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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 11:01AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Pimento! I had a hunch on this; yet, somew
> hat unfounded. All-hands need to 'beware'.

Before I got into metal detecting some 8 years ago, I was infatuated with flashlights, batteries, and battery chargers. Here is a LINK to a forum that discusses batteries and battery chargers at the CandlePowerForums site. These guys go on and on about flashlights and batteries like we do metal detectors. If anyone wants to know something about batteries or flashlights, this site is the place to look. Their members take flashlights and batteries more seriously than we do metal detecting if that's even possible.

tabman
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 01:41PM
Quote:"a contactless charging system to prevent a short circuit if the toothbrush is wet"
It's not to prevent electrical mishaps/'short circuits', all you need is something as simple as a 2 cent diode in series with one of the charging contacts to stop any current flowing 'out' of the toothbrush. ( actually: out of one terminal, back into the other)
This is normal practice on any similar system, plus it's common to add other protection components: a self-resetting fuse (polyfuse); a low value series resistor ( to limit current flow ); occasionally a proper 'wire' fuse, sometimes a one-time thermal fuse very close to the battery itself, (for real disaster scenarios).
And modern sophisticated electronic gadgets would normally have electronics particular to the lithium battery, like over-voltage detection, over-discharge detection, an electronic temperature sensor on the battery, + more.
Contacts are not favoured because they can corrode. If they are gold-plated, they will still corrode, the plating will wear/scratch. Stainless steel and titanium are both corrosion-resistant, but Ti has an oxide film on it, making it difficult to make electrical contact to, and SS is similar.
And contacts can become contaminated by dirt, toothpaste debris etc.
Plus the charger side has the same issues.

That Candlepower forum is one place I look for battery info, they really are very nerdy about things. A lot of 'preppers' on there, too, they can be a serious bunch as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2018 03:55PM by Pimento.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 02:00PM
Thats right ....... the AquaSound uses that one way current and has for years. I happen to notice it when i tried to test the batteries that are sealed inside the box. Some of you tech sort really should look at the AquaSound. When Tindell of Nautilus did the machine for McDonalds use in salt water back in the day it had to be impressive and a head of its time... even by todays standard.... single freq working in the water. The waterproof coil and phone connectors, 14Khz, knobs for salt water balance (done IN THE WATER), knobs for GB, boost, loud on or off, 24 dcv, headphones that leave your ears ringing. Today ..... if it was upgraded (coil and ability to handle black sand) it would still be very very competitive even against a PI.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 03:05PM
Yes "+" side of battery goes deep into (face-first) the battery compartment. ((( I call it: Positive-First ))). I have a Nikon camera..... and a few other devices that have the battery polarity label that appears to be somewhat ambiguous. It can be difficult to draw a 3-D diagram..... onto a 2-D plane.

TNSS...… You can post your MDT data on your own threads if you want; yet, (I was simply implicating) that I may answer/respond on THIS thread...… so as to have MDT continuity here.

One of my biggest concerns (as with ANY device)……. is...…. yes, it'll take time for folks to figure out "best performance" of the Tarsacci (or any detector) …….. via its available settings...…. in your specific application and environment. Regardless of the brand or device...…. it'll take some time.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 03:11PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes "+" side of battery goes deep into (face-first
> ) the battery compartment. ((( I call it: Positive
> -First ))). I have a Nikon camera..... and a few
> other devices that have the battery polarity label
> that appears to be somewhat ambiguous. It can be d
> ifficult to draw a 3-D diagram..... onto a 2-D pla
> ne.
>
> TNSS...… You can post your MDT data on your own th
> reads if you want; yet, (I was simply implicating)
> that I may answer/respond on THIS thread...… so as
> to have MDT continuity here.
>
> One of my biggest concerns (as with ANY device)…….
> is...…. yes, it'll take time for folks to figure o
> ut "best performance" of the Tarsacci (or any dete
> ctor) …….. via its available settings...…. in your
> specific application and environment. Regardless o
> f the brand or device...…. it'll take some time.


Tom,
I may comment in here occasionally if I see or hear something I feel you can address for me and other folks.

My thread here certainly NOT meant to be a competitive thread to this one.
My thread may cover what some here may feel is more remedial as far as using and testing a detector.
But by doing some folks may see this and can draw an overall better conclusion about the detector.
Like is it too complicated for them to operate, and or can the detector actually help them in the field trying to locate some targets other detectors may or may not do.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2018 03:55PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 04:02PM
Something worth mentioning with the Tarsacci:

The Ground Balance & Salt Balance settings will be different for each individual frequency. For example: If you Ground Balance and Salt Balance the Tarsacci on each individual frequency whilst at the beach...…. the unit will remember these settings when you turn the unit off. Sooooooo……. next time you go to the wet-salt beach...… all the frequencies and correlating Grnd Bal & Salt Bal settings will be 'set'. It's possible...… but I doubt the settings will need to be changed slightly...… if even at all.,.,.,.,.,.,., each time you go back to the beach.
All this holds true for inland dirt hunting also.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 04:37PM
I still have a concern I hope you can clarify Tom about the salt balance. I will be hunting the wet sand but for the short term will be staying out of the water. My interpretation is you can balance to the "mineral/hot rock that is going to be in your beach/mineral. So with your experience if I want to balance to the wet sand no need to go into the surf unless going there? I see myself doing so at the wettest part just as tide reveres but plan on playing with that on planted rings and other know targets.

Something Tom mention in a PM thought he wouldn't mind me sharing on dealing with iron on a new to you MD:

Yes, I have one gold filling from a tooth! Interesting to find...… and they sort of DON'T look like gold..... due to the jagged (and possibly discolored) shape. With any new unit....... digging anything/everything at first..... is good practice. Especially if you dig a lit of iron. It is critical that you build 'trust'..... ESPECIALLY in the department of 'iron'. Will the unit ID iron properly? Can I trust the unit to ID iron properly? Are there any nuances/quirks in the ID of iron? Once you build 'trust' in the units ability to ID iron...… then...…. you can focus on the non-ferrous range. This has been my practice. (((Hmmmmmm….. I should have posted this response!)))
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 06:01PM
Salt does not change much. Set it once and it should be fairly good. There is a recommended base setting in the manual. I have not seen much problem where I hunt and not changed it going to inland hunting and checking better or worse or no change toggling Black Sand and leaving Salt alone.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Tarsacci MDT 8000, an Equinox 800, Deus/ORX & others...
with my brilliant Corgi, Sadie
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 07:12PM
In the interest of continuity I thought it best to post this in this thread. Tom and Wally, feel free to move it wherever you see fit.

My MDT arrived today and my first thought was the box it was shipped in is awfully small. I'm normally cynical and don't get too excited when waiting for a new gadget to arrive especially when there isn't a lot of info floating around the web to give me an idea of what to expect. However, upon opening the box I was pleasantly surprised.

The detector was packaged in a lightweight yet seemingly sturdy backpack with the company name on it's front. There are water bottle holders on the sides and a few extra pockets both internal and external to hold whatever small items you may need while you're out. This is a nice touch since other manufacturers make you pay for a carrying case/bag.

The two batteries while not charged do come in their own re-usable case for storage and transport. The charger seems to be of good quality and can also be used as a car charger with the purchase of a 12v cable. The included headphones and the headphone adapter also appear to be of good quality. I'll have to wait for the batteries to charge to find out how they sound.

I've been a Mechanical/Design Engineer for the majority of my adult life. As such I've been involved in the prototyping and development of more products than I can remember. Having said that, the fit and finish of the MDT-8000 is superior to any detector I've ever seen. Without a set of calipers to measure them the tolerances for the carbon fiber shaft sections appear to be in the sub 0.002" range which puts them just shy of an interference fit. This means that after a hundred hours or so of use, when they get broken in, they will more than likely fit together the way other manufacturer's shafts fit when they're new rather than having a lot of play in them. I'll also add that when you get down to the +/-0.001 range of finish tolerances the cost of each part starts to increase dramatically. Judging by these tight tolerances it seems no expense was spared in the manufacture of the MDT. It's been mentioned previously but the shaft's locking collars are like none I've seen on a metal detector. They're all but infinitely adjustable and make for a solid lockup between shaft sections. The surface of all the CF shaft sections to include the handgrip and battery compartment are a smooth black satin finish.

The fit of the coil to the shaft is also nice and snug even before tightening the coil bolt thanks to two triple layered rubber washers one on each side of the shaft. The coil looks small to me. I think it's due to the narrowness of each component. Be that as it may, the coil is rigid and seems to be well built. The included scuff plate fits securely to the coil. Having said that, while mounting the scuff plate I noticed a small gap that is left in the center of the coil. If I push on the center of the scuff plate it moves roughly 1/16" before coming in contact with the bottom of the coil. I doubt this will pose a problem but thought it worth mentioning.

I've owned/own the flagship detectors of most every brand that I'm aware of and the fit and finish of the MDT-8000 is superior to all of them.

If you guys are interested I'll try and post some pictures in a little while. It's chilly and pouring down rain here and even though the MDT is supposedly waterproof I no longer am so any test garden and hunt reviews are going to have to wait for clearer skies.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2018 07:51PM by Chris Woods.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 07:46PM
As an elder statesman on this subject let me say, first, "Amen!" and second, don't scrimp on FULLY charging the batteries before using. I'd swear it takes longer to do the first time then than it does there after, but it may be new toy anxiety...

Past(or)Tom
Using a Tarsacci MDT 8000, an Equinox 800, Deus/ORX & others...
with my brilliant Corgi, Sadie
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 08:50PM
Received unit.
This is how it is packed.
Pics taken with iPad mini
Quality of pics could be lacking vs how this detector really looks here in the pics -fit and finish wise



Headphones and pig tail



Coil and coil cover



Control unit with upper and lower rods



Pic of back of control head



Charger box with batteries (2) inside



Charger and batteries



Backpack





Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2018 09:26PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 09:40PM
Chris Woods Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having said that, while mounting t
> he scuff plate I noticed a small gap that is left
> in the center of the coil. If I push on the center
> of the scuff plate it moves roughly 1/16" before c
> oming in contact with the bottom of the coil. I do
> ubt this will pose a problem but thought it worth
> mentioning.

Chris,
I noticed on mine that the coil cover had an excess amount of injection plastic left on the inside, in the form of an 1/8" tall sprue in the very center.
I just used a sharp wood chisel to carefully remove this excess material, and it helped a lot with the fit against the bottom of the coil.

I did, however, have to very slightly bevel the sharp inside edges of the cover to allow it to fit onto the coil.
The cover is sturdy enough not to allow much flex, so fitting it on the first time can be a bear.
...I've seen this before with many other brands, so it's not unique to the MDT.

My first impression of the build was one of extreme strength/sturdiness...this thing should last quite a while...at least as far as the mechanical parts.
(Only time will tell with the electronics portion.)

mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2018 09:53PM by Mike in CO.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 09:59PM
Headphones look comfortable. How does that grip feel? I can see me putting a wrap on it. I think the name could be a bit larger on the faceplate. lol Will need a screen protector and cuff strap. Nice shiny bobble you have. I will have mine soon. Hoping Santa gets me a new pair of waders.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 10:06PM
SN,
Headphones fit my big head perfectly when extended all the way out...with no pressure/hot spots.

Grip feels great to me. Good angle/size. Reminds me of some classic firearms grip angle.

mike
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 10:07PM
Does it actually fit in that rucksack/backpack when fully disassembled ?
Is that a wing-nut on the coil-fixing bolt ? I feel that's a potential source of trouble - guaranteed someone will over-tighten that at some point.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 10:21PM
Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does it actually fit in that rucksack/backpack whe
> n fully disassembled ?
> Is that a wing-nut on the coil-fixing bolt ? I fee
> l that's a potential source of trouble - guarantee
> d someone will over-tighten that at some point.


Yes all fits in backpack. How it is shipped. Except for charger and batteries in box.

Looks like a person might get 2 units in the back pack. Don’t have 2 to try though. Lol

Video coming in a while as far as components with comments.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2018 10:27PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 10:59PM
Pasttom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As an elder statesman on this subject let me say,
> first, "Amen!" and second, don't scrimp on FULLY c
> harging the batteries before using. I'd swear it
> takes longer to do the first time then than it doe
> s there after, but it may be new toy anxiety...

PT,
Yeah, the batteries take forever to charge from a depleted state.

The battery is (rated at) 5,000mAh, and the charger is 500ma.
That means the absolute best charge time from empty (assuming a non-existent 100% transfer rate) is at least...a minimum...of 10 full hours!

So yeah, don't expect a piddling 2 or 4 hour charge the first time.
Since the charger tapers off to trickle automatically, I'd suggest expecting an overnight charge the first time.

mike
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 15, 2018 11:13PM
Short video on components.
[m.youtube.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:01AM
Thanks for the video tnsharpshooter. Now, who will be first with some test garden tests? smiling smiley
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:03AM
Yes Pimento, that's a wing nut on the coil bolt. You're going to really have to crank on it in order to break it. Even if you manage to do so, they've put an extra set in the box.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:11AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something worth mentioning with the Tarsacci:
>
> The Ground Balance & Salt Balance settings will be
> different for each individual frequency. For examp
> le: If you Ground Balance and Salt Balance the Tar
> sacci on each individual frequency whilst at the b
> each...…. the unit will remember these settings wh
> en you turn the unit off. Sooooooo……. next time yo
> u go to the wet-salt beach...… all the frequencies
> and correlating Grnd Bal & Salt Bal settings will
> be 'set'. It's possible...… but I doubt the settin
> gs will need to be changed slightly...… if even at
> all.,.,.,.,.,.,., each time you go back to the bea
> ch.
> All this holds true for inland dirt hunting also.

Wow, what great feature that is! I know we’re going to take a little time to verify the settings initially, but it sounds like this will be a real time saver after we’ve had a chance to put some hours on the Tarsacci.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:21AM
Checked connecting both pigtail for headphones and coil connector.

Coil connector on control keyed on top, is more or less idiot proof for proper alignment.

Pigtail connector not as idiot proof. Pigtail when properly keyed and screwed up will extend straight down beside handle. See this pic, detector laying on its left side.

Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:43AM
What changes on the programs between salt water and what tnsharp got?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:51AM
The wonders of electro-chemistry mean that charging a 5000mAh cell at 500mA will take about 14 hours. Charge current tends to drop off over the last few hours, it's typically a constant current flow until the cell voltage reaches 3.7 V, then that voltage is maintained while the remaining juice goes in, during which time it naturally takes a reduced current flow.
New cells do take a couple of cycles of charge/discharge to 'bed-in' , so don't expect 100% out the box.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 01:13AM
Chris -- Gimme a shout some time this week or next. We'll take it for a spin on some hot dirt bullets. After the 21st I am off til after New Years. All we need is for this rain to go away.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 03:00AM
Took my batteries 3 hours 10 minutes to charge fully. I don’t know how charged they were prior to charging.

Here’s a real short video at night to show backlight.
Also I make some preliminary comments on tones of detector in video.

[m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2018 03:03AM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 03:18AM
Will do Daniel. I'm beginning to wonder if the rain is going to stop. As I was backstroking out of my driveway this afternoon I saw my neighbor building what looks like a large wooden boat while his wife was wrangling all kinds of animals. Now that I think about they were all in pairs.....
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 04:43AM
What is the price of the detector?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:31PM
I don't understand why it comes with headphones and a backpack.

Most of us already have those things. Anyone who doesn't have them can easily get them, and that way they would better fit the preferences of the individual.

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2018 12:59PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
December 16, 2018 12:50PM
I have hunted in Culpeper since the early 80's. Would love to borrow a test unit if one is available. It may go along way to help promote sales if the detector can work in Virginia's iron belt. Remember I can prove it's not just the dirt that is the main problem here. The iron bedrock that comes close to the surface must be eliminated while using discrimination. Please PM if interested. Information will be shared with the OEM. I have tested several samples from different manufacturers. Thank you for your consideration.
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