F75 SE - VS - Garrett AT Pro

Almost went for the At pro but decided to get the F75 SE. Any thoughts on comparison as all I will be doing is COIN hunting. already have a cz21 for the water. Really thought seriously about the at pro though.. Sure both are great machines..

Here is the post just copy and paste.


[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

Hard to do any comparison.......as this supposed 'fix' is too new on the markets.

The LTD is a great machine very deep use one tone for most hunting or 2F and the boost mode get a small coil for tight areas. And don't forget the G2

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

and what ever the LTD hear's the Pro hear's and he is running the LTD in boost 2 tone sens around 80....At-Pro 35 iron disc pro mode sens wide open....ground reads about 3 bars 75-80..

He has had the LTD since release...I have had the At-pro a week...it digs more out of the hard hit area's especially in the iron than his LTD...

Now this is just us hunting and in mineralized ground....So don't take it for gospel and think one will out do the other by wide margin's because it wont...

here's what I have noticed....in mineral dirt the LTD like's to call deep good target's over 8 inch's iron the At like's to call deep target's good even some iron till a little dirt is removed...The at is very conservative when using the iron tone....it likes to report deep target's with the high 3 rd tone alot...even though the I.d. meter is reading in the mid tone...When you get a flutey warbling mid to high fuzzy sound it is a deep good target and the Ltd like's to call this target iron.....

The At-Pro is a great bad ground machine...

in good ground the At-pro like's to false hit iron better ....I believe the concentrics will overcome this in good dirt...it not a real problem just something to keep in mind an adapt your technique ..

I will say this the At-Pro will lite up a site you thought was dead if you learn the Audio... the audio is second to non...remind's me alot of an explorer the way it blends target's

I dug some targets today...that sort of had the hit like it was a bigger piece of iron high toning in the middle with iron roll on the side but it was targets laying in just a plethora of nail's the LTD was just grunting .......Larger iron will roll very loud on the edges and the center false will be fainter type hit... good targets mixed in iron will fainter iron roll with a more rounder high hit in amongst the roll of iron audio...

Machine is a hunt by ear....machine....

People who dismiss the machine as a Garrett Toy machine need to keep an open mind...

never dismiss technology as a gimmick or copy ... this is a real machine.. that is real powerful and will take time to master...But will unmask and go deep with the best of them...

Just get one that is running properly if you try one...


Ground balance hot spot for deep silver is 72...That's right I said hot spot... the ground balance even in bad dirt can be manipulated without falsing to really lite up high conductor's Low conductor's stay hot anywhere on the Ground Balance..

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 02:48AM by Keith Southern.

Very informative and useful observations.

Keith ,
Are you saying that the AT Pro's tuning and frequency is such that the BEST G. B. number for deep Silver is 72 regardless of what the soil conditions are ? ........or are you saying in general that this is the best G.B. number you have found for YOUR soil conditions ? ......Thanks, Jim

at around 68-74 or so on the G.B.

Whats weird is you can run the G.B. around on the At and not get falsing...I can balance in at a grab at say 88 and run the G.B down to 70 manually and it works great and really gets deeeep..

Pinpoint is worthless like that because the G.B. is so far off it wont report the target in pinpoint from the ground signal tuning it out but the depth meter works all the time anyway so you can tell it's shallow or deep on the fly....

Do some airtest with a dime on your's and let me know where your's start's to gain some considerable depth ...

Keith

Keith ,
I'm finding pretty good air depth in the 70-75 GB range ......I'll check these numbers out when the snow melts in the Park were I find plenty of silver .....Thanks for sharing ....Jim

Keith we have a $600 machine equal to or better then a $1300 machine? I like that!

How is the AT Pro with noise (one big turn off for me on the F75 LTD at times is how noisy it can be, I know I am missing targets when it's so noisy).

Also one issue I see all the time on the F75 LTD is that it does not (at least in my dirt) do well on small silver coins (dime sized and smaller). Make it a quarter, and it will get them deep as I've personally dug a 11"+ deep SLQ with the F75 LTD. My Omega will out detect the F75 LTD on silver dimes. Unfortunately the majority of silver coins out here are silver dimes, so I know the F75 LTD is missing a LOT of them. The F75 LTD is a great relic hunter.

I've been a big Fisher/Teknetics supporter, but to be honest, I'm ready to try something else, as I do not need another relic hunter, I need a coin hunter On that note, the 15 kHz frequency of the AT Pro is a concern as that frequency is typically geared towards low conductors vs high conductors.

To try it, or not to try it, that is the question?

PS - being that the AT Pro is marketed as a waterproof machine (10-foot depth), I wonder how it does as a salt water beach hunter?

Quote
Cal_cobra
Unfortunately the majority of silver coins out here are silver dimes, so I know the F75 LTD is missing a LOT of them.

In my southern red clay, my LTD beat my Explorer II w/Pro coil hands down over my 8" silver dime, and I knew that Minelab well. Now if the Etrac has similar depth to the Explorers, which is what I have often read, and your Omega trumps the LTD, then....

Where did I read that long running head-to-head comparison titled: "Omega vs. Etrac"???

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith we have a $600 machine equal to or better
> then a $1300 machine? I like that!
>
> How is the AT Pro with noise (one big turn off for
> me on the F75 LTD at times is how noisy it can be,
> I know I am missing targets when it's so noisy).
>
I agree.
I believe that is what a lot of us would like to know
is just how good the AT-Pro is.
For less than half the price it is tempting.
Myself I don't know whether to spring for the AT
or see what new is coming out...
There are rumors about a new mult-frq.
Who knows maybe the sleeping giant
Whites will bring out something new if they
can overcome their conservative tendencies.
More than one brand to choose from, that's
good for the consumers.

lead you in a direction thinking it is the end all machine.....It is a great machine especially at the price point....I have challenged the LTD in a one on one hunt in an iron infested site both using stock large coil's....

Now with that being said....The At- has no sort of real All metal mode like the LTD...No ground mineral indicator's...No 99 point's of discrimination ability...(40 points then notching come's in)...Ergonomics better on the LTD...


At is in a awesome housing...scratch resistant face plate ( Are you listening Fisher?) ergonomic's well I had to extend my arm cuff back....the EMI is almost non existent ...

Again it's hunt by ear machine and till you are use to the audio it will be tricky in iron laden site's for sure... but it will unmask not with lightning fast response and target shut down but with the ability to blend or how can I say it place one tone on top of another tone...

It on 15Khz but it seems to be hot across the board ...the machine sees target size more than conductivity .. I mean say a shot gun hull will respond as deep as a quarter...or a 50 cent piece will respond as deep as a brass rosette....

Deep iron will fool it sometimes like all machine's....one thing I have found when it's a real deep target that's larger say like baseball size iron the iron audio I.D. does not report the roll sound on the edge's in pro mode but it will clip the edge's of the good sound in pro mode with the iron I.d. off for some reason...sort of a ever so faint fizz beep fizz.... so on real deep iron that is something to keep in mind...Again audio is unreal on the At-pro...

It's like listening to a song in A.M. then Listening to the same song on F.M. and saying hey I never heard that part of the song before...

I have only used the machine in house site's looking for relics.....

How well does it say hunt a park for deep silver ???? How well does it prospect gold???

Stil lot's of question's to be answered....but it's very capable ...

in the way I use it I don't need bell's and whistle's just the ability to I.D. iron and unmask...and that is it's strong point and ultimate aim...

Someone else would probably be better at telling how the machine perform's in say a park hunting scenario..I can only comment on relic hunting in 150 year old site's... But I will say the I.D. meter is very accurate ....

Unfortunately the Etrac trumps the F75 LTD and Omega on deep silver dimes. I've hunted many a time with friends that have the ET and I'd say 90% of the time they are smoking the F75 LTD and Omega on deep silver. I wouldn't even try to compare an Omega to an Etrac, the depth on the Omega just isn't there. If they made an Omega LTD, we might have a horse in the race!

I have one spot that I'll dig anything non-iron and go real slow, I've pulled 8" deep silver dimes or indian heads from this site with the O8, but typically you just get a tick of a high tone and roll the dice to see what you get with those kind of tones. I'd love to take an ET over this site, as I know there's probably more silver there, and given it's age there should be seateds hiding out, but I've only found late 1800's barbers and up.



go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Unfortunately the majority of silver coins out
> here are silver dimes, so I know the F75 LTD is
> missing a LOT of them.
>
> In my southern red clay, my LTD beat my Explorer
> II w/Pro coil hands down over my 8" silver dime,
> and I knew that Minelab well. Now if the Etrac
> has similar depth to the Explorers, which is what
> I have often read, and your Omega trumps the LTD,
> then....
>
> Where did I read that long running head-to-head
> comparison titled: "Omega vs. Etrac"???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 05:12PM by Cal_cobra.

Keith thanks for your honest reply.

I never thought I'd try a Garrett, but this machine is looking very good! I've been waiting to buy another machine, and was thinking Etrac, but I think I'll hold out a bit and see how the AT Pro unfolds (in the interim perhaps a new machine will surface

Thanks,
Brian

Brian - As I'm sure you know, Tom's results are different and he states that the F75 trumps the E-Trac in moderate or lightly minerized ground.

I think your soil is significantly worse than Tom's. I know he says in bad ground the multi-frequency machines will prevail.

Whatever direction you decide to go with a new machine, I look forward to reading your reports.

Unfortunately Florida's inert soil is no match for the mineralization in California. I would love to hunt with Tom one of these days to compare notes on technique with our LTDs. Even though I have hundreds, heck maybe even thousands, of hours on my F75 LTD, I know Tom is much more methodical/scientific in his approach to detecting then I am.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the F75 LTD isn't a good machine, it's a great machine given the right circumstances. If you're mainly after deep silver coins, in mineralized soil, you are going to miss a lot of targets with the F75 LTD. This I know from experience, it's tiresome and frustrating to watch my buddies with their ETs pull out multiple silvers from a well hunted park, and the LTD gets nadda.

I think I'll try a AT Pro. Honestly I never thought I'd ever try a Garrett, but this machine has peaked my interest.

Happy hunting,
Brian




marcomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian - As I'm sure you know, Tom's results are
> different and he states that the F75 trumps the
> E-Trac in moderate or lightly minerized ground.
>
> I think your soil is significantly worse than
> Tom's. I know he says in bad ground the
> multi-frequency machines will prevail.
>
> Whatever direction you decide to go with a new
> machine, I look forward to reading your reports.

Cal and I both live close by and have hunted together I feel the same way about the LTD in our ground but the G2 has done for me what the LTD couldn't do maybe not as deep (maybe) but boy it hits on everything and hard.

The AT pro seems to like bad ground and from what I have read and is deep. The one thing that happens to me is sometimes I have only one chance to hunt an area and I want to feel I was using a detector that can see what is in the ground even in iron. Right now the G2 does that for me and has proven itself time and time again. I will keep my eye on the AT and also see what fisher brings to the table.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

this Spring. Do I get to wear a cape and some really cool goggles?

Lawrenzo -- I am interested in what you say about the G2. Is it OK if I PM you with some questions?

Cal_cobra and Lawrenzo -- just to add to what you say, I'm not sure how "bad" my red-clay soil is, in a range between Mr. D's inert FL soil and you guys out there in California gold country-type soil, but it's probably at least "moderate." In this soil, there is one guy I know who SLAYS the deep silver in well-hunted parks, and he uses...an Etrac! I am going on a hunt with him for the first time this Saturday, so I will see it in action, and if he finds any deep silver, he's gonna let me run over it with my F70 to see what it sees. But, from others comments, I do NOT expect it to ID well; hopefully it will at least "see" the deep silver.

Cal_cobra, you say you have dug 8" silver dimes with just a "tick" of a high tone on your Omega; first of all, would you get a "tick" of a high tone on the same coin with your F75 (in boost AND non-boost mode); secondly, even IF you get a "tick" with your F75 in default mode on these 8" silvers, I'm STILL in trouble with the F70, as this thing gives "ticks" of high tones about once every 1-2 seconds, when working in iron trash! AHHH!!!! An Omega LTD? Now THERE's an idea...!

Terra -- yes, you get a cape and goggles, and THEN an invite from me to give me LESSONS on how to beat those Etracs!

Steve

You can PM anytime

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Steve I know what you mean about getting those ticks all the time, the F75 LTD does the same thing, but they're almost always false alerts (non-repeatable).

The O8 is much more stable, if you can get a repeatable high tone tic/TID on the O8, DIG!!! It's almost always a high conductor target.

If you get an iffy high tone on the F75 LTD, in my experience it's almost always junk. The F75 LTD is a great relic machine, but it's far from the best **deep** coin shooter out there (especially for smaller coins, silver dimes/half dimes/pennies). This is where my main frustration with the F75 LTD lies. Will it get deep targets, absolutely, it loves 9" deep beaver tails that ring in as dimes. Will it get deep itty bitty drops of lead, or brass, yes it will, but I don't care about that where I hunt. If I lived in a CW relic type area, I have no doubt the F75 LTD would be killer, but in mineralized California where we're mainly hunting park type areas where silver coins tend to be deep, it hasn't proven to be the best machine out there. I've made great finds with it (it's very hot on gold), It can also get silently masked by the an Etrac, so if you're using a F75 SE/LTD and hunting with the ML crowd, be aware that you can be significantly handicapped and not even know it. If' experienced this and it's frustrating. You can get around this, when your Explorer/ET buddies do their noise cancel, make sure you're next to them pulling your pinpoint trigger and the Minelabs will pick frequencies other then what the F75 is using.

It'll be interesting to see how the AT Pro does, I like that you have the option to select a modulated audio or a binary audio (Fisher are you listening, that was a disaster to put such a multitude of audio variables on the new Gold Bug variants, let the user pick what audio they like....it's a computer, it shouldn't be that complicated to provide some user options). Apparently you can an AT Pro dropped shipped directly from Garrett so I would assume these do not have the falsing issues. If the rain subsides here tomorrow, I'll take my F75 LTD out in the morning for a spell (it's been pouring rain here all week).

Happy hunting,
Brian

Although I have the T2, do you have an idea of distance one needs to be away from the ML machines to negate the masking effects. The guys I hunt with all have E-Tracs. Thanks!
And having lived & detected in all parts of CA, my soil here in Idaho is just as nasty for mineralization. Its gold country.
Oh....I forgot to ask....does the Fisher cause problems for the Minelabs?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2011 06:26AM by TerraDigger.

I don't know how far away one needs to be to mitigate the EMI crosstalk between machines. The MLs don't seem to be effected by the F75. If they noise cancel it'll work around the F75 frequency.

I'd love to see First Texas bring out a multifreqency machine, or one that's main focus was deep coin hunting, they seem to be on a roll with relic machines. I'm going to give First Texas machines a rest for a while and test out some of the other makers. To me part of the fun of detecting is seeing who has the better mouse trap, competition promotes innovation.

Cal, that is my experience too. The ET beats the LTD and the LTD beats the Omega. The LTD slightly trumps the T2 and the T2 trumps the Omega. The Tejon isn't even in the running, the SovereignGT does well on some of the targets... but the ET simply hits all of them hard and correctly IDs them... and it will do it with the stock coil, and the 8x6 and 12x10 SEF coils. I was using the 8x6 SEF on the V3 to.. I was using the 11" on the Omega, tried the 5" on both the T2 and F75 LTD but neither worked well. I switched to the 11" on both the T2 and LTD and it was night/day difference... but still not on par with the ET.

I need to make a video...

Julien


Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately the Etrac trumps the F75 LTD and
> Omega on deep silver dimes. I've hunted many a
> time with friends that have the ET and I'd say 90%
> of the time they are smoking the F75 LTD and Omega
> on deep silver. I wouldn't even try to compare an
> Omega to an Etrac, the depth on the Omega just
> isn't there. If they made an Omega LTD, we might
> have a horse in the race!
>
> I have one spot that I'll dig anything non-iron
> and go real slow, I've pulled 8" deep silver dimes
> or indian heads from this site with the O8, but
> typically you just get a tick of a high tone and
> roll the dice to see what you get with those kind
> of tones. I'd love to take an ET over this site,
> as I know there's probably more silver there, and
> given it's age there should be seateds hiding out,
> but I've only found late 1800's barbers and up.
>
>
>
> go-rebels Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Unfortunately the majority of silver coins
> out
> > here are silver dimes, so I know the F75 LTD is
> > missing a LOT of them.
> >
> > In my southern red clay, my LTD beat my
> Explorer
> > II w/Pro coil hands down over my 8" silver
> dime,
> > and I knew that Minelab well. Now if the Etrac
> > has similar depth to the Explorers, which is
> what
> > I have often read, and your Omega trumps the
> LTD,
> > then....
> >
> > Where did I read that long running head-to-head
> > comparison titled: "Omega vs. Etrac"???

Julien, do you have a test bed with deep silver or copper?

As a standard T2 owner, I would be thrilled if you made a video evaluating the four machines........that would be awesome. I think a whole lot of people would think so too.

I can't speak for the other machines mentioned but I can speak for the E Trac .....and the Sovereign for that matter ......The NYC parks I hunt are picked to death .....If you can come out fo there with one or two Silver a day after a LONG hunt , you're doing well ......The depth is one thing , but the way a machine handles masking issues , and seperating targets is quite another .....You can't read DEEP Silver if there is so much iron or trash in the way on the way down to the Silver .....Enter E Trac !!.....The E Trac unmasks Silver GREAT !!.....When you are speaking 8 inch dimes , the E Trac wil not only hit the 8" Barber dime , but with good I.D. as well ..... Barber dimes at 8-10 nches is the norm here in NYC ....Most all of the 6 inch deep Silver is LONG GONE !!..... The AT Pro handles iron really well !!.....As good as the E Trac ? ....I'm not sure yet as I have not gotten to the park as it's snowed in .....If it handles the park as well as it does the beach , I don't think that I will have any problems ...... To give a blanket statement that the AT Pro handles wet sand Saltwater is something that I will NOT do .....Some beaches are handled well while others are heavily laden with Black sand and trash and other iron .....There are some beaches here in NY that the AT can G.B. in very well , while others are all but imposible ..... You can still TRY to hunt them if you can put up wtih the noise ....The AT has no threshold to turn down , so what you hear is what you hear , like it or not .....You can always turn down the Sensitivity really low , but I would rather go up to the dry sand and hunt at full Sensitivity and try my liuck there ......As I said , it's doable at much lower sensitivity , but I'm not one to hunt that way .....Jim

BTW ...My hunting partner ( EZrider ) sold his F75 to go to the E Trac when the E Trac first came out , and when I mention the F75, he just shakes his head and says " what do you see me hunting with ? " .......Nuff said !!....Oh !!....Another phrase that he used a lot when describing the F75 in trashy park like settings ...." It was like R2D2 on crack !!" .........Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2011 11:26AM by synthnut.

Jim --

R2D2 on crack?!?! Now that my be the best explanation of my F70 in a trashy site, as I've ever heard!!


And Brian/Cal_cobra -- it's interesting what you said a Fisher user can do when hunting with Etrac guys to eliminate potential for silent masking (how the Etracs can pick a different frequency than what you are using -- if they "noise cancel" while you are hitting the pinpoint trigger). I will try that next time I'm hunting with my Etrac friends; just curious, why do you have to be hitting the pinpoint button (in my case)? Why wouldn't the Etrac "noise cancel" properly if you are in a regular hunt mode with your Fisher?

Steve