3030 Interesting technology....Can Tom figure it out?

Quoted from the finds board........You have the ability to see multiple targets under the coil simultaneously. With the color coded animation of Target Trace Pinpointing, you can isolate each target and identify the ferrous and non-ferrous properties of each. HH Randy
Sounds like we are getting close to actually seeing into the ground what the target is.

possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quoted from the finds board........You have the
> ability to see multiple targets under the coil
> simultaneously. With the color coded animation of
> Target Trace Pinpointing, you can isolate each
> target and identify the ferrous and non-ferrous
> properties of each. HH Randy
> Sounds like we are getting close to actually
> seeing into the ground what the target is.


apparently so! candy's a pretty sharp guy,and you can bet the ranch
the "patent" is good for at least ten years! our best hope is johnson and crew
can "trump" with their own proprietary design.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Now...the 64 dollar question is this.....is it strictly ferrous/non-ferrous identification or the ability to truly discriminate (to E-Trac standards) each separate target under the coil. And how many 'multiple' targets can it handle simultaneously?

yeah! good point! not disagreeing,however IF it can identify the targets as ferrous/non-ferrous
as the coil is swept,does it matter? if the screen separates the two,then one can just dig
the non-ferrous targets? at this time in the morning,that's the best you are gonna get outta me!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

What are you boys doing up so late/early?

Looks like it might be displaying more than one target on the Smartscreen. I also noticed the wireless module will work with your choice of headphones. With them showing the Xcal headphones.... they must be going to put a plug on the Xcal headphones. How are they going to fully submerge the headphones and wireless equipment..... or are you going to have the option and those headphones will be attached.

Dew

All sounds great to me...but, can it handle bad dirt better than my 2 ET's? If so, i'm very interested.

jrk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All sounds great to me...but, can it handle bad
> dirt better than my 2 ET's? If so, i'm very
> interested.

I think definitely yes. It has a GB function just for that purpose.

Regarding the thread topic. The CTX is still VLF technology. I'm sure they are doing some clever things but not too much for Tom not to figure out.
Look forward to those first videos and such to get a better idea.

"You have the ability to see multiple targets under the coil simultaneously. With the color coded animation of Target Trace Pinpointing, you can isolate each target and identify the ferrous and non-ferrous properties of each"

The V3i already does it

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You have the ability to see multiple targets
> under the coil simultaneously. With the color
> coded animation of Target Trace Pinpointing, you
> can isolate each target and identify the ferrous
> and non-ferrous properties of each"
>
> The V3i already does it

Completely different Aaron. You can actually see, at the same time multiple targets on the screen. And if you pull the pinpoint button, I believe it will stay there, if I understood the tester right. I actually suggested this on a forum but with just the VID numbers a while ago but no one liked the idea :-( I thought it would be handy for when you hit multiple targets in a short span and can't isolate them.

I sent you a PM before about CZ5. Would really like your opinion.

Albert

Albert

Albert, I PM'ed you back a few hours ago...

There are still a lot of questions I have about it. Although it sounds interesting....I'm not really seeing much appeal for me to want one, as a relic hunter in bad ground. Of course I've not had one in my hands but I think this will be one that I sit out on. It sounds like a coin hunters friend though...just not so keen on it being geared as much for relic hunting. Unless I've over looked it, I don't think it has a motion all metal mode on it either. That is going to hinder it in really bad ground for my style of hunting. Even though it has a manual GB button, there are still questions about that. I.E. does it auto track even after you ground balance it...and if so, what speed does it do it at? Or is it lock track when using the manual GB button. If it locks and keeps the GB point that it finds when you press the button....that is a plus...but the big thing would have been had it of had this, AND a motion all metal mode.

The GPS thing don't really appeal to me. I can get a REALLY good color handheld unit, and do everything the integrated one can do...plus much much more with more detail...especially with larger capacity micro SD cards.

The big thing about it, looks to be in favor of the coin hunters that were looking for something with more precise ID for extremely trashy areas. From the sound of it, my balance assumptions were dead on the money though. They took that from the GPX machines and there are going to be some very shocked people when they pick one up to start hunting with it that thought it would be a battle ax to carry around.

I hope it doesn't do only auto-trac for ground balance. That would be a disaster. I'll bet the GB can be locked.

Telling the good stuff from iron is a great one. Separating masked taskets is why I bought the Deus. I hope this new Minelab can do that for people. I hope it works better than the old Iron Mask feature. We should soon see some videos of this being done.

GPSi uses the high performance and flexibility of a u-blox GPS
positioning engine to seamlessly integrate location and time data with
detector settings and target information. This creates WayPoint, FindPoint
and GeoHunt files that are compatible with XChange 2.

Smartfind 2 greatly enhances Minelabs FeCo Discrimination to analyze
and display a targets Ferrous (Fe) and Conductive (Co) properties
on a full color LCD. Ultra-fast microcontrollers carry out digital signal
processing to provide significantly improved target separation.

FBS 2 combines Minelabs FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave
transmission (1.5 kHz 100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector
communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector
electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection.

Wi-Stream uses efficient low-power digital audio transmission to achieve
no perceivable audio time lag (<10 ms) from the CTX 3030 to the WM
10. With multiple channel capability, this wireless technology provides
reliable communication with maximum sound quality.

The CTX 3030 uses advanced electronics and signal
analysis to give you much more information about
buried targets than any other detector.

With FBS 2 , Smartfind 2, GPSi and Wi-Stream,
Minelab takes the Worlds Best Metal Detection
Technologies to the next level of performance.
Key Technologies
*Supplied with Standard Pack only. Available as accessory for Starter Pack.
^ Available as accessory.
Software

Overview Ultimate performance multi-frequency TREASURE detector with enhanced FeCo
discrimination, integrated GPS and wireless audio options, all in a sleek rugged
design that is waterproof (IP67 rating) to 10 ft (3 m).
Search Modes 10 fully customizable, including 5 preset (Coins, Beach, Relic, Silver & High Trash)
2 Pinpoint options (Normal and Sizing)
Discrimination Patterns 20 fully customisable (2 per Search Mode)
Discrimination Type Enhanced Color discrimination (35 Fe x 50 Co = 1750 segments), Target Trace,
Target Trace Pinpoint, Tone ID Profiles, Target Separation (Ferrous-Coin and
Ground-Coin), Accept/Reject cursors
Ground Compensation Auto Compensation and Auto Ground Balance
Noise Cancel Auto and Manual (11 channels)
Threshold Level adjustment (150), Pitch adjustment (130)
Sensitivity Auto and Manual (130)
Display Full color LCD with backlight and adjustable brightness (110)
Standard Coil (CTX 11) 11-inch waterproof Double-D smart coil
Audio Outputs Built-in speaker, standard ¼-inch non-waterproof socket, custom waterproof
socket (Minelab accessory headphones only)
Wireless Audio (WM 10) No (available as accessory) Yes (supplied with detector)
Headphones KOSS UR30 (100 ohm) supplied with detector (non-waterproof )
Batteries (Li-ion pack) Yes (with fast charger). 12 V car adapter supplied with Standard Pack only
Batteries (8 x AA pack) No (available as accessory) Yes (supplied with detector^)
Length Min 37 in. (940 mm) Max 55.3 in. (1405 mm)
Weight 5.20 lbs (2.36 kgs) including Li-ion battery pack
PC Connection XChange 2 (via US compatible with Windows XP, Vista and 7
Key Technologies FBS 2, Smartfind 2, GPSi, Wi-Stream

For quickly accepting or rejecting a detected target, the Identify function
saves you time and effort!

When editing discrimination patterns, there are four edit frame sizes to choose from. Use a fine
edit frame for precision targeting or a coarse frame for quick results on the go. Edited patterns are
automatically saved within your current Search Mode. Auto accept/reject discrimination features
are also available for fast pattern editing using sample targets.

Target Trace displays many
detections per second to offer
greater visual detail of a targets
identity. Multiple targets are
displayed as colored hot spots, or
streaks, across the Detect screen
turning everyone into experts.
Choose to have on or off while
detecting or during pinpointing.

Tone ID Profile

Select and adjust detection
audio tones so you can
clearly hear the differences
between valuable accepted
targets before deciding to
dig. Eight Tone ID Profiles are
available. Audio responses
can be matched with FeCo
discrimination patterns for
maximum versatility.

When you are searching, the Detect screen shows you all the target
information you need to find more treasure you wont miss anything!

The color display, Ferrous and Conductivity numbers, numerical depth indicator and sensitivity panel
will give you more confidence to find those elusive good targets in heavily searched and high trash
areas. Quickly select between two discrimination patterns (P1, P2) for each Search Mode. Activate
Target Trace to view real-time visual target information. Use Target Trace Pinpoint for target verification.

Ferrous-Coin Separation

Separates ferrous (iron) targets
from coin-like targets to improve
the identification of coin-like
targets that are in very close
proximity to ferrous targets. Find
the treasure others have missed!

Ground-Coin Separation

Separates ground signals from
coin-like targets to improve the
identification of coin-like targets
that are affected by ground
signals. This greatly improves the
signal stability of good targets in
mineralized ground.

When you want to check treasure locations or ground you have covered,
the Map screen shows you the way no need for a separate GPS!
The GeoTrail displays the path where you have been so you dont waste time detecting the same
ground twice. Use WayPoints and FindPoints to create your own treasure map. Quickly select
between three zoom levels (10 x 10, 20 x 20, 100 x 100) giving close up and wide views. The FeCo
target data can also be displayed so you can navigate and detect at the same time. Map details can
be turned on or off for easy viewing.

For recording find locations and entire treasure hunts, the Store
function does it all!
WayPoints are used as general position markers to easily navigate to your favorite locations.
FindPoints capture location, detector and target data for storing details of your treasure finds.
Record your entire detecting session as a GeoHunt for future reference. All information can be
uploaded to a PC and viewed on Google Maps using the XChange 2 application.

Waypoints

WayPoints are used just like
in other GPS devices. Each
WayPoint comprises of location
and time data. You can use
WayPoints to mark general
locations of interest and for
navigating to detecting areas.
One hundred WayPoints can

Findpoints

FindPoints bring together all
of the important information
you need to know about your
treasure finds. WayPoint data is
combined with target data and
detector settings, at the time of
discovery, to create a FindPoint.
One hundred FindPoints can be
stored in the detector.

Fill in your
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discoveries in
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Navigation Tool

Use the Navigation Tool to guide you to the next detecting
site. No need to use a separate GPS device. Use the direction
and distance indicators to locate where you finished detecting
yesterday/last week/last year. Navigate to WayPoints you have
created on Google Maps and downloaded to your detector. Go
back to a previously marked FindPoint to search for more treasure

GeoTrail

A GeoTrail is a colored trail on the
Map screen which shows where
you have been detecting. You
can be confident that no ground
has been left unsearched. The
GeoTrail changes color when
being recorded as part of a
GeoHunt.

Geohunt

A GeoHunt is made up of your
GeoTrail and any WayPoints and
FindPoints you mark along the
way. A GeoHunt is displayed
on the Map screen and can be
placed onto Google Maps to
record your successes and plan
your next hunt. Ten GeoHunts
can be stored in the detector

Ground Balance
Improved ability to effectively
see through heavily mineralized
ground. This can enable accurate
detection at greater depth in
these conditions.

Audio
Threshold and Volume options
to optimize Audio settings
for your personal hearing and
detecting surroundings.

By connecting the CTX 3030 to XChange 2 you can transfer WayPoints, FindPoints and GeoHunts
to and from your PC (an internet connection is required to view Google Maps). All of your personal
detecting data is stored locally and securely on your PC and is not accessible by others via the internet.
Add text comments and photos to your finds and/or hunts. Important detecting information can
now all be stored in one place with one PC application.
Categorise and color code target types on your maps and arrange in Collection folders. You can
create an unlimited database of your detecting information for future reference.
Create new WayPoints for navigating to detecting locations of interest.
Edit, rename and download finds, detector settings and location data to your CTX 3030 to assist
with your next hunt.
The versatility of XChange 2 is only limited by your imagination. Take your detecting game plan to the
next level by following treasure trends and identifying potential treasure sites. You can even share your
favorite detector settings and exciting discoveries with friends.
XChange 2 will change the way you go detecting forever!
Edit Tone ID Profiles
Edit Discrimination Patterns
Add FindPoint Information
Your Detecting Connection
XChange 2 is supplied free on CD with every
CTX 3030 detector and it is also available as a
free App download from Minelab Metal Detectors for Gold, Treasure and Countermine Applications
apps for everyone to use.

Seem's no one at the other site wants to try and answer this question:

Re: Question on Target Trace Digger
Posted by: TerraDigger [ Send a Message ]
Date: May 11, 2012 11:38PM
Registered: 1 year ago
Posts: 1,654
My question is this.....is the multi-target display a visual redundancy of the audio signal one would get, using the penny-nickel 2" apart example. My machine (non-Minelab) when outfitted with a DD coil will discern each target via audio/VDI, a penny-nickel 2" apart.


This is a copy of my recent post. Anyone care to venture if this is a visual based redundancy of what the audio capabilities already provide on several makes of detectors including the CTX. Also, to what depth does the Target Trace accurately work on coin sized targets? How many targets can be analyzed simultaneously under the coil?

I see a lot of talk about target discrimination .......What I fail to see is any measurement in laymans term as to how close together can said targets be and STILL read a good discrimination ......We all know that masking occurs when targets are one on top of the other , too close together , etc ...... In other words , can it handle MASKING !!...... I can already get plenty of depth with my E Trac ...and it handles masking pretty well , but to handle masking altogether is what I would be interested in seeing .....Put a peice of steel on top of a Barber dime ......Will I see both ? .....or will a typical masking situation rear it's ugly head ? .....Jim

Synthnut - I think most people are happy with the depth of their E-Trac. It is better than any machine in my somewhat to moderately iron mineralized ground that I have tried. The enhanced GB functionality will probably make things better though.
I think, from what I have read so far, that the CTX will be a VERY enhanced E-Trac type of machine - much better unmasking and separation. IF not, then it would just be an expensive and waterproof E-Trac - which I doubt.

Terra - I saw your post yesterday and I think first, no one really knows except for the testers and 2nd - Will the testers share that at this time? I don't know.

What I can gather so far is that the chip in the coil seems to be assisting with what you are talking about. The E-Trac and other FBS machines are very Unique in that they display a 2D screen, so theoretically they are creating the possibility to show you multiple targets quite easily in the order that they hit. So, to postulate on your question, I do think it is somewhat like the audio, but the chip is further breaking things down and displaying them in the correct places on the screen. Much less fatique than what one would hear with audio, but for good ears it probably doesn't matter. This is actually very nice and almost a natural progression in my mind.

" Enhanced E Trac " has a nice ring to it .......I would like to see some boosted power to be able to speed up whatever enhancements are going to be offered ..... The E Trac was a step in the right direction .....Being able to visualize both Ferrous and Conductive at the same time was great , as were a lot of the other E trac features ......What was missing was the power to run everything together without bogging the machine down ....... POWER BABY !!.....Supercharge this bad mama jama !!......Hopefully that is what the BIG battery is all about ..... BIG battery , BIG power !!.....One can only hope !!..... Jim

I see the alkaline pack still uses 8 AA's Synthnut...So the battery pack is squared up now instead of long thats why it's is boxy looking.. ...Maybe they are using lower power circuit's than before so juice can be saved to send more power to the coil?



Keith

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see the alkaline pack still uses 8 AA's
> Synthnut...So the battery pack is squared up now
> instead of long thats why it's is boxy looking..
> ...Maybe they are using lower power circuit's than
> before so juice can be saved to send more power to
> the coil?
>
>
>
> Keith


Keith - You will be hard pressed to find a chip built now that is not a HUGE upgrade power consumption wise. The cell phones, PDA's, Tablets and Netbooks have demanded power and lower energy consumption. I am curious what the processor(s) is in the CTX3030. And that name gets me. I almost expect a CTX3010 to come out later, especially if sales lag.

Good pt btw with the batteries - the boxy nature tricked us all before the specs were released.

Corret me if I am wrong but has not the FBS mchien s always operated with a square wave pulse type transmission?

I have read the 3030 has a pulse type transmission for better I.D. accuracy...but I thought the FBS always did this...this is all form memory so I may need to go look up the explorer transmission process..

Keith

Keith Southern Wrote:
I think so.

But it can be improved and it can have some added tech to it.

Much faster processors, better communication with the coil, faster display...so that ID points can be taken continuously at a set rate.





-------------------------------------------------------
> Corret me if I am wrong but has not the FBS mchien
> s always operated with a square wave pulse type
> transmission?
>
> I have read the 3030 has a pulse type transmission
> for better I.D. accuracy...but I thought the FBS
> always did this...this is all form memory so I may
> need to go look up the explorer transmission
> process..
>
> Keith

tmanly , I am glad you took the time to download the brochure.........lots of questions answered just by looking at the PDF brochure.

To me.......this appears to be a multi frequency IB machine, a vectored take on the DEUS.....with some type of pre-amp/amp built into the coil...

At 5.2 lbs........vs. the E-Trac at 4.8 lbs.....(with Li-Ion) pack....not much diff........however.....I see NO mention of what consists of a "smart coil"...and/or

the electronics within.......so makes me wonder if there is a little battery in the coil...or have they possibly figured out to "power" it via existing batteries, thereby not having to open the coil......or better yet passively......

There is mention of "Ultra-fast microcontrollers".....but no actual mention of the clock speed......such as the 32 bit/ 48 Mhz processor on the E-Trac.

The others features are cool bells and whitles.....but I surmise the amplified coil and faster processor.....are most likely the core improvements.

Kudos to Digger for running some tests for Minelab's potential customers but the spoon feeding of technical information is very irritating. In addition, he seems to be the only guy swinging the CTX providing such feedback. But maybe I just haven't found the other fellas?

Quote
Digger (@Findmall)
In the days and weeks ahead, you will be able to learn more about specific functionality of the CTX 3030 on the Minelabs Treasure Talk blog.

... in the ... weeks ahead,...

WTF???

Maybe Fisher will provide a manual, pricing, technical feedback (from Tom) and a few prepared YouTube videos on day 1 should they launch a new machine. Wouldn't that be something!

--------

Oh, one edit, Minelab's Treasure Talk Blog: [www.minelab.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2012 01:07PM by go-rebels.

My open (excessively honest) "in the public's eye" approach for field-testing a new prototype/new-model ....... is usually not what a Mfr wants. I doubt I will receive a proto from Fisher for field-testing purposes....... and public discussion/sharing.

I already am creating a list of things to test for when I get the CTX (and Rutus Jupiters as well). Amongst other things I will try, as Tom suggested and was posted above, some more 3D tests, instead of just on a 2D plane. Please let me (and others) know what kinds of tests you would like to see. I'll do what I can and video it. I don't have acess to a good hunting location nearby, so can't test on actual coins found in the field - quickly (but I am searching). What I can do is ride down to a nice meadow with next to no EMI and run some tests. I don't have much of a coin garden, so I will be burying fresh targets or the like.

Outside of Monty's published nail test, is there a test (and link please) that is semi standardized?

Albert

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My open (excessively honest) "in the public's eye"
> approach for field-testing a new
> prototype/new-model ....... is usually not what a
> Mfr wants. I doubt I will receive a proto from
> Fisher for field-testing purposes....... and
> public discussion/sharing.


yes! unfortunately i am in agreement with this!
fear of the "absolute" truth in field testing can be a disaster from a marketing
perspective! i wish (f.t.) would grow a pair,and let tom properly evaluate
the unit.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I'd like to see this:
Take a dime size coin and bury flat at 6" deep.
Before covering up coin pour one cup very salty water on the dime, then add 3" of fresh dirt.
Next bury a 2" rusty nail flat directly above the coin, pour one cup very salty water over the dime and finish filling in the hole.
Let it set until you get your CTX.
Let me know what you find. Oh, by the way try the Etrac on this setup too. You can actually do the Etrac now.


Thanks in advance.
Mark.


earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already am creating a list of things to test for
> when I get the CTX (and Rutus Jupiters as well).
> Amongst other things I will try, as Tom suggested
> and was posted above, some more 3D tests, instead
> of just on a 2D plane. Please let me (and others)
> know what kinds of tests you would like to see.
> I'll do what I can and video it. I don't have
> acess to a good hunting location nearby, so can't
> test on actual coins found in the field - quickly
> (but I am searching). What I can do is ride down
> to a nice meadow with next to no EMI and run some
> tests. I don't have much of a coin garden, so I
> will be burying fresh targets or the like.
>
> Outside of Monty's published nail test, is there a
> test (and link please) that is semi standardized?
>
>
> Albert

Since this forum/web-site is becoming more international............ I am trying to devise a 'standardized' method for 3-Dimentional testing.

Nail on top is obvious. What TYPE of nail. What SIZE of nail.
Depth/distance should be a standardized distance. Probably 1-inch........... or maybe 25mm.
The coin needs to be fairly small........ dime-sized. A quarter is 2-1/2 times the mass/size of a dime..... and is too big. We hardly find quarters. We find more dimes and small coins the most. Keep it realistic.

I have a 'standardized' 90-Deg bent rusty square-nail glued to a 1" thick piece of 4 x 4. I have a clad dime glued on the other side of the wood. As of yet............. no detector in the world has passed this test..... failing to detect the dime.

If separation is increased from 1" (between the nail and the dime)........ the test becomes excessive absolute.
If the size of the nail (that I have choosen)..... is increased.................. the test becomes excessive absolute.

With this wooden block placed on (sanitized) dirt .... with the nail on top............ another large 'variable' is......... sweeping this complex target scenario at different coil heights........ ultimately altering resultant.

My thoughts are............................. If a metal detector Mfr can ID a dime (not correctly..... but as a non-ferrous target)............ that is 1" below a nail............ this would be a superior starting-point. To find a dime several inches below a nail .................. is asking too much (right now). ((( Unless a paradigm shift is employed ))). "Front" coupled with angular or "side" scan can perform such............. as seen/witnessed in airports. But a inductive loop (coil) on our metal detectors is "Front" 1-Dimentional ONLY.......... technology.