Equinox vs F75 On Live Hunt

I first want to say that I read the Dankowski board often, but rarely post. I also appreciate the seasoned and talented posters who participate and have learned much from them.

I'm a Minelab guy, having used and loved my E-Trac for several years. Two days ago I accompanied a buddy, who had just received his new Equinox 800, to a local park that until about 30 years ago had been a Boy Scout camp since the 1920s. Confederates also camped on the site and a number of relics have been found over the years. I also have an F75 that I primarily use for field relic hunting, and chose to use it that day because there is a large amount of modern trash in some areas, and the F75 has much better separation/recovery speed than the E-Trac. We had hunted a short time and had been cross-checking target signals when I got a solid hit in the silver quarter range. I asked my buddy to run his Equinox over the target to see what the response would be, but surprisingly, the Equinox would not hit on this target much at all. It was registering the target as a much lower conductor, and not too solid at that. The F75 was absolutely banging the target, with the confidence meter maxing out on almost every swing. I was pretty convinced that there was a very good target under the coil. I began to dig the target, and at about 4 1/2 to 5 inches down was a 1951 Washington quarter on edge. There were no other targets in the hole, including any iron. I'm not certain how the Equinox was set-up, but I do know that he had it in the Field 2 program with a recovery speed of 6, and I suspect that all other settings were at factory defaults. I know from reading that a slower recovery speed will gain greater depth on the Nox, but this wasn't that deep of a target. I later regretted that I'd not gone to my car and gotten the E-Trac to see how it might have seen the target. I'm not here to bash the Nox, I'm just curious if anyone else has seen anything similar. I did read a report from someone else on the Dankowski board who had dug a silver dime on edge in amongst iron with a Nox; that sounds like pretty strong performance to me.

This was my friend's first hunt with the Nox, so obviously he had no experience with using or setting-up the machine. Can anyone suggest some optimum settings that would allow the Nox to potentially see a coin such as the one the F75 saw, but the Nox didn't?

Thanks for any help!

I know park 1 and field 1 struggle with silver quarters on edge, and by that I mean ID in the single digits.

Yes the Equinox has trouble with bigger silver on edge.. Silver Quarters, Halves and bigger silver rings standing on edge register iron or foil range..
Definitely a problem. Silver dimes and thin silver rings are not a problem..

Bryan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 03:43AM by Cabin Fever.

Alright I just tested outside in the dark. Elevated above ground using 2 2x4 blocks to hold quarter in on edge position.
I checked both field 2 and park 2.
May go back and check park 1 and 2.

So as far as park 2 and field 2 go.
If you sweep quarter, imagine quarter in front of you looking at rim. Sweeping left to right, right to left sens at 23 speed 6. I get good signal and ID to around 7-7.25"
Field 2 does about the same sweeping quarter the same way, but signal not as robust sounding.

Next, sweeping quarter, imagine sweeping when you can see the face of coin. Sweeping left to right, right to left. Here Equinox is giving high single digit ID with less airest detection height.

Will go and test park 1 and field one and post.
And compare Etrac with stock coil and post here additionally.

Okay, tested Etrac, imagine quarter when swingin across on edge looking at rim. No problem, looks to give similar air test height as Nox(26 manual sens)
Next imagine looking at quarter like you can see the face. Here Etrac fairs no better than Nox does, IDs at 20.

Checked park1, sorry performance here with Nox vs park 2 or field 2. Imagine looking at quarter's rim, sweeping left to right. Right to left. Gives tone but only sporadically shows good ID. Tone is all over the place too with ID numbers. Turning 90 degrees and sweeping again sorry.

Field 1 better performance than park 1, but not as good as either park 2 or field 2. I did notice single digit ID reporting when sweeping quarter as imagine you looking at the face of quarter on edge.

I also tried Etrac with quarter on edge on top of the ground. Same results as noted above.
A sens level of 23 used on all Nox tests above.

I probably should also add this.
Based on my testing. From sweeping quarter on edge as if you can see the face, sweeping left to right , right to left. Airtest showed to me, Nox just might strike deeper quarter from this quarter's orientation to detectorist sweeping, but ID in error low single digits, vs Etrac may not give any tone period. Detect modes park 2 and field 2. Also should say based on looking at results. It is my opinion, Nox user stands a chance (if they fail to rotate and sweep a quarter on edge.) to dig a quarter with a 12-13 reading thinking nickel. Etrac user the way the same oriented quarter is swept more likely to walk with the 20-21 Id in meter. As no coins really close to this number (maybe a few exotics like flying eagle cent, so Etrac user may be think junk target moreso.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 04:37AM by tnsharpshooter.

I did side by side testing with Equinox and E-Trac..
E-Trac had no trouble with big silver on edge..
I believe it has been brought to Minelabs attention so hopefully it can be fixed with a software update..

Bryan

I don't have an Equinox but from what I've seen since it came out, I wouldn't expect it to get anywhere near the depth of an F75.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 10:01AM by Badger in NH.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have an Equinox but from what I've seen si
> nce it came out, I wouldn't expect it to get anywh
> ere near the depth of an F75.
>
> .
In my mild/moderate ground (2 bar 81 phase on the F75) I don't expect it to out depth the F75 or X-Terra 705 using a proper coil for the conditions. Not buying it for that reason.

Tom

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.

So we’re saying that an F75 shows superior performance compared to the Equinox on large silver on edge?

(Wow.)

Tom D, can you comment on the unmasking capabilities comparing the F75 to the Equinox?

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So we’re saying that an F75 shows superior performance compared to the Equinox on large silver on edge?
>
> (Wow.)

I think the only advantage the Equinox has over the F75 is the ability to change frequencies to run in Gold Mode and Beach mode.

Depth is not one of the Equinox's strong points.

The F75 should also have just as fast or faster recovery if equipped with FA mode.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 12:48PM by Badger in NH.

Thanks to everyone for each of their comments!

tnsharpshooter: Appreciate the time you took to perform the revealing tests with the Equinox and E-Trac. I've run my E-Trac over this same area several times recently, and obviously never dug the quarter; probably rang-up as a junk target as your tests seemed to show. I do wonder if Minelab is aware of this apparent Equinox weakness. I plan to head back to this park today and will be using the F75 for the reasons I stated in my original post.

Brierfield Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to everyone for each of their comments!
>
> tnsharpshooter: Appreciate the time you took to pe
> rform the revealing tests with the Equinox and E-T
> rac. I've run my E-Trac over this same area sever
> al times recently, and obviously never dug the qua
> rter; probably rang-up as a junk target as your te
> sts seemed to show. I do wonder if Minelab is awa
> re of this apparent Equinox weakness. I plan to h
> ead back to this park today and will be using the
> F75 for the reasons I stated in my original post.

The only below par performance noticed with coin on edge is using park 1 detect mode as far as I can tell.
It may have some tondo with the algorithm used with program, and there very well could be a good why it does what it does with the coin on edge thingy. Meaning if mode was changed could performance be negatively affected elsewhere?
Well, that is above my pay grade.lol
I don't know what detect mode your bud was in. But I can say this. If for example a F75 user swings over an approx 5" deep coin on edge and gets good signal and ID. And if an Equinox user comes up and swings over the same quarter but using 90 degree different approach as the F75 user, yes the Nox will likely ID low and strength of tone may be lacking. Same would also apply to Etrac, even another F75 user who would approach and swing over.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 01:28PM by tnsharpshooter.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> go-rebels Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So we’re saying that an F75 shows superior perfo
> rmance compared to the Equinox on large silver on
> edge?
> >
> > (Wow.)
>
> I think the only advantage the Equinox has over th
> e F75 is the ability to change frequencies to run
> in Gold Mode and Beach mode.
>
> Depth is not one of the Equinox's strong points.
>
> The F75 should also have just as fast or faster re
> covery if equipped with FA mode.
>
> .


Badger, the Equinox is a different animal vs Fisher F75.
To avoid the risk of appearing to bash F75 detector, I won't go into details here as far as how they compare.
I can say this, and this applies to all single freq detectors, even the F75.
There are many targets they can locate.
But there are many targets they can't locate.
One word simple reason= Masking.
Hence why I brought Mr Dankowski's piece of writing up here on the forum - Beneath the Mask.
A very worthy subject to give huge credence to when detecting.
When folks are using their Equinox units, think about all what NASA-Tom talks about in his article.
And he has talked about masking in other threads/posts on this forum as well.
The invisible to us all killer-Masking.
Equinox has ability to solve parts of this KILLER -Masking.

You see we as detectorist, when we able able to locate nonferrous objects, and we find some worthy objects to take home with us, we are content. And this process can keep repeating itself especially if we keep going to new sites. But the real thing here is. We don't know what we don't know, meaning did we get all of the worthy targets in the sites we were detecting? We may think we did. But based on my experiences with Equinox I know for a fact I didn't get all the nonferrous targets out of my sites. And don't misinterpret this to mean even my use of Equinox in my sites GOT ALL either, as it has not. But Equinox allowed me to get some additional nonferrous finds.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 01:27PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter: I'm positive that we both swung over the coin from the same direction. I'm not sure if he swung the Equinox from the opposite direction, as well.

Brierfield Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter: I'm positive that we both swung o
> ver the coin from the same direction. I'm not sur
> e if he swung the Equinox from the opposite direct
> ion, as well.


That may be the case.
If so, I can say with near 100% certainty your bud wasn't in park 2 or field 2 detect modes.
Btw, I also checked Nokta Impact with stock coil.
Similar performance to Etrac and Nox (running in park 2 and field 2), meaning sweeping quarter on edge (airtest) sweeping as if looking a quarter's rim good id and tone. Rotate 90 degrees as if looking at face, tone is provided, coil height reduction for detection, and ID values of around 40% of what is obtained from the more ideal swept approach.
Although I don't have F75 detector presently, I would pretty much think it too would similar results as Nokta Impact.
Your and your bud can do experiments with quarter on edge and see for yourselves.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 02:11PM by tnsharpshooter.

I thought the same thing as you guys. The F75 is one of my favorite machines; I've had all the models of them since 2008 and have dug a bunch of coins and relics with them. I had to see what the Equinox was about for myself, and not just rely on hearsay or videos. My expectation was, the Nox would fall somewhere between a AT Pro and F75 in performance and would just be an added bonus to be able to handle wet salt sand due to the multi freq. I've never been an AT Pro fan so that wasn't really a high bar to surpass to me LOL, but the F75 has long been one of my favorite platforms and I think very highly of it. To be honest, I was thinking the Nox was going to be a replacement upgrade for the existing X-Terra line. Which wouldn't have been a bad thing.

With that said, I couldn't have been more wrong with my expectations of the Equinox. From MY actual in ground hunt depth results and in ground testing....I have zero desire OR need to ever go back to the F75 or T2 (or eTrac/CTX). And that is a BIG statement for me to make. I mean I really really like the F75 platform...and T2 platform as well. Equinox surpasses it in everything I have tested it with, and everywhere I've had it on a hunt thus far.. I mean everything. I knew it would probably be better in the speed/unmasking side of things but I did not expect the muscle of the depth. I will take it though!

As I stated previously, I don't know what all of his settings were, but I'm positive he had it in Field2; I swung it some myself and looked at the display.

I'm really glad to hear your positive reports on the Equinox, as I am thinking of picking one up later. The weight of the E-Trac is tough on longer hunts, as most people know.

I've been using the F75 LTD/LTD2 since 2009. Out here it struggles in our mineralized soil, that's where the EQ will take over. In areas with mild to low mineralization the F75 was a great performer, but faltered in our mineralized soil whereas Etracs, Exp2, CTX, etc, would shine, but if that mineralized soil was also riddled with iron, then the ML machines had a different handicap then the F75.

I’m hoping Tom can finally chime in.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought the same thing as you guys. The F75 is o
> ne of my favorite machines; I've had all the model
> s of them since 2008 and have dug a bunch of coins
> and relics with them. I had to see what the Equino
> x was about for myself, and not just rely on hears
> ay or videos. My expectation was, the Nox would fa
> ll somewhere between a AT Pro and F75 in performan
> ce and would just be an added bonus to be able to
> handle wet salt sand due to the multi freq. I've
> never been an AT Pro fan so that wasn't really a h
> igh bar to surpass to me LOL, but the F75 has long
> been one of my favorite platforms and I think very
> highly of it. To be honest, I was thinking the No
> x was going to be a replacement upgrade for the ex
> isting X-Terra line. Which wouldn't have been a b
> ad thing.
>
> With that said, I couldn't have been more wrong wi
> th my expectations of the Equinox. From MY actual
> in ground hunt depth results and in ground testing
> ....I have zero desire OR need to ever go back to
> the F75 or T2 (or eTrac/CTX). And that is a BIG st
> atement for me to make. I mean I really really li
> ke the F75 platform...and T2 platform as well. Eq
> uinox surpasses it in everything I have tested it
> with, and everywhere I've had it on a hunt thus fa
> r.. I mean everything. I knew it would probably
> be better in the speed/unmasking side of things bu
> t I did not expect the muscle of the depth. I wil
> l take it though!

That’s the report I was waiting for - someone that knows detectors and bad ground. Thanks Daniel.

Good report Daniel..
Anyone who doesn’t think the Equinox is deep either hasn’t run one or haven’t gotten their
coil over a deep target yet..
I know all the Fisher/Tek Detectors do great in mild soil but they can’t compete in depth where I live..

Bryan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 06:25PM by Cabin Fever.

So Daniel, It can handle that Ole' Hot ground You got?
I was curious about that. I always thought You liked the AT-PR0? You was bragging on it pretty good when it came out so what happened?

Great post Daniel.

Thanks,
Rick

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Equinox surpasses it in everything I have tested it
> with, and everywhere I've had it on a hunt thus fa
> r.. I mean everything. I knew it would probably
> be better in the speed/unmasking side of things bu
> t I did not expect the muscle of the depth. I wil
> l take it though!

WOW!!! Anyone who has been on this forum for a few years will know what this post from Daniel Tn means....quite an endorsement!...and for me unexpected as well...I really thought he would say it was nothing special in his red dirt.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have an Equinox but from what I've seen si
> nce it came out, I wouldn't expect it to get anywh
> ere near the depth of an F75.
>
> .

Yet, I would considering the F75 is dated technology - But there you go, some are happy with the tried and tested while others embrace new and exciting .........

[www.earthscan.co.nz]

rustic charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Badger in NH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't have an Equinox but from what I've seen since it came out, I wouldn't expect it to get anywhere near the depth of an F75.
> >
> > .
>
> Yet, I would considering the F75 is dated technology - But there you go, some are happy with the tried and tested while others embrace new and excitin
> g .........

I'm all for the new and exciting. I had an 800 on order since November but canceled it last week. I got tired of waiting and lost interest in all the excitement over it. A forum friend tried his 800 in my test garden and it couldn't detect the 12" silver dime and 15" silver quarter. The F75 in bp disc mode has no trouble getting those coins.

Now maybe the owner of the 800 was still new to the machine and in the right hands maybe it could get those coins. Right now I'm in wait and see mode. I may still get one if it has the performance that I'm looking for but it has to be on par with the F75 or there's no point in buying it for relic hunting.

I would also like a new lightweight beach machine but it would have to perform at least as well as the CZ21. The Equinox is nice and light but I don't like the ergonomics. I think they could have spent a little more time in that area of the design. We will probably see that in future models.

.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2018 02:07AM by Badger in NH.

Harold -- You are mistaken. I have never been a fan of the AT Pro. I did have one when they first came out and put it through its paces. I was actually the black sheep of that one; the majority of people seemed to like it and I just wasn't seeing it being any competition to anything I had on land. The only only plus to it was it was an affordable waterproof machine, and mine leaked the first time I put it in the water. Garrett fixed it and I didn't have it long after getting it back and sold it. I favored the AT Gold over the Pro, and the AT Max was somewhere in between. None of them were ever favorites of mine though.

----------------

Folks, I am going to keep testing and hunting with the Equinox but not posting a lot on it until I get a better understanding of it. I still have a lot to learn with it and I don't want to bore you with day by day commentary and dribble. I will do my best to answer any questions you might have, to the best of my ability if you PM me. I will post another thing on the F75, since I do have several years worth of experience on that platform, and a little snippet of what I'm seeing with the Equinox in comparison. I feel like when I try talking about it, that I'm sounding like somebody in "puppy love" so I usually end up scrapping what I typed to keep from sounding so giddy.

In my ground, the F75 never was an accurate ID machine. It has a tendency to have very jumpy IDs with every pass over the target. The ID gets worse with the number of bars that show on the Fe meter...meaning the more bars shown for the ground type, the less accurate your ID is going to be. A dime in my soil will ID correctly on the F75 down to around the 4 inch mark. So I'm saying laymen's terms, you could effectively cherry pick dimes down to around 4 inches with the F75 here, and that's with all models of them, including the current Plus model. By the time you get to 6 inches with a dime, the ID shifts way down and you start seeing anything from a Foil to Dime spread, and all in between. Once it gets deeper, the ID is dominantly iron range. At 8 and beyond, it is almost exclusive iron signal. The only way you will get a 10 inch dime in my soil with a T2 or F75 is to go 0 disc and just dig every signal....or to go all metal and do the same thing. All metal depth on the F75 is why I loved it. It was easy for me to be able to listen to the audio nuances and be able to tell whether the object was iron or not. Since I used it as a relic machine, I wanted to dig everything that wasn't small iron, so this wasn't a big deal and I made some very deep finds with it doing that over the years. All metal on the F75 can get a coin size object 12-13 inches on a regular basis with stock coil. The thing is, I never did like the F75 for a coin hunting machine; that's what I always used the CTX and eTrac for. The ID is more stable on those until the signal transitions to iron....there isn't the ID spread like there was/is on the f75, so instead of being limited to just 4 inches on cherry picking coins, I could expand this to 6, MAYBE 7 inches with the CTX and eTrac with 11 inch coils...but let's be clear, once a coin was over that depth, it was gone to the CTX and eTrac in my soil. I've been all over the place digging and I've been in places the CTX could accurately ID a coin 12-13 inches. But in mineral....not gonna happen.

So where did the Nox fit into all that?

I've already explained how the F75 does here. A 10 inch dime in mineral is a very tough signal to get on any VLF machine. You guys have seen my videos over the years demonstrating this, and saw Keith's videos as well showing it on multiple detectors. On some machines you can manipulate the GB and make the dime detectable but also makes the detector pretty much useless to actually hunt with. To get it at all is big...to do it with a good ID would be huge. The Nox can get a10 inch dime every pass over it in mineral. In discriminate mode...no all metal required and the ID is consistent with a coin ID. Out of the ground, a dime reads 27ish. In my ground, a 10 inch dime stays in the low to mid 20s...meaning you are going to hear the signal and interpret it as a good high conductor signal and dig it. I don't have anything in my test garden that it can't get. BUT my deepest target is a 13 inch nickel and it signals on it even better than the 10 inch dime. HOWEVER...I *THINK* the depth will peak somewhere just beyond 10" for a dime in this ground. I honestly don't have one at 12 inches to test, so I may be surprised...can't make that call. This detector's strength is indeed low conductors, but not shabby on high conductors in mineral either. That's what I'm seeing. The ID and depth for high conductors is better for me, than what I was seeing on the flagship models out there, including the CTX. The ID and depth for low conductors is just crazy.

So review....the best of the best coin hunting machines IN MY GROUND, hit a wall with dime ID at about 6 to 7 inches. I'm going to be generously liberal and say 7 inches for a machine equipped with 11 inch coil. The Nox ups the bar to at least 10 inches....maybe slightly more, for a dime, with an 11 inch coil in mineral. In a world where detector break thrus have been considered big to gain just a half inch depth...being able to gain 3 inches of ID has me grinning big as an opossum. For you guys with mild to low mineral soil that could already get and more with other machines...it's not going to be that big of a deal for you, unless you are wanting iron unmasking. For us in mineral....this is big.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2018 01:50AM by Daniel Tn.

[www.detectorprospector.com]

Calabash tells it like it is. His soil is mild, but he explains his results with all the different machines he has used. Interesting.

DTn

Well written report. Lots of words - but logically divided into sentences and paragraphs. So many English teachers seem to have suffered in vain. Apparently not yours.

Thanks for the report.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2018 03:37PM by lytle78.

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DTn
>
> Well written report. Lots of words - but logically divided into sentences and paragraphs. So many English teacher seem to have suffered in vain. Apparently not yours.
>

I agree. Very well written. The only mistake I could see was in paragraph two. The word is drivel, not dribble.

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lytle78 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DTn
> >
> > Well written report. Lots of words - but logica
> lly divided into sentences and paragraphs. So many
> English teacher seem to have suffered in vain. Ap
> parently not yours.
> >
>
> I agree. Very well written. The only mistake I cou
> ld see was in paragraph two. The word is drivel, n
> ot dribble.

Regional accent accepted. LOL

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a democracy, it is difficult to win fellow citizens over to your own side, or to build public support to remedy injustices that remain all too real when you fundamentally misunderstand how they see the world.