Match by weight

I have the mangeled minnie ball that was removed from my great great grandfather, at the second days battle of Gettysburg. I was wondering if I could match the ball, to the rifle, by the minnie's weight. What do you guys think?

Quite a peice of family history ya'll have there Ozzie...NEAT!

Thanks Aaron, I also have his origional discharge paper signed by Charles Collis and a couple other officers. One of these days I'll post a picture after figuring how it's done.

I don't know if you can match the gun by weight of the slug. You might be able to tell the caliber of the rifle though.

That's what I was thinking schultzie. There were probably different gun makes/mfg's that used the same caliber. What may narrow it down is the fact he was shot by a sharpshooter/sniper.

Show us a Pic....Tell me what field he was shot in........tell me if he was a yank or a reb........You would be surprised how close you can get...there was so much recorded info from that battle...if you can get down to the field he was in you can find the unit that he was opposite .....Seriously any info you can garner..Lots of the unit's can be researched for the types gun's they even had...

does the bullet look like it has rings on it....or is it non ringed..

Keith

I know that he was one of Col. Charles H. T. Collis Zouaves, from August 7,1862, mustered out May 7,1865. He was in 114th PA Volunteer Infantry, Company I, out of Philadelphia. Yankee.
In Gettysburg, they were positioned on a slight ridge parrallel to Emmettsburg Pike, its left resting near Round Top, opposite Joseph Sherfy's House. As the battle continued, they had to move the line connecting Cemetry Hill with Little Round Top where they remained untill the end of the battle. They fought along side the 63rd.

The bullet appears to have two rings. It has a crease in it half way through, like it hit something either before it entered, or maybe it hit bone. He lived and served the rest of his term. His name was James M. Stowman, Private or Corporal, records are conflicting about rank. The discharge paper reads Private.

Gettysburg is almost 3 hours from me. I recently met a guy who was raised there but he's not a detectorist. I bet he knows some private land owners who would give permission to hunt.
I'm going to post some pictures soon, stay tuned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 04:27PM by ozzie.

Wow, that is so cool. Having that much info about a relative to fought in the greatest battle of the states. My dad has a musket that supposedly was used by a family member in the civil war but I've got zero info to try and confirm anything. It'll be lost in time I guess. Good luck Ozzie and keep us informed of your progress.

Lots of info there Ozzie....

You ought to be proud....

Do you know what day he was shot....

Sounds like he was over toward the peach orchard....

Does the bullet look like it has a cavity?
If so does it look like the right one or the left one in this pic...



if you can see the cavity the edge of the base should be visible...even though it might be distorted...Basically on the base of the bullet around the edge of the cavity does it look like there's a line like the one on the left of is it smooth like the one on the right?


Keith

Wow Kieth, it looks like the one on the left. It has that line/groove, and has the cavity. He was shot the 2nd day

It measures 15/16 " X 1/2" ....tough to measure because of the distortions.

Friendly fire crossed my mind, but there were snipers hidden in the rocks called 'Devil's Den'.

Your something there Kieth, I appreciate what your doing.

Sounds like you were almost there Keith....

Well if it's like the one on the left it was no friendly fire....That is the Confederate Gardner bullet.....it has the unique double walled bottom....there was a paper cartridge attached to the bullet inside the seam you see....they had a machine that would help them accomplish this...

From current understanding the outside wall was flared out till the paper cartridge was slid up on the inner wall then the outer wall was crimped down...thus having the paper crimped between the groove you see...the paper was filled with powder and sealed at the back about an inch behind the projectile...

Here's the way they looked new then dropped and left in the ground and also a fired version....



You stated it was half an inch...hard to measure with the out of roundness...It probably is a .54 caliber...

they came in .54 .58 and .69 but a .69 in huge......

you can weigh it and tell if it's a .54 or .58.....let me know if you can weigh it on a small scale...I will weigh a .54 and a .58 and we can get close...


that bullet was shot in lots of gun's but .54 are a little more less used but still widely spread even in 1863....We might get pretty close to finding out...

Confederate arm's records are not as detailed as the Union....but we can see what we come up with....

make sure that's the bullet though....there easily identifiable..

Keith

I wasnt there Aaron...LOL!!!

But I have read alot about the Battle....And it really was the Highwater mark of the Confederacy...So many different ways the battle could of went ...And by chance they fought where they did....

Makes one wonder what might of been...

I plan to visit the Battlefied one day...Thats one thing I want/must do .....

If I lived up that way...I would hunt that retreat route exclusively....they left alot of Men,,horses and equipment as they pulled south..

Keith

Simply commendable and spectacular.

Man Keith!...I know someone you NEED to get together with and do some hunting!

I am so left out here in CA! Best that I can do is...
My grandfather was one of the wounded in the burning of Atlanta near the very end of the CW. I do have a picture of him there... its called Gone With the Wind and he was an extra on the great wide angle shot of the wounded. I just don't know which one.
Tom

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Been researching a little bit today...and seems the hunch was right....I knew if he was down toward's the peach orchard that there was alot of Mississippi troops down that way and the were using the .54 caliber guns quite heavily...they're arsenals were stocked with them....They are known as Model 1841 Mississipi rifle's because of some troops from mississippi using them in the Mexican American war....after that the name stuck and they were very popular..

The deep south arsenals and state militia's were well equipped ith this weapon when the war broke out.....Many many of the .54 caliber weapons were used all the way through the civil war especially by the South...We dig the .54's alot here in the later 1864 North Georgia /Atlanta campaign...So they were very popular and very dependable...

So You GranDad was on the second day down at the Peach orchard....Very Very hard fighting went own in that spot...He being in the angle like that made it even harder..... he was up against Barksdale, of McLaws' Division, and was composed of 13th, 17 th, and 18th Mississippi troops....

They advanced to the House across the road belonging to Joseph Sherfy's..but thats as far as they could get and had to retreat as the line fell apart from the advancing Mississipian's...They were on some serious scorched earth right there.....

Here's an online grab of how the battle played out on that spot
The Attack

Sickles ordered the men in his Union line to advance forward from Devil's Den to this Gettysburg peach orchard because it was on slightly higher ground, but it created a bulge that exposed them to artillery fire on two sides. The lead defender was Union Brigadier General Charles K. Graham of the Third Army Corps. There were also nine Union artillery batteries in the immediate vicinity plus other long-range support from Cemetery Ridge and other elevations. They defended the orchard against the attacks of Confederate Colonel Edward P. Alexander and Colonel Henry Coalter Cabell's artilleries.

At 6:30pm, Longstreet's Corps ended the artillery duel and began the assault with a tremendous Rebel yell. Confederate Brigadier General William Barksdale advanced with his Mississippi brigade of 1,600 men, and on his right side, Brigadier General William Tatum Wofford led his Georgia brigade of 1,300 men. However, the 57th Pennsylvania and 114th Pennsylvania of Graham's brigade rushed across Emmitsburg Road before the Confederates reached it. They tried to gain a hold around farmer Joseph Sherfy's house, owner of the orchard, but there were many casualties and Confederates soon crossed the Peach Orchard.

Retreat

As the Union line was broken, Confederates knocked General Graham off his horse and captured him as a prisoner. The "Excelsior Brigade" of New York regiments were positioned in the orchard and along the road. The 73rd New York Infantry (the Second Fire Zouaves, a regiment of New York City volunteer firemen) also entered into the battle to fill a sudden gap in the Union line. They faced Barksdale's soldiers from the 13th Mississippi in an area of the orchard now known as "Excelsior Field". Sadly, several wounded Union soldiers who took refuge in Sherfy's barn burned to death after it was set on fire by the gunfire.

I have a few pics I have found on the net

First off here's a map of the Peach orchard for July 2nd 1864....You can see the area I circled with the yellow line is were your Grandad was at...


Here's the type gun the Mississippi troops were using in great number's ...the ".54 Mississippi rifle"


Here's a Painting of the 114th Pennsylvania Zouave's in the yard of Joseph Sherfy across the road from there line's ..this is were they made it to before having to fall back...


Here's a pic of the Monument for the 114th in the front yard in modern time's


Here's a close up


Here's a Dug relic like your Grandad would of surely worn at some time
A belt blate for the 114th Penn.Zouaves


Heres a flag they supposedly had with them at Gettysburg..Its in a Library museum now...


Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 04:26AM by Keith Southern.

What kind of sealant was used to seal the bullet to the paper?

Beeswax?

Keith, thanks for the great history read.

Kieth, reading your research resulted in goose bumps and watery eyes. I can't wait to tell my dad (87years old) about your findings. Well done Sir..... well done. Thank You!

That's awesome info!

This is why I love this hobby, I probably wouldn't do that research being up in Maine and having no connection with the Civil War, but I love reading about it, and once you start reading a thread, you just can't stop reading it, well done guys, this is a fun place

There's so much to say about the Gettysburg battle That it would take a lifetime to talk about...

If you get a chance watch some the youtube video's of the park tour's.....watch the second day and it will deal with the peach orchard....

The Peach orchard battle was bloodbath for the poor Yankee's.....

To give you a quick idea of what went down.....And this is just from memory ...I would have to go look it up to get it 100% right but what happened was the Union dug in on a line running South from Gettysburg across Cemetary ridge then down to Little round top and ending on Big Roundtop...pretty much a due south line.....

Well Dan Sickles was in a spot South of Cemetary ridge but not far enough South to be on Little round top....He had the unfortunate circumstance of being on the low ground ..So he pulled his men West of the line to get out of the low ground...When he did this the line was then extended into the Peach Orchard along Emmitsburg Road...This created the angle in the line you see on the map....Very very dangerous!!!he was then subjecting his mean to crossfire!!

He did not have order's to do this and when Meade found out about it he sent a dispatch to ask what was going on....When Sickles recieved the letter he asked Meade if he should pull his men back and Meade said....Sir!!!!I dont think the Reb's will let you pull back now!!!Then the bloodbath started...By the end of the day Sickles was back where he was supposed to be that morning but at a cost of if I rememeber right 4,000 men wounded and killed...Your Grandad was one of those ....Lucky enough to survive though...


Sad in away so many men killed because Sickles was not a Military man he was a politician who thought he knew more than West Point Graduate's....
Sickles also ened his military Career on this day he was hit in the leg from a cannonball......

Longstreet was the one attacking Sickles that day and a rare thing occured ....The attackers lost les men that the defender's...rare in 19th century warfare...

Longsteet said it was the best 3 hours of fighting of the entire war!

Again Glad your Gran Dad made it....Or you would not be here now....Gotta think about it!

Keith

Thanks Keith,

I have a good friend of mine of 20 years who's GG grandad was also at the battle, as a surgeon, we often wondered if maybe, he pulled the slug from him.

My wife and another couple are starting to make plans to visit Gettysburg this summer. One of the friends was born and raised there, and said he could arrange a day or two of detecting on private lands.

Tip of the hat Keith relative research. Actually a coin hunter myself but imagine in those days variance in weight may have been large due to poor quality control and machinery of that time which may add to establising any accurate data.

Years ago my wife and I visited the area and was quite an experience.

Last but not least be careful where you hunt even on private farms and such as much federal land in area and some not clearly marked and you could lose your car, detector and be taken off in handcuffs and pay a stiff fine.

Detector dealer right in town and he could certainly help in that aspect and did have a nice shop and knowlegable info to share..

That's what I've heard Dan, don't want to break their rules, as they are real serious. Any boys from Gettysburg here?, can you fill us in on the rules & regs?