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New Fisher Manta

Posted by Frank in NH 
Re: Fisher Manta -
April 25, 2019 02:32PM
Looks like we got a mention on Steve Herschbach’s Detector Prospector forum. Someone on a thread about the AQ said he had been here and found the “rough and tumble” on this thread a bit much. Naturally, since I am often on Steve’s forum (where I am sinfully proud of the title of “First Forum Member” - it’s a long story) - anyway, I felt like I should comment - here’s what I wrote.

“As one of the participants on that thread on Dankowski, I will offer a couple of comments.

That forum get a bit “frisky” at times, it is loosely moderated and pretty wide tolerance is evident. That particular thread has been a focus fo?r a lot of folks who have been hearing about the upcoming Fisher beach PI for almost two years now and are increasingly frustrated by the fact that it seems to be a case of “so near, yet so far”. Fisher showed a pre-production machine at the big outdoor expo in Germany in the winter and now folks are really hot to see it released, but that hasn’t happened yet.

A few minutes ago, I got a “ping” from my iMail app. It was one of those annoying reminders from Linkdin - the career/jobs website that I am on - not because I want a job - but because it gives me an alternative to Facebook for following folks I know from when I was working. On Linkdin, I follow Alexandre Tartar (who is the designer of the AquaManta - now Fisher AQ). The reminder was an invitation to congratulate Alexandre on his anniversary of two years as an employee of First Texas Products.

Two years ago, Tom Walsh, the CEO of First Texas, opened his cash box and did an “aquihire” - acquiring the rights to Alexandre’s Manta Project and hiring him and his team. In the two years since then, the project has apparently been moving steadily towards production and market launch.

I think everyone who has been following this project expected a launch as early as 2018, now 2019 doesn’t look like a “slam dunk”. That is disappointing.

Two years is a long time to wait. It isn’t such a long time however in terms of the process of development and bringing to production status of a new platform, one which s?hares virtually nothing with any of First Texas’ existing products. Not an excuse, just an observation.”


Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2019 02:36PM by lytle78.
Re: Fisher Manta -
April 25, 2019 02:47PM
Hello,

Salt wet sand for US nickel :

IN ALL METAL MODE 17'' without noise at 7µs with a maximum ferrous discrimination

IN TONE MODE 17'' without noise at 7µs with a maximum ferrous discrimination

IN MUTE MODE 17'' without noise at 7µs with a maximum ferrous discrimination

With fast or slow SAT speed setting...

If the competition is better I pay them a tray of strawberries... grinning smiley (with a fast swing without noise)

Alexandre
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 03:24PM
Well I guess that answers the Question.smiling smiley

El
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 03:43PM
I'm sure I could get it at 14 inch's with the excalibur in PP and "MY" headphones. With the stock 10 inch coil and that would have to be with no noise for it would be a faint disruption which on the right beach I would stop for. I'm betting I could squeeze a few more inch's with MY head phones on the "AQ" once I got use to All Metal, and that is judging from the one video posted.

[www.youtube.com]


Notice at 30 seconds before the nail comes in to the picture its very faint, which is what tells me more can be pulled from the audio of the "AQ" In All metal only...from what I see of the video.

2019.....Gold rings..101..Misc/gold 9.....Silver/Sterling 249



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2019 03:55PM by OBN.
Re: Fisher Manta -
April 25, 2019 04:46PM
I don’t know any details of how LE.JAG hunts beyond what he has shared here. I have considered the issue of hunting in all metal and the value of a cross check in ID - in the case of the AQ in multitone or mute. Here’s my train of thought -

Consider the typical scenario as follows. You are using the AQ in all metal on a beach which does not have tons of ferrous junk (otherwise you might be in multitone or mute to avoid betting an ear bash). You get a solid signal, no “double blip” in all metal to tell you it’s probably a nail or other long object - you don’t feel like digging everything, so you switch to multitone - the signal breaks into multitone - it’s a high conductor - probably ferrous.

Now consider that it’s not so strong - because it is either small or it is deep. You switch to multitone and it goes away - oops. Guess you need to dig - it is in the zone of signal where the all metal sensitivity exceeds the sensitivity available in multitone. Now what? ... worst case it’s some ugly rusty lump deeper than multitone can ID. Well, take a scoop - or two - try again - likely, if it’s iron it will break into multitone.

Not so very different than techniques used by lots of folks with Excals or CZ’s.

UPDATE - Since I posted the above, Alexandre has posted 17” depth on a nickel in all modes - no practical depth penalty for discrimination. Hmmmmm.....

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2019 09:54PM by lytle78.
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 05:46PM
OBN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure I could get it at 14 inch's with the exca
> libur in PP and "MY" headphones. With the stock 10
> inch coil and that would have to be with no noise
> for it would be a faint disruption which on the ri
> ght beach I would stop for. I'm betting I could sq
> ueeze a few more inch's with MY head phones on the
> "AQ" once I got use to All Metal, and that is judg
> ing from the one video posted.
>
> [www.youtube.com]
>
>
> Notice at 30 seconds before the nail comes in to t
> he picture its very faint, which is what tells me
> more can be pulled from the audio of the "AQ" In A
> ll metal only...from what I see of the video.


on the beach ,
you have in addition the setting of the SAT
which will enormously play on the depth

I do not have nickel on my beaches
the deepest targets are still natural targets in place / for several years

the more compact the sand, the deeper the detection
we can not reproduce this effect on tests

I am going to look for old francs coins
which are nickel / has more than 17
same thing for 18k rings of less than 5 gr (I also use a big headphone / 30db)

and if I get there, you'll do the same ....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 08:09PM
Alexandre,

Thank You! THAT'S the kind of data that I (we) are seeking. 17" on a Nickel...….. regardless of Mode. And...… a non-ferrous ID on the Nickel at 17" in the wet-sand. A PI with ID …. all the way to maximum depth. (((Somewhere ….. I thought someone said that 10%-20% depth is lost when switched out of All Metal Mode))).
THANK YOU for this report!
Now...…………….. If only you could release the unit before 2020!
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 08:47PM
For this year yes
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 09:07PM
I read that Tom as well from a Facebook page....can’t remember his name ...but he worked the big out of the aquastar with Eric. I believe it was an established loss by some one he knew. I’d expect that to be close....but if there isn’t any lose on a processed disc beep this would be really good. Soooo are we saying....disc is as deep then on that nickel without having to do REVERSE disc? Also....battery life....it was said 5 hours per pack....still correct?
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 25, 2019 09:34PM
Dew, remember the bit you concluded in the other forum thread - about “discrimination”? It sounds like maybe you were right - and that they don’t stand still over there.

Remember, this isn’t the end of the road. The ambition and appetite for changing the status quo in detectordom on the part of the First Texas “Euroteam” is boundless. Beach detector - check. Nugget hunter - announced to be under active development. Further specialist machines finely tuned to do ONE job brilliantly - announced as a goal.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2019 10:42PM by lytle78.
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 26, 2019 02:52AM
LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
(I also use a big headphone / 30db) ........................Yes, Peltor/3m 30db with gel ear pads....

But this is Different,................... audio intensity of the Piezo (sound pressure).... Skullies allows you to hear targets others can't, only works with detectors that give you a 3 dimensional audio of the target. Size, Shape, Depth........ PP mod with Excalibur, Yes. Discriminate Mod..No....................And from what I can see, All metal with the "AQ"



2019.....Gold rings..101..Misc/gold 9.....Silver/Sterling 249



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2019 02:56AM by OBN.
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 26, 2019 10:44AM
OBN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> (I also use a big headphone / 30db) .............
> ...........Yes, Peltor/3m 30db with gel ear pads..
> ..
>
> But this is Different,................... audio in
> tensity of the Piezo (sound pressure).... Skullies
> allows you to hear targets others can't, only work
> s with detectors that give you a 3 dimensional aud
> io of the target. Size, Shape, Depth........ PP mo
> d with Excalibur, Yes. Discriminate Mod..No.......
> .............And from what I can see, All metal wi
> th the "AQ"
>
>


we must also take into account the audio output of the detector
his power
she's pretty weak on excalibur and 3030
will be more powerful on AQ to make up for the loss
with the water in the ears ...

or find your piezo skulie tube / it's hom made ??

I always thought that the ideal
would be a waterproof audio headset that keeps the ears dry
base on the PRO EAR helmet / it's possible

[www.youtube.com]

allows to descend to 60 m without decompression of the ear
but would be too expensive to produce for a detector ....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 26, 2019 11:12AM
That raised an eyebrow........ 17" on a nickel with proper non-ferrous ID..... 7uS. Was that on JAGs beach with all those minerals? I was expecting that 10% loss...... even at 15.... thats pretty crazy deep. I agree Joe, AM.... piezos they just give better modulation if the machine doesnt especially. YOu my friend are going to have to gear back up making those phones lol. I suggest we start going to the Gym too lol. Good to see they intend on getting it out this year. Does this machine air test well..... and how does it do on targets like gold earrings that are hollow and OPEN? Is it going to be tuned more as a RING machine ... or can we expect some very small gold in the wet sand like charms ect. that the Nox wont find?

Rick..... you posted 10 hours on a battery on the other forum...... were you wrong?
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 26, 2019 11:53AM
dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That raised an eyebrow........ 17" on a nickel wit
> h proper non-ferrous ID..... 7uS. Was that on JA
> Gs beach with all those minerals? I was expectin
> g that 10% loss...... even at 15.... thats pretty
> crazy deep. I agree Joe, AM.... piezos they just
> give better modulation if the machine doesnt espec
> ially. YOu my friend are going to have to gear b
> ack up making those phones lol. I suggest we sta
> rt going to the Gym too lol. Good to see they in
> tend on getting it out this year. Does this mach
> ine air test well..... and how does it do on targe
> ts like gold earrings that are hollow and OPEN? I
> s it going to be tuned more as a RING machine ...
> or can we expect some very small gold in the wet s
> and like charms ect. that the Nox wont find?
>
> Rick..... you posted 10 hours on a battery on the
> other forum...... were you wrong?



I think it is more efficient on the rings
the ring goes into resonance / a benefit for the pulse
the vlf is better on different shape and probably micro jewelry

note that I mainly hunt the bottom of foreshore
in search of heavy object / sort by the sea
on its areas there is no earring of 0.5gr ....

you have more luck in finding in the water
with a smaller coil AQ will probably do as well as equinox / on this type of target

but I think you'll be more busy with the big deep rings smiling smiley

there are two battery packs planned
a small and a bigger one (10h)
note: the upgrade may increase the detection time
that too is to confirm ...
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 26, 2019 12:19PM
Tell me the 10 hour one comes with the machine buddy. We have a much much smaller wet sand area here in the gulf than on the other side of the island where Tom is. We also have a long period of replenished recent drops....and very low minerals. So 7uS should run as good as it gets. I’m also pleased he hasn’t stopped tweaking the disc and battery life. Thanks.
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 27, 2019 05:23PM
LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OBN Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LE.JAG Wrote:
> > ------------------------------------------------
> --
> >
> we must also take into account the audio output of
> the detector
> his power
> she's pretty weak on excalibur and 3030....................Due to the stock water proof headphones
> will be more powerful on AQ to make up for the los
> s
> with the water in the ears ...
>
> or find your piezo skulie tube / it's hom made ??..........................Yes.....Like AQ, many years of experimenting, testing, then in water hunting
>
> I always thought that the ideal
> would be a waterproof audio headset that keeps the
> ears dry
> base on the PRO EAR helmet / it's possible................................I like!
>
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> allows to descend to 60 m without decompression of
> the ear
> but would be too expensive to produce for a detect...............Yes, expensive to produce. But easy to make. ...
> or ....Made for diver to put under neoprene hood.


Once I purchase a "AQ" I will show you the weakness of stock headphones on the "AQ"

2019.....Gold rings..101..Misc/gold 9.....Silver/Sterling 249
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 27, 2019 05:59PM
Excited by all of these updates. Can't wait to see a release date. Just wish it would of been this spring. I think Fisher knows this needs to be done right, no rush job. The CZ21 was a beast compared to the Excal - just a tank. Let's hope that continues with the AQ.

_________________________________

Nox600, CTX, CZ21, Excal II and White's DF with 920i stealthscoop...I live and hunt at the beach in Wilm NCsmiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2019 06:01PM by adamBomb.
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 27, 2019 06:45PM
You mentioned water in the ears... but the AQ is going to be a limited 1meter depth right? Joe knows his stuff I’ve been lucky to have some of his phones to include test others. I do mine a little different....CTX May have weak audio but I don’t believe the Xcal dies unless you were talking diving with them. In that case there are only a couple machines you cans do that with...sothe air bubbles and pressure can be a big factor....and would be on most.
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 27, 2019 08:20PM
Thanks OBN for answers

+ the initial project provides 5 meters
I can tell you now, it was planned to fill the box
a special gel / destined to counter the pressure
and put the electronics at the shelter of any leak

this version (heavier) is in stand-by
for reasons of production costs Fisher only want one model

we do not abandon the idea of 5 meters
and sooner or later this version will come up with
on AQ or another to manta technology ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
April 27, 2019 08:49PM
Figuring 13lbs of pressure for 30’. I suspect at 5 meters pressure is minimal with IP68 and some of that gel. It’s a mater of space for the piezo to move ....maybe a sealed casing nearer the ear is better. But honestly....the majority of hunters rarely snorkel even to 10 ft

Alexandre.......so are we looking at sensitivity to about that of the Nox on small gold ....... and as high as a penny..... which 24K wouldnt fall into but wrap around to iron? Are we loosing EVERYTHING.... to include coins then above a penny when in disc? Is there any down sizing....... where 24K because of depth ... minerals and size would change their abilit to be seen below the penny?

It appears we will see the machine this year...... wonder if they will wait until Detectival for their release....kind of steal a little thunder from the sponsor? This could be an interesting event between Fisher, ML and Nakta......i mean as a company ya gotta show up with something.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 09:47AM by dewcon4414.
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 03, 2019 05:01PM
It would be a grave mistake if First Texas does not have NASA-Tom on the Impulse prototype project.

Aaron

The Future is ANALOG...
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 05, 2019 11:31AM
Im still a little concerned about that depth rating...... and the hype...... and the release date. Testing....... i agree Aaron Toms involvement during this period could change some of those just mentioned. Those pictures of the sand JAG hunts in means some of us ......like us here in Fl would get CRAZY deep depth on a nickel.
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 05, 2019 01:13PM
Dew. Lots of us are concerned about the fact that we expected a release of production units before now - no question about that. Also, the depth is VERY unlikely to be insufficient.

But I have to wonder What “hype” are you referring to. I don’t know your working definition of the word, but here’s a pretty standard one...

From the Urban dictionary...

A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.

Since I’m the guy who posted the first notice of the Manta Project two years ago on various forums, I think I’m in a position to question your use of the word hype. In fact, I think it’s is way overused on the forums, but that’s another matter.

My intention was and it remains to share whatever releasable information I come across about the Manta Project - now the Fisher AQ.

I have no “marketing strategy” (I wish I did!). It is not correct that “the product is advertised”. I think I at least have stated several times that it’s a very specialized machine for dedicated beach gold jewelry hunters, so clearly, it’s not correct that it is “the thing everyone must have”

Having gotten that off my chest (thanks for listening), I freely admit to having been extremely interested in and enthused about this new platform. I have been fascinated by PI detectors ever since the mid ‘80’s when I got a used Eric Fisher early beach PI and played with it in Norway where we were living at the time.

As of this week, we’re back in Norway for two months and I am VERY sad to say that the only detector I brought along was an elderly Sovereign modded by Keith Southern - there being no AQ’s yet. So, I too suffer from “AQ deprivation syndrome” lol

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2019 01:17PM by lytle78.
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 05, 2019 04:42PM
I think you summed up hype pretty well take it for what its worth. By the way Frank started this thread not you so lets give credit to him. I dont care what word you use buddy...... throw gas on the fire....feed the frenzy.... if you prefer....but any company likes word of mouth..... especially BEFORE a machine is released. I appreciate passion...... i had it for the Nox since it seems to bring everything needed that we had asked for in a possible great beach machine. Turned out it has been...... thou i had hopes of a bit more sensitivity on the small gold in the wet sand. Its still proven its self. This machine may well do this as well.......i mean we've seen BIG gold right? We have picked at this machine with our questions...... and gotten some good answers..... maybe even made um rethink a few things. I believe nows the perfect time to do that dont you? We have a guy involved for what 5 years, we have Carl....... and Alexandre..... giving us bits and pieces..... depths...... disc from a PI...... what it might and might not do on various K gold. Speculation....... we are already seeing that on the alledged new ML ...... you think thats a bad thing? Im not certain this .... we got one coming ....information is just said then they expect us to wait a year or two not talk about it and bang here it is. There are no facts yet to me...... so what do we call this.... hype always seems to fit. Im not picking on you again Rick...... but we do seem like to debate lol.
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 05, 2019 04:51PM
You have me pegged Dew. I find something which “sticks” and I have to comment - needless to say my wife finds it especially irritating.

We both get excited at the prospect of a new tool to make one particular job more effective. I guess I am a bit sensitive to the implied idea that my enthusiasm is some kind of marketing malarkey - my enthusiasm is entirely genuine and entirely innocent of commercial motivation.

Mind you, when this train starts rolling out of the station, with the AQ and then the “Terra” and then maybe something quite revolutionary - well, I might not be able to resist in joining the flock of folks which would like to help my pals with new toys and make beer money in the process. Of course then there is all the suffering that our current dealer friends have to put up with.


For now, I’m in it for the thrills - and I hope there are lots of these on the way.

And you, Dew, you do a lot to keep me on my toes - thanks fo that.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 05, 2019 05:53PM
dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im still a little concerned about that depth ratin
> g...... and the hype...... and the release date.
> Testing....... i agree Aaron Toms involvement duri
> ng this period could change some of those just men
> tioned. Those pictures of the sand JAG hunts in
> means some of us ......like us here in Fl would ge
> t CRAZY deep depth on a nickel.


it's not hype yet
just some ad on the possibility of the machine ....

the big circus will start
when the first detectors, will distribute
and that the first users
are going to start aligning piles of gold
as they have never done before
(provided you play the games / and show all that you go find)

there you will have a hype
because, what will not have it yet: will want it

for your nickel
in a very compact sand
you will not be far from 20 inches (all metals)

as announce at the beginning of this thread
with AQ you will have to learn
to give up targets and you will do it so deep it is

some stuff to pick up with AQ
it // it's advertisingwinking smiley



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detector used : Fisher Aquamanta /

Pulsepower Goldscan 5c / Aquastar / Goldquest SSV3 / Nexus Coronado / Vista Gold
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 05, 2019 06:04PM
Hey Dew - maybe it is (just a little hype!!!) I so distrust premature excitement. But LE.JAG has been using the successive prototypes for at least 5 years. With Alexandre and his team now free to do this work full time as First Texas employees, it seems like the pace must have (naturally) accelerated compared when they were doing it for love in their spare time - FULL DISCLOSURE - this is my speculation only.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2019 06:05PM by lytle78.
OBN
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 06, 2019 04:27AM
LE.JAG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

start aligning piles of gold
> as they have never done before................winking smiley
> (provided you play the games / and show all tha
> t you go find
)
>

>

> to give up targets and you will do it so deep it is..............................It's those I am after
> ......................................................................
>
>

I really don't see it doing as well where I have hammered, over and over. But I do see it finishing off these spots to where there is very little left. Which is just what I want, deep, deep, deep.



2019.....Gold rings..101..Misc/gold 9.....Silver/Sterling 249
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 06, 2019 04:30AM
Holly c#$ ,outstanding.
Re: New Fisher Manta
May 06, 2019 08:07AM
OBN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LE.JAG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> start aligning piles of gold
> > as they have never done before................winking smiley
> > (provided you play the games / and show all t
> ha
> > t you go find
)
> >
>
> >
>
> > to give up targets and you will do it so deep it
> is.............................[color=
> #FF0000].It's those I am after[/color][/size]
> > ................................................
> ......................
> >
> >
>
> [size=large][color=#FF0000]I really don't see it d
> oing as well where I have hammered, over and over.
> But I do see it finishing off these spots to where
> there is very little left. Which is just what I wa
> nt, deep, deep, deep.[/color][/size]
>
> [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/9a4ins.jpg[/IMG]


motivating photo thumbs downthumbs down
I could have put a little more (over 5 years)
but I sell gold too often ....

the depth is really there
I have never seen anything deeper on a gold ring smileys with beer
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