ETracs and deep silver... reading between the lines

Over at Find's ETrac forum I was reading these posts awhile back....
Seems Ray-Mo and DrBobinMO went detecting a couple old ballfields in Missouri... their posts:
16 silver day Perfect way to end the season!!
[www.findmall.com]
and
DrBob & I did another all day road trip in a snow storm.I rescued some small silver,2 big standing ladies and 2 larger walking ladies from the elements
[www.findmall.com]

Recaping what they said:
"That place has definitely been hit, if not there would be plenty of clad coins at the 0 to 5 inch range since it is a still active site. We got almost no signals at those depths except for some pull-tab signals, the clad had mostly been picked clean. But at the deepest depths.....well it was Wonderland"
"Never dreamed we would find as much as we did but the soil was very wet and we were digging dimes at 9" plus and the 2 Walkers were over 12""
"We braved to cold and heavy snow at times, fingers that felt frozen and for what?.......16 more silver coins!!!!! It was an unbelievable day. My previous best one day silver count was 13 and I crushed it! It was by far the most productive 8 hours of detecting I have ever had."

These two posts combined are telling me something... that the ETracs excel in finding the deep silver everyone else can not find. As I posted in an earlier thread I am holding out until the spring thaw to get another detector... ETrac on my mind... but hopefully something better will be coming out. My Tom tuned 1021 CZ-3D is a great machine but 7 1/2" on a silver dime is max in our midwest soil. I know the deeper stuff is down there, just have to get at it.

On their minelabs? Or other brands?

"Everyone Else" is running Bounty Hunters or Radio Shack's Best. The CZs are just as deep as the Etrac and in my SC red clay, arguably a little deeper.

In my soil, with my EMI...

Just remember one mans 9" dime could be another mans 7" dime. I'm not saying any detector is better or any detector isn't deeper but deep dime stories have been known to take on a life of their own

Won't argue that the Explorer series from the XS to the E-trac are deep silver units but so are CZ's from the CZ6 to the CZ3D and have gotten 10-12 silver dimes with either. Saw hunting buddy darn near to his armpit pulling a large cent with his 1266 and grabbing 8 inch silver dimes with a 5.3 coil of an XLT so the list goes on and certainly don't want to start any detector wars but take an experienced detectorists with a good unit and the deep silver will come.

Having said all of the above E-trac is certainly one of the best in experienced hands and again whatever works...

I will say after reading many posts over the years imagine shills can or maybe used to enhance detector sales with terrific finds and one fellow actually tried to pass off a terrific find as his own and the publication had to make a retraction when it was found not to be true. So again don't believe everything you read whether it be a post or an ad and only believe half of what you see...

one thing I realized after buying an ET and expecting to find all that silver "others" had missed,,,,,,,if it ain't there to find, your MD could go down 12 FEET and not find it for you !!! If soil conditions don't allow coins to reach depths that put coins out of reach for the masses then they are found by other MD and not there waiting for the deeper machines later.... if you dont have coins at 12 inches you dont need a deep machine

I have wondered about all the "great finds" mentioned and had avoided the E-Trac/Explorers for years. I heard about the V3i being potentially deeper and bought one. I really really felt comfortable with it and didn't at all find it complicated as others had said (though it sure has a lot of controls). I just wasn't finding coins over 5" at all and thought they just weren't there. I could test it and it would go deep in my garden, but test gardens you often know what you are looking for. I then PM'd a few guys who I noticed had sold their V3i's for E-Tracs and asked them why. They both said they got slightly better depth and slightly better performance in iron with the E-Trac. Since I'm not brand loyal it was an easy decision for me to investigate an E-Trac. As I posted here, in my first 2 weeks I had multiple days of digging 7" coins. Ok, not really deep, but suddenly after years of not really going much past 6" (and rarely at that) I was digging 7" coins consistently. Then I dug a few 8" coins. At that level the hits weren't super great, so I imagine on non silver 9" or so might be a limit. Most all of these coins were dug with grass around 2" - 3" or so, which I know is not what a Minelab likes. I was sold but I still have to cross check my V3i with some of these targets when the weather is better.

I think the depth we see more consistently with the E-Trac might be a combination of more of them out there and also the multiple frequencies (as is the CZ's) which probably works in more soil types. I look forward to that new CZ later this year. Hopefully it's light. I also have to mention that I think having the 2D screen with Fe coordinates really helps with deeper coins as even though I go to audio first and second, to see a Fe# bouncing but CO# consistent target, along with the depth meter 4/5 or more to the bottom, I know chances are that it is deep (as long as it doesn't sing loud - I have the gain a few points off max to avoid that.)

For me I avoided the E-Tracs because of all the hype. I didn't want to go with what everyone said worked - probably why I started coin shooting with a Nautilus IIB! But looking back, I think I would have been much better off to start with one, not that other units aren't also good performers, but rather I think my iron mineralized soil might have been a hinderance?

I use my Lesche blade to measure depth for as limegold... said - sort of, detectorists "lie" like fisherman do, adding inches to everything. I have a tape measure with me also. I have my pocket camcorder and I'm just waiting for my first 12" coin, probably will be a silver quarter sized one. I think I can reach that in my soil. After that, I might just quit as I reached my milestone! eheheh OK, probably not.

Unfortunately conditions vary so greatly tough to compare depth and such...fortunately for many coins in their area are not deep so depth is not as big issue and speed and ability to not be easily masked and handle EMI comes into play.

Hunting various areas in Pa. some areas all silver is about 6 inches and then there are areas where if you can't go 8 inches plus time to watch some TV..

Always remember hunting a drained lake with a CZ5 and getting down on my knees and literally scooping with a sand scoop until I saw a black disc at bottom hole...Well it turned out to be a walking half and I measured with my arm and getting home measured with a tape and right around 16 inches. Of course on land certainly not diggable
with a stock digger. In any case thats tops for me and my partners DFX wouldn't even peep and was standing next to him when he dug a barber half on land that had to be a foot deep.

I guess we all have our fish stories and thats mine so learn your unit well and in time you will have fish stories of your own..

Direct quotes from Tom's 'Fisher Intelligence':

'Another occurrence in a different area; I recovered a new corroded zinc penny about 2” deep, but masked almost directly underneath it, at a depth of 11” was a 1883 ‘V’ nickel in fine condition.'

'And one of my most memorable days ever: A coin spill; At 14” deep, I recovered 3 Barber quarters, 6 early wheat pennies (two were VDB’s), and a pair of 4” nails, all within a 8” circle - a elongated zinc penny high-tone reading on the CZ-3D.'

Are deep coins out there? You know it. I've found plenty of clad and memorial cents down to the performance depth of my CZ-3D (about 7 1/2") to know the older stuff is there... out of reach or masked.

I know Ray personally and have hunted with him on several occasions. We spent the entire day detecting yesterday. I have seen him pull many deep targets with his Etrac. He does not exaggerate and usually does not even post his finds. The Etracs do excel in finding deep targets and not just silver. Ray has one of the Nel coils on his Etrac and it does go deeper then the stock pro coil. We compared a deep signal yesterday that he was getting a good repeatable signal on and I could not really even pick it up. It turned out to be a real deep button.

I was out with another person last week and they were using an M6. We compared signals on three targets the Etrac called deep coins. The M6 called evey one of them iron. Two were deep wheat pennies and one was a small piece of copper wire. So yes. I believe the Etracs will find many coins missed by other detectors. There is more to it than that though. You have to get to know your machine and know what to listen for on the deep targets. I have seen Ray pull two silver dimes completely on edge and deep. One he called me over to check and I would have walked right by it. All it did was make a small blip but that was enough for him to stop and investigate and swing from different angles. It was pretty impressive.

wjs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know Ray personally and have hunted with him on
> several occasions. We spent the entire day
> detecting yesterday. I have seen him pull many
> deep targets with his Etrac. He does not
> exaggerate and usually does not even post his
> finds. The Etracs do excel in finding deep targets
> and not just silver. Ray has one of the Nel coils
> on his Etrac and it does go deeper then the stock
> pro coil. We compared a deep signal yesterday that
> he was getting a good repeatable signal on and I
> could not really even pick it up. It turned out to
> be a real deep button.
>
> I was out with another person last week and they
> were using an M6. We compared signals on three
> targets the Etrac called deep coins. The M6 called
> evey one of them iron. Two were deep wheat pennies
> and one was a small piece of copper wire. So yes.
> I believe the Etracs will find many coins missed
> by other detectors. There is more to it than that
> though. You have to get to know your machine and
> know what to listen for on the deep targets. I
> have seen Ray pull two silver dimes completely on
> edge and deep. One he called me over to check and
> I would have walked right by it. All it did was
> make a small blip but that was enough for him to
> stop and investigate and swing from different
> angles. It was pretty impressive.

Great stories. Curious, at those fringe depths did the coins read in or bounce into the iron range, say 20's? (E-Trac Fe numbers)
Thx,
Albert

that he was getting better depth than the stock coil? thanks

Do you know which NEL coil he is using? Interesting. And another factor... so many coins are masked. I am constantly reading about the ETracs pulling coins out of/near junk. That is another aspect of the ETrac. Working in junk even with the bigger coils.
Any comments on this?

He was using the bigger tornado coil the 12x13. Albert, I did not really look at his display to see where the targets were falling. Just listening while he swung over the target. Yes the Etracs are incredible at pulling good targets next to junk. It seems the more discrimination you use the better they excel at it. On some of my videos on youtube you can see it happen. My videos are under the name of dirtfishing.

Dirtfishing -think I subscribed to you!

The e-Trac has the setting Trash Density High - it appears to be partly responsible for pulling targets WITH high discrimination. I think it is at least some code that excludes the discriminated range out, when in the presence of non discriminated targets. All the more amazing to me as the E-Trac does not at all "seem" fast.
The 12X13 NEL I heard does get another 1" or 2" than the stock.
, but I wonder if it separates as well...
Thx for the reply.

wurthless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> one thing I realized after buying an ET and
> expecting to find all that silver "others" had
> missed,,,,,,,if it ain't there to find, your MD
> could go down 12 FEET and not find it for you !!!
> If soil conditions don't allow coins to reach
> depths that put coins out of reach for the masses
> then they are found by other MD and not there
> waiting for the deeper machines later.... if you
> dont have coins at 12 inches you dont need a deep
> machine


there is an element of truth in this statement!
more "depth" is always welcome,however,
there is plenty of good stuff "mixed" in with trash
at 'shallower" depths to keep us busy for a long,
long time!..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Ive had the E-Trac for about a month now. Probably have around 40 hours on it. Had trouble starting out, as I didnt want to use all that disc. But, I went back and sticking with the Coin Program. Ive found a Few coins, no silver.
I agree, you gotta have your coil over a coin.
I bought this machine because of what I have read on different forums of its unique abilities in the iron, depth was second, plus it didnt help me seeing all the nice finds I see on the different forums.
Im having to hunt in sites with less trash to get use to the signals. When I get in a site, like I was in today, loaded with nails and old iron, how can I say this, I am very discouraged. I get plenty high tones off iron, some I consider iffy, I dig and nada, piece of small iron or nail. I have gotten good pinpointing!!!!! I am still staying in Conductive, Multi Tones.
I have to say, I am wanting my old Tejon back, or maybe I should have opted for the T2 or F75, dunno. I am lost and discouraged. I know, I havent had much time and I will keep on for a few more months.
The site I was at today, I had been saving it, I always find coins or bullets, even melted lead. Maybe, it isnt for me.
Just hope I can stick with it, to get a handle on it like these other guys.
Im going hunting tomorrow with some friends on an old plantaion home/site just off the Mississippi. My old XL Pro is gonna go along on this trip. I am not gonna get skunked,hahahahha.
So, I am curious, if any of you know of someone that didnt hit it off with the E-Trac, do you mind telling me about it??
Thanks,
John

John --

You sound beat-up and discouraged for sure. These are great machines, but you do NOT have enough time on it, yet. It will click for you, I'm almost sure, if you can hang in there. A few things to help, which should build your confidence, and it sounds to me like that's what is needed at this point...

1.) If you are digging a TON of nails, try lowering your sensitivity just a bit. If you run too "hot," and are not used to it, the nail falsing WILL drive you crazy. You gotta find a level, at each site, on a given day (soil changes change the equation), to where the iron is not "too active" for you. Try auto+3; if that's too hot, try auto. If that's still too hot for you, even auto-1 or -2 might help. Whatever it takes, until you get more comfortable with your unit.
2.) MAKE SURE you dig only those targets that are repeatable from nearly all directions -- again, until you are more comfortable with your machine. SURE, you will be missing some good stuff near iron this way, but concentrate on the repeatable hits; it will cut down on all the "chasing of the iron falses" that it sounds like you are doing.
3.) I would suggest considering TTF if you are hunting in thick iron. I like conductive, but running ferrous can help at times in the trash. Again, you will miss some good/deep targets whose FE number is skewed upward, but you will be able to more easily pick out some of the lower FE number good targets from the iron that way.
4.) Don't forget to USE YOUR PINPOINT MODE to "size" the target. Dig the "round sounding" ones.

DON'T get too discouraged and give up. These machines take time to learn...you are in the "digging a ton of falses" stage; I was there, too. FBS machines do like to false off of iron, but hang in there, and focus on the targets that sound good from ALL directions, until you get more experienced with the unit. This should build your confidence immensely -- and keep you from wanting to turn so quickly back to a unit you are more familiar with. You really can "over think" these FBS units, in my opinion; I know I did. You get a blip of a high tone and think "hey, that could be a deep coin, or a coin next to a nail," so you dig it -- only to find a nail off to the side of your hole. Doing this over and over again, repeatedly, is FRUSTRATING and can kill your confidence. It's easy to do with these machines, because we buy into the depth hype and try too hard to listen for deep targets -- and end up chasing iron falses all day long. Focus on the good sounding targets from all directions for awhile; you will start digging more coins and less iron.

One last thing...here's a telltale sign of a nail, on these units. If you sweep from one direction and get a good-sounding high tone, and begin to circle your target, and at the 90-degree mark, it is either substantially degraded or even a null, and then you get to the 180-degree position, and it sounds pretty good again, and then as you rotate around to 270 degrees, it degrades to a much lower tone or even a null, and then back to 360 degrees and it sounds good again...that's a NAIL.

Hope some of this helps, John, and I hope it doesn't sound too "elementary." I'm just sharing some of what I did when switching to the FBS platform, thanks to the advice of several folks, in order to combat MY OWN frustrations (which sound similar to yours).

Steve



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2012 10:46AM by steveg.

Hey wurthless...

You said this:

Quote

one thing I realized after buying an ET and expecting to find all that silver "others" had missed,,,,,,,if it ain't there to find, your MD could go down 12 FEET and not find it for you !!! If soil conditions don't allow coins to reach depths that put coins out of reach for the masses then they are found by other MD and not there waiting for the deeper machines later.... if you dont have coins at 12 inches you dont need a deep machine

VERY good point. My soil conditions here do NOT seem to allow coins to get all that deep, in many cases. I may be wrong; maybe there ARE a boatload of older silvers down deeper, but in this dense clay we have, it's rare to see ANYONE dig a 6" coin unless the ground has been worked/fill dirt spread. If I am correct, then it explains why most of the good stuff has been cleaned out already; you don't NEED as deep of a machine in the soil we have here, in many cases, to make very good finds.

Steve

John - Just to add to what Steve said.

First, if you are hunting in iron you DEFINITELY should be using a smaller coil. You didn't mention your coil size? The stock coil will work but the 6X8 SEF or even 5" coil is the way to go and with the SEF you will get very very good depth. If you are using the stock coil, then all bets are off in heavy iron. It will work but for a person new to the machine that is having problems, it's not the way to go.

Second, (taking into account what Steve said here about sensitivity and circling your target) - switch to an open quick mask pattern to investigate the target. In my soil deeper coins bounce into iron. When I switch to an open quick mask, if they stay down in the high iron numbers, I don't dig. This coupled with changing angles is 90 something percent accurate.

Third, Don't be afraid to use lots of discrimination - first set up you machine with deep off, fast on, high trash on. Then use a fully discrimination pattern like Bill_S on Finds has.Here it is, it's a park pattern though, just for coins - [www.findmall.com] Don't be afraid to go slow, and don't be afraid to work faster - the E-Trac seems to like a medium speed swing. The E-Trac with high discrimination and the trash density setting on high, discards the discriminated range/targets out and focuses (almost pulls or locks onto) the non discriminated parts.

Fourth - If you are getting lots of nulling, like almost a constant null, that is a sign your sensitivity is too high. Use the machines recommended sensitivity as a guide and understand how it is working. Compare these two - Auto 23 and manual 23. Are they similar? NO, not at all. Auto 23 is the highest of the three auto channels (correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's the highest channel and not the average). Manual 23 is 3 channels at 23 sensitivity. Start with auto and if that isn't working go to manual and start dropping the level until it gets comfy. As long as you are in the 15 - 20 range roughly, you still should get good depth.

Lastly - You can try TTF. I don't like it all that much, but you can at least play with running this but not for someone new to the machine (like me and you, I only have 40 hours as well! I often hunt in a near constant null but am pulling coins at times from 8" - but not in that heaviest iron.)

Oh, of course you can put sounds on long. That will help coins to stand out, but it is rather hard for me but many swear by it. I stick with normal.

Hope that was helpful,
Albert

Great post Albert and thanks for the link. I have never tried a program for only coins, however I will try it out today. And yes, TTF is not a setting for a new Etrac user, it requires great patients in trash as you need to constantly watch the screen, however I did pull a nice War nickel out of a trashy area Ive been pounding recently.

And yes, I agree with the large coil in iron, a smaller coil is needed however, I use all the SunRay coils and I tend to use both the 8" and the 5" and with good results. The power of the 5" is not to be underestimated! I found a Wheat at a solid 8" with that coil.

You are spot on with regards to checking in Quick Mask. I learned this originally from Ralph Degraw @ SunRay. The iron, as I have found will go to extremes as it tends to go to the extreme lower right or extreme upper right. During Quick Mask the target will move and if it ends on the top or bottom its almost always iron.

One thing that bothers me about the Etrac/Explorer is the constant null in iron, but as Ralph had told me he had hunted in a park with heavy iron with nothing but a constant null and ended finding some real nice Barber silver. According to him, just because the Etrac is nulling does not mean it is not detecting. And I can validate this as I have found a couple coins right through a null.

Regarding sensitivity, from my experience...I've found that +3 Semi, is the best way for me. Whenever I've tried to hunt in Manuel, I'm plaqued with way too much falsing. I've spent alot of time and compared in both modes and Semi is what works best for me.

HH,

Aaron



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2012 12:47PM by Aaron.

Wow! Lengthy, thorough, well-stated........ and reads well.

Talking about the stock coin program I've found I need to open up the area CO 41 to 50 down a few numbers to include more FE numbers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2012 01:09PM by markg.

Just about to head out the door.
First above anything, thanks to all of you for the help and encouragement!!!!
Let me try and tell you guys how I hunt or have been hunting with the E-Trac and how I have it set up.
Setup--- I am using a pattern very similar to the stock pattern. (A trusted person sent me a pattern he used to get him going when he first started with the E-Trac,has the upper right open for big silver and still has a good deal of disc, almost exactly as the Minelab stock coin program)
Normal Response, threshold (just in the background,not loud), Limit and Variability at 30, Gain 20, Fast Off, Deep On, Difficult Ground, Heavy Trash. Sensitivity, Auto all the time, sometime +3 ( in a littered iron spot, I have started using it at the neutral position.)
In a heavy iron filled spot. And Im sure all of you have been there. I sweep slow, I listen to my threshold, when it blanks, I stop or come to a very very slow sweep until it returns. As I am sweeping, I may hit one two or three signals and I keep sweeping unless one of the signals have,has a good tone, most have a skewed signal like iron will give. When I do have an initial good tone, high,medium,low, I investigate. If it has a good tone from left to right, I go 90 degrees and most times in these heavy iron spots, after I have turned 90 degrees, the tone becomes iffy or disappears. I know, then, its most likely iron (but I have read so many stories of these targets turning out to be a coin in with iron). If it is looking fairly shallow, I dont dig, like maybe one to three inches. I also go into quick mask and move the center of the coil over the spot that is giving a good signal. Most times I get a reading in the 30s for the FE scale.
I get very many of these signals and Im sure you guys do also. I got them with my other machines, and I investigated them the same way, walking around the target, then dug if I felt it could be a coin. I just didnt have a FE scale to look at, but I could go into all metal if I was using and disc.
Also, somtimes I will get a really jump at you good left right signal, and like with my other machines, I raise my coil about 8 inches, and if it is still hitting, I know it is big and probably deep, so I move on.
So, I am sweeping very slow, to keep up with my threshold. I do work the target and use quickmask and reference the depth.
Maybe I havent been over a coin, I tend to doubt it. I dont find all the coins I see all the others posting, but I pomise, I do find them, in these difficult trashy areas. And not just coins but other conducitive targets as well.
Coils, I have a Sunray 8 inch coil, and I do use it. I didnt yesterday. I have gotten pretty good working this larger coil among the iron signals I get.
I hunted some old houses in town, the houses still up and the lots are not as littered with iron. I found coins in these areas, mostly memorial, wheats and few pieces of clad, plumbing and heating pieces, aluminum etc. But the coins I did find were mostly by theirselves with nothing within 4 to 5 inches.
I also want you to know, that I do know, it takes time for a new machine, especially one of the higher end machines, I know that. This being said, I am continuing to use the E-Trac for a few more months.
But today, (my buddies skunked me last time out) my old XL Pro is going along. I will use the E-Trac starting off for a few hours, and if I find something, it doesnt have to be a coin in these old spots, I will continue using it.
What I was curious or wanted to know. Is there anyone out there that didnt hit it off with the E-Trac, ( I mean after months of use) and why?
I just feel, really down deep inside, I should have at least found some kind of brass, lead, silver target at my old sites.
This got lengthy, and I am sorry. Ive got to get out the door, got a bit of drive ahead of me.
And I just want to thank all of you that responded, I really do appreciate it, and I do appreciate this type of forum,
John
Ok, Im late, I dont have time to spell check etc,lol.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John --
>
> You sound beat-up and discouraged for sure. These
> are great machines, but you do NOT have enough
> time on it, yet. It will click for you, I'm
> almost sure, if you can hang in there. A few
> things to help, which should build your
> confidence, and it sounds to me like that's what
> is needed at this point...
>
> 1.) If you are digging a TON of nails, try
> lowering your sensitivity just a bit. If you run
> too "hot," and are not used to it, the nail
> falsing WILL drive you crazy. You gotta find a
> level, at each site, on a given day (soil changes
> change the equation), to where the iron is not
> "too active" for you. Try auto+3; if that's too
> hot, try auto. If that's still too hot for you,
> even auto-1 or -2 might help. Whatever it takes,
> until you get more comfortable with your unit.
> 2.) MAKE SURE you dig only those targets that are
> repeatable from nearly all directions -- again,
> until you are more comfortable with your machine.
> SURE, you will be missing some good stuff near
> iron this way, but concentrate on the repeatable
> hits; it will cut down on all the "chasing of the
> iron falses" that it sounds like you are doing.
> 3.) I would suggest considering TTF if you are
> hunting in thick iron. I like conductive, but
> running ferrous can help at times in the trash.
> Again, you will miss some good/deep targets whose
> FE number is skewed upward, but you will be able
> to more easily pick out some of the lower FE
> number good targets from the iron that way.
> 4.) Don't forget to USE YOUR PINPOINT MODE to
> "size" the target. Dig the "round sounding"
> ones.
>
> DON'T get too discouraged and give up. These
> machines take time to learn...you are in the
> "digging a ton of falses" stage; I was there, too.
> FBS machines do like to false off of iron, but
> hang in there, and focus on the targets that sound
> good from ALL directions, until you get more
> experienced with the unit. This should build your
> confidence immensely -- and keep you from wanting
> to turn so quickly back to a unit you are more
> familiar with. You really can "over think" these
> FBS units, in my opinion; I know I did. You get a
> blip of a high tone and think "hey, that could be
> a deep coin, or a coin next to a nail," so you dig
> it -- only to find a nail off to the side of your
> hole. Doing this over and over again, repeatedly,
> is FRUSTRATING and can kill your confidence. It's
> easy to do with these machines, because we buy
> into the depth hype and try too hard to listen for
> deep targets -- and end up chasing iron falses all
> day long. Focus on the good sounding targets from
> all directions for awhile; you will start digging
> more coins and less iron.
>
> One last thing...here's a telltale sign of a nail,
> on these units. If you sweep from one direction
> and get a good-sounding high tone, and begin to
> circle your target, and at the 90-degree mark, it
> is either substantially degraded or even a null,
> and then you get to the 180-degree position, and
> it sounds pretty good again, and then as you
> rotate around to 270 degrees, it degrades to a
> much lower tone or even a null, and then back to
> 360 degrees and it sounds good again...that's a
> NAIL.
>
> Hope some of this helps, John, and I hope it
> doesn't sound too "elementary." I'm just sharing
> some of what I did when switching to the FBS
> platform, thanks to the advice of several folks,
> in order to combat MY OWN frustrations (which
> sound similar to yours).
>
> Steve

You are exactly right. I might add two things, First if the FE and CO numbers stay about constant, it's always a good target.
Second, if the FE/CO numbers bounce around I will then switch to quick mask and see what happens to the FE numbers (I actually use the location marker not the large numbers) when I start to rotate around the target. If they drop to, and stay above 25, I've found it's always a nail. I've tried to disprove this many times and it has yet to happen. This machine, once learned is a very deep seeking fun machine to use.

John - I'll defer to the more experienced E-Trac guys but it sounds like you are doing a pretty good job of it, just not finding targets.

Regarding why people left the E-Trac, the #1 reason I heard was they didn't like the flutey sounds and weren't finding deeper coins. I think you can miss deeper coins with the E-Trac as it's not you typical beep on coins as it is on most machines. Perhaps you should bury some coins at 5" or 6" and see what they sound like. Freshly buried coins aren't the same as those naturally buried but at least it's a start. And of course, follow your buddy around and cross check some signals to learn the sounds. You might want to go to a place with Clad to speed things up with the sounds. I did and then started searching for deeper targets.

Mark - I have yet to dig a solid mid 20 Fe number and it be a coin. But MANY guys have and those were usually those coins in the 8" to 12" range. At the bottom of page 80 in Andy's book is a story of a man who did just that. 15 coins (2 silver and 13 copper) at depths from 8" - 12" in a two hour period in a hunted site where most everything below 8" was already taken. The coins ALL fell into the mid 20's!!! So, perhaps we need to add a parameter to our digging those higher Fe numbers as it does happen. My soil is full of rusted iron mineralization so am pretty sure that makes it a candidate to find coins with mid Fe numbers.

I saved this quote from Tom:
In general...........flecks of rust will cause a target to 'up-average'. . . . whereas... solid iron objects (like nails) will cause targets to 'down-average'. Mineralization adds to the equation also.
Mineralization is somewhat unique in the fact that it'll cause targets to up-average ... as long as the targets are shallow-to-medium depths. But..... when the target is fairly deep...... mineralization (in general) will cause a target to ID as 'iron'. Tom Dankowski

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding why people left the E-Trac, the #1
> reason I heard was they didn't like the flutey
> sounds

Maybe they never figured out you can set it to 1, 2, 4 or multi on the sounds.....;o)

Well I made the whole day with the E-Trac. No coins found, by anyone. I found a couple bullets and part of a Crotal bell, someday Im gonna find a whole bell. The field we hunted was not litered with a lot of iron, I was able to turn Trash High off. I got a signal 12 01, depth meter pegged out. About 10 inches down found a small wad of aluminum foil. It was a nice day, out with friends doing what we like to do, hunting. In Auto, my sensativity ran about 29.
Want to thank all you guys again for your help and suggestions. I will hang in there for a good while with this machine. No way Im in love with it yet,lol.
HH,
John

FYI on the Park Pattern for coins....

I had uploaded that program and I dont know if its just me (and I need to do some more testing), but its really "iffy" on nickels. I tested a newer nickel and it wouldnt sound off though it registered right on the VDI. I then tried a War nickel and it hardly sounded off and it too registered on the VDI
.
The buffalo head nickel however, registered both on VDI and audio fine. Anyone else have this same issue with nickels using this program?

On a really good note, the $1 gold coin fits right there in the nickel disc pocket and sounds off great and the $5 gold coin is right on the far bottom left edge of the disc box with its target cut right in half @ around 32 and sounds off good.

Aaron



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2012 02:34AM by Aaron.

John --

From what you described, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. You know "what" to do...I do think it will just take time. And YES, there have been some folks who just didn't "click" with these machines -- usually the reason I see given is the tones, as earthmansurfer said.

Steve