CZ-3D bouncing signals...

Just curious as to what other CZ users have to say. When using my 3D, if the signal bounces AT ALL - EVEN ONCE - 99% of the time it's junk...normally iron. Also, I only use the 8" coil. I never even use the PP button, I just X the target. If after cutting a plug, the target is not more or less smack dab in the middle of the hole, again - 99% of the time it's junkola. If I find myself having to dig around the sides of my hole, it's crap. My CZ is the BEST coinshooter I ever used...IF...iron isn't present. If it is, the 3D reads a lot of the deeper stuff as good signals. Curious as to what you guys are doing to cut down on the deceptive iron high signals? I've tried raising my coil off the ground a few inches, checking the signal in all metal, and raising the discrim & the iron still comes up as a high or medium tone. BTW, I normally run with sensitivity at 4 or 5, volume at 5 & with the discrim. set to 0.

If it bounces from mid to hi or hi to mid I dig it. Just yesterday I had a signal bouncing like that and it was a quarter and a pulltab in the same hole. I also dig if it gos from foil to pulltab, as I have found some old nickels this way. Tom had explained this I believe,,,in one of the Fisher Intelligence years ago for the a article on the 3D. Theres so many variants, I'll let other guys explain more details, only time and experience will really be your best teacher.

Your basically right regarding iron...it is never in the center of the hole and most of the time will not get a 4 way signal. But again...iron is masking alot of good stuff and sometimes we dig it anyway on a hunch or a feeling (and experience) and find something in the same hole. The CZ likes rusty crown caps, you can easily figure those out by whipping the coil across it and it will no longer register as a good tone.

Sounds like all your settings are good EXCEPT your volume. You have it way to low and are not utilizing Boost, and will not hear real deep targets.
Raise the volume all the way then adjust your headphones accordingly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 02:04AM by Aaron.

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like all your settings are good EXCEPT your
> volume. You have it way to low and are not
> utilizing Boost, and will not hear real deep
> targets.
> Raise the volume all the way then adjust your
> headphones accordingly.

When you say 'boost', you are talking about raising the volume to enhance the signal on the whisper signals, yes? If so, I actually prefer to keep it lower so I absolutely KNOW when something is deeper due to the reduced signal. If I'm on the beach or at a very old site, I'm probably digging most of everything. However, if I'm at a place where there is a lot of top layer junk or surface clad, I normally skip the first inch or two to get to the 'good' stuff. Sure, I might miss a good target or two, but, I'll get MOST of the better goodies while skipping the clad & junk. This is why I like the volume at 5. I tried raising it & although it works fine, 5 or 6 is better music to my ears

Everything you say is correct. Spot on. One thing I find a bit off though; I get a LOT of iron that is repeatable in both directions. That's why I dig it. If it WASN'T repeatable, I wouldn't dig so often. But, iron (especially deeper) sounds exquisitely good a fair amount of the time. Deep iron screws with ALL detectors, but, I find it's a bit more pronounced with the CZ's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 03:01AM by njnydigger.

I have heard of some CZ guys adjusting their volume like that, as long as your aware of the boost function.
Yes, iron is more pronounced with the CZ, however theres usually telltale signs regarding iron, alot of times you will not get a good tone all 4 ways (x or cross). Then sometimes you get totally fooled by yes... the infamous rusty screw or bent nail. I had found even with my Explorer though I was still digging nails, though I will admit I hadnt near the time and experience on it as the CZ, and my Etrac is better at figuring out iron and I still prefer the CZ3D over any other machine when I take it to my 200yr old park. Yes, I may not sniff out the real deep silver quite like the Etrac or Explorer...BUT...I can tell the difference between a pulltab and Trime and all the other old coins will register as a hi-tone.
No other machine can do that...and this is old technology.

Some say to turn down the gb to ease up on the falsing, but when I did that over a 10" deep quarter (test garden), it went from a high tone to an iron tone, so gbing on my cz3d needs to be spot on. It does have a big tendancy to give me high tones on deeper iron (6" + ) and many are 4 way. I run it the same way you guys do, 0 discrim, 5+ sens. I also keep the volume at 5 to 6 like njny does to hear the difference in debth better.

I have found a good many coins when my 3d bounced from coin to iron. Sometimes a piece of iron is close to a coin that causes it. I'll pinpoint whichever of the two or three targets and try to hone in on the coin tone and make my sweep area very small... sometime no more than 3 or 4 inches. Sometimes when I pinpoint, the target will sound like its very long and narrow. I haven't checked one yet because it think they're pieces of pipe or ferrous wire (barbwire or such). The end of the wire or pipe will give off a high coin tone sometimes, the same way a nail can do.

I learned to sniff out the bouncing signals after I had "presumably" cleaned out an old playground lot of coins. I had really gone back to dig the pulltab and foil tones, but became interested in all the "iron/coin" signals and began to play around with them. Glad I did! A good many of the foil/pulltab/coin/iron type of signals were Jefferson nickels... badly tarnished. Many were wheaties. I don't know if it's my 3d or not, but it hits just a bit harder on copper than silver. I should probably send it to Tom and let him check it out, but I'm having too much fun right now :-)

Volume is modulated below 5 but many use it at 10 to hear the real deep coins and of course a matter of preference.

CZ's may be user friendly to setup but takes time to learn what the audio is telling you and after a while you will know
when you have a good target but it does take experience and lots of field time especially in iron laden areas.

Some have tried negative and positive ground balance for existing conditions but personally feel a dead on neutral ground balance excells.

Last but not least never let a foil to nickle bounce go without digging as many a nice gold ring has been found in this manner along with a gold coin or shield or V nickle..

I have a new to me Tom D calibrated 3D and only have a few hunts with it. Part of me wished i put some time on it pre - calibration , but i did not . Only to get a feel for pre and post calibration.
Anyways my first hunt and being little cocky , i slapped on my sunray 12 incher at a small iron filled site. . After digging some test sounds mostly iron i got a Hi Low bounce
but using Toms 50% rotate rule i dug a Indian head at about 6 inches.
On the few hunts with 8 inch coil hunting farm fields , i dont think i have been fooled by iron more than once or twice..Now i have dug some but i was pretty shure it was iron before i dug . Still testing targets though.

There were several things out of calibration with my CZ including the Nickle window and that put the Disc out.
If in 0 Disc a Nickle would hit round tab all the time . If you put Disc on tab it would not hit a Nickle at all.
It also had a tone smear as Tom put it.
Now with the Nickle window off , that is a problem , but if the tone is off i think you have a bigger problem
as making it harder to seperate a clean target from a dirty one.

So far 5 Indains 1 V Nickle 1 Large Cent 1 Barber Dime and my oldest US silver 1842 a Seated Dime in very very nice shape and some misc rellics



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 01:16PM by gman.

Wow, some of you guys must have great hunting areas, 19 times out of 20 if the signal bounces AT ALL, it's junk on my 3D. And forget about those 'at least 50% good tone' signals, those have even worse odds for me. If the signal goes from coin to iron, coin to iron, coin to iron repeatably, it's crap 99% of the time I tried discriminating out the iron, but, I like to run wide open - just my personal preference. Also, I hate getting the wraparound effect as well.

The great thing about a Minelab is they null around iron. It doesn't get fooled by deep iron as much as the 3D. Which is terrible for some spots...BUT...when one hears that little 'spit' of a high tone after the null, you know you have silver on the ML's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 02:09PM by njnydigger.

CZ's do have a language of their own. Once mastered...... the rewards can be tremendous. Joe..... I do recommend trying different Grnd Bal settings...... even if your initial settings are only slightly off from 'spot-on' Grnd Bal. Ground balance settings can dictate HOW much iron will 'false'. This is true with nearly any detector.

I have found plenty of good/keeper targets with CZ's..... whereby, the signal would bounce between different readings. TOO many to discredit. A tilted coin (not quite on edge) ... will be in the side of a hole..... and/or not pinpoint in its correct/true location.

Toms Inland coin hunting video can be a big help also .