I curse the Omega!!!

This is my second post in regards to the Omega. Specifically the many problems I've been experiencing since I purchased this unit roughly one month ago. On my first few hunts a couple weeks back, I was fortunate enough to find some mercs, a couple of silver rings, a gold filled ring and lots of clad. However, I quickly noticed a recurring theme; almost everything I was digging wasn't more than 7" or 8" TOPS. Furthermore, the sites I was hunting were quite old & I was digging 150 - 200 targets per outing. So, methinks the Omega had little to do with the mediocre finds. Rather, I attribute the finds to my perseverance, the age of the locations & my time and labor investment. What really got my blood boiling though was an outing last weekend. I was hunting with someone using a Minelab Safari (which I used to own). He was finding merc after merc at only 7" or 8"...in spots that I went over with my Omega and missed Either they didn't register on my machine, or, they came up on the VDI screen as bouncy or in a range I wasn't digging. And as I just said, they were NOT all that deep.

After posting my first message regarding my concerns, I was told to go out and experiment with the unit. I did just that this afternoon. However, I only lasted roughly an hour and a half before the frustration set in and I split. Here's the SPECIFIC problems I'm having in bullet form. Anyone that had or is currently using the Omega, please feel free to chime in.

1. I am ground balancing EXACTLY per the instruction booklet. A. Set the unit in auto-tune B. Scan the turf for clear, target free ground C. Adjust threshold for a slight hum D. Pump coil from 6" to 1" above the ground while holding down the ground grab button. After having done this NUMEROUS times so far on my many hunts, sometimes I notice the pushing & pulling noise from the ground, sometimes not. Today I didn't. More importantly, the instructions clearly state that if the internal ground balance is out of whack, there will be black bars in the lower left hand of the screen. During my hunts, there's almost ALWAYS black bars. Following the instructions again, I always eradicate the bars using the up & down arrows. Yet, the bars keep showing up after 30 to 60 seconds I'm constantly having to get rid of these bars. Sometimes they're on top, sometimes on the bottom. What a pain. What am I doing wrong? How can the ground change so dramatically walking say just 2 or 3 feet?? After a while, I get so frustrated I just leave the bars be. BTW, I'm in NJ on the East Coast. I do not believe we have a highly mineralized ground here.

2. Don't know if this is due to the ground balancing situation or not, but, I cannot seem to get a decent signal beyond 6" or 7" unless it's can slaw or some other large item. Anything deeper than this and the signal fades out to a barely audible light tone. Seems to me that this unit's depth isn't more than half a foot unless one is hunting in sand or sandy type soil.

3. Pinpointing is LOUSY. I'm using the 11" DD and it is a struggle to find the target sometimes. So, I don't even use the pinpoint "feature" any more. I simply X the target and do the wiggle technique. This seems to work best for me.

4. Pinpoint lags quite often. Sometimes loses the signal while pinpointing as well. Or, cannot get a pinpoint signal at all on something deeper than 6" inches or so if I'm lucky.

I did some SERIOUS research on this unit. On this site and a million others. Most of the feedback and reviews were glowing. However, I just don't get it. I see an F75 or an Explorer SE in my future soon. I purchased this unit hoping to get a solid 8" to 10" inches on coin sized targets. That's NOT happening. Let me know if it's me, or, if this unit just doesn't cut the mustard to find those old deepies.

I've never hunted with an Omega , but I sincerely doubt that you will get 8-10" on a coin if your soil is mineralized ....I had a Safari also that I was not crazy about , and never got that deep either in mineralized soil ...... You won't hit those depths either with a larger coil like the 11 inch coil if the soli is that bad ..... Sand ? ...Yes , but Soil ? .....I sincerely doubt it ....There are not many machines out there that can do what you want to do .... You may want to check the soil for one, and also double check your depths ..... Hitting coin sized targets like that you are talking, at the depths you are talking , you would need an E Trac .....Not to put down the Omeaga , but I'm not sure it will do what you want ....Jim

those bar's moved around on the one I had all the time...I believe if you would pump the coil they would change to more center... but while sweeping I notice the move with target's and sort of hold there after going across them....if you pump the coil say while they are showing 3-4 below the center line it should come back up toward center...


the depth is there it's just deeper on higher conductor's like dimes.quarter's ,half's and dollar's...it's by no means a depth monster but it is very formidable .....I noticed it liked larger item's at depth like silver dollar size target's and bigger.....loves larger brass... Like Buckle's...The G2/and Omega since they both use the same coil's is a good one two punch...But for less money you can get the T-2 and it's is able to hang with either for the most part... So that's an option also if you think about an upgrade....


I dont think there's nothing wrong the pinpoint it does have a slight lag compared to other machine's...Not sure why just something to remember..it lags coming back out of pinpoint also...


I dont think there's nothing wrong with the machine...I had 3 and they performed like that and found plenty...

Keith

As long as you properly ground balanced from the get go, I wouldn't worry about the black GB bars too much unless they stay stuck in a specific area as the ground changes all the time. I see the bars move up, down, from one bar to multiple bars, but as long as their moving around and not stuck in one area, I think it's fairly normal. With the real time ground info I always wondered why Dave Johnson didn't just go one more step and add auto ground tracking capabilities, heck it's already reading the ground, just use the computer to compute the ground balance adjustments. I dunno.

I don't have any issues pinpointing, seems to poinpoint about the same as the 11" DD on my F75 or my F70 did. I've never seen pinpoint lag.

On the depth, IMHO it's not going to have the depth of a Safari/Explorer/Etrac. IF you got a dime at 8" I would say that's normal. If it ID'd and had a good digable tone to it, then you're lucky as most of the 8" dimes I've found with it have been light pings, and sometimes very bouncy but with enough repeatable high tone in the mix that it was worth rolling the dics.

Honestly if I were you, I would send it into FT for a check-up, maybe it has a flunky coil or something.

My first concern would be .... lack of depth. If you can have one of the Explorer/ETRAC guys find a (approx) 8" deep coin.........THEN see what your Omega will present on this target. Or................. bury a dime in sans soil......and see how the unit performs in your specific dirt. Better yet..........have one of the Minelab guys bury a dime at 8" or 9"......making sure his Minelab can properly see/ID the coin.........THEN see how your unit responds to this target. It is a VERY important test for the detector.......and your confidence factor.

IRT the black bars........I have noticed these black bars (Grnd Bal mineralization differential from units current Grnd Bal setting).......change.....and by a fair amount.......as I entered into iron pits (nail and rust infested dirt). As long as the unit remains Grnd Bal'd to target-free dirt......you should be okay.

My Omega gets about 8 inches in our bad ground and I ground bal so the numbers stay about a couple of digits and lock in. Um pin pointing is asaeasy as the G2...Though the G2 is my number one machine and the Omega is a loaner for friends or a back seat SUV leave it and forget it detector. But it is a great unit for the money. My bars move around but they go back I think it is when I am in iron or real bad dirt. I don't worry so much about depth 8 inches on a dime is great and yes if you are at a park these days or school you are going to dig a lot of trash. Some say the Etrac will make park hunting and school hunting night and day over the sig freq machines. But back in the day we use to use the whites and clean up at parks and I am talking about ten years ago...

I am waiting for Fisher and Tek to come out with a new coin machine...boy they have the relic hunting market down with the LTD the T2 and the G2.

The G2 is a great hunter for anything even coins and it has replaced my LTD. At parks it is a pain because if you don't dig the trash you are going to miss the good stuff...You could cherry pick dimes and higher and dig the crown caps but you may find silver rings....Yeah I would send it in and have them check it and if not pleased time to try a new machine. Sometimes you have to see what works for you. Get an older CZ3D and you will get more depth but it is not as fast as the new line and has a harder time with iron...You can't have it all but maybe a new machine will come out and change that..My money is on Fisher and Tek they do it right and I think they have a few great platforms to build on.

It takes time to build and design a new machine so now that the At is out a lot of guys are liking it for iron relic hunting. These hunters have been doing this for a long time and if they can see a little more in the iron they are happy hunters. For me the G2 is the best machine I have had for my type of hunting in my type of dirt...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Thats what it boils down to. Best machine for you, in your type of dirt. Lowboy you use the 5" coil or 11" the most?

The 11Dd most of the time but in nails I will use the 5DD and see what works better.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

The title sounds like something my relatives from New York would say!!!!

Hi NJNYdigger. Save yourself so much grief. Get a new machine asap.

Terra,
A true NEW YAWKER would have a nick already out of a tree in a park in NYC somewhere , and the shaft on the Omaga would have a pretty good bend in it about now !!..... .......Jim

Please don't ask me how I know !!......

Thank you SO much for all of the excellent replies!!! That's why I'm coming to this forum more and more versus the others I normally haunt - the friendliness and knowledge. Before we go any further, let me clearly state that I've been detecting for roughly (3) years now. So, while I certainly have learned my "A.B.C.'s" in terms of this hobby, I am by NO means on the same level tech wise with Tom or some of you other old hands. However, I understand how detectors work, always strive to come up with a winning spot and I always work my butt off when in the field.

Since I started in this hobby, I have used the White's MXT, the Minelab Safari & currently the Omega 8000. Believe it or not, I actually like the Omega out of all of them. Why? Simple...

* Light as a feather

* Gets 20 - 25 hours on a single 9v battery

* Excellent in and around iron and trash

* Multi tone in discrim mode

* Notch mode

BUT, the depth I ascertained on both the MXT and the Safari where clearly more than the Omega. No doubt whatsoever. The signal started to fade out after 8" or 9" on these machines for coins versus the 5" or 6" inches on the 8000. Plus, the Omega LOVES junk. Bottle caps, beaver tails and pull tab's are consistently ringing up in the dime/quarter range on mine. And the tones sound just like a coin too. As I previously mentioned, I am NOT expecting my little Omega to keep up the pace with a Minelab or even a White's for that matter. Those machines can EASILY see a coin up to 12" to 14". I was just hoping to have the Omega see the same coin at "8 to 10" AND provide a nice, clear, loud target signal - similar to Tom's CZ-3D in his video. With the Omega detecting a coin past 5" or 6", all I get are very light signals, pips, burps and vague soft tones. Nothing clear and loud. This is on coins. On a soda can, relic, bottle cap or rusty nail, the signal is a LOT better. But, it just isn't there on coins.

Again, the 8000 isn't a bad little unit. It's good for what it's good for. However, I don't think it was designed with the intent to sniff out deep, old silver and coins. IMO, it's more of a very good clad shooter, jewelry hunter or relic machine. Or, if one is using a higher-end machine that nulls out around trash, this is the perfect unit to go in and cherry pick around the junk.

I'm not giving up on the 8000 just yet. I will be doing some testing and report back to you guys. Thanks again for the feedback

First....You don't check your ground balance by sweeping the coil. You check your ground balance by pumping the coil. The bars will rise over metal. While you are sweeping the coil over a metal object, the number of bars will increase. When you think your ground balance has changed, find a clean spot and pump the coil and check your bars then.

Find a clean spot, ground balance, ingore the bars while you sweep, and go hunt targets, and ever so often pump the coil over a clean patch of ground and check them. Then if they show a bar or two out of balance you can fast grab and hunt some more.

The Omega, like the F5, doesn't have that robust audio at depth in the 3 and 4 tone audio modes. You will have to run the 1 tone or 2 tone audio modes and train your ear for the deeper targets. If you try to use the visual id on them you'll have to learn to interpret that confidence/signal intensity graph and peak signal responses.

Lastly....you might want to try different headphones. Some give better responses than others and allow you to continue to hear a response at greater distances than others. The Koss UR-30 are more sensitive headphones as compared to my Uniprobes and I can hear fringe depth whispers (or pings depending on my setup) better with them than my others.

Good luck.
HH
Mike

PS....don't overdrive your sensitivity for your ground conditions. If your FE304 bar graph tells you that you have high minerals, don't expect to get any depth with your sensitivity set to 99. Use the ground information that the Omega gives you (type and strength) to properly drive your unit. If the ground info says you need to run lower levels, run lower levels. You get more depth and better responses on targets.

Excellent tips Mike!!! BTW, I know that you do not sweep the coil to ground balance. Rather, I do that BEFORE ground balancing to check for clear, target free ground.

On the headphone suggestion, methinks I'm finally gonna give in and get some good ones. I have Sony's that I've been using. The style with the foam padded ear muffs. I've never been a fan of the bigger ones since it is gruesomely difficult when hunting in hot weather with them.

In reference to the tones, you might be on to something. I seem to MUCH prefer D3 on the tones. Don't know why, I just do. Personal preference I guess. However, per your suggestion, I think I'll give D1 or D2 a shot.

Are there any hard or even rough numbers anyone has on how much more depth is gained by auto-tune (all metal)? Unless the ground is clean, very tough to use auto-tune on the Omega. No tone differentation, so, one's eyes must be glued to the screen.

I don't recommend you get a new detector just yet. You need to figure out what the problem is first. If its the sight you are hunting you could end up repeating the situation. If you exhaust all measures and can not resolve it, then try something else. I'm sure if its a coil issue or the unit is bad, the company will make it right. Stuff happens! Good luck.

Hi njnydigger. Great to hear that you actually like your Omega the best of all. Keep on diggin....

I had an omega for 6 mo. nice liteweight, easy to use. I had a problem with the machine loving aluminum crud, not ID' ing nickels in a consistant manor, and lacking depth. 8" deep was the max on my omega also.
I bought the safari, tested them side by side, kept the safari, and sold the omega. The safari ID's nickels and other targets very accurately, and has better depth.The first time out with the safari, I could not believe all the coins I found in the same areas I hit with the omega. I like running the safari in all metal, and listening for the higher tones. The response is very fast in this mode. I dont like the weight of the safari, and the balance isnt the best. Im not a dealer.

Couldn't agree with you more possum!!! As I said, I happen to like the Omega a lot. However, just not good for what I need. Something just 2" or 3" more is all I'd like. I too used the Safari and you are RIGHT on the money Deeeeeeeeeeeeep on coins, VDI is VERY accurate and when you hear that high tone, you know you have something good. I didn't realize what I had when I owned it. It nulled out a LOT in trashy places, so, wanted something with the same depth that DIDN'T null out. Now I'm stuck with the Omega. And yes, the 8000 seems to love aluminum crud, small bits of trash, bottle caps and pull tab's. And yes again, 8" is really the TOP of the line that I'm seeing depth wise And you're statement on the nickels is spot on.

Getting only 8" of depth on a machine is useless to me, however, believe it or not, I actually would keep the unit (since I love everything else about it) if the coins in the deeper ranges signaled louder and clearer. To only get 8" and then have to become a detective investigating those faint, low signals is aggravating.

Teknetics has a great little machine in the 8000. If only the depth was a bit deeper, it would surely be giving the other big names a major run for their money.

And BTW Possum, you are a brave guy. Running all metal with a Minelab is frightening. Not so much in clean ground, but, anywhere kinda trashy on up and it sounds like you're stuck in a pinball machine But, I really do miss the depth and that sweet high tone that meant deep silver baby!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2011 01:07AM by njnydigger.

If 2" depth increase is the real sticking point in regards to the Omega..why not get the 11" DD coil. If it solves your problems....great...if not.....it will add to the resale value of the Omega......should you choose to sell it. A new coil is cheaper than a new detector.

Also, here is a video link with someone using a Omega with a 11" DD in a park.

[www.youtube.com]

I was out yesterday with my Omega and was digging coins at 8 and 10 inches in discrimination with the 5 incher.I live in Indianapolis so soil is not much of a problem.I thought it was working well,and I am sure I am missing some but I believe it is operater error not the machine.Get a ML if you want but that learning curve scares me away.I am too impatient.

I have an Omega and just got a G2. Here is what I have observed about my Omega: depth tops out at about 8-9", this is with the stock elliptical coil. People say put the 11"DD on it and get more depth, well I may try that now that I have the G2 and can swap coils, BUT....everything I read says that DD coils do not get better depth than concentric coils they just seperate better. So therefore I will try it but am not buying into it yet, till I see the proof. When people say they are getting 10 or 11" depth on coins with the Omega, how do they know? Do they guess? because I carry a cloth seamstress tape measure and measure to the top of the ground. My deepest "good" target I have dug with the Omega was a 58 cal. minie at 9"....it was a very faint weak but repeatable signal that ID'ed at 99 till I dug down closer and the TID started dropping. I have dug TONS of pieces of aluminum cans and pull tabs at depths of 7-8"...why? because they rang in strong with TID's from 80 up to 93. I used to own a Gamma and it's depth was BETTER than the Omega...I know this for a fact as my wife used it and we used to check each others signals and both machines were set up similar. I too love many things about the Omega, but the EMI issues and the depth issue will be forcing me to sell it and look at a Fisher F70, Explorer2 or if I could find a good used CZ-5 again.

I was using my Killer B's,the soil was a little damp, and I dug faint little beeps.TID numbers sometimes did not show.Well maybe it was 7.5 to 9.5 inches.Don't curse,use it.

Will give better depth in high moderate/severe mineralized soil. If soil mineralization is low/non-existent then target seperation is the only benefit

Wow, GREAT thread!! I've been debating a T2 OR an Omega 8000 lately & well, my next machine WON'T be an O8!! I'm looking for DEPTH, target separation (Tons of trash) and simplicity! Any suggestions??

Been swingin' a White's since the 70's - 5 machines, Currently an XLT & Fisher F75 LE - 50,000 finds, 30,000 (or so) keepers. Published in the White's catalog. Always looking for good/decent hunting buds! Get in touch!

I traded an X-Terra for an Omega and find it to be hot on the foil and aluminum range targets, and "OK" on coins. I also have an EX-2 and E-Trac and if you are specifically an old coin type hunter I think the FBS machines for silver are pretty hard to beat.
Maybe, if you can swing it, get an Explorer or E-Trac used, and keep the Omega for jewelry and faster hunting when you want to cover ground in a hurry.
Just my thoughts.
PS an 8" dime is not necessarily an easy target in a lot of soils and/or sites, so don't despair, here in our highly iron negative BC soil an 8" dime would raise some eyebrows.

Drew.

I can't see an 8" silver dime in my dirt w/ my Etrac running Auto Sens +3. It's seen running manual +5 but then I false on nails all the time.

That's the Etrac trade-off.