I would say with the Minelab 3030 Battery box being that large

it is working on a pulse type platfrom...It takes a lot of Juice to energize the coil.....If it was just like an ETRAC it could use 8 AA"s that pic looks like it has a dang motorcycle battery on it LOL...Alot like the GPX machine's...

I would think that it is using the FBS system with sort of a P.I. twist...Maybe they are sampling the multi freq's and decay rates somehow on this unit...Maybe they are getting the Disc to work by firing a mix of freqs and then shutting down then starting up and sampling the decay rates left from the different freq's though some sort of comparator ??

I would think it would be less effective than a straight pulse as far as depth but would give more depth than any VLF going in bad ground with better disc abiltiy..

I would think a Hybrid type would be less on over all depth at the cost of a disc circuit than having a true GPX5000


They wont have it out do the GPX5000 we know that but that's a stand alone specialty machine..And why would you cut your profit's...

Unless they have a GPX5500 coming and the price is going up on that unit to $6500.00 LOL!!

All speculation...But that big box with todays micro electronic's could only mean big battery and that means lot's of juice like a P.I.Require's...

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 02:09AM by Keith Southern.

Interesting observation Keith.

To be honest with you, I"m enjoying the DEUS so much right now, I really could care less what else comes out. The next thing I plan on spending any significant amount of $$$ on is that supposed 5" DEUS coil.

Now that my freind.....will be the cats meow, in IRON!

Maybe that battery box is a flotation device to keep the detector afloat if it is dropped in the water... well at least the rear end will bob on the surface.

Hi, I think it kinda looks like a weed whacker so maybe it comes with an attachment so you can also do some weed whacking and clear out some new spots to hunt.....That alone would explain the big battery box??....But it's also possible that the GPS and color screen requires more power to run it.....JJ

Hi, Whoops I looked at it again it might not be a battery box it could be the muffler?? JJ

Keith - You might be on to something. But, GPS uses a lot of battery and a color screen uses more than a regular black and white. But, to keep the weight down, perhaps that battery is a lithiom one which makes the amount of energy even more. Judging by the price of the machine, it is.

All I have heard is that it is FBS that is using more frequencies, instead of 28 something like 47...

I returned my Deus to fund this (we have a 2 week by law return policy in Germany for things bought on the net). I actually like the Deus, but in my iron mineralized ground the VID was ALL OVER THE PLACE - worse than a T2. It worked down to 7" and beyond that it completely cut out. Great sounds, but at the extremes of depth they all had an iron tinge to it, but somewhat noticeable. Still my second favorite machine. If the CTX works out for me then I'll sell the E-Trac and get another Deus (I doubt the CTX can be as good in iron.) I sure loved how light it was but I didn't run into such bad iron that I needed Deus Fast.

Albert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 09:01AM by earthmansurfer.

The battery system on the GPX machines are big in due part to them being lithium batteries AND having an amplifier in them so that the prospectors can use headphones OR a separate speaker mic that attaches to the battery pack harness. They also basically have the internal charger circuitry too.

In the advancement of the last few years in batteries, the lithium ion batteries are basically being phased out, and a newer technology being brought in...LIPO batteries. They can be made to any shape or form while still packing a huge punch. So I'm saying you are probably correct....I think the battery pack is going to be something like a LIPO battery and going to be able to give this machine the go-go juice. The Blisstool detector uses a LIPO battery as well.

The big complaint with the GPX machines is having to be tethered to the separate battery pack....you have the main control box under the arm cuff and a separate battery pack that a big coiled wire is attached to that usually goes behind you on a harness. So you are bound to the machine by this short cord....and then you must either use a set of headphones or use a external speaker...either way, you are bound to it by another cord.

Thus I think Minelab saw a way out of this....via integrating the wireless thing in it and being able to use a smaller battery pack (than what is found on the GPX) that they could mount under the arm cuff, thus eliminating a separate system and being tethered by cords. I'm telling you folks...if this CTX machine is balanced like the GPXs are with just the coil/rod/control box....you are gonna love it. It actually hurt me to go back to a T2 after using the GPX....they are balanced extremely well.

I look for Minelab to introduce a newer GPX in the near future....it will have the wireless technology and smaller LIPO battery pack as well. That almost gives me goose bumps imagining that LOL


One other thing....note the similarities in the names of the units.

I can't remember for sure what GPX stood for....wanting to say it was Gold Prospecting something or other. Then you have the CTX....maybe it stands for Coin/Treasure something or other lol. I can't wait til next weekend when we'll find out more info on them. I certainly have my ears perked.

47 frequencies, that will make it a lot heavier, maybe it's a first aide kit, just thought I would add a little humor to the hype, just wish some of these machines didn't cost so much, 2500bucks for a machine, with all these people out of work, how do they think they are going to make money, I'm spending my $45,000 /per year for my daughters college education, they better hope I live older enough to pay it back



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 12:05AM by Caretaker.

My wife still owes $20k on her college education....two college degrees hanging on the wall, a B.S. in science, and the only job she can find is working at a local feed/grain store as a cashier for $9 an hour.

Jobs are tight.

But with people finding treasures in their backyards like Ric Savage and his "team" do every week on TV....well what is $3 grand on a metal detector when you're finding $20 grand a week in relics to sell. Hhahah

Reading this portion of a recent patent by Minelab's Bruce Halcro Candy, suggests that FBS2 probably allows the operator to change the transmitted signal to enhance different target responses.

Using an input control 9 such as switches or some other input an operator may alter the said fundamental frequency of the said repeating switched rectangular-wave voltage sequence, and/or the waveform of the said repeating switched rectangular-wave voltage sequence and/or the synchronous demodulation multiplication functions to select square-wave and/or time-domain and/or sine-wave synchronous and/or receive signal weighted synchronous demodulation multiplication functions or any other synchronous demodulation multiplication function. These parameters may easily be changed using digital technology. For example, in terms of transmit frequency only, it would be useful to set 1/T at say 2 kHz if an operator is seeking USA coins, Bronze-age or copper-age tools which are relatively conductive, or 1/T would be better set to say 6 kHz to seek small gold nuggets or many ancient European coins which exhibit relatively short eddy current time decays.

The entire patent can be found here:
[www.faqs.org]

Yeasty, watch the CTX video when they are showing the Fe CO screen. You can see the man actively/repeatedly pulling the pinpoint trigger. I mentioned this on the other forums as clearly he wasn't just pinpointing. Hmmmm...



Yeasty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reading this portion of a recent patent by
> Minelab's Bruce Halcro Candy, suggests that FBS2
> probably allows the operator to change the
> transmitted signal to enhance different target
> responses.
>
> Using an input control 9 such as switches or some
> other input an operator may alter the said
> fundamental frequency of the said repeating
> switched rectangular-wave voltage sequence, and/or
> the waveform of the said repeating switched
> rectangular-wave voltage sequence and/or the
> synchronous demodulation multiplication functions
> to select square-wave and/or time-domain and/or
> sine-wave synchronous and/or receive signal
> weighted synchronous demodulation multiplication
> functions or any other synchronous demodulation
> multiplication function. These parameters may
> easily be changed using digital technology. For
> example, in terms of transmit frequency only, it
> would be useful to set 1/T at say 2 kHz if an
> operator is seeking USA coins, Bronze-age or
> copper-age tools which are relatively conductive,
> or 1/T would be better set to say 6 kHz to seek
> small gold nuggets or many ancient European coins
> which exhibit relatively short eddy current time
> decays.
>
> The entire patent can be found here:
> [www.faqs.org]

I think what we are going to see is FBS ON STEROIDS!

Earthman says it has some sort of trigger switch..

Wonder if it's a dual machine hunt in either FBS or P.I. and switch back and forth for target analysis..

Just a thought..

One thing for certain is that black box is 100% the battery...and look's like it was made removable from the rest of the machine if need be...Machine electronics are probably sealed up and the battery screws on and off with a seal in between...Probably connects through some simple contact's?

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 08:34PM by Keith Southern.

Here's some wild speculative conjecture for you.
The present FBS basically transmits a burst of 6KHz followed by a burst of 22KHz, and then does clever analysis of the return signal to generate 'more than two frequencies worth' of information. But it still has those two frequencies at the heart of it. Sometimes the same analysis system, but running at, say, 3KHz and 11KHz may give better results. It is possible the new FBS2 transmits 4 fundamental frequencies in some alternate-type manner, eg. 6/22/3/11/6/22/3/11......etc and does it's best to alert you to a target, But... with the addition of a Left-Neutral-Right (or similar) trigger-switch, you can force it into higher-frequency (6/22) or lower-frequency (3/11) mode. This gives you twice as many samples per second at the selected frequency, which may help get a better ID, and also allows you to find the optimum frequency. It may also help eliminate false signals, and more.
Just an idea. Don't think about it too hard...

I notice it does show a vapor trail on the screen when the trigger is pulled...You may be on to something Pimento...it might get a better analysis through more freq transmit's....Maybe it's finally a multi freq unit LOL!!!!

Good info

Keith

I heard from a VERY RELIABLE guy that the new machine is using more frequencies. How I don't know, but it is. We are getting closer ;-)

Chew on this guys, from a TESTER on MLO when asked about the coils being backward compatible with E-Trac, Explorer, etc. (Pimento and Keith, jump back in please ;-) :

No, for reasons soon to be made clear. Older Explorer and E-Trac coils will not fit on the CTX (or vice-versa) ... totally different technology.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 10:57PM by earthmansurfer.

Curious. I noticed the CTX coil says CTX11 on it (11 inch?) but of course it could be technically the same as an existing one, just packaged/badged differently. The obvious non-compatible bit is the waterproof connector. Also, if a coil is designed to work over a greater range of frequencies, it needs to be more carefully designed, so the induction-balance null is maintained over that frequency range. Plus there are other bells-and-whistles they may have added, like an anti-copying identification IC (like Vflex on the XTerra's), and an 'In-the-coil' pre-amplifier.
Though I suspect it isn't a PI-VLF hybrid, it is worth pointing out that PI machines can work well with DD coils, so it may be possible. The requirements are usually different (number of turns of wire/shielding methods etc), but it is feasible, there is a Polish-made detector on the market (LEM2) that does both methods.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 08:51AM by Pimento.

I hope for that much money that it is some new technology...If they are jsut analyzing with more freq's in the same basic manner as the FBS does now I can see some performance gain and more accurate I.D. but that much more money?

The coils are probably not compatible because of the waterproof connector? But maybe not...But and here's a big but...Manufacturer's are starting to build coils that only they can make....X-Terra for the most part till recently...DEUS definately will not have aftermarket coil competition..

Could be just the type move to get more of our money for themselves ....Wirless headphone's on whites only use whites headphone's and they are expensive...DEUS can only use DEUS wireless phone's and they are expensive...

So the coil might not be some super technology but simply a marketing ploy to get your money to them only....but who can blame them....I ms ure the waterproof connector is going to be a custom job not some off the shelf piece...That right there would stop infringement..


I dont think we will see a fast machine for unmasking with even more freq analysis going on it might get slower? But who know's...

Minelab concerns them selves with mineral probelm's....XP concerns them selves with Iron unmasking....I consider these 2 companys not the normal do-it-all machine manufacturer's but specialty machine manufacturer's...

Nothing touches a minelab in bad dirt period....
XP is in a leauge of they're own in iron unmasking...

If the 2 could get together and build off each other's technology...well we might have the ultimate detector LOL!!

It's starting to get interesting now that technology is feeding down into the detector market.....So much can be done now through processor's...The next few year's ought to be mind blowing..

I just read where the newset I-Phones are going to be made with Liquid Metal What is that????non scratching glass super thin chasis....The technolgy a phone can do is unreal ...

Keith

Liquid metal ??? What for? Just for nerdy completeness, it is possible to make a liquid metal at room temperature (apart from mercury, of course) - they are alloys of (mostly) gallium and indium, I recall.
Edit: Here you go:
[scitoys.com]
The answer to 'What for' is likely to be heat conduction - cooling hot electronic bits.
Edit again: No, I'm wrong, this is what you're describing, I think:
[www.cultofmac.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 12:33AM by Pimento.

At this point in detectorology.....I just don't see any quantum leaps in improvement. As Keith points out....its niche improvements. But the price for these incremental improvements is really jacking up the cost of units. I think the real cheese is going to be in coil development and corresponding software to utilize the coil innovation. The ability to 'see between' the trash, far beyond what we are getting today. Right now, I would rather invest in 'LOCATION' than the newest bells/whistles for getting results. There are so many trashy areas where depth, and more of it is a fruitless pursuit. The bulk of the goodies still out there are masked from current technology. More depth only serves a small segment of the hobby..eg...relic hunters...water/beach hunters. JMHO

Yes thats it Pimento....

Looks like they are able to inject metal ....Just like a plastic is done in an injection mode...

Very unique process...thanks for looking it up..

Keith

Hey TerraDigger I like the word detectorology....

Give me a nail bed anyday compared to an open field with finds 2 foot deep...

I like my find's 6 inches deep and masked by a fistfull of nail's

I know it sounds crazy but thats where the goodies are at.I like staying in one spot all day not moving just me and machine trying to get a few pieces of history..

I love the challenge of the hunt...I love the competition...the competition with the iron that is...

I have sites to hunt the rest of my life...But I have to admit these XP's are really the cadillac for such site's.

But then again they are a total Niche machien for iron...


Keith

XP's ability to "adjacent target separate" is a quantium leap.
XP's ability to audibly ID a nickel-and-a-dime independently...... that each coin is 50% overlapping each other is a quantum leap. (18-Khz only)

I'm right the opposite of that Keith :-) I'm a wide open gogogo kind of guy. I would rather fill a whole display case of relics in a weekend rather than spend my time at one spot sorting through nails for finds that may or may not be there. I slow down once I hit a relic rich environment though. I guess it all depends on WHAT you find in the iron. Something like Kevin Bs martingale would be worth it...but a couple bullets and a busted eagle button ain't cutting it for me....not when I can cover the ground and get two or three times that many :-)

Going to Virginia really hurt my relic hunting. Before I went to Culpeper, I was happy spending all day locked down at a home site hoping for one button or a bullet. Then I went up there and spent 3 days....filled a big case full of relics, dug a breastplate and close to 100 drop and carved bullets and 20+ buttons...well that kind of hunting twice a year has spoiled me. I rarely hunt locally any more due to that very thing. I can find more in one weekend up there than I can in a year down here.

Down this way Daniel the camps moved everday....Johnston fell back through Ga like wildfire....

The battlfields are beat to death and the camps are as well...Talk to the hunter's around here no one is digging hardly anything since the construction stopped...

My edge is House sites most people wont hunt them for your exact reason's...but I can tell you my best finds have come from house site's on the march routes or the battlefield house site's...It's very hard work and some times it's dead for a few month's...But relics most guys say ain't even possible for this theater I have personally dug even in the last year...

So yes every one has a different approach...And I know what you mean about filling up a display case in a couple of day's..I used to do that In South Carolina a decade ago..If you ever get that type hunting under your skin you would probably hate to dig anywhere else!!! the digging is so easy and the relics are pristine...Tons of button's for sure down there..

But it's either quit or keep going and look for an edge...

But iron hunting is slow go...But to be honest with you the buttons in house sites come out better than the woods sites around here...the house sites have habitat dirt more loamy and rich... the open areas are red clay and they destroy buttons for the most part...

Here's a Button that's very rare for the Atlanta Campaign...Yet it was dug in hunted to death house...But I do know the Confederate Cavalry was on this road...Actually it is Mississippi Cavalry,,,

Stuff like this keeps me awake at night...LOL!!


Late war sites dont produce stuff like this usually ...Only the officers still had such item's but guess where the officer's camped..

But yes fast and quick is nice too...But I like to research and study maps and find old spot's then slowly take my time working on them...I have all the time in the world and just have to go out my back door literally to hunt old homes sites...No joke....I have a house site in my back yard about an 1850's one.....chimney well hole and all..good place to test detector's...

I love Iron hunting what can I say...LOL..And I am obsessed for the most part trying to get one more piece of history out of iron...I love a Challenge..And love learning everday a little bit more about why certain things happen like they do with detector's and iron...thats one thing that DEUS has allowed me to do ...I can swap parameter's and freqs and play with target's even more.....But thats just me....I love to learn anyting I can about target behavior in ground..

I like being able to verify with freq changes what you THINK should happen ...It's more than a Hobby is it not.....

Thanks for the reply Daniel...

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 05:40AM by Keith Southern.

Thanks Keith/Daniel for your input.......LOCATION....wherever it may be. And I hunt both ways that you guys described. Tom D...yes.....the niche machine is valuable if it justifies the price tag. I may offend some, but I see so much machine swapping/selling on the forums everytime a new high end machine shows up. And I do love new technology. Definitely not a Luddite.
I just feel their is too much reliance on the newest technology upgrade vs tried and true detecting basics which we are all aware of, so no need to list them here.

Hey Terra....I had to look up Luddite...

Now it makes sense...LOL...

Sometimes I feel like an idiot when I read other peoples post on here,,,,I have a very limited vocabulary...

But yes...

Even with new machines I myself have a very specific need and that what I look for ..But now someone else might not ever have a need for that approach..So what work's for you might not work for me...

All machines are very close the way I see it...it's the Niche machine that can get the extra say 5-10% ??? over a Multi purpose machine..no matter what that niche machine may be......Experience and hard work and an understanding of the in's and out's of your personal machine can go along way's against a dedicated type machine...But I myself do want that little edge...it's just how much are you willing to pay for it...10% more finds but pay 100% more cash...

Gotta want it bad...But How bad....
Keith

I started this hobby many years ago. I used a White's model with no discrimination and a big heavy blue box. When I pulled my first copper I knew what I wanted to find. More! I will go to the parks and look for Mercury dimes just like everyone else. But for me the ultimate finds are colonial coppers and two hundred year old coins. Here in Pa we have houses that old plus. Most are farm houses or houses on Main St. in the local towns. Do you know what you encounter at 200 year old houses? Iron. I enjoy pulling targets from iron also. Hunting small yards 50 x 50 ft all day. When I pull something out of an ironfield it is almost like taking something back that was supposed to stay lost. I'm also convinced that the Gold coin I strive to find will be found in the iron. And I'm not giving up this hobby until I find one. Another thing about hunting yards is I won't have to dig a million pull tabs to find one. I hope!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 09:39AM by goodmore.

We can learn from Europe. The older the site........ the more the iron content; hence/subsequently........ the more masking taking place.

As I continue to hunt in iron nail infested areas.......... it is most interesting to watch the stat's/ratio's/percentages for 'old/valuable' finds increase to uncanny disproportionate unsuspecting numbers. ((( You don't know.....what you don't know )))

Nearly all of the items found/recovered in Ft. Meade, FL were in heavy iron. This includes the gold coin. Many items were in such heavy iron/nails ..... that pit excavation was the only method (with current-day extremely limited technology) to acquire these targets. There's a few articles on the home page of this web-site with high-resolution photos showing exactly this phenomenon. My oldest coins have come from square-nail infested sites.

What I need for inland hunting:

Detector #1 = A detector that can locate non-ferrous targets amongst extreme amounts of iron rubbish.
Detector #2 = A detector that has extreme depth performance with reasonable audible ID differentiation between ferrous and non-ferrous.

This is also to say: Detector #1 should have reasonable depth performance; but not suited for clean (minimal trash) areas............ yet, detector #2 is just the opposite....... and is NOT suited for high rubbish content hunting; rather, it IS suited for low-trash open-field hunting..... at extreme depths. Both detectors need to handle mineralization.