Lost Gold of the Dark Ages (National Geographic)

On 5 July 11 @ 6:00PM , National Geographic Channel is showing the largest Anglo-Saxon hoard of gold ever found in England.
Terry Herbert, a 55 yr. old amateur metal detectorist found a national treasure of gold, silver and precious stones.

If you have not already seen this, set your DVR., this is truly worth watching. BTW, I believe he was using a Whites metal detector.


[channel.nationalgeographic.com]




Tri

How bad is this guy going to get screwed on his findings?

I watched that. They told how much the guy and the farmer who owns the land were were going to get for it on the program. Terry (the guy who found it)
had agreed to a 50-50 split with the farmer before he even began metal detecting. I can't remember the amount but it was in the millions. They also said
on the program the have a horrible problem with trespassers who detect at night on private property and dig up relics. They said the so called 'nighthawks'
find 6 billion dollars of treasure every year and sell it on the international market. Which is against English treasure law.

Somewhere here in the states, I guarantee, there is a treasure like that. Waiting to be found.

I'll bet archeologists get miffed when "amatures" find hoards like that.

"big time" the "archies" dislike us intensely!
screw 'em!..at least the stuff gets found!..just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I would love to see detectorists and archaeologists work hand-in-hand. We could learn a ton from them.....as .... they could learn a ton from us.

A couple months ago I was riding along the Delaware River on River Road where interstate 95 crosses the Delaware River from PA to NJ. The area is called Yardley.Very historic area, it's near Washingtons Crossing. I saw a fenced in area with about half a dozen men and women digging and sifting. I told my buddy to pull over lets go take a look. Well, there is no place to pull over on River Rd so my buddy said hop out and I'll circle the block.

I went through the open gate and was greeted by a friendly young man who explaned what was taking place. He said they are a private company hired to do a dig before the new 95 bridge gets built. They just completed the dig on the Jersey side and found a old hearth they believed was Indian made.

The first pit they dug on the PA side was a test pit, a cubic yard. In that test pit they found projectile points (his terminology) and so they set up to dig many more pits at specific measurements,. These pits were perfectly dug and much bigger than the test pit. They had string lines and grids and were scraping ounces of dirt at a time, recording the exact location of the finds and sifting with various size screens, I think the smallest was 1/8" x 1/8". Looked like very tedious work. He believed they uncovered an Indian campsite over 2000 years old and at that time wasn't sure of the tribe. I asked him if they found any old coins, he paused a second, blinked a couple times and said they did not. I didn't see any metal detectors leaning anywhere or laying about. They also found pottery and animal bones. I wonder if I could find out about the total outcome of the dig, if its public information, would be very interesting to know because I grew up in near by Phila and now live a few miles from the dig.

Yes, It would be fascinating to know what they come up with..............and............at what depths. Interesting this group exists.

We may not have the 'age' in this country of 'civilized/educated' human era..........but we do have native indians that date back thousands of years in this country. European countries have thousands of years of very serious history; subsequently, detecting over there...can present MUCH greater history. BUT..............even though we do not have quite the 'age' as the European countries.............the 'value' can be more... in this country. In Europe............if you find a 200-year-old coin with a metal detector..........you spend it and put it back in circulation. In this country....if you find a 200-year-old coin..............it is worth a LOT of 'value'. Look up some 200-year-old coins in the R.S. Yeoman's Red Book.......and you will instantly see what I mean.

If only I had the time to type-and-teach 'HOW' much value you can find in this country. Some day..........I probably should give a Professional Series training seminar to some folks.................as I hold in 'reserve'... so much data that I never get to share. Knowledge is critical to success. Do not underestimate this country. Once again:

You don't know......what you don't know.
How do you know what you are missing.......if you don't know it even exists.
So:

HOW do you know what to look for......if you don't know it exists.
Do you (truly) know what you are looking for. (Will you know it when you see it).

Sounds a bit silly.......doesn't it!

Let me know when I can enroll...

How may "game changing" discoveries have been made by mistake?

"In Europe............if you find a 200-year-old coin with a metal detector..........you spend it and put it back in circulation." Sorry Tom, but for once I would have to disagree with you about something.

In fact I think the U.S. is actually the only country where you can go to a shop and buy something with your change from the 1960's, like a 1966 quarter etc.. of course you can even go back further and use the silver washington quarters from 1932 or Jefferson nickels from 1938. You can even go back further and spend the 1911 wheat penny which would make the coin 100 years old but still being able to use it to buy things.

I am pretty confident that no other country exists where you can go to your local store and use 100 year old coins besides the U.S. In fact, I bet you would be hard pressed to find one that would accept coins over 60 years old. If someone can look into this from an academic perspective I would appreciate it, because I only speak from experience as someone who knows the world as I travel a lot and collect world coins. The U.S. is a beacon of stability when it comes to coins.

Did a little research on this, and seems like the U.S. is still king when it comes to the oldest coins in circulation, but I did find that the Swiss 10 rappen has remained largely unchanged since 1879 so in theory it's possible to find one in circulation, but very unlikely. As the whole the U.S. is the only country where you likely to find the oldest coins in circulation, and where these are still accepted as legal tender.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would love to see detectorists and
> archaeologists work hand-in-hand. We could learn a
> ton from them.....as .... they could learn a ton
> from us.


i agree!.tom,however it is NOT the detectorists creating the "animosity"
but the "archies", who insist we do NOT know what we are doing! (b.s!)
i believe strongly though,that fostering" cooperation between the two groups would
be beneficial to both parties!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, It would be fascinating to know what they
> come up with..............and............at what
> depths. Interesting this group exists.
>
> We may not have the 'age' in this country of
> 'civilized/educated' human era..........but we do
> have native indians that date back thousands of
> years in this country. European countries have
> thousands of years of very serious history;
> subsequently, detecting over there...can present
> MUCH greater history. BUT..............even though
> we do not have quite the 'age' as the European
> countries.............the 'value' can be more...
> in this country. In Europe............if you find
> a 200-year-old coin with a metal
> detector..........you spend it and put it back in
> circulation. In this country....if you find a
> 200-year-old coin..............it is worth a LOT
> of 'value'. Look up some 200-year-old coins in the
> R.S. Yeoman's Red Book.......and you will
> instantly see what I mean.
>
> If only I had the time to type-and-teach 'HOW'
> much value you can find in this country. Some
> day..........I probably should give a Professional
> Series training seminar to some
> folks.................as I hold in 'reserve'... so
> much data that I never get to share. Knowledge is
> critical to success. Do not underestimate this
> country. Once again:
>
> You don't know......what you don't know.
> How do you know what you are missing.......if you
> don't know it even exists.
> So:
>
> HOW do you know what to look for......if you don't
> know it exists.
> Do you (truly) know what you are looking for.
> (Will you know it when you see it).
>
> Sounds a bit silly.......doesn't it!


actually to wax philosophically,this phrase: "you don't know .. what you don't know"
is applicable to the life journey as well!..something to ponder!..just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I found the write-up about the dig at the 95 bridge;

EWING, N.J. (AP) – A $1.1 million archaeological dig that has been under way for months as part of the proposed Scudder Falls Bridge replacement project has turned up evidence that Native Americans lived at the site as long ago as 500 B.C. and as recently as 1500 A.D.

“The most intriguing evidence (in Ewing) are the physical remains of a large number of hearths,” said John Lawrence, a senior archaeologist with AECOM, the Trenton-based engineering firm hired by the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission, which owns and operates the Scudder Falls Bridge and is paying for the dig.

“They are the remains of where the Native Americans would have been cooking food for storage and for daily meals,” Lawrence said of the hearths.

AECOM is conducting the dig with the New Jersey and Pennsylvania historic preservation offices to determine if any artifacts might be affected by the proposed bridge project, said Joe Donnelly, a spokesman for the commission.

The dig started in October, with 10 people in the field and two in the laboratory working 40-hour weeks in all kinds of weather.

Lawrence said archeologists should be done digging in Ewing this week. A dig across the Delaware River in Yardley is projected to take three or four months once it begins, which could happen within a month, Lawrence said.

In Ewing two weeks ago, the archaeological team found the charred remains of nut shells that might be evidence of the Native Americans' diet.

Other artifacts found so far include little chips of stone that the Native Americans might have used to create a tool, such as an arrowhead.

“Many of the artifacts would just be a piece of stone to a layman, but information about the technology being employed by Native Americans to make their tools tells us about their ways of life,” Lawrence said.

About 10 percent of the artifacts are tools, including projectile points, pottery, markers used for drawings, and hammer stones, Lawrence said.

The artifacts are taken from the site to an offsite lab where they are cleaned, processed and catalogued.

Some objects, such as ceramics that might contain plant or animal residue, are sent to a specialized lab for analysis, Lawrence said.

When the project is done, the artifacts will be taken to the New Jersey State Museum, where researchers and others who are interested can look at them and analyze them.

Donnelly said archaeological digs like this one are standard procedure when large-scale public projects such as bridges or highways are proposed.

If the site has been determined to contain significant information about the past, the archeologists will recover that information before the project moves ahead and affects the site, Donnelly said.

The Scudder Falls Bridge carries Interstate 95 across the Delaware River between Mercer County, N.J., and Bucks County, Pa.

The Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission is working with transportation departments in New Jersey and Pennsylvania to advance a $310 million I-95/Scudder Falls Bridge improvement.

Construction is set to begin in 2013.

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "big time" the "archies" dislike us intensely!
> screw 'em!..at least the stuff gets found!..just
> sayin!
>
> (h.h.!)
> j.t.


Not true... across the pond anyway! Actually, the archeologists and detectorists work together over there. Their laws require them to register everything they find and in detailed fashion. They actually have to give the exact location they dug the find and it is recorded to allow them to have records for future use of archeologists. If fact, they employ people who all they do is register the finds. If it is determined to be considered treasure, it remains the property of the government and the government keeps the find for use in their museums and protect their history. In turn, the property owner gets 50% and the finder gets 50% of the fair market value. And they actually pay FAIR MARKET VALUE. It is working well, and... it encourages the land owners to allow detecting on their land and detectorists to go "treasure hunting".

I believe this guy got 1.2 million and so did the property owner. He also got to keep a coin and all the picture he could take for bragging rights. It was in one of the treasure magazines.

schultzie......correct.

Yes, it may be that Archaeologists have more of a conflict with detectorists. Regardless........the fact remains.......... it would favor 'all' if (collectively) we worked together. Yes, an Archaeologist places much more theological academia datum on each specific find/dig. ((( I do believe the Archaeologists are aware of the fact that most of the 'finds'.......especially in Europe.......have been from detectorists ))).

Placing a 200-year old coin back in circulation (in Europe) is a metaphoric reference. Unless it is a unique/extenuating circumstance (silver or gold coin).....a European detectorist does not have much interest at all ... in 200-year old coins. COMPLETELY different story in this country.

schultzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "big time" the "archies" dislike us intensely!
> > screw 'em!..at least the stuff gets
> found!..just
> > sayin!
> >
> > (h.h.!)
> > j.t.
>
>
> Not true... across the pond anyway! Actually, the
> archeologists and detectorists work together over
> there. Their laws require them to register
> everything they find and in detailed fashion. They
> actually have to give the exact location they dug
> the find and it is recorded to allow them to have
> records for future use of archeologists. If fact,
> they employ people who all they do is register the
> finds. If it is determined to be considered
> treasure, it remains the property of the
> government and the government keeps the find for
> use in their museums and protect their history. In
> turn, the property owner gets 50% and the finder
> gets 50% of the fair market value. And they
> actually pay FAIR MARKET VALUE. It is working
> well, and... it encourages the land owners to
> allow detecting on their land and detectorists to
> go "treasure hunting".
>
> I believe this guy got 1.2 million and so did the
> property owner. He also got to keep a coin and all
> the picture he could take for bragging rights. It
> was in one of the treasure magazines.


i am pleased to learn that this is true!
as mentioned in my previous post,there are zero
negative connotations when mutual cooperation ensues.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Yes. Would love to see this system employed here.

Placing a 200-year old coin back in circulation (in Europe) is a metaphoric reference. Unless it is a unique/extenuating circumstance (silver or gold coin).....a European detectorist does not have much interest at all ... in 200-year old coins. COMPLETELY different story in this country.

Agreed. As someone who has been detecting in the US since I was a child at first I was pretty excited to find coins that were 100 and 200 years old on most days out here in UK. Not so much anymore.

Found some interesting info, ref. in the UK, what is know as the Portable Antiquities Scheme (Treasure Act).


( [finds.org.uk] )


( [www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk] )


Tri



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2011 09:19PM by Tri.

Thanks Tri.............very good data.

I just watched it , I would love to have a law like that in the US, the land owners would let us on the land a lot more I bet, one thing I saw on the show was after the (amateur) detector, why is he an amateur, show where he found the stuff, the archies did their dig, they were digging every where, why didn't they use a detector to find the stuff, the stuff they found was amazing, wonder if the archies in Egypt use detectors to find stuff, it's like driving a car with stone wheels

Caretaker, I think it very important to note that the finds liason officer, made a special announcement about how very important and instrumental Terry Herbert was in helping a local archaelogical club, that was employed secretly to keep out the "nighthawks", he specifically said they could not have pinpointed the finds without his help as quickly as they did. Like Tom said, it would truly benefit the archaeologists and detectorists alike to work together. I was very impressed that Terry Herbert received such well deserved recognition. The final split I believe was $5,500,000.USD.
between Herbert and the landowner, Fred Johnson, which when the offer was made, they actually had the option to reject if they so desired.
(Of course they did not). A very fair deal indeed, and I might add totally tax free.

Tri