More marketing from Minelab

I just can't get excited over it! Too expensive, too heavy and loaded with a bunch of useless to detecting features. What the h3ll is happening to the Art of detecting? It is being overtaken by the addition of bells and whistles.

Yup marketing is doing its job, move customers up the "product" line of higher profits.

Pick your sites, use your head (and ears) put a couple hundred (or lots more) hours of detecting on what you have if you are looking for real success.

But it will all come down to how it performs. None of us know that so to come to conclusions is a bit premature. I am a bit mixed, so see both sides of this argument, but I'll try to add a different perspective.

I think we can't overlook the color screen. IT is not just color for the sake of being color. The colors are tied to the Fe Co numbers I hear, reliably. I'm a visual guy with good hearing. To have both is awsome.

I have spoken to someone who used it and though he couldn't tell me a lot, he did say it was MUCH better than the E-Trac, that is saying a lot. Even without the GPS and Mapping, how much extra would one pay for a waterproof E-Trac? That is a huge feature.

As far as the weight, the person who used it said it feels substantially lighter than the E-Trac due to the balance. The shaft is carbon fiber, all the weight is in the back apparently. (They had to make it weigh a bit for water use. I would have preffered a lighter unit just water resistant to be honest.)

Many people record their finds, well, you can have the machine do that for you with GPS and Mapping. Sort of a nice and automated way of looking at different spots and comparing results. I'm not excited about these features though. The thing is, I believe the machine is still simple, it's not a V3i with tech features. It doesn't have a pinpoint button but now has a trigger, that is great.

It does look to be expensive but I'll try one if it isn't too much. I live simple and have one real hobby in detecting. I can justify, even on my meager teaching salary, to spend 2000 Euro on a machine if it's for 5 years. I mean it's my passion. People go and spend 50,000 on cars and don't think twice. It's all relative in the end. Anyway, I don't look at money as money, I call it points, which is what it has become with all the printing of it and inflation. So, how many points is it worth to use something cutting edge, in the water, on land, etc?

I don't think we can fight "advancement" per say. If the unit doesn't sell then Minelab learned their lesson. It's that simple. Look at how the V3i did in sales. I'm not knocking it, but it was too much for too many people and Whites even tried changing that with the VX3. Manufacturers listen and the new CTX3030 was created according to comments from the forums, I heard from a tester.

Albert

Well said earthmansurfer! Hey, can ya do me a favor...talk to my wife and explain the whole detector purchase like you did here, haha.

Minelab knows what there doing. Look at their past performers. See how anxious everyone is and all the talk and speculation, caused by their marketing. I think this is going to be a detector we are going to figure out how to purchase.
We are helping their sales just by a few words in our posts, example; "he said it was MUCH better than the E-Trac". That right there spicked up my adrenaline. I for one can't wait for my buddy to get one.

I totally agree Albert.

So why not discontinue the Etrac and call it the E Trac II? Why should we wpend another 600.00 to 800.00 for features we don't want? Better than the E trac sounds great. But not with all the bells and whistles. And the E Trac was supposed to be better than the SE Pro too. Depends who you ask.

We have all been around long enough to know it comes down to one thing dig or not dig. And that has always been determined by the ears. Not by a color screen. Especially one under two feet of water. I just keep getting the feeling detector companies are rewrapping the same thing in a new box.

Deeper? My Etrac goes deep enough in the dirt. I really can't and don't want to go deeper there. Most parks have the no shovel rule. Most people that let me in their yards I promise to do a nice job digging. In the woods roots are always a problem. No on more depth. Most of my targets are no more than 8 inches anyways. The majority around 4 to 6.

Target seperation? Probably not with that big Pro coil. After using the Deus one can easily reconize how slow FBS is. We used TTF to help and still missed a ton of stuff. They might have improved this somewhat, but not up to what I get with the Deus or probably what others get with the Fisher brands.

Target ID is probably where they made strides. If it keeps me from digging holes I don't have to dig I am all for it.

But not for that price. I'll wait for FBS2 in a lower model. One made to replace the Safari.

I am all for new technology in detectors. But it has to be about detecting in my eye. Not satellite links.

I did notice it has a clock. I like that. But Deus beat them to it.

The word of mouth from central europe is that it ID s correct a good portion deeper then the other FBS...

And has better and more accurate ID...

Many will think that is worth it right there...

deathray - What I do with students is talk about value and exhange. Money numbers gets us all going in the wrong track - looking at the number but not really what we get for that. I really like the exchange approach, just apply it to a detector. How many hours do you need to work to pay for $2300 or whatever it costs? Now ask, How often will I use it and for how many years? How much joy will it bring you? Etc. I use this logic and sense to "justify" buying organic food. Instead of saying it is 30% or more expensive, I just say, How many hours do I have to work for a weeks worth of healthy food that is good for the environment? When I looked at it, it seemed that the petrochemical industry subsidized (in a sense) all the fertilizers to keep the costs of regular food very very low. But now organic is coming down and often is the same price. Hope I wasn't too far off track there, but you get the point. So, ponder this and come up with something for your wife ;-) Oh, and let us know how it goes. Remember, don't get emotional as emotional is more interested (not totally) in being right than it is in truth... :-)

Goodmore - I really do see what you are saying, but until you turn one on, how can you go on and on? We have reports that I know are pretty valid coming out that say it's a great machine and you are talking about the past. Don't let the past stop you from seeing the future and I don't mean that in a bad way. I don't know how much depth the CTX will get in sweet ground but I hear it is VERY GOOD in badly mineralized ground, but we'll see. That is why I'm looking at it. The Deus is great for the shallower stuff in my iron mineralized ground and it's a pleasure to hunt with and folds up nice, lite, etc. But, I would like to get from my current 9" or so wall down to 12" - and I know it's from the iron mineralized ground. The CTX might give me that. I think you are right, I think we'll see FBS2 or something close in a lower model later in the year. They should offer something more affordable in this economic situation.

Balance is everything and I wholeheartedly agree with what Daniel said in the other thread: "I'm telling you folks...if this CTX machine is balanced like the GPXs are with just the coil/rod/control box....you are gonna love it. It actually hurt me to go back to a T2 after using the GPX....they are balanced extremely well. "

Mark - Thanks for having my back. eheheh :-)

frnifo - Yes, agreed (and it's waterproof! )

Albert

Heck you only go around once and money is no good unless you spend it and lets face it Minelab makes a good product built to last so if one can afford it go for it.

Certainly not knocking the other two high priced units that just hit the bricks as I feel they are excellent also but lets face it Minelabs with its Explorer and Sov. series have proven themselves over the years not to mention their gold nugget units which seem to be tops in their field but have no experience as all we have are coal nuggets.

Having said the above and past my prime in my mid 70's using a 12 year old Explorer XS would get as many silver coins as the next guy in a short 2 hour hunt or perhaps as much clad and gold rings in a short hunt in local parks as the next guy with a mid line Technetics Omega .

Lets all go back 20 years and I would without a doubt be standing in line with you fellas in buying one...so good luck guys and gals and let us know how you like it and certainly the pros and cons would be a plus for the second wave of prospective buyers..

"but until you turn one on, how can you go on and on?"

I guess I'm angry at the price like most. I was indeed looking forward to the Sovereign replacement. They are so close to what I wanted. They just had to add all the extra stuff. I hope they do come out with a cheaper FBS2 model. I will be all over it.

Like most I do have a limit to what I can spend. I made the leap to the Deus and it is just what I wanted for the areas I hunt. The VDI does bounce more than I would like. But over all it does what I need it to do. So I will be more than satisfied to wait for a cheaper model with great FBS2 performance.

I can tell you are anxious for this detector. I wish you great success with it. I also look forward to your great videos.

I was in Nuremberg while I was in the Army. Just for a visit. I was stationed in Hanau. Beautiful Country!

I think I'm a little dissapointed Goodmore, as well. I really liked the weight and portability of the Deus (and I still might get another one but my funds are limited, very much so). Like you, the jumpy ID is bothersome but I do see they didn't design it to be a coin shooter, but more sound driven. Who knows, maybe they can add a coin mode with a more stable VID.

I really just wanted an E-Trac that was water resistant in a Deus sized package and maybe 300 more in cost - reasonable for the latest. Could you imagine that! Many of us did. So, I feel a bit of your pain but that said, yeah, I'm still excited (probably because of how the E-Trac performs in my soil and to think I might get down to 12" or so, lots beyond 9" that VLF can't touch well in my ground.)

I will try to make some nice videos, but being that I'm on a bike I can't do a comparison video. Thx!

People here in Nürnberg are really friendly (once you get to know them) and are quite peaceful. That last part is still a bit of culture shock for me. I look forward to hitting some unhunted spots, there sure are some out there.

Looking forward, should be a fun day on the 11th, more speculation, etc.

Albert

Hey Jackpine man where have you been hiding lol!!

I dont hardly ever see you post anywhere anymore....

I was wondering a few weeks back what came of you...

You been following the DEUS?

I know you like to hunt old iron holes...

Things fantastic for that purpose..lot's of language too..

good to hear from Ya..

Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2012 10:14PM by Keith Southern.

Jackpine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just can't get excited over it! Too expensive,
> too heavy and loaded with a bunch of useless to
> detecting features. What the h3ll is happening
> to the Art of detecting? It is being overtaken by
> the addition of bells and whistles.
>
> Yup marketing is doing its job, move customers up
> the "product" line of higher profits.
>
> Pick your sites, use your head (and ears) put a
> couple hundred (or lots more) hours of detecting
> on what you have if you are looking for real
> success.

well said! i concur! i truly think we are getting "sucked"
in by additional useless features that just keep getting
costlier,and costlier,in a concerted effort to entice us.
(w.t.f!)

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Minelab marketing's job is to create within you a sense of dissatifaction with your current equipment. The dissatisfaction has to be great enough to overcome the price point of the solution to this new sense of dissatisifaction. Is it working on you?

HH
Mike

I will wait until more info comes out. I think we will all have to evaluate how much we will pay for our detectors. I know I will be looking for honest reviews so I will be watching this forum. News from the Non disclosure guys is very thinnly sliced. But they say it is something really good. I expect that. This whole waiting thing is annoying to say the least.

Yeah we cant get any real info yet...Because the only Guys who have used them are hand picked by Minelab...If they ever want to test any other Minelab machine's they will have to abide...

We are still a month away from any real info about true in field performance that can be un-biased...but you have to watch out for the people who want to hate it also...

I have always said SOME metal detectorist are a strange bunch,,They will fight and argue over detector's ...WHY?

I would rather have a machine made in the U.S. for my hunting preference's but I have to go with what work's if I am going to spend time in the field I want the best equipment for My intended hunt pattern's and requirement's...So if it's American Bulgarian Chinese or whatever If it works better in the job I want it to do that's what I want...I do not care about the name on the side ..But I sure do wish American made is the one I require/need...

But as the Rolling Stones said one time in a song called "You Cant Always Get Want You Want"..... .......... That's very true you cant have everything...

I hope it does something great in bad dirt...But ??? We will see...

Keith



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 05:29AM by Keith Southern.

For those who are intrigued but don't want to pay full fare to be a beta-tester, remember that advertiser-sponsored forums have a vested financial interest in accentuating the positive and downplaying the negative.

The forum you're on now will no doubt have the least biased reviews by the some of the most technically skilled users.

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Minelab marketing's job is to create within you a
> sense of dissatifaction with your current
> equipment. The dissatisfaction has to be great
> enough to overcome the price point of the solution
> to this new sense of dissatisifaction. Is it
> working on you?
>
> HH
> Mike

Mike....great point. Now bump it up a notch. Isn't a lot of marketing meant to do that in a way ?

I know for me, I am done for a while buying new machines. I have too many now, and don't hunt as much the past 6-12 months so for me I can't justify it...YET. Over time, when I sell a few units and save up, I am sure the CTX will be in the mix as well as the Deus, the Blisstool and the new CZ whenever that comes out.

My E-Trac is darn good for hunting in trash and finding coins, and if it's raining and I want to get detecting, I use my CZ6a. At the beach, the waterproof units come out and it's dig all in most cases anyway so I really don't need accurate ID, just a good interpretation of iron vs non-iron.

If I calculate what I have spent on new machines, and what I have lost selling them to get another new machine....never mind.

, so they are saying. The etrac coils will not work on the 3030, according to gary brun.

The Explorer/eTrac connectors are not waterproof, therefore they 'should' not work. In addition, Candy's recent patents describe preamplification within the coil so maybe that is part of the new design. If so, those coils will be expensive!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 02:33PM by go-rebels.

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we can't overlook the color screen. IT is
> not just color for the sake of being color. The
> colors are tied to the Fe Co numbers I hear,
> reliably. I'm a visual guy with good hearing. To
> have both is awsome.
>
> It does look to be expensive but I'll try one if
> it isn't too much. I live simple and have one real
> hobby in detecting. I can justify, even on my
> meager teaching salary, to spend 2000 Euro on a
> machine if it's for 5 years. I mean it's my
> passion. People go and spend 50,000 on cars and
> don't think twice. It's all relative in the end.
> Anyway, I don't look at money as money, I call it
> points, which is what it has become with all the
> printing of it and inflation. So, how many points
> is it worth to use something cutting edge, in the
> water, on land, etc?
>
> I don't think we can fight "advancement" per say.
> If the unit doesn't sell then Minelab learned
> their lesson. It's that simple. Look at how the
> V3i did in sales. I'm not knocking it, but it was
> too much for too many people and Whites even tried
> changing that with the VX3. Manufacturers listen
> and the new CTX3030 was created according to
> comments from the forums, I heard from a tester.
>
> Albert

As always, you write a compelling post. I agree and as I said elsewhere, if this FSB2 allows me to find more and better stuff, I will surely give this machine a try. This hobby is, as you said, my passion.

Pinpoint twice, dig once



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 01:59PM by pulltabMiner.

Hey Albert,I lived in Germany in the mid 70s. Lived in Herzoganarach ( sp?) and went to elementary school in Erlangen. All I remember is good candy,lots of fairs,topless girls at the pool and crappy weather. Take care,Ray

Thx Pulltabminer. Follow your bliss.
Deathray - I'm in Nürnberg, not that far from Erlangen. Don't ask me to spell what you tried, I know of it, but can't spell it either. I'm an English Trainer, not German. ;-)
Topless girls, hmmm. I will say Europe as a whole, as much as I've seen, is very open, not all sexually bound up. Much more relaxed here from what I can gather. Erlangen is where a major college is. Connecting that to the girl statement... better leave that.

No matter what marketing machines and methods a company may use, it all comes down to our ability to discern. I mean it is awfully hard having a television, which I haven't had in over 10 years now (thought the internet sort of supplanted that), and being able to know what YOU really want and need, as we are being told from the time we are children what we wanted and needed and I'm afraid most can't differentiate the two. As one of my favorite human beings once said "Culture is not your friend." ;-)

Albert

ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Minelab knows what there doing. Look at their past
> performers. See how anxious everyone is and all
> the talk and speculation, caused by their
> marketing. I think this is going to be a detector
> we are going to figure out how to purchase.
> We are helping their sales just by a few words in
> our posts, example; "he said it was MUCH better
> than the E-Trac". That right there spicked up my
> adrenaline. I for one can't wait for my buddy to
> get one.


pichin' the buddy huh? his money works too! right?
he! he! he! good strategy! he! heh heh! eheh!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Minelab marketing's job is to create within you a
> sense of dissatifaction with your current
> equipment. The dissatisfaction has to be great
> enough to overcome the price point of the solution
> to this new sense of dissatisifaction. Is it
> working on you?
>
> HH
> Mike


sorry! don't buy it! you give them too much credit!
don't believe they are thinking that way,OR they are clever enough
to convince anybody otherwise! don't see it! most of the guys buying this are older,
and it's dangerous from a marketing perspective for them to assume we are "stupid!"
my 2 zincs!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

marcomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those who are intrigued but don't want to pay
> full fare to be a beta-tester, remember that
> advertiser-sponsored forums have a vested
> financial interest in accentuating the positive
> and downplaying the negative.
>
> The forum you're on now will no doubt have the
> least biased reviews by the some of the most
> technically skilled users.


i agree 100% this needs to be understood by everyone!
as it's the "dead nuts" truth!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

jmaryt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Hillis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Minelab marketing's job is to create within you
> a
> > sense of dissatifaction with your current
> > equipment. The dissatisfaction has to be
> great
> > enough to overcome the price point of the
> solution
> > to this new sense of dissatisifaction. Is it
> > working on you?
> >
> > HH
> > Mike
>
>
> sorry! don't buy it! you give them too much
> credit!
> don't believe they are thinking that way,OR they
> are clever enough
> to convince anybody otherwise! don't see it! most
> of the guys buying this are older,
> and it's dangerous from a marketing perspective
> for them to assume we are "stupid!"
> my 2 zincs!
>
> (h.h.!)
> j.t.

But being vulnerable to the psychological ploys of marketing doesn't mean being stupid.

Most folks discount the effect advertising has on them.

Wonder why they keep doing it?

i already have a dumbell for exercising with so why do i need the ML dumbell as well ,dumbells are cheaper than a ML machine