Finally got and E-Trac and I'm shocked at the depth - Video

I have avoided getting an E-Trac for years. I guess I wanted to avoid the cheery crowd that always posted all that silver, but I finally broke down and bought one as I found a good used one with warranty. I don't know if it's my soil, which is mild but with iron mineralization (according to my V3i.) but I had not found but one deep coin in years of hunting. I've had a Nautilus IIb, T2, still have an Omega 8000 and V3i. The spot I hit today I hit with my V3i and it got lots of coins, but the E-Trac found older and deeper coins. Eventually I will have to do a side by side to be fair. The interesting thing is that I weighed the two and The E-Trac is lighter by .8 pounds and I can hunt with it for hours with little problem - both with stock coil btw. Wish it was as light as my Omega though.

I went out today and pulled a silver ring at 7" and 6 coins from 7" or 8". I got the ring and 4 coins on film. All but one of these coins were on the small side, so I was really shocked at the depth. I had to pick those sounds out as the sound was a bit broken and the icon on the screen was jumpy, and lots of iron and a fair amount of trash. These coins were zinc and mostly small copper or bronze. I can only imagine how deep I'll go with silver. The one silver I did get at 7" the other day, hit very very solid, so I know silver and this machine go together well.

I'm just fessing up to wishing I had gotten this machine sooner. I do look forward to that new multiple frequency that Fisher has on the horizon though. I wish the buttons had a better feel to them (like on the V3i) and wish there was a quicker way to get back into a certain setting (like on the V3i) and wish the backlight was brighter. But, I can't compain about the depth.

Enjoy the video - 5 targets and it's 11 minutes long. I edited out a lot but left in the screens and audio as well as the last part of the dig,
Albert

[www.youtube.com]

Great video, Thanks for posting

Tom in SC

Nice clear, still video Albert, enjoyed it. I see your happy with the E-trac, it's a fine machine. I had about 40 or 50 hours with one I borrowed and hated to return it.

I'm not seeing great depth with mine but have been impressed with the consistent readings on the conductive side of things...even in red dirt. The Ferrous side varies and moves but the conductive side stays consistent. Some of my deeper coins have read as low as 27-30 on ferrous side but in the 39-44 range on conductive side.

Ever find any old ordnance?

Thanks for the comments guys.

TheOtherLeggoHead - I have found many full cartridges and think one grenade but I covered that hole up quick. The spot I'm currently hunting has a bomb in the corner of the field (my neighbor told me) so I stay away from there. I have found some quite large machine gun spent cartridges near that spot. My neighbor has found some HUGE bombs by train tracks but I'm just hunting where coins should be!

Daniel - Yeah, I guess you have exceptional circumstances but odd that it doesn't work better.

EMS

Nice video Albert, good job. I couldn't see the screen very well cause of the cover but from what you said I guess your hunting in manual the whole time so your soil must be really mild. I usually always run in plus 3 semi auto other wise there's way to much falsing
Thanks

Indeed the Explorer series likes deep silver and the V3i is the favorite of many and seems like you found what works for you and its only going to get better. For sure units go deeper...manuals are fatter..definitive improvements from all the manufacturers coupled with learning periods and lets not forget higher prices.
Having said the above for your golfers bowlers and the like indeed hobbies are at best expensive and will end with on my last trip to the park saw a grown man flying a model airplane costing hundreds of dollars and one crash landing and its gonzo.
As far as the bombs and unexploded ordinances be careful out there as they get more dangerous with age...

The ET doesnt have nearly the learning curve that my SE required..... but still thats a darn good start out of the box. With most machines you finds initially drop some what until you gain confidence and learn what its telling you. Depending on your area and depth of coins ..... you will be getting those deeper coins with a little more time behind the wheel. Daniel.... you may be listening to much to those louder targets. What helped me with the SE is reducing the Gain to get some modulation between the deep and shallow targets in the open areas. You have to train your ears. In trash.... i have my gain HIGH so the weak signals sound the same as the louder shallower ones and i can catch them easier. Now that ive learned i can hunt either way. Same with Ferr and Cond.... i use Ferr more in field hunting because it likes copper like buttons and sounds different on hot rocks. The disadvantage is those jumpy signals you see on your screen for the ferr numbers is happening also in the tones. You might get a ferr tone on the outside HALO of your coil that will totally change in tone when centered. The make up of your soil and how hard its packed does make a difference .... if for no other reason coins just wont sink as much.

Dew

Real nice video.
Your sink rate must be very fast.
I too have and like the Etrac.

Aaron - I couldn't see the screen well either! The E-Trac seems slow VDI wise between targets, so I was focusing on the sounds anyway. I had the cover on cause it was really muddy. Hopefully when my anti-glare screen arrives that will help things and I also have another cover to test out. I prefer not to have the cover on actually and thanks for the mention. I'll try it off if the mud isn't so bad next time.

Dan - I have to try the V3i out in this spot and see how it sees the deep ones. I was concerned that the iron mineralization was affecting it.. I will probably only keep one of these machines and am leaning towards the E-Trac just because of the weight and how it hits on silver. But I have to test this out to be certain. The V3i sure has better buttons, a better screen and is more flexible - but I'm just after coins.

Dewcon - I think it's a great idea what you said regarding turning up the gain in trash cause if you don't you'll get audio masking.

Markg - The sink rate at this spot seems pretty bad. I find Euro cents (less than 10 years old) at 4" some times. But I found an 1875 silver sized coin at 7" and the soil seemed the same there! ?

I'm really liking the E-Trac but as I use it more I find it's shortcomings compared with the V3i but vice versa also.

Yes the Etrac/Explorers slow processor is way up on the "to do" list for Minelab as agreed on before by the members on this forum. You need to get used to swing real slow especially in a lot of trash. I will say though that the Etrac is my favorite machine with the 5" SunRay coil in trashy areas. Now if we're talkin heavy iron like the late 1700s homesite I'm doing a excavation and digging pits at the only machine I will turn to is the LTD SE w 5" coil.
Albert, if your working in a lot of trash try running in TTF (2 Tone Ferrous) there has been a lot of talk lately from those on Finds with much success in pounded areas. I tried it myself in a real trashy area w lots of iron and I hadn't found any silver there in a year and was very pleased to find a 1943 war nickel. The only problem w TTF is it will wear you out cause everything sounds the same and if your only looking for one specific target you need to constantly watch the screen.

A real pleasure to watch and listen to someone truly enjoying what they are doing. Reminded me of a kid with a new toy. Unabashed joy!
Look forward to your upcoming vids.
My detecting buddy with the Trac also digs the deep productive holes. You'll get the silver coins soon

They do have a slow processor but i think thats longer look is what gives them the depth. They are about the only machine ive used that almost need no coil movement to work. There is and advantage to slowing down some times and having a machine that doesnt require you to swing faster for the filters to work properly. Going from a Whites to the Exp and having to slow down really helped the way i hunt.

Dew

Aaron,
Regarding TTF, I'm concerned targets will be missed with this setting. After speaking with Andy Sabisch, he speaks of what he calls "drag down", which refers to the ferrous numbers on a target dropping due to soil conditions, depth, etc. Since the ET uses a ferrous vale of 17 and below to grunt out an iron signal in TTF, a desirable target that would read 12 ferrous normally could readily drop into the 20's due to said conditions and grunt out, thus reasons for my concern. I've dug nice coins registering 20 some ferrous where 12 ferrous is their "normal" id. Since most would use TTF as a simple audible dig/don't dig...thus my said concern.

Anyone have thoughts on this?
Randy

Sabish is right and the E-Trac solves some of this problem from the Explorer. It has a wider field of view to give a signal on lower conductors.

The E-trac has a better response on low conduvtors then the Explorers but are still behind vs several other detectors on low conductors in mild ground.

Keith is also right. Higher frequencies tend to being stopped easier by minerals or dense dirt ( wich means the dirt contains more minerals pr square inch ) and clay, not only red.

Lower frequencies see silver and copper coins very deep cause they are not too responsive to minerals, minute fragments of rust, bits and pcs of low conductors and so on. But due to the same reason dont do as well on the better part of low conductors. Like gold coins, stone set women rings, earknobs, nuggets,

The million dollar question on FBS- why it seems to kill nearly all others on silver and copper coins and at the same time being easily outclassed on lower conductors lay in the main frequencies and the advertising.

They are very low frequency biased. No question about it. facts dont lie. Its just a puzzle interupted by advertising. And the reason why its still a puzzle. The truth dont fit the advertising.

Imagine a detector having FBS sensitivity and depth on silver coins as it is today but with a user option to put it in one single high freq mode when you want to.

Randy,

Considering the amount of knowledge and experience Andy has, I do not doubt what he says is true. However.....as I said, this is not my preferred program to hunt in with the Etrac, all I was saying is there are a lot of folks having success with it.
But.....check out the results then judge for yourself.


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Yes. Many have had great success in this mode. I must clarify, Andy has spoken to me regarding drag down. It was my paranoid mind that made the jump to TTF and how this mode may be affected by such...my engineering based brain refuses to stay quiet and forces me to think to much. I've been running 4 Tone Ferrous lately to try and benefit from a mode similar to TTF and in the process eliminate the don't dig sound caused from drag down if that makes sense, as I love the simplicity offered by TTF and being able to simply listen to audio.

Randy

Randy --

I understand your concerns completely. You think like I do.

I am an Explorer SE Pro user, and am VERY used to seeing much higher FE numbers than they "should" be, especially on deep targets.

Having said that, I am currently borrowing a friend's E-Trac, just to try it out and see if it offers any benefits over the Explorer. I have not yet delved into any "patterns" yet, so I'm just using his "normal hunt mode" pattern, which is essentially a quickmask screen where anything higher than I think "15" FE is discriminated. In other words, the lower 2/3 of the screen are "blacked out." Hunting with this disc. pattern though, I have the very same concerns as you are expressing in your post, about TTF, and the "drag down" thing. I have NO IDEA how bad the "drag down" may be on the E-Trac, but I know how bad it is on the Explorer, so I figure the E-Trac is the same -- deeper targets moving from that favored "12" FE number into higher FE values (teens? twenties?) I have not been comfortable running the E-Trac in this "disc. all FE numbers above 15 out" pattern, but have not moved it yet as I'm not comfortable enough with the machine and I know I'd dig a TON of "good-sounding" junk if I opened things up more and accepted FE numbers up to, say, the upper teens or low twenties. BUT, having said that, I am almost certain that the E-Trac will at times behave just like the Explorers, in that many of the deepest coins will read at much higher FE values than that "magic" 12 number.

I know I didn't help you much, but just wanted to let you know that I am with you on the logic...

Can anyone with more E-Trac experience chime in, and confirm or deny that deep coins can ring much higher than 12 FE on the E-Trac?

Steve

Steve, I'm clearly not an experienced E-Trac user but feel pretty comfy with the machine, relatively speaking. Today I went hunting for 3 hours and ran a minimal discrimination (Fe 28 and higher) pattern the first hour. I didn't dig many coins and it was a bit too much info. I went back to a Fe Discrim level of 17 and higher. I started pulling in the coins. I'll post the 3 minute video of the "dog incident" and one deep coin as a direct result.

Anyway, my point is that the E-Trac seems to do very well with discrimination and I think I might stick near the factory coin program for a while. Clearly you know Minelab better than me but many many guys have commented on how great the E-Trac runs with discrimination (compared to other detectors). Since Minelab is so secretive we really don't know how it does it's discrimination. I have a feeling though that it might be using a zero tone on the iron and not actually nulling it. (Like I run on the V3i).

Really interesting reading what you guys have to say about the E.

EMS

A HUGE Dog leads me to an 8inch deepie...
Click on the YouTub word at the bottom of the video to watch it on Youtube and then click the 480 resolution at the bottom.

[www.youtube.com]

earthman -- I'm going to check out your vid soon...very intriguing!

Also, just to clarify in case I may not have been clear; I'm not questioning how well the E-Trac can hunt using disc, in the way some older machines would struggle with depth when using too much disc. What I AM saying, though, is that if a target's FE number gets biased upward due to ground mineralization or whatever (and this DOES happen BIG TIME on Explorers), then setting too tight of a disc pattern on the "FE" side of things will disc that target out.

In other words, and this is of course a "no brainer," setting the machine to "disc out iron" by discriminating higher FE numbers DOES NOT equate to the machine discriminating (nulling) over IRON, it equates to the machine discriminating (nulling) over a target the machine has ID'd as being iron...and these two things are of course NOT the same thing! And it is these "deep coins IDing much like an iron target" that concern me...

I may not have been clear on my post, so just wanted to clarify.

Anyway, earthman, your running that higher disc pattern and finding too much junk, and then switching back to "17 FE disc" and hitting coins, is exactly what I would expect would happen to me at this point. TOO open of a disc pattern, mixed in with not enough E-Trac experience, would mean a full pouch of junk just to chase that one coin that super-deep and IDing as iron...not a good trade-off at this point, until I get better at understanding the machine.

For what it's worth, I run my Explorer at iron mask 22 most times -- which is essentially leaving two-thirds of the FE side of the equation opened up, as opposed to leaving roughly only 1/3 opened up as I am doing right now on the E-Trac. While the E-Trac's attempts to "normalize" good targets to FE 12 make this a non one-to-one comparison, I am still concerned about those coins with FE numbers being "dragged down," as Andy calls it, into the "junk target" range...

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2011 06:41PM by steveg.

Steve - I understood you. But think of this as this is essentially a repeating argument regarding coins falling into the iron range on all machines:

If coins do occasionally fall into the iron range, which they do, how many iron targets will you dig to find that one coin? Next, of that time spent digging iron, how much time could you have spent digging better signals? I just can't come up with an example where it actually pays to consistently dig iron signals, even if they may be somewhat smaller in pinpoint (as those are usually nail pieces anyway.) I don't mean this as a criticism. But you know more than me about the Minelab machines so perhaps I'm ignorant and grouping it along the other machines I've had.

Now, I'm not saying not to dig iron signals that might pinpoint like coins or something similar. But, I have found that after years of running no discrimination or next to no discrimination on my T2 and Omega, and then running iron tone 0 on my V3i - It seems like I'm having more fun and digging more coins, but yes, I am probably walking over some. I am not done however playing with running less discrimination on the E-Trac. I feel very confident in my ability so do want to learn the machine more. Now, when I "clean out" an area then I think it would be good to dig some of those good sounding deep iron targets. I actually dug three iron (new euro cent coins) in one hole today. I don't know how it happened but I got a broken coin signal, dug the hole and found one of three coins. I scanned it with my detector and it nulled. I opened the screen and it hit nice and tight like a coin. Think it read 12-36 or was it 26, I forget. I then found 2 more in the hole, stuck together. Not sure what my point was there, ehehe, except to say that it was a small sounding pinpoint, which is what I would look for if digging some iron signals. I know Carl at Whites said on the V3i he dug non Fe coins reading as iron.

Regarding the "dog video", it has happened before. My only silver coin at one site, I was lead there by a dog - Gustav (watch it on my youtube channel). It makes the hunt more interesting looking for coincidences and such.

I'm going to work on going through a trashier spot at my current hunt spot with the 8X6 SEF when it arrives (if the ground isn't frozen.) I was actually tricked today. I had a coin that I was barely getting a reading on, I mean barely. Not a good dig-able signal. It was when I had the sensitivity cranked up. I decided to dig a plug and when I flipped it, there was the coin 3" or 4" down. Was a great lesson on overpowering a target and having iron and trash below it. Anyway, I'd do it again, but it made me realized to be careful. I'm sure if I had been running auto at minus 1 to -3 it would have sounded very good.

Just a note, even though I'm not digging much trash, it's not because I'm running lots of discrim - that is only on the iron side. Remember I'm in Germany and coins hit all over the place. Even when I was running less discrim in the paragraph above, I wasn't really digging more trash, it was just a much more cumbersome - audio fatiguing hunt.

Albert

Albert --

You are right on all counts -- one will likely dig alot of iron trying to chase that deep "iron-IDing" coin, and no, Minelab machines are not "different" in that regard to other machines. They ALL are, just as you implied, capable of this (deep coins trending toward "iron" ID). And, yes, just as you alluded to, the time to really try this is at an OLD site with DEEP goodies, ESPECIALLY after you have cleared out the shallow stuff. You are absolutely right.

But, it's also a matter of "degree." You went from disc-ing out everything from 18 FE and above, and then you tried 28; maybe inching it up a bit would work out a bit better? I don't know. In any case, you are right -- much of the stuff that IDs as high FE, WILL be trash, and if you try to dig it all, you'll get bogged down digging junk instead of good targets.

The bottom line is, finding exactly where the "best" place to set your FE disc on the E-Trac remains a question in my mind. It's obviously a tough question with many variables; I like "22" on my Explorer; meanwhile you have been running it around 17 on your E-Trac, my friend runs it around 15 on his (which is what I've been going with, as I mentioned). I may try creeping it to 17 or 18 like you normally hunt, and see how that goes. Somewhere, the "law of diminishing returns" kicks in, and the junk digging becomes too much to be worth it (again, with the exception being on those "special" sites...)

Steve

Speaking of animal assistance. I used to detect the front of a very old school. There was a cat that lived in a house across the street. As soon as my knife hit the dirt, the cat would race over and start digging in the hole. And I mean digging. It was hilarious. Once I was done, it would trot back to the house and wait for the knife to hit the dirt again. Cool cat!!!

SteveG - Thanks for your comments and I stand corrected on one thing (at least ;-) regarding discrimination. I was re-reading Andy's book over the holidays and he was talking about deeper targets (p. 78 on). I recommend anyone with an E-Trac that likes finding deeper targets to read that page on. Anyway, he was talking about how the CO number remains relatively constant and the Fe number will often bounce with coins at depth. Now, I noticed that deep targets bounce, but didn't really have enough deep targets to say it was the Fe number (though I started to clearly notice it). Further (my "I stand corrected part") he said that if you open your discrim up to 24-27 you are going to notice those deeper coins. Now, I probably would have noticed many of them anyway, for when I get a deep signal that is iffy on the screen I open up the Quick Mask screen to see if it's bouncing. But I DIDN'T KNOW THAT most iron targets hit below the 27 line anyway, so when you get a bouncy target that hits lower than 28, it really is worth investigating. I'm going out tomorrow with this in mind.

This is something I love about the E-Trac. At depth that CO number is pretty constant but the Fe number drops. Now, on other detectors I've heard that coins start to hit as iron. That is true to a point on the E-Trac I've heard, but to still have some ID, CO wise, on deep targets, is invaluable. I really with other manufacturers would come out with similar VDI functionality.

Terra - Funny story, sounds like that was that cat herb in there. We had a cat toy with it inside and it drove the cat nuts, it was hilarious!

Earthman --

Thanks MUCH for the reply. I have Andy's book, but didn't read the sections specific to the E-Trac as I of course use an Explorer. BUT, while I'm borrowing my friend's E-Trac, it would behoove me to read the E-Trac sections of Andy's book. ESPECIALLY, starting on page 78, apparently. THANK YOU for that, as I am headed out tomorrow to hunt a new (possibly virgin) site tomorrow that several hours of research have turned up. I will be setting my FE disc. much higher than the 15 my friend runs at, and will see how that goes. It's good to know about that "28" thing for iron targets, and that Andy suggests maybe 24-27 on the FE end of things for deep coins. I'll set at about 25, and see how it goes.

The CO number stays pretty stable on the Explorers, also, on those deep coins; it's the FE number (just like Andy is saying about the E-Trac) that will bounce higher, with depth. I suspected that the E-Trac would do the same; some of this confirms it. Please report back and let us know how your hunt with a higher FE disc (but lower than 28) works for you...

Take care,

Steve

I am very excited to see this discussion taking place. I to , just recently purchased an E-Trac,no previous Minelab experience. And I also, was excited about using TTF, with enough disc to knock out nails. I seen all the excellent results of some users with TTF. But I became curious or questioning the 17 cutoff. So, I am now wondering maybe, use 4 tone ferous instead of , just use Multi Conductive ( as I would use this for my parks and schools).
I have not had the pleasure of putting the hours in, bad luck, since I am off work for two weeks and it is continiously raining here. But I have experimented inside my home and out in the yard between the rains. But the results just arent the same as real word experience.
What time I have used it thus far, the high tones are a bit much since I havent gotten a handle of the high tones off iron vs a conductive target.
I am really curious how some are doing so well with TTF, do you think they are missing the targets that fall below the 17 cut off?? Are they keeping a tight eye on their screen looking at the CO number all the time??
Maybe Conductive is the way to go, dunno, I have much to learn, targets to dig, good and bad. I am excited to get in the field.
Thanks and keep us posted,
HH,
John
Oh, one question if you dont mind. Since I am pondering, you are using TTF , you are most likely hunting an iron infested site. What sensitivity are you running, manual or auto?? If manual how much??

Yes John/Steveg, TTF and drag down has me concerned enough not to use, although I like the simplicity. John, I agree, for me hunting by tone alone using conductive I cannot discern between iron and higher conductive targets. I've found that the way Minelab chunks up 4 tone Ferrous though greatly differentiates iron from high conductive targets that have lower ferrous id, such a 12/44 or so with a good coin hit, where 4 tone conductive lumps in this coin number with iron. Also, I've learned that many that use TTF do so in high trash with little to no discrim, as it speeds up the reaction from target to target by not allowing a chance for the machine to null or blank.
4 tone break down by numbers are as follows:

4 Tone Conductive
   1-10, 10-25, 25-38, 38-50
4 Tone Ferrous
   1-7, 7-17, 17-30, 30-35

So, you can see from this how the latter may offer some better audio differentiation from coins to iron.

I don't have lots of time on the ET, hell, any machine for that matter. I'm learning different things as I go. The latest for me is that i've come to understand the volume gain settings and that I like setting this value around 1 opposed to the default value of 24, as there is no amplification of deeper targets. So deep and small targets sound deep and small, where larger and shallower targets sound as they are...much more natural for my ears.

Randy

Great video.