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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
October 05, 2018 02:59PM
Here it comes...…… a bit of a paradigm-shift in technology/technological-advancements. I want to give you guys a (moderate) heads-up...… for something that is on the horizon. It is built by a small company (medium/small) that makes military-grade underwater locating devices. One of those engineers is a avid detectorist. He has convinced/steered the company into inventing/building a hobby-line detector. It's been in-the-works for about 18 years. All of the prototyping had been completed 2 years ago. It has been an "unreleased" completed product for the past 2 years. (((We are at: "shoot the engineer" time-continuum))). It is not quite a VLF..... and it's not quite a PI. Ergonomically..... it has been 'pushed' to be in the shape of a detector...that we would 'recognize' as a detector. It's been some work..... to get the unit to 'sound' like a metal detector. . . . . . that we would 'understand' it's language/audio. It is "quirky". You will like some of the quirks.....and can put some of them to good use. Some things that I can share...… at this time:

* Very specifically targets TWO INTENTS:
1. Wet-Salt
2. Bad Mineralization
This is to say...….. it does NOT target mega-trashy areas...… does NOT target carpets of nails.

* NOT for beginners/novice. Targeted for seasoned detectorists.

* IP-68

* 11" x 8" DD open coil (hydrodynamic)

* Electronics designed TO/FOR the coil. ((( If you want to change coils..... you must change the electronics. This is a very specific/discrete platform. )))

* Weight/Ergonomics: Very similar to F75/EQX/T2

* One rechargeable battery. 1-1/3 length of a C-Cell. Diameter of a C-Cell. 6000mAh 3.7V. This is a 'off the shelf'......easy to access/buy......and YOU can change it... in about 40-seconds. (Under the armcup).

* Full VDI ID ….. with a 60-point span.

* A very real/correct All-Metal Mode. Disc Mode. ID Mode.

* Iron span range is: -30 to 0. And for a very specific/discrete electronic platform rationale/justification. You DON'T want this changed.

* Non-Ferrous span range is: 0-30.

* In certain modes..... very responsive to high conductors.

* Inches deeper than Excal/CZ/Sov for coins and gold rings..... in a wet-salt environment. ((( Almost exactly parallels the performance of my 'tuned/tweaked' AquaStar-II..... in the wet-salt. . . . . but. . . . . with FULL ID capabilities. ))) Resonant (great) for tiny gold rings, small, medium and large gold rings. This is where the depth advancements have taken place.

* One of the paradigm-shifts: Ground Balance the unit in the dry sand FIRST. ((( And in a different fashion: Hold coil about 10" above the ground. Press and hold GB button. Lower the coil to about 1" off of ground. Release GB button. DONE. ))) Then...…… walk down to the wet-salt. . . and manually zeroize your local wet-salt content/volume. Now the detector … no longer even sees the wet-salt. It is not 'canceled'. It is not phase-shifted out. It is not Ground Balanced out. The high conductivity of the wet-salt is no longer seen. This is a fairly large dramatic departure from all other detectors. First time in history. A paradigm-shift.

* This unit targets beach hunters.... and relic hunters in bad dirt. This unit loses depth/performance in bad dirt …but at a SLOWER rate than other units. It 'holds on' to good target ID's at deeper depths.... in bad dirt..... at a better depth/ID rate than other units.

* Trying to keep the cost below the CTX-3030 MSRP. If we don't market/advertise it..... the cost may be around $1600..... or slightly lower. The intent may be to sell the unit on this web-site (forum) only/exclusively. That way..... we can circumvent advertisement costs (which can be very expensive).

* For the most-part: K.I.S.S. theory has been employed.

* Heavy gauge carbon fiber.

More details to follow...… possibly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2018 01:40PM by NASA-Tom.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 03:27PM
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 04:08PM
Sounds fantastic. I'll take one.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 04:17PM
Tom, if it's tested and endorsed by you, that's all the marketing and advertising it will require thumbs down

What's the tentative ETA?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 04:50PM
Is it sensitive to VERY small, subgram or grain size gold to where it would be good for nugget hunting?

Bryan
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 05:58PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is to say...….. it does NOT target mega-trash
> y areas...… does NOT target carpets of nails.

Does this mean it is not recommended for those type sites?
Sorry for not completely understanding.

El
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 06:23PM
Sounds very interesting Tom!

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 06:26PM
18 years wouldn't that be using old tech?
Still sounds interesting thou.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 06:27PM by GreenMeanie.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 06:48PM
Question Tom

When zeroing out the wet salt is there a range or does it have to be spot on. Like running a slightly positive ground balance,,,only different.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 07:23PM
Elbert = Correct.
GreenMeanie = No. Started 18 years ago...… and prototyped/mod'ed/upgraded/improved in those 18 years. Electronics are modern......and ready for production.
Tom = The closer you get it to wet-salt 'zero'.... the higher you can run the Sens. It does need to be fairly close.
Brian = Shooting for release in 3-weeks.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 07:47PM
The obvious question not asked........ is this the Manta or another project Tom?

Is the only coil available ......the 11"? or when you order can you order say a 9" coil...... or are there even going to be any other coils?

Am i wrong or is that a lot of battery..... based on dcv? Whats the run time on it?

No. of tones....... or is it just a threshold raise like say the Xcal in PP? Apparently it has to process the signal thou to provide that digit reading.

You know ive got to ask....... is this a small gold machine, because you were pretty specific .... RINGS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 10:25PM by dewcon4414.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 08:01PM
This makes me wonder if it's using Hall Effect magnetic sensors as the 'receive' side, and a more conventional 'coil of wire' as the transmit side.
I have considered this myself, and I recall there's been some mention of it on the Geotech1 forum.

Hall sensors measure magnetic field statically, so they can sense fields that are constant eg. the earth's field, or changing, such as generated by a VLF detector.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 08:28PM
Sounds like Tom has been busy the last 18 years! Oh no, the Manta people are going to be back to the drawing boards.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 08:48PM
possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like Tom has been busy the last 18 years!
> Oh no, the Manta people are going to be back to th
> e drawing boards.



This made me laugh so hard my side is hurting LOL
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 08:51PM
Everyone i know who water hunts looks for that EDGE. AquaStar depth ...... is a darn good edge. Ive gotten to the point im just looking for a DEEP target...... because anything recently dropped its first come first serve. BUT... id like to have some idea im not digging 2' for a fish hook...... thats wasted time. As Max says right now im leaving the beach with the mumbles there are so few targets that arent iron. So.... we arent talking a uS rating or freq that it runs at?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 09:51PM
Doubt the “manta people” are going back to the drawing boards. When and if both of these machines are on sale, folks will look at the price and performance and decide which (if either) of them they will choose. In any event, salt beach hunters are a tiny niche of the whole detector market.

Competition is good for us - gives us new toys and increased choice.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 09:53PM by lytle78.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 09:58PM
This thread (coming detector).
Related to this thread below as NASA Tom talks about iron range with this new detector???

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 09:59PM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 10:02PM
Sorry, forget it

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 10:14PM by lytle78.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 10:18PM
It sure would be nice to see some test videos similar to those we saw with the Manta. The cats out of the box so what would it hurt.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 10:33PM
You are likely to see lots of videos from the “Manta” (spoiler alert - Fisher has another name for it). LE JAG, who has been the chief tester for the many successive prototypes has told me that the “Euroteam” want to produce videos when the production device is ready.

I’m in AZ, so barring the greatest earthquake in history - we have no local salt beach. San Diego is only 5 hours away and when I get one, I will be off like a shot, looking for black sand, beds of nails from old bonfires, everything the “Manta” will cut through.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 10:55PM
Tom,
My 'ears' perked up when you said targeted toward "bad mineralization", full VDI, sensitive to high conductors, and inches deeper than CZ.

I've been waiting patiently for something like this for decades.

Our deep silver (around here) has slowly and quietly gotten to the point it's almost not detectable unless the ground is just right, the weather is just right, and you hold your mouth just right.
And even then you're not sure if it's a real signal sometimes...

This has my attention.
smiling smiley
mike
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 05, 2018 11:48PM
Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Hall sensors measure magnetic field statically, so they can sense fields that are constant eg. the earth's field, or changing, such as generated by a VLF detector.

Does that mean that their less susceptible to EMI?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 12:08AM
EMI ? I would guess they pick up less of it. But they will pick up the Earth's field, so that's a different source of interference. It depends how you orient them, and it's possible to use them in pairs so one picks up the opposite Earth field to its mate.
Just like there's several ways to make a conventional VLF coil, there's probably a fair number of arrangements with Hall sensors.
But it's fair to say the signals we are talking about are going to be very small, just as with a conventional machine, so there's all the usual issues - thermal stability, electrical noise, EMI pickup, vibration/knock/movement sensitivity, to name the main issues.

Edit: I suppose I could add - it's possible to make a machine that uses a combination of Hall sensor and magnetic pickup coil. That then presents you with more choices, in how you combine the two 'receive' signals, and how your coils are arranged. So you could have a concentric or DD.
One issue with two sensors is they may not appear to detect in the same 'sweet spot', ie. one is shifted 10cm (4 inches) away from the other. So delay techniques could be needed to align the two signals. This is pretty easy nowadays ... you would need to know which way the coil was swinging to do this properly, so an accelerometer/rate-gyro in the coil (like the CTX) is a requirement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2018 01:11PM by Pimento.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 12:25AM
* One of the paradigm-shifts: Ground Balance the unit in the dry sand FIRST. ((( And in a different fashion: Hold coil about 10" above the ground. Press and hold GB button. Lower the coil to about 1" off of ground. Release GB button. DONE. ))) Then...…… walk down to the wet-salt. . . and manually zeroize your local wet-salt content/volume. Now the detector … no longer even sees the wet-salt. It is not 'canceled'. It is not phase-shifted out. It is not Ground Balanced out. The high conductivity of the wet-salt is no longer seen. This is a fairly large dramatic departure from all other detectors. First time in history. A paradigm-shift.


HMMMMMM.....EYE CATCHEReye popping smileyeye popping smiley

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 01:35AM
Thanks for sharing Tom, much appreciated! Would this unit be suitable for snorkel detecting at the beach (less than 2M of water, but fully submerged for the duration of the hunt)? Are the headphones waterproof?
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 02:41AM
Tom,

Thank you for the info. If it's waterproof, count me in.
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 02:42AM
Tom will have to test it even though his ground is not like ours in the gold country. Be interesting to see other companies trying to figure out to move on to a newer idea.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 03:45AM
* Right now...….. at minimum...…. a one-year warranty. (Possibly more).

* No...…. I'm not talking about the Manta.

* One battery is too much? I'm not sure I understand. ---- Average Batt life is about 30-hours.

* Not good for tiny gold.

* Unit will come with a pigtail headphone jack adapter...… for 1/8" stereo jack..... so you can use whatever headphones you have in your inventory. But..... you can also purchase a custom-built headphone that is specific to this detector......and is waterproof. It is not going to be included in the package...… so as to keep costs down.,.,.,.,.,.,., and most people are exceptionally 'choice selective' when it comes to headphones.

* You will need a custom built unit for Culpepper dirt. (This might change).

Has anyone ever looked up IP-68 spec's? It's kind of interesting. 1.5 Meters deep ….for 30-Minutes. That's all!
Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 05:05AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> * Right now...….. at minimum...…. a one-year warra
> nty. (Possibly more).
>
> * No...…. I'm not talking about the Manta.
>
> * One battery is too much? I'm not sure I understa
> nd. ---- Average Batt life is about 30-hours.
>
> * Not good for tiny gold.
>
> * Unit will come with a pigtail headphone jack ada
> pter...… for 1/8" stereo jack..... so you can use
> whatever headphones you have in your inventory. Bu
> t..... you can also purchase a custom-built headph
> one that is specific to this detector......and is
> waterproof. It is not going to be included in the
> package...… so as to keep costs down.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
> and most people are exceptionally 'choice selectiv
> e' when it comes to headphones.
>
> * You will need a custom built unit for Culpepper
> dirt. (This might change).
>
> Has anyone ever looked up IP-68 spec's? It's kind
> of interesting. 1.5 Meters deep ….for 30-Minutes.
> That's all!


Thanks for the info Tom! Yes, I looked up the IP68 spec, but If I remember correctly, I had a custom PI machine made by Sven a few years back that used IP68 connectors (I think) and worked fine for my hunts 1-2M water submerged for about 4-8 hours.

Re: ON THE HORIZON
October 06, 2018 09:14AM
tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread (coming detector).
> Related to this thread below as NASA Tom talks abo
> ut iron range with this new detector???
>
> [www.dankowskidetectors.com]
> .php?2,152253,page=1


This thread sprang to my mind :
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]
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