Should we expect to get 12" on a dime on a new CZ3D in an air test?

I sold my 3D a while back (big mistake) and am looking for another one. I am a little leary about buying a new one even though the warranty would be nice to have. What if I ordered a new one and it only air tested 8 or 9 inches on a dime according to Toms standard. Would I be told by fisher there was nothing wrong with it and just be out of luck or would I be able to get it replaced? Maybe Dave or Mike would be able to answer. So, should we expect to get 12" on a dime on a new CZ3D with an air test?

I thought only single freq machines air tested well ? My CZ-21 isn't even close from air to real world depth.

To answer your question; the reality is probably a 'no'. I think DanPa may have had good luck.... and acquired a new FTP CZ-3D that air-tested at 12"...... and maybe one other person............ but it is more the 'exception' ..... than the 'norm'.

What do you think would be a realistic expectation? Thanks.

I believe FTP's specifications are now standardized at 8 or 9 inches on a penny or dime.

And that's exactly what Daniel told me when I sent my new 3D in to FTP (2yrs ago) when it would only air test a dime at 6"
Thanks to Mike Scott for getting involved though 9" was all it was able to air test at.

Heres my views I really feel the new Fisher is using parts from a different manufacturer which may or may not be the problem. Heck Tom can't alway guarantee more depth with his supertuning leads me to this conclusion....

Honestly don't think there is a manufacturer on the planet that will guarantee one 12 inches with their unit on a dime.

Using CZ's since 1992 every model some models more than once trying trying them all with a lean wallet having to sell to buy know a CZ will go as deep as any coil for coil and have found 10-12 inch silver dimes but most were perhaps in the 6-8 inch range.

I would say the average CZ is a 10-12 inch unit taking into consideration many variables...having older CZ's and not being a fan of airtesting know thats what I can expect in the ground where it counts.

Unfortunately Tom's original CZ3D has been downgraded whether it be parts or tuning procedures and really believe
one of these days they will no longer be manufactured.

Thinking back if I kept my original CZ6 which was upgraded to the CZ6A by the old Fisher it would still be working and probably pass Tom's validation tests but have no regrets as I learned a lot along the way and come Spring will be swinging a CZ that I know goes deep.

In addendum no reflection on any individual or manufacturer just giving you my thoughts and believe me lots of good units out there for guys and gals that learn to use them but again come Spring I will be swinging my CZ and well you use the one of your choice.

What I want to know is, what controlled environment is used to 'air test' these units ? One persons basement/porch/whatever is different than anothers. So is ones' hearing. In addition, what method is being used to sweep the coil or move the coin ? Is there any deviation in distance when this is being done ?

This 12 inch thing is getting on my nerves...I have to keep moving it from one side to the other in order to walk straight ! HA !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 08:01PM by therover61.

I would assume the detector electronics would be calibrated with a dummy coil, signal generators and other custom test gear. Coils are probably tested on a dedicated rig, too. The coil and electronics together would just be given a go/no-go test at the end. It's generally not a good idea to match coil and electronics, because when you put a different coil on, it might not work properly.

For the record..... I use a clad dime that is adhered to a 12.0" wooden dowel........ that is slightly smaller in diameter than a broom handle. This wooden dowel is then pushed into the ground.... until it is exactly 'flush' with the surface of the ground.

I have additional dowels of different lengths........... ie 11.0", 12.2", 12.5" etc..........

I used to use books for airtesting....I would lay an object on the ground and stack books on top till I got the signal to barley hit...Then use other detector for comparison...I like the idea for airtesting so I could keep all thing's equal...I might get it down to one machine had to scrub the top book but the other machine could take say another 1 inch of book or more.....

but the funny thing is the books had no metal in them but I could get slightly better depth without the books in the way!...The were dampening the signal to some slight degree...

Do you think the dowel dampen's any?

Keith

Yes..... but VERY minute'. But most importantly: VERY consistent. Variables removed.... scientifically REPEATABILITY consistent.

i HAD to switch to the dowel rods......... as my test-garden kept invalidating..... and at a rapid rate. I needed a rock-solid 'standardization'. (((Targets in my test-garden sink at a rate of 1" every 4-1/2 years........... welcome to sand-bar, boggy-soggy Florida!!!))).

Would a mixture of portland cement, some soil, and light sand work? No water, just a dry mix. That way, sinkage would no longer be a factor.

Sounds good Tom!!!

Funny that paper and wood dampens the transmit signal....

We can just imagine what kind of havoc dirt and mineral's are doing....

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2012 04:45AM by Keith Southern.

Soil, sand & cement can have different minerals........... even from 'batch-to-batch'. However; it should work ........ and can become 'YOUR' base-reference (standard).

Yes...... wood has trace elements in it. Even humans have trace elements of iron, zinc, copper....etc...........

Heck no one has even touched on the speed of the swing for instance the faster the XLT swing the deeper you will get a good signal and with a CZ a slow controlled swing will bring maximum depth.

Get an 8 inch coin signal and dig a trap door plug and you will notice the audio is now more pronounced and that ought to tell you something.

Giving variables from area to area I sort of smile as reading many air tests of various units it all depends on location
and the tester as you certainly see variances how deep a particuliar unit will go.

Down and dirty nothing scientific about it .....next time you are out in the field hunting with your CZ pull a dime out of your pocket and slowly swing it starting close to the coil to get the hotspot and see how far out and see how far out it will repeat and believe me you will know if you have a deep CZ or not as in most cases probably deeper than your buddies new technology unit...