e-trac

You guys worry only for digging in the park for quarters and dimes. But where the Minelab shines its a old village spot where the 2000 years mineralization and nails and history lying down. Its very different situation. Fisher goes in this situation only 10 centimeters deep and not more, Minelab hits little hammered coin at 25 cm and more. Look at the european database, all old finds made only with Minelan units with no exceptions.

And how do the marketing efforts compare between the two companies in Europe?

Personally I hate the way ML clips the signal in normal so early on I started using audio 1.
In fact, if it wasn't for audio 1, I would moved on to another model.
I don't know anyone else that uses audio 1 but it helps me out in trashy areas, if I get a hint
or one little broken signal note of a non-ferrous, I dig.
I tend to dig some iron using this method but if I were in normal audio, I wouldn't be able to
hear anything but iron many times as I have compared the 2 over a given iffy signal.
Still, audio 1 is quite an earful but after the initial learning lessons of using, I turned down the
volume level so I don't get blown away by strong signals.
Seems that everytime I hear someone that has tried it, say its too busy.
Makes possible using just about any sweep speed, from real slow to fast.

marxionu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys worry only for digging in the park for
> quarters and dimes. But where the Minelab shines
> its a old village spot where the 2000 years
> mineralization and nails and history lying down.
> Its very different situation. Fisher goes in this
> situation only 10 centimeters deep and not more,
> Minelab hits little hammered coin at 25 cm and
> more. Look at the european database, all old finds
> made only with Minelan units with no exceptions.

I beg to differ. Old Whites eagle spectrum, Saxon Horde. If I remember correctly F75 in the hands of a 3 year old a very valuable relic cross worth millions. And on forums I frequent many many other finds coming from other machines. It depends on where you put your coil even a bottom of the line machine can shine in the right spot. Dont get me wrong the Etrac is a awesome machine but not all encompassing.
Just my two cents
HH and be well

Yes, ..... QuickMask is all-metal mode.

Gonebeepin' Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As stated above, the e-trac will null (threshold
> goes silent) when going over a discriminated
> target. But keep in mind, that the E-trac isn't
> shutting down during this period, as with some
> detectors, it will still signal if it picks up a
> good signal while it is in a 'nulled' state.
>
> On the subjective side of things, I pick up good
> targets under, on top of, beside, with, one or
> more discrimated targets all the time. The
> detector is nulled and 'bing', a good signal comes
> through. Sometimes the null item is small, other
> times, large. It is common, not unusual. I have a
> Pistol Probe (Pulse Induction, all metal)
> pinpointer and it is more common than not for me
> to find multiple metallic items in a hole when
> recovering a good target. I put the rusty nail or
> whatever in the junk pocket and the coin, token or
> whatever in the keeper pocket. I have seen this so
> many times I think of it as just the way it
> works.
>
> That being said, I've not lost any sleep over the
> 'recovery' speed of the e-trac vs. the other
> detector offerings out there or the results of
> bench tests that show that the e-trac won't find a
> good target in amongst multiple rusty nails. I
> experience otherwise.
>
> Anyway, JT, I don't know if the e-trac is the
> detector of choice for you, there are lots of
> considerations when making a decision like this.
> If you are able to find somebody local that has an
> e-trac, and some other detectors you are looking
> at, perhaps they'd let you go on a ride-along with
> them and have a few swings and see what you think.
>
>
> Good luck out there,
>
> Gonebeepin'


it appears that the e-trac is a "nasty" coin hunter in the junk,and definitely
worthy of consideration!..great info!..my thanks!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Quote
NASA-Tom
The E-TRAC will detect a clad dime to a max of 12.4" in Florida dirt.

Tom, I remember you writing that the F75 LTD was good for 12" on your clad dime in your test bed. (BP mode?)

In an apples-to-apples test, is the E-trac good for another 0.4" depth vs the LTD?

Question for TomD,
Would you explain your quickmask sett up,please, and, did you try different noise channels, especially from 4 and under.
I also cannot find your original tests, or I would look it up myself. Thanks.

Just as a side note,,,,,,,, In ground @ four bars/65/75 GB, there appears to be very little difference using a small silver coin, between a T2 LTD and a EXPlorer SE Pro. The Explorer has a slight edge on ID of iron, (the T2 will make you dig some iron signals, that the EXp definitely says NO). The T2 in this ground has a good tolerance on the ground balance, 3/4 up or down from fast grab, dropping lower very detrimental, correct is best.
Point of side note, have you any idea,,,,, as in GB settings on a F75/T2,, where you think the Minlabs would excel, must be quite a bit more than four bars of Fe.

Disregard the top question, your above post has just come through as I posted.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2011 08:35AM by Mal.

Yes, the F75 is in 'bp' mode.....and will acquire a clad dime to 12.0" in textbook perfect scenarios......and the E-TRAC will acquire at 12.4" with it's 11" coil. For a side-note.....a proper CZ with 10.5" coil will ascertain 12.6" on a clad dime.

It is hard to put this into words........but if you can read "Head-to-Head Comparison Testing" and "Coil Size Myths".............I will validate/justify by saying this:
The F75.........due to it's extremely tight electromagnetic footprint............is MUCH better with "effective depth" over the Explorer/E-TRAC and CZ.....with their "overall depth".

The Exp/E-T is not even close (in comparison) to the T-2/F70/F75.........looking for non-ferrous targets (coins included) in areas where there may be a fair amount of iron targets. The microprocessor is measurably too slow. I have put a large amount of exceptionally concerted effort/time in trying to get the E-TRAC to 'match' (or out-perform) the F75 in areas where there may be fair amounts of nails. The E-T was in constant threshold 'null'; yet, I did manage to find some non-ferrous targets that 'broke-through' the 'null'..............subsequently finding a non-ferrous target with iron target(s) in the same hand.............but not to the order-of-magnitude of the F75's plateau/performance level. Stay out of the iron with the Exp's/ET's. Stay in the bad-dirt/mineralization areas with the Exp's/E-T's.....as that is where they truly shine.

Yes, I did try Channel 2 and 3..........and several other channels on the E-T whilst hunting in the iron. I also tried Zero Disc, QuickMask '35'......'31' and '27'.........(for specific reasons).......to no avail. Several targets were located with the F75........then head-to-head tried on the E-T........and...... no-joy.....no-go. I also found a few targets with the E-T........and...........once again..........head-to-head tested with the F75.........and no problems. The F75 audibly 'resolved' better than E-T. Understand............these are Florida resultants.

Is it possible that the F75 might find more good targets in trashy areas but the etrac might make them a little easier to find?

???

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ???

I mean judging by some of the posts in this thread and others that I have seen, it sounds like etrac is a quieter running machine in trashy areas...........while the F75 might provide more information, but for some may be a bit too much to deal with.

I would venture to say that the F75 may do as well as the E Trac and perhaps even better in the Florida environment , but when you start getting into nimeralized soil , and in trashy area's , this is where the E Trac will take over ..... Here in NY , you can hardly hear yourself think with the F75 ...While the F75 and the E Trac run neck and neck in the depth dept , you will only get those figures with the F75 where it does NOT have to cut thru minerals , or trash ......The E Trac will have a respectable showing in neutral soil , AND in mineralized soil , not to mention it will also handle Saltwater and wet salty sand ...... Different technologies are being used on each of these machines, and these technologies shine in different places .... If I were in neutral soil like in Florida, perhaps I would opt to run an F75 .....But living in NY , I am pefectly happy running my E Trac ......This is why I had problems trying to deal with the AT Pro here in NY in trashy parks ....It's FINE on the dry sand beach where the targets are scattered all over the place .....Same situation only worse running an F75 ..... This may not be a problem to some detecorists as they are use to hearing a barage of tones being thrown at them .....It's not for me ..... Jim

Last year some of you may recall I was hunting a park that had a fair bit of silver left, and I was taking a friend that was using an Etrac. One hillside we found that had quite a few silvers also had quite a bit of trash (pull-tabs, crown caps, and aluminum wine caps) in one particular area.

I was sitting down taking a breather and watching my Etrac swinging hunting partner swinging the 6X8 (I think??) SEF coil, he said he could swear he heard a silver coin, and started digging. First out of the hole was a pull-tab, I chuckled. Next out of the hole was a crown cap, I chuckled again. Then another pull tab, I'm thinking he's chasing his tail. The last target out of the hold was a mercury dime. I almost couldn't believe it, but I watched it with my own eyes.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, the F75 is in 'bp' mode.....and will acquire
> a clad dime to 12.0" in textbook perfect
> scenarios......and the E-TRAC will acquire at
> 12.4" with it's 11" coil. For a side-note.....a
> proper CZ with 10.5" coil will ascertain 12.6" on
> a clad dime.
>

Add mild to heavy mineralization and the F75 in BP mode will be lucky to acquire a clad dime at 6" yet the Etrac and CZ will still perform admirably.

I'm not sure how FT can continue to ignore the needs of modern detectorists by not coming to the table with a modernized multifreq machine, because most of the world has mineralized soil to some degree. Few areas have inert, or almost inert/tame soil, and it's obvious that the ML (and other multifreq machines)) are cleaning house hunting environments with any amount of mineralization.

Is it possible to judge at what point, mineralisation wise, the EXplorer takes over from F75/T2LTD, I have ground which I consider bad, It runs in the Four bars 65/75 GB bracket...... Head to head, T2 LTD/EXplorer SE run equal in this ground, maybe with the EXp very slightly better IDing some iron.

Cal_cobra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, the F75 is in 'bp' mode.....and will
> acquire
> > a clad dime to 12.0" in textbook perfect
> > scenarios......and the E-TRAC will acquire at
> > 12.4" with it's 11" coil. For a side-note.....a
> > proper CZ with 10.5" coil will ascertain 12.6"
> on
> > a clad dime.
> > "
> Add mild to heavy mineralization and the F75 in BP
> mode will be lucky to acquire a clad dime at 6"
> yet the Etrac and CZ will still perform
> admirably.
>
> I'm not sure how FT can continue to ignore the
> needs of modern detectorists by not coming to the
> table with a modernized multifreq machine, because
> most of the world has mineralized soil to some
> degree. Few areas have inert, or almost
> inert/tame soil, and it's obvious that the ML (and
> other multifreq machines)) are cleaning house
> hunting environments with any amount of
> mineralization.


this is a "fascinating post!..when one considers that "most" hunters on this forum
have "tons" of experience,it is "almost" inconceivable to realize that "most" guys are NOT
running multi-frequency equipment!..perhaps ,"personal preference" plays a "major" role,however
there appears to be an "overwhelming" body of evidence which indicates that "multi-freqiency" detectors
are superior in "junk" riddled environments with varying amounts of mineralization,while searching for deep silver.
just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Out of curiosity when you guys are getting beat by the ML guys are you using the 3 or 4 tone settings? When going for the deep silver in park/fairgrounds I have to use 2F as my setting. I know it forces a slower detecting speed because you have to investigate so many more targets but the audio gives so much more description for me. The shallow target are easy to ignore and I concentrate on the deeper targets. Many of my deep coins don't give off great tones in 3 or 4 tone but are dead giveaway coins in 2F even though they ID as low as "17" sometimes. I don't get beat by the MLs and I use the F70. These guys aren't amateurs either.

This is my first post on this forum however I frequently visit this site as I find the post here unbiased and informative. I thought I would comment on this thread because I have several thousand hours of swing time on the Etrac. I have found the Etrac to be the best deep silver gathering machine I have ever used. It may be heavy and may seem slow to recover from nulls but I have proved to myself time and time again that this machine has the ability to break through a dead null with good signals. I have a certain area approximately 60' x 100' at an old fairgrounds that I have managed to pull over 400 silver coins and probably 1000 or more wheat pennies out of with the average depth from 7"-11" depth. This area once had an old structure on it that burnt down, I would imagine this is the reason so many coins were laying highly masked in this small area. I went over this site with over 50 different detectors and sometimes I would get lucky and find a silver or two with other machines but with no regularity. I have many hours logged on the F75's (original and LTD) as well and yes I found a few coins with them but between the mineralization and high quantity of nails I never faired nearly as well with these machines because the ID on coins was not nearly as accurate. Now as far as relic hunting ( mainly CW relics ) I prefered the F75's to the Etrac as you can cover much ground faster and your in a dig or no dig situation mainly trying to decipher between iron and conductive signals. Once I learned the tones on a the Etrac I could about 80% of the time tell the difference between deep clad dimes and silver dimes. The tone is the magic of the Etrac.

I wish I could say the same; however, in my neck-of-the-woods......the F75 and LTD are the trump cards. If only I could trump the F75's performance with the E-TRAC...............even by just 1%................. I would switch. I anxiously await for the day for ANY brand detector to do such....so as to open up another plateau of detecting opportunity.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish I could say the same; however, in my
> neck-of-the-woods......the F75 and LTD are the
> trump cards. If only I could trump the F75's
> performance with the E-TRAC...............even by
> just 1%................. I would switch. I
> anxiously await for the day for ANY brand detector
> to do such....so as to open up another plateau of
> detecting opportunity.


tom!
no reflection on you in any way,but you live in florida!..the state is basically
a "sand bar" sticking out in the ocean.since your soil is "inert" doesn't this fact weigh heavily
in your evaluation of the f-75 (l.t.d?)..just asking!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Yes. And this is why I can achieve 'near air-test' depth results in my dirt.

john37115 [ PM ]
Re: e-trac New
March 22, 2011 10:25AM

<The tone is the magic of the Etrac.>

This is also true for the older FBS machines,going back to the good ole XS...... Ive had an f75SE for a month now, and have made numerous non-ferrous finds with it that my older FBS machines didnt .....but Ive yet to pull an old COIN from any of these sites, with the F75(many coins came from these sites).... hmmmm, could be a head to head coming .....

Could you tell us some of the non-ferrous items found & their metal content. Interested, since 'coins' seem to be absent but other non-ferrous items are picked up.

Thats the great part with Toms test track [garden] .
You will max depth on all machines , its our job to learn
what it best in our soil.

Lots of interesting posts and plenty of 'in the field' experiences as well.

I do enjoy using my e-tac and can attest to it's ability to find good stuff in and amongst the rusty iron and junk that none of us really want to dig if we don't have to.

Something to keep in mind though, and a valid reason for performing tests, is that in the field, I don't know that I'm missing targets if I don't even know that they are there. (have we heard that somewhere before?)

There are hunting methods that we can use to give ourselves every opportunity to weasel out those tough to find targets, but the garbage can still keep things hidden from our electronic eyes. So I do look forward to real advancements in technology each year, as well as nature's seasonal assistance in moving things around in the ground.

Best of luck out there,

Gonebeepin'

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

limegoldconvertible68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out of curiosity when you guys are getting beat by
> the ML guys are you using the 3 or 4 tone
> settings? When going for the deep silver in
> park/fairgrounds I have to use 2F as my setting.
> I know it forces a slower detecting speed because
> you have to investigate so many more targets but
> the audio gives so much more description for me.
> The shallow target are easy to ignore and I
> concentrate on the deeper targets. Many of my
> deep coins don't give off great tones in 3 or 4
> tone but are dead giveaway coins in 2F even though
> they ID as low as "17" sometimes. I don't get
> beat by the MLs and I use the F70. These guys
> aren't amateurs either.

I know it's been discussed a lot in the past, but I'll have to revisit using 2F tones (I typically use 3 or 4 tones when hunting with the ML guys) . I've tried 2F, but it's tough to hunt a trashy area, but it could well help nail those deeper targets. What do you set your disc to when using 2F?

Thanks,
Brian

Great question...been wondering the same exact thing.

I think it's clear that First Texas has catered heavily to the relic hunter with their past few years of mid to high end machines (perhaps with the exception of the Omega and it's variants). Not that they won't find coins, but for the most part, particularly for small silver and copper coins they are not best in class for this task. They'll find low conductors like nobodies business in trash that the others struggle with, but high conductors are a completely different story, particularly if there's any amount of mineralization in the equation. I've found somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 silver coins with my F75 LTD, but they've been hard earned, and when I hunt with my ML buddies, and they consistently sniff out silver the F75 LTD misses, I can't help but wonder if that figure would be 300 silver coins if I had been using an Etrac instead.

I have a lot of respect for the Fisher/Teknetics brand and units, but it's clear that the advanced coin shooter has been left out in the rain since the CZ. I don't know if Dave J reads this forum, but I hope so as I think it's clear from all of the recent Etrac discussions that there's a void at FT.

I just hope they're not hard at work on yet another relic machine


silversurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john37115 [ PM ]
> Re: e-trac New
> March 22, 2011 10:25AM
>
>
>
> This is also true for the older FBS machines,going
> back to the good ole XS...... Ive had an f75SE
> for a month now, and have made numerous
> non-ferrous finds with it that my older FBS
> machines didnt .....but Ive yet to pull an old
> COIN from any of these sites, with the F75(many
> coins came from these sites).... hmmmm, could be a
> head to head coming .....

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you tell us some of the non-ferrous items
> found & their metal content. Interested, since
> 'coins' seem to be absent but other non-ferrous
> items are picked up.

Nothing all too scientific, as I didnt write down all the items.....Most notable was an old dog tag it was square(ish) in shape and made of brass. 1 full and 1/2 brass rivet(s) (different holes), a small pistol ball, a pulltab ring folded in half, and the rest (approx 20 pcs) were small odd shaped pieces of brass,tin,and some can slaw.
This particular site goes back to the early 1840's and was a stage stop, P.O., and tavern. It had heavy use through approx 1880, then was mostly a home stead until the 1970's. 2 newer homes now occupy this site (1 is mine :-) ) And the other belongs to my very understanding neighbor ! There has been soil turning in some areas, and some is original. There are ALOT of nails and other misc iron debris laying around.
A second site Im going to use is in an urban area. I have never really beat this place too hard, and I dont want to say too much as to give anything away but it is loaded to the gills with can slaw/pulltabs/rusty screw caps...... Most folks dont realize this place had another purpose back in the early 1900's, and I have snuck a few silvers in the past..... though nothing of the barber/injun era yet
I'll be trying the F75 SE in 2F tones, and comparing some signals w/the EXPII...... should be interesting.