wiill always be somebody just a little bit smarter than you think to catch you in it !!......Jim

Seems I recall that Tek & Fisher had troubles with the 1st generation coils on the F-75 & T-2. didn't they take care of the problem with no fan fare? Look at the just released Gold Bugs and the "Silver" problems that they had, I think that was handled well and it also created a very sought after detector, the version 29 GBSE. I hold Garrett no higher than the cheap box store detectors as far as that goes. I still think that the other manufactures have left Garrett in the dust as far as inovation and service. The AT Pro has gained the position of a new "Cult" detector and that is all......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2011 12:43PM by morelicdetector.

Careful Synthnut. I got booted off Finds in large part to a candid posting written here.

The Finds Mods troll here all the time...

"It's like the line " I'll tell you whatever you want to hear " .......and " I'll sell you whatever it is that you want to buy " ......... How many people will send back their food at a Diner because it's cold ? ......Nothing wrong with the food , it's just cold , right ? ......How many people just say " I havent' got time for this , I'll just eat it ? ...... "

Jim, you're spot on. One I like the best is........." Don't worry about it, you'll get used to it"

go rebels,
I am speaking about companies in general .....Did I mention the AT Pro ? ..... Generally speaking , many companies have the same foot .....and if the shoe fits, they should just wear it !!...... I am not pointing any fingers at any particular company here ..... There's plenty of blame to go around ...... If someone from these companies can prove me wrong , let them sppeak up !!.... ..... People already know the truth about many different companies ..... I work hard for my money, and I try to do my homework BEFORE I buy a product ..... Without having the product in my hand to try out in a " Try before you buy" scenario , it's hard to know what the product will or won't do ..... I'm sure that there are quite a few macines out there that if I tried them before I bought them , that I would NEVER ever think of buying them .... Back in the day , I use to look at price first !!.....NOW I look to see if the company is reputable , and will fix my product if it does not perform as indicated ......and I deal with a retailers who are straight with me too ..... Price doesn't even matter anymore ....Either it works or it doesn't ......

As far as getting kicked off of ANY forum .....If someone doesn't like what I have to say , and they own a forum, or the owners or sponsers don't like what I have to say , they can kick me off .....They own the forum ..... Whether you know it or not , this is how life works ..... You are going to run into MANY different people who don't like what you have to say .....Does that mean you just follow the flock , and become one of them for fear of being rejected or ejected ? ...... Is it right to lie to someone because the truth will hurt them ? ..... I have tried to live my life and be STRAIGHT to the best of my ability .....I'm no angel , but I'm a STRAIGHT forwarnd person ..... You might not like what I have to say, but when I say it , you can take it to the bank ... My friends know what I am like , and there are plenty of times that they cringe when I say something to someone who tries to pull the wool over my eyes .... but that's just me ..... The important thing is not worrying about geting kicked off or out of ANYTHING .....The important thing is that you speak the truth when you speak , and don't be afraid of telling the truth , and don't be afraid of standing alone , because in most cases , if you are saying something that is unpopular. you will stand alone !!!..... A few will have the balls to stand by you , and others will just stand by and watch .....

Think about this ......If nobody mentions the problems of a product , it would NEVER get fixed ...... Everyone in ths world was busy trying to make a living and surviving , and nobody was minding what was going on behind the scenes in this country, and the few who did , who said something about it , were silenced ......Where are we today ? ......

"Untied we stand , divided we fall "..............These words have NEVER meant more to me in my life !!......

I would rather hurt you with honesty............than mislead you with a lie.

If i remember right some complained about the SE when it first came out. That alleged coil problem was fixed soon after. Was it just some that wasnt used to the chatter? Even good hunters sometimes have issues with new machines... they may or may not be true. Why... because they dont use my basic rule "never sell a machine until its paid for its self". At that point you know the machine and it PROBLEMS. Some of those good hunter just swap machines way to often. The greater fix to the SE was the new Pro coil and people stopped complaining about the standard coil. Are they still out there? What do you think?

Dew

I am sending mine back in to Garrett. Before I packed it up I took off both rods and just attatched the coil cable directly to the detector and it still falsed when I moved the coil around. I wonder if it is picking up the coil cable somehow. I shook the cable near the housing but it did not flase. It was only when I moved the coil around. Wierd.

If I was to buy an AT Pro I would buy it from a dealer on line that I could trust. I would tell him or her to put it together and make sure it doesn't false while you shake it. Maybe the dealers should start sending them back to Garrett. The last thing in the world I would do right now is buy a used one on line. You lose all your consumer protection that way. And THANKS to a few wise and stubborn men on this forum we DO know that there are good and bad AT Pros out there. I am shocked that Garrett has remained silent on the issue. I expected more. Good thing they don't make surgical instruments. They would be getting their pants handed to them in class action.

i readily agree with this analogy!..isn't it ironic how many companies seem to adopt the
attitude that to "lie and deny" is accepted by societies in general,and is deemed "politically
correct" behavior!..amazing!....perhaps a testament to our society?....just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Yes, "silence is golden" (normally) --but-------It seems to me that if Garrett would just make a public statement on this issue it would actually help sales. (rather than just "fixing" the problem as the detectors/coils trickle in).----If they would make a statement of what to look for/test to existing AT PRO owners & inform them to send them in if they didn't "pass the test", that would be a BIG benefit to both Garrett AND customers.-----As has been mentioned several times, apparently not all coils have been "bad" and those wouldn't need to be sent in.----A re-call (of sorts) of the bad coils, at least that would clear up the bad ones that's out there.----It also seems to me that if something like this isn't done---those bad coils are going to come back to haunt both Garrett AND purchasers for a LONG TIME to come (the first ones out).-----Bottom line--To Garretts credit, they have apparently identified & rectified the problem on the ones that are now coming out----but what about the earlier (bad) ones that are out there?-----What's the solution?----As it stands right now, If you think you have a bad coil, send the detector & coil in to Garrett & they will make it right.---If you don't do that, well, I guess you just "enjoy" your noisy machine. grin------It isn't the end of the world--but it most assuredly has got many potential buyers (myself included) taking a "wait & see" stance.----Other manufactures have had "issue"(s) with newly released units also--the MAIN thing is that ANY manufacturer identify & correct those problems as quickly as possible.----------Del

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i readily agree with this analogy!..isn't it
> ironic how many companies seem to adopt the
> attitude that to "lie and deny" is accepted by
> societies in general,and is deemed "politically
> correct" behavior!..amazing!....perhaps a
> testament to our society?....just sayin!
>
> (h.h.!)
> j.t.

Yep, testament.
American business is mainly ran by morons that won't take
responsibility for anything.
Long ago corps decided to hire college grads instead of
allowing folk to move up the ladder...there is no more of that.
Educated idiots, most of them...they made a 2 tier society
within the place of work--the "office" and work floor.
Damn idiots will layoff good workers while keeping
lazy engineers and other lazy office workers.
This is a big problem within corporate America
no wonder most jobs are going overseas.

I guess I'll just go kill myself now...............I didn't know I was so worthless

Damm! I've got a Masters degree in Mechanical Engineering from Ohio State... I must be a blithering idiot!

Laf---You guys crack me up!----Don't give up---there's still hope for all of us (I think)! ha ha

Haha.
Don't worry, there is nothing wrong with the direction this Country is taking
and busniess, the economy looks rosey for the future.
Not to mention CEOs always look out for their workers.
Engineers never cut corners and all of them know what they are doing.
A college education always makes one superior to those that don't have it.
How about that for a warm fuzzy feeling?
But if the shoe fits.......

Back to the Garrett coil problem.
There have been other brands with coil problems
and I never remember that any of them came out publically
and admitted it.
So there is little point to chastise Garrett on this point while
overlooking the others.
The AT-Pro should be compared to brands/models in its price
range for performance and such.
And no, I don't use Garretts and I am not brand loyal.
And if the At-Pro happens to have better performance than
another given detector, it wouldn't be offensive to me,

The frustrating part of it has to do with the capabilities of the detector. This detector is or could be a game changer when it comes to bang for the buck. I hear people have been paying as little as 480.00 for this detector. And this detector gets mentioned in the same discussions with top of the line detectors. As the owner of two Sovereigns I just watched the price of a new GT go up 200.00. This AT Pro might just be the consumers best friend. I have been around all the forums to get the names of quite a few good dealers. In fact there are a couple on here. If I was to ask one of those dealers to make sure my unit performed before they ship it I think I would get a no problem from most. But that squeaky clean feeling I had about Garrett and Charles in particular has a little dirt on it now. Right or wrong that is the way I feel. We wouldn't take this from the Pharmaceutical, Auto or just about any other industry. I hope the voice of a few trying to walk a line of decency and respect is heard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 11:21PM by goodmore.

Goodmore,
Talking about decentcy , how about that $200 price hike on the Sovereign , and the coming $100 price hike on the Excal ? ..... Worst customer service ever .....Long repair times, to the point where folks missed and entire season of hunting ......and to add insult to injury , Minelab says "I'm sorry" by hiking up the prices of their oldest technology machines ? ...... PALEASE !!
I'd buy 2 AT Pro's before I would EVER pay $1,000 for a Sovereign !!...... The greed is overwhelming to me !!.......

My guess is that Garrett had a strategy to have folks pre order the AT Pro .....Many people totally HYPED this machine without even running it .....Many people pre ordered this machine without even seeing it ......Many bought them for Christmas presents !!...... I'm sure that Garrett had their hands full as they did NOT expect this machine to take off the way it did .....They had to scramble to get these things built ..... Perhaps they figured that they better sell them and push them out the door , and deal with fixing them later ..... ????......or maybe they thought that folks would overlook the falsing since the machine STILL produced some good targets even with the falsing ......????...... Time is money , and timing is EVERYTHING !!...... There was a LOT of money spent to bring the AT Pro to fruition ...... How else are you going to sell a metal detector in the middle of Winter ? ....... Take the money while you can , and worry about whatever you need to worry about later !!...... When all is said and done, there will be so many peoplle with some of the bsst finds they have ever witnessed .....It will STILL be a HUGE seller and all this will be water under the bridge .....Jim

Tom,
I have heard this saying from you in the past ......I like it a lot !!......It's embedded in my head !!......Thanks for sharing !!....Jim

To all you college grads ,
I applaud you for furthering your education , and it saddens me that while there has been a push for follks to become more educated , that they pay a LOT of $$$ for this education , only to stand in the same un employment line with everyone else !!......

Terra,
Please don't kill yourself ......Slamming your head into the wall a couple of times will suffice !!........( You know I'm kidding ) .....Don't feel bad .....We're all in this together !!.....Jim

Its only requirement......it has to be harder than my head.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAAA.....You crack me up !!.....Jim

To synthnut,
I understand the part about your bad coil and agree with you about ML.
What I would like to know and think others as well is what do you think about the
performance of your AT-Pro now?
Does it compare well with your other detectors?
Have you had a chance to use it in dirt, seems like I read where you do beach hunting?

The Chinese already beat us badly when it comes to cost. What happens when they start beating us with quality and service? Remember a little company called Toyota, you know that junk from Japan!

Steve ,
The jury is still out until the snow melts here in NY as far as how this machine handles the dirt .....If my assumption is correct , the one thing that I really like about this machine is the iron discrimintation .....It does REALLY WELL in comparison to other machines I have had ..... My favorite land machine so far that nothing has been able to trump is the E Trac ....It has much better Iron Discrimination than the Sovereign , goes just as deep, and has " see thru " functions that make it do very well in trashy area's .....Put something like a SunRay S-5 on an E Trac and you're hunting surgically thru the trash ......The seperation and target I D is also great on the E Trac ..... If the AT Pro does as well in the dirt , as it does in the dry sand , It's well worth the price of admission .... Will it be as good as an E Trac ? ....Can't say right now ......I'm guessing that it will be pretty good with proper ID up to about 7 inches or maybe 8 .....It will still hit targets deeper , but you won't know what they are till you dig them ..... I can properly ID targets over 8 inches deep with my E Trac depending on conditions ..... I bought the AT Pro for a recent drop dry sand beach machine ....Something that would be light, fast , and would ID well for such drops that go maybe 6 inches or so in the sand after one or two days ....One thing with the Sovereign that I had was the fact that Copper Pennies would come in at the same as Quarters and other targets ....I dug more pennies with that machine than ANY machine on the beach ....It's quicker to dig in sand than in dirt , but you're still wasting time when you have to FLY DOWN THE BEACH here in NY or you're gonna loose targets to the other guys looking for the same thing you are !!..... You're either first and fast , or lazy and last !!..... The good finds here in the NY Parks are basically old Silver .....Barber era and earlier ....These coins are DEEP !!..... In most cases you are going at least 6 inches down minimum for Mercury dimes ....and it just get's deeper from there ......If the AT Pro is not comfortable in the Park at 8 inches or deeper , it will stay home and wait for the beach hunt ...... I'm really eager to see what it can do ..... I'm really pleasantly surprised with the performance of it , especially for the price ..... I was also pleasantly surprised with the customer service at Garrett .....Bradley Keel handled my situation in a proffesional manor .....I had ordered my AT Pro BEFORE all the reports of the falsing came out .....While my machine was coming to me , the reports just started to surface on the forums ..... I said in one of my threads ( they wiped them out on that forum ) that if my macine falsed like that , I would be returning it .....This was a while ago .....I did what I said I would do , and had to go deeper tnto the situation than I would have liked , but just as Tom said , it was really in the best interest of any company to fix whatever problems exist early if they want to continue to keep their name ....... It was a tough beginning , but the remedy came about , which may not have been the case ..... All is well that ends well !!.... All in all , I don't think that for the actual price you pay , or even a couple of hundred more, that there is another machine on the market that can beat the AT Pro as an all around machine now that the falsing issue is fixed ..... A machine at this price , and ease of use , lends itself to openning the doors to a LOT of new detectorists whch can only be better for the Hobbie !!.... As much as you want to be the first to finds, it's still nice to hang out with guys who share the same passion for the outdoors , and you STILL get to meet up with some really nice folks while you're out there ..... Everytime I have been with a few guys detecting , we ALWAYS laugh and joke around and it just makes for a good time all around ....Jim

Thanks for the honest opinion.
I have been watching the progress of the AT-Pro from the beginning
and after the coil problem was found, I decided it would be best to wait.
There are/were a couple of FT detectors I was looking at also but it is
hard to gage info about them.
One of them is the Gold Bug/G2, it appears to do really well in trash
but I worry it doesn't have the juice to go deep.
With the rumors of a multi from FT, it sort of makes me want to
wait.
Then again Garrett may decide to come out with a model with more
features in the AT-Pro mold, who knows.
I plan on making a decision once the small coils come out for the
Garrett, right now I am leaning toward the AT-Pro.

indeed!."nepotism" IS alive and well in corporate america!
nothing's changed!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

turtleman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Chinese already beat us badly when it comes to
> cost. What happens when they start beating us with
> quality and service? Remember a little company
> called Toyota, you know that junk from Japan!


excellent point!..well taken,and SCARY s**t!
to prove your point!..as the saying goes, "the public has a short memory!"
most don't remember when toyota sent us a "boat" load of corollas back in '72
the reason is,because that "first" boat load was pure "crap"..so what did the japanese do?
they learned a lesson,and the "NEXT" LOAD OF COROLLAS cemented their reputation
as one of the "most" reliable,and durable cars on the planet!..it IS possible for the chinese to accomplish the very same thing!
just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

OK, Steve(MS) alluded to it, there's a thread about it now, and did maybe even Mr. D drop a teeny tiny hint -- -- about a possible future multi-frequency machine from Fisher/FT? Even if this is just wishful thinking, can someone help me out here...

I know NOTHING about multi-frequency machines. Is the AT-Pro such a machine? Can someone tell me what the advantages are? Do they use multi-frequencies all at once, or do you have to change a "setting" or a coil or something to access the different frequecies? As far as I could surmise, just thinking logically based on my limited understanding, I would guess that if multiple frequencies are used all at once, that would obviously mean improved ability to "hit hard" on ALL conductor types; if the frequency in use is user-selected, by a switch or a coil change or whatever, then I guess you would choose the best frequency for what you were hunting (i.e. higher or lower conductors?) What other advantages does a multi-frequency unit have? Have I heard hints that they ID better from a VDI/TID perspective, particularly at depth? What other advantages and disadvantages are there to a multi-frequency machine? Please forgive my ignorance, but first of all, I'm sure you've become used to it by now, and secondly, the longer I hang here, the more my ignorance is eroded, so that's the GOOD news... !!

Steve

So far it is only a rumor.
No, the AT Pro is single frq.
To date here are the multis.
CZs, Sovereigns, Explorer, Etrac, Safari, Quattro, Excalibur, Whites beach hunter(I forget its name), Whites DFX, Whites V3 and Fisher has a water detector that is multi, also a CZ.
Whites and Fishers are dual frq except for the V3 which can be set to 3 frqs or 1.

As far as + and - of multis, it is debateable on the advantages.
Multis do better in salt water generally speaking.
Multis tend to do better when more minerals are present in ground.