ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

In general........the Tarsacci is above-average in EMI handling/mitigation; yet, certainly not immune.
Yes.........changing Freq's is the first step in reducing EMI.
Reducing Threshold & Sensitivity .......is the last thing you want to do; yet is the next step/requirement to reduce EMI.

Worst EMI offenders for any brand detector: Underground power wires.

Noticed a couple interesting bits of information while hunting yesterday:
The unit I'm using does not save the GB settings between the frequencies. I went through these frequencies multiple times and each carries the GB of the prior frequency settings.
Not a problem for me.
This unit has a revision of 1 "R1", no idea how many revisions there might be.
Thought I would hunt a while without SB enabled and noticed I was digging a lot more pieces of foil that gave a good tone. Enabling SB and these deep trashy items would break up after a few coils sweeps. Nice.
Starting to hear the difference in iron false tones. Nice.
Even if you get a good tone one way, 2-3 more sweeps over the target reveals its true nature.


One thing for sure, if the ground has ever been moved, the GB will be a lot less than compacted dirt "what we call field dirt in Virginia"
Confidence in this detector is growing with each hunt.

Steve, Your "progress reports" are encouraging.
Each frequency selection saves it's own Ground balance and Salt balance numbers even after powering down. This makes it very easy to change frequency on the fly over a suspect target or to deal with the ebb & flow of a location's EMI. Of course you have to invest the time to set up each one for the site but it is worth the trouble. It is also very nice to be able to shut the unit down to take a break and the be able to fire it back up and immediately start hunting again.
Salt Balance not only negates small Al & foil, it also helps with conductive rusty ground. A proper Salt Balance will give you the best & most stable TID.
Keep hunting & posting.
Thanks,

Chris

Mark......... you are (enduring) transitioning through a painful learning-curve. It'll pay off......in a huge way.
Currently........ I am transitioning through a painful learning-curve with Manticore....... by dropping iron breakpoint (Ferrous Limits - Upper & Ferrous Limits - Lower) down to 3 & 3. This is a psychotic level to hunt with...... in carpets of nails; yet, ..... is proving to be very rewarding. I am just simply wondering when I will hit the "point-of-no-return" (..... the law of diminishing returns) on: LOWEST breakpoint setting...........VS..........additional unmasking attributes.
I remember a couple of years ago...... TRYING to employ: Upper = 5 and Lower = 4..............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...............and completely having the INABILITY to handle those settings. A couple of years later....... I am employing: Upper = 3 and Lower = 3! This POSITIVELY validates = It IS a genuine LEARNING-CURVE!!! skillset. The detector has NOT changed.,.,.,.,.,., but/rather....... the 'skillset' (and tolerance level) of the operator HAS changed.

Yes....... coming out of the SALT Mode on Tarsacci .... DOES allow it to be more sensitive to small and/or low conductors......... (of which: most jewelry conductively resides). You CAN use SALT Mode to practically see through some chewing gum foil.....and detect a silver dime well beneath the foil !!! Use wisely!!! Mark...... if you are in fairly bad dirt........ the Tarsacci will continue to teach you.......and surprise you. Can you endure......and catch-on...... to its nuances/clues!!! ((( If you are use to hunting in bad dirt........ chances are = you'll catch-on at a MUCH faster rate ))).
The KEY to 'bad-dirt-success' is....... sweep the coil at 1/2-speed!.....especially with Tarsacci. Do NOT violate this (electronic) rule/requirement!.......again = especially in fairly bad dirt!

Spent well over an hour yesterday evening trying to quieten down the machine with absolutely no success.
Went through each frequency, sensitivity 5, GB.
Adjusted threshold and nothing helped.
SB through the entire range of options, could never get a quiet setting, nothing helped.
Turned on Black sand, no help there.
Screen displayed random numbers, EMI at the worse of any machine I've ever had.
Adjusted the GB up and down, no good.
Now I could reduce the sensitivity to 2 and this helped but the machine couldn't not detect a 4" dime in the ground. No joys here.
Increased the sens back to 5 and could only randomly get an audio on the 4" dime.
This is my 3rd trip to this site in and attempt to hunt. Most successful was the TDI SL with the 7 1/2" coil.
This is the area I've always talked about, being the bad, coke waste school.
Big difference between silent and auditable EMI. EMI completely shuts down this machine.


Only remedy was to move 50 yards away. Leaves a lot of questions.

That truly is a bad spot. Any idea of the source of the EMI?

Chris

Three horizontal power lines some 20' from school property. It's so odd to see the ID numbers randomly display whether the coil is in motion or not. Never hear any EMI audio noise through the head phones. I had another location that gave similar results in 9 Khz but changing to 12 remedied it quickly. But that doesn't prove EMI was not affecting the detector, even after changing frequency.

A source of silent EMI.

Which coil is this? The 12?
Do you have a different coil? The stock coil and 12" coil?
If so....... is the problem the same with either coil?

I was using the stock coil. I also have the 12" but not tried in that area. I'll revisit the location and try both coils the same evening and see what happens. Thanks

It still sounds like EMI; yet/but......... worth the test/try/measurement.

Revisited the site this afternoon. Took the Tarsacci with both coils. The 12" coil is much worse, had both types of EMI. With the stock coil I had silent, random ID numbers flashing continually. With the 12" coil I had both random ID numbers and audio tones. Experimented again but this time I combined more than one settings. Finally settled down enough to actually detect the 4" dime. Threshold -4, sensitivity 5.
Also took the Equinox 800, as a second test. Awful interference.
Went through all the programs and did a noise cancel. No joy.
Went through each frequency and noise cancel. No joy.
Went back to Beach 2 program because it is suppose to be reduced transmit power for salt water hunting. No joy.
Switched back to the best program I could find and reduced the sensitivity to 15, a lot quieter but could only get an iron audio on the 4" dime.
PP on the Equinox could find the dime no problem.
Never actually tried the prospecting mode, just to much added noise.
Well anyway, I gained back some of the painful confidence I had in the Tarsacci.
Wondering if there was a leaking transformer on one of the power poles. Just thinking.

Some sites are just bad. May be a weekend early morning may be better.

Chris

Mark..... that really sounds like a bad EMI site!
And....... if the EQX is ID'ing a 4" dime as 'iron'....... that's high-mineralization. If EMI can be mitigated...... Tarsacci should perform better. , . , . , . , to include: ID the dime better.

markg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Revisited the site this afternoon. Took the Tarsa
> cci with both coils. The 12" coil is much worse,
> had both types of EMI. With the stock coil I had
> silent, random ID numbers flashing continually. W
> ith the 12" coil I had both random ID numbers and
> audio tones. Experimented again but this time I c
> ombined more than one settings. Finally settled d
> own enough to actually detect the 4" dime. Thresh
> old -4, sensitivity 5.
> Also took the Equinox 800, as a second test. Awfu
> l interference.
> Went through all the programs and did a noise canc
> el. No joy.
> Went through each frequency and noise cancel. No
> joy.
> Went back to Beach 2 program because it is suppose
> to be reduced transmit power for salt water huntin
> g. No joy.
> Switched back to the best program I could find and
> reduced the sensitivity to 15, a lot quieter but c
> ould only get an iron audio on the 4" dime.
> PP on the Equinox could find the dime no problem.
> Never actually tried the prospecting mode, just to
> much added noise.
> Well anyway, I gained back some of the painful con
> fidence I had in the Tarsacci.
> Wondering if there was a leaking transformer on on
> e of the power poles. Just thinking.

Interesting, I talked to one of the power company technicians yesterday and he stated the power lines I mentioned above were in fact 3 phase.
Now instead of 1 source of EMI I 3 to contend with, each peaking at a different moment in time.

BUT....... all three of the different phases........ ALL produce the exact same FREQUENCY & AMPLITUDE of EMI. So......... in a nutshell .........the (any brand) detector merely has to try and mitigate/contend with only one interfering/offensive culprit.

Isn't the Tarsacci MDT about 5 years old now? Has anything new come from the Tarsacci Company?

Kingfish......... No.
(((At least....... not yet))).
The Tarsacci may be getting old; yet, it is not outdated. It is still (by far)...... one of the best (if not: the best) units for mineralized dirt hunting. I know Dimitar is always working on new stuff. The company is (quietly) doing well.
((( I wish I could say the same for Fisher & Nokta ))).

I wonder if anyone has heard anything, regarding possible new technology (new machine, or an updated version of the 8000)?

There's no doubt that the machine has some unique capabilities, but the lack of VDI accuracy in particular, in my dirt, rendered it largely unusable for my type of detecting. However, building upon what is there, with some form of greatly improved VDI/ID capability, would CERTAINLY pique my interest...

Any news?

Steve

steveg Wrote:
>
> There's no doubt that the machine has some unique
> capabilities, but the lack of VDI accuracy in part
> icular, in my dirt, rendered it largely unusable f
> or my type of detecting.
>
The Tarsacci needs better tones, or, programmable tones. When I'm detecting a silver coin, I want a high tone, not a blurp.

Bayard -- agreed. Better tones are also needed...

I am overdue to give Dimitar a call. Yes....... he (and small crew) absolutely has new concepts/stuff. But........ is it enough for them to feel it is a big enough 'change'..... to quantify/justify a = release.

Agree with the need for better ID. But........... two things =
1. Even just a 10% increase in ID accuracy....... over the existing platform......... would be a formidable gain. As of right now...... ID accuracy is approx 70%. If it could be jumped up to 80%.,.,.,. this would be formidable.
2. The Tarsacci's specific electronic architect (ID methodology) of the Operating System........ does not (can not....... to the best of my limited knowledge) lend itself to any formidable increase of ID accuracy. Remember...... it's not quite a VLF-based platform.

I don't own one but I've been really interested in the tarsacci. However I've watched a bunch of videos and the tones are the main reason why I won't buy the current version.

It does need a new version with the ability to update the software. Also didn't notice the ability to adjust the recovery speed so it could use that as well.

Hello to The MDT defence i shall i say i had no problem with the Tones dug all stuff above 0 and had some nice finds,bought it used the guy found enough gold ot sell it to me at a good price.

Found lots of cool stuff with it and enough Gold to pay for it and the large coil.

I found deep stuff actually very deep and really enjoyed it.

Sold it to a frenchman and he happy with it and his beaches are completly different than mine



RR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2023 09:17PM by Rivers rat.

Demitar asked for suggestions some time back and several were posted to Steve Hs page. He spoiled us when that video came out with new tones. I put a lot of man hours on my machine. The middle shaft wore to where the lock wouldn’t hold it….. BUT SteveG came out with a GREAT shaft replacement that was thinner and his locks were first rate. Another issue I had was the button face…. all the color faded off. I doubt many will have this issue. He upgraded the battery box thou I never had an issue… I even had a small amount of salt water get in with NO damage. Those batteries…. Like never go bad and are as easy as changing a flashlight. I never really cared for deep iron wrapping around kind of like the old Whites DFX to the high tones. Wasn’t a big deal when looking for gold…. But dirt digging takes a little more effort. So ya a bit of target ID would help. There’s been a lot of improvements by a couple of companies….he could do well if he added some of those options. Making adjustments…. should stay on until you hit the button again. I’m not a big PP user so IM opinion the button could be smaller or the screen reworked. Upper shaft angle could be changed a bit. Did he ever change the angle of the headphone connector? I had Tony change mine when he did the headphones. I broke an ear or two and Demitar was kind enough to repair them and move the ears to the center of the coil … never a problem after that. Big coil was a nice addition thou I liked the standard with the adjustment he made for me. With the hours I did and the salt water this things a tank. I’ve moved back to Indiana in June and frankly haven’t had the time to research areas to hunt.

All good points Dew. For me, a more angled control head for better line of sight & button access. The tones need more spread between the mid & high. Being able to separately adjust the AM channel volume would be a huge benefit as would stereo mixed mode. Maybe an adjustable Iron bias/Black Sand. The greatest improvement for me would be a detailed Users Manual giving detailed explanations of each feature & adjustment. Especially Salt Balance, the extended(hidden) Ground Balance, Black Sand, Threshold & Sensitivity. Examples of control use suggestions for various ground conditions also included. The manual for the MXT is a good text example of this.

Chris

All good points!
Dimitar DOES have: good ears! He hears all of us.

I hope he understands that those who have taken the time to really use & try to understand/unlock the Tarsacci's potential really want him to succeed in his efforts.

Chris

One thing only.. better target locking. Some improvements were consulted some time ago. We see what happened.

One thing only.. better target locking. Some improvements were consulted some time ago. We see what happen next.

It is the type of Operating System........that hinders the improvement of the ID system. But.........there may be other ways.