Hit the old camp site again - ID HELP PLEASE

Tom and I were able to get out yesterday for some detecting at the same site we posted a few weeks ago. This time I wanted to test another camp site that wasn't far away from the one we got the eagle tongue and groove buckles at. It was supposed to be a larger camp, but it pretty much turned out to be a bust. You could hear iron here and there, and we did get some period conductors, and period iron relics, but nothing to write home about. We did a fairly good job covering it, it just wasn't a productive site, perhaps someone else detected it before we did. I wondered back to the camp we detected a few weeks ago to see if I could locate the other half of my eagle buckle that fell out of my finds pouch, and while that didn't pan out, I did find an old eagle button of some sort. It's a domed one piece cast button, if anyone can ID it, I'd greatly appreciate it. Found another part of an eagle buckle, but no more complete ones on this trip. The only coin dug (old coin, we did manage to dig some pesky clad on this hunt ) was a Chinese cache coin, and possibly a toasted copper coin, but not sure about that.





Rim fires, musket balls, lead, and hand forged iron and bronze nails/spikes:



One piece eagle button, any ideas on the ID?



EDIT: Perhaps a variety of this one?



Image and info from The Treasure Depot button book:

U.S. Infantry
1820's
1pc. cast brass silver plated, 20mm
B/M:"Best Plated London"
Eagle, 3 arrows in left talon, 17 stars.
Other backmarks may apply. See backmark reference.
Photo submitted by: John Frezza (North Carolina)

[www.thetreasuredepot.com]


No clue what this is, it may have been made from a copper coin?



Old lock? It's cast bronze whatever it is, has a part on the top with a spring lever under it.





Couple of iron relics, part of an eagle buckle, love that old copper hand forged hinge:



Every one of these copper bits sounded sweet, all sound like coins and some were super deep!



No idea what this was??? Almost want to say some kind of hunting point, but it has no edge.

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These are frequently found at old sites in California!



No clue what this was used for? Bezel is silver, appears to be a finished stone, but cannot see where it attached to anything



Thanks for looking!
Cal



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 12:57AM by Cal_cobra.

I cant help with any IDs but looks like you found some great stuff! The eagle on the button certainly looks like an old great seal eagle, but I'm no expert.

NICE!!

The thing your calling a hunting point is whats left of a trigger guard..it broke at screw hole.

Big brass piece with spring inside is back casing to pad lock.

Cut coin looks like the ones we find in camp's where they were starting to make a replacement rowel for spur..can be found in varying degrees of completion..even seen spurs with coin rowels installed.

Button seems to be 1820 period US Infantry Militia Uniform Button.Nice!!!


I see you have a earring in first pic...Like the bird on it...Cool one!!

Keith..

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Brian, Were you using the Multi-Kruzer? I have a deer-head button with the same type of stars around it, 1/2" diameter, that came from a mining camp that had 1880's dating on a brass promotional piece.

Joel

Nice finds and KEITH SURE DOES KNOW HIS STUFF.

El

Excellent one piece Eagle Button Brian

Would like to see a pic after it's cleaned up.

Brian, Your Cash coin is from the Fukien Province, Fuchow Mint 1862-1874. Everyone else already beat me to your other finds. I found one here in Mesa last week. Not worth squat but still fun to find therm.

silverfiend Wrote:
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> I cant help with any IDs but looks like you found some great stuff! The eagle on the button certainly looks like an old great seal eagle, but I'm no expert.

Thanks!

Keith Southern Wrote:
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> NICE!!
>
> The thing your calling a hunting point is whats left of a trigger guard..it broke at screw hole.
>
> Big brass piece with spring inside is back casing to pad lock.
>
> Cut coin looks like the ones we find in camp's where they were starting to make a replacement rowel for spur..can be found in varying degrees of completion..even seen spurs with coin rowels installed.
>
> Button seems to be 1820 period US Infantry Militia Uniform Button.Nice!!!
>
>
> I see you have a earring in first pic...Like the bird on it...Cool one!!
>
> Keith..

Thanks for taking a look and IDing some history for us, really appreciate it That coin rowel is pretty cool, you can actually see where they had made outlines for the rest of the spur points, so that totally makes sense.

Do you think that earring with the bird is old? It looks like it may be period'ish, but then again

YubaJ Wrote:
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> Brian, Were you using the Multi-Kruzer? I have a deer-head button with the same type of stars around it, 1/2" diameter, that came from a mining camp that had 1880's dating on a brass promotional piece.
>
> Joel

Hi Joel, Not a ton of iron to work-around, so I was using the EQ800. Your button sounds pretty cool. Pretty sure after seeing the one on Treasure Depot and now with Keith's confirmation that this one piece is an 1820 variety as the front appears to be identical to the one on the Depot button site.

Thanks for look,
Cal

Elbert Wrote:
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> Nice finds and KEITH SURE DOES KNOW HIS STUFF.
>
> El


Thanks El !! He sure does, always appreciate it when he checks out our "mystery" items

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
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> Excellent one piece Eagle Button Brian
>
> Would like to see a pic after it's cleaned up.

Thanks Wayne I'm not positive it'll clean up any better? Seems to have some crud fused on the front (not the back of course I've heard that soaking copper/brass relics in transmission oil or olive oil will get the crud off, but I've never had good luck with that. Any suggestions?

Tom Slick Wrote:
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> Brian, Your Cash coin is from the Fukien Province, Fuchow Mint 1862-1874. Everyone else already beat me to your other finds. I found one here in Mesa last week. Not worth squat but still fun to find therm.

Thanks Tom, appreciate the ID Yeah there not work anything, but they add to the story.

Nice finds. I like the old jewelry piece.
Rick

Keith Southern : As usual, you are an asset to the md'ing community, the forum, etc.... Thanx very much for chiming in.

Re.: the circular round slug thing, where notches (a point) was cut out at one edge : Your analysis, along with Brian's observation that there appears to be template lines etched in for the remainder, seems to support your "un-finished rowel" theory. That's a cool story for Brian's shadow box museum displays that he & I have going for this site.

Tom Slick: Thanx for dating the Chinese coin. That's actually newer than we'd have liked, for the dates of this site usage. Although it had activity up through the turn-of-century, yet we're always chomping at the bit to find the stuff that we can safely put at the earlier history/usage of the site. This is one of those type sites where you groan and complain if you get a barber or V nickel, as "too new", haha

Brian: Re.: the button : I think you could clean up the front better without risking damage. But it appears to be a moot point, as the ID seems to be pretty certain. I don't see any backmark in your pix. Versus the one you link from T-depot, is said to have a backmark. Got a better picture of the back ? Otherwise, yes, the front is eerily similar to the 1820s type shown @ T-depot , if you meant this one :

[www.thetreasuredepot.com] Note, you have to go to the left hand side of page, and choose United States Infantry A. Then scroll down to match up the pix. For some reason the exact button pix link can not be linked here. The link attempt only leads back to the starting page ?

That 1820s date perfectly fits the caliber/date of relics we wanted to find there. Congratz. I know the east coast guys find these in every sandbox. But for us west coast guys, this is from a period when the west coast was still the remote end of the world. When manufactured goods had to arrive by ship, or months long land journey. Nice job. Even if it was circulated to the gold rush era (25+ yr. circulation?) it's still within our desired date range. If it's a pre US territory loss (lesser years of circulation), it puts a "face" on the trade routes of the east coast of the USA , to the eventual destination points of the west coast. Very interesting.

Brian: How about the round disk to the right of the trigger guard in the first pix ? Were you able to determine if there is any design on that ? Ie.: some sort of coin ? Or just a blank slug ?

I will post my half of the finds from the excursion, hopefully later today in a separate thread. Thanx guys for all the inputs !



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 02:34PM by Tom_in_CA.

Tom_in_CA Wrote:
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> Keith Southern : As usual, you are an asset to the md'ing community, the forum, etc.... Thanx very much for chiming in.

Yes, thanks again Keith


> Brian: Re.: the button : I think you could clean up the front better without risking damage.

Suggestions on how (aside from your usual bench grinder suggestion)?

> But it appears to be a moot point, as the ID seems to be pretty certain. I don't see any backmark in your pix. Versus the one you link from T-depot, is said to have a backmark. Got a better picture of the back ? Otherwise, yes, the front is eerily similar to the 1820s type shown @ T-depot.

This is what they said on the Depot (look for Infantry not Army):

U.S. Infantry
1820's
1pc. cast brass silver plated, 20mm
B/M:"Best Plated London"
Eagle, 3 arrows in left talon, 17 stars.
Other backmarks may apply. See backmark reference.
Photo submitted by: John Frezza (North Carolina)

Buttons were typically manufactured by a variety of sources, so while a backmark is potentially helpful for dating, they weren't usually consistent.


> Even if it was circulated to the gold rush era (25+ yr. circulation?) it's still within our desired date range.

We know that camp goes way back, it could be a loss from the 1820's to 1850's, there's no way to date when it was actually dropped.

> Brian: How about the round disk to the right of the trigger guard in the first pix ? Were you able to determine if there is any design on that ? Ie. : some sort of coin ? Or just a blank slug ?

If you hold it just right, with the light highlighting any raised features and squint your eyes, it looks like there's a few letters/numbers, but it's so toasted, it would be nearly impossible to ID it.

ah, ok. I stopped reading the T-depot link, the moment I read about the back-mark. Didn't register the part where it hints that other backmarks (or none at all) may apply to this button.

Nice haul! Congrats on the button.

calabash digger Wrote:
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> Nice haul! Congrats on the button.

Thanks! I take it that even back east, this would be a rare button?

I have the Eagle A one piece but none with stars in the concave style. Nice find...

Cal_cobra Wrote:
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> Thanks Wayne I'm not positive it'll clean u
> p any better? Seems to have some crud fused on t
> he front (not the back of course I've heard t
> hat soaking copper/brass relics in transmission oi
> l or olive oil will get the crud off, but I've nev
> er had good luck with that. Any suggestions?


Try Naval Jelly Brian

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cal_cobra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Thanks Wayne I'm not positive it'll clean up any better? Seems to have some crud fused on the front (not the back of course I've heard that soaking copper/brass relics in transmission oil or olive oil will get the crud off, but I've never had good luck with that. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Try Naval Jelly Brian


I have Aluminum Jelly, but pretty sure that's a different thing then Naval Jelly. I'll give that a try, it would be great to bring that button back to life