Anybody here ever try dowsing?

I firmly believe that it depends upon what state you are in. Here in South Carolina I've not found much success, but when I'm in North Intoxiville, my senses are sharpened and I can do just about anything.

your creative thats for sure LOL! and thats what i'm watching too, america unearthed

You can read about dowsing in Carl Moreland's new book "Inside the Metal Detector", he goes into great detail.

There is no scientific principle at work with dowsing. The LRLs are just electronic junk designed to scam the buyer. Dowsing has been shown to begin or originate with the dowser, subconsciously moving slightly the dowsing instrument through involuntary muscle movements. There is plenty of fraud in the dowsing community. You are far more likely to find subterranean water sources by dousing than find a gold nugget. Water is located underground in many locations and if you dig you are likely to find it - especially if you have acquired some knowledge of its whereabouts ahead of time. A gold nugget not so much. This is why dowsers don't have piles of gold and silver and when tested can't make it work (it's because negative energy is inhibiting the sympathetic vapors from the target or some such excuse). Dowsers can bury a target and then later 'pretend' to find it - which convinces some. But there is no successful scientific test of a dowser. When tested they fail.

What may appear to be a successful discovery of a buried target may in fact be luck, or prior knowledge, or an educated guess. There is a scam used by evangelists of a certain persuasion, where they place older people walking into their revival meetings in a wheelchair as a 'courtesy'. Later during the 'show' they wheel the person on stage and have the evangelist 'heal' the supposedly paralyzed person - who never was - and when they stand the crowd cheers. But they've all been fooled. Likewise, with supposed special divine info the evangelist announces about someone in the audience (with pancreatic cancer, or some such thing). But beforehand, their assistants gathered secretly much info by chatting with people or off invitation cards. The info is fed to the evangelist via a hidden earpiece or told ahead of time. Dowsing in my estimation is in the same league with the other frauds and charlatans that prey on people who want to believe.

And yes, the origin of dowsing in divination - the original 'mover' was spirits - today it's some pseudoscience babble meant to convince that there is some real affect at work. The dowsing rod has as much connection to the target as the stars and planets have connection to your horoscope. But, you can always buy that $5,000 LRL with all the rods sticking out in front and flashing lights that claims to find gold up to 3 miles away. Then take it apart after it arrives, and find the circuit card from a toaster oven glued on the inside with wires going no where. Buyer beware.

Guys, here in the Willamette Valley I can take a dowsing rod and dowse water wells with 100% success, I guarantee it. At most houses I can dowse the water main and buried power line with good success. I could hit the Quartzville Creek with a dowsing rod and walk away with gold, no sweat. I can demonstrate to a group of people how to dowse for a hidden gold coin, and they'll beg me to teach them. And if I set my standards low enough, I could make a fortune selling Electroscopes.

But it's all a mind trick.

Dowsing don't work.

At all.

Yep, you once saw a utility worker dowse a water line. Your great grandpa was a world-class well dowser. Somewhere, a couple of states over, there's a story about a fellow who knew someone who might have found a KGC hoard by dowsing. These stories are a dime-a-dozen, and worth even less.

Oh sure, you get this weird tugging feeling when you dowse. And it sure seems to work, when it works. But when any level of rigor is applied to testing dowsing, all success vanishes, completely. It has the same credibility as a good hallucination.

Dowsing has several explanations. It's statistical luck. Or knowing what the heck you were doing even if you had left the dowsing rods in the truck. Or (when demonstrating the wonders of Electroscope) deception. Or blaming the wrong locator. But what it isn't is a real phenomenon.

This forum usually attracts a slightly more tech-savvy group than most detector forums. But mention dowsing, and a lot of folks shut down the critical thinking process, and go with superstition. I've done a lot of research in dowsing and LRLs over the past 15 years, and I've learned one important fact: once someone believes that dowsing works, absolutely nothing can change their mind. It's best to move on.

- Carl

Dowsing/LRL Q&A: [www.geotech1.com]

Some folks are more open mined than others . Religion has no scientific basis either , but a lots of folks believe in it.

Religion can't be scientifically tested. Dowsing can.

Hobo -- I agree with you that there are some things that cannot adequately measured or explained through scientific means. The existence of God, or life after death, are examples of such things; if these things exist, I think we would agree that their existence resides in a "dimension" outside of ours -- one that may or may not conform to the physical laws that govern things here in our universe, on our planet. In that case, trying to "scientifically prove" such things based on the empirical principles that apply in THIS dimension, would be difficult, at best.

DOWSING, however, is not one of those things. To claim that dowsing "works" is saying that doing "x" (using dowsing rods to search for a physical substance) will result in a certain outcome (the substance will be detected by the rods). That claim is FULLY empirical, and fully lends itself to scientific testing. If carefully constructed scientific testing demonstrates that the cause (applying dowsing rods to a buried substance) does NOT result in the claimed effect (that the substance will be detected), then that should be "end of discussion."

If this is NOT the "end of the discussion," then the only other option in my mind, is to say that it "can" work, but does not lend itself to being measured by scientific means -- that the nature of the dowsing process is not to be understood through currently understood science. And all I would say about that is -- if THAT is true, then the concerns of Aaron, ozzie, and myself would enter into the picture...

Steve

It's ok to believe in something but when it comes to material devices that are supposed to find something..irt metal
then we step out of the meta-physical and can step into "scientific" evidence arena.
Empirical science requires a theory or method to be able to be repeated and measured.

So the bottom line is dowsing/LRL lacks any repeatability and the proponents aren't willing to be subject
to any kind of meaningful study....not even a blind test that would prove once and for all whether
or not said device does indeed find....whatever...gold locators are what sell...so we can say find gold.

LRLs or dowsing at best are highly subjective....

Here are the facts: We all know for a fact that standard VLF/pulse and all its sub-categories work, it can be readily
proven by someone waving the coil over metal....

But LRL/ dowsing....we don't have any meaningful way to measure whether they really work or not....That is a fact.

Geotech is correct, once someone believes in dowsing/ LRL, there is nothing that can be said that will change their mind.

And whoever believes in dowsing/LRL...be prepared for the rest of us not to accept or buy into that these devices work.
We can respect each other regardless of this subject...hopefully.

The forum geotech I suppose still has its LRL forums, likely a better choice to post on this subject if one
is interested in them.

Interesting to see how this thread "resolved".
Well done!

Hi - no endorsement or opinion. Here is a 9 minute video from a detectorist in UK:

[www.youtube.com]

Thanks Barryny that was entertaining I loved it when he ground balanced them wish he would of bent in the knee's a little more?I'm still on the fence their's some good salesman here though on both sides!Maybee its a perversion of science(genesis 6)?

Sometime it seem the more formal education a person has the more closed minded the are to things they can't prove or disprove. In my 77 years on this planet I have witnessed many things that I couldnt understand or explain, but that dose'nt mean they did not occur. Some folks believe prayer works, others say its superstiton. I don't know, but maybe it works for some and not for others. I think thers a lot more that we don't know than what we do know. Like Tom says " how do you know what you don't know?"

High school education here hobo...and like Ive said before, prove it. I live in the Motherload, theres plenty of gold to be dowsed.

deathray Wrote:
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> ...and like Ive said before, prove it.

And that is the real problem with dowsing/ LRLs, NO FREAKING PROOF.

And till there is PROOF, we will always have the moaners claim it is something out of bounds of science.
I'd hate to recommend a product to anyone where I didn't have some kind of guarantee that it works.
Yet that is what those who claim they work are doing.

Think about it, if you buy any electronic goods or electrical goods, these items have a track record that they work....at least under average conditions.
Like cellphone, tv, computer, stove, refrig, etc, you get the idea.

Yet if one buys a LRL, there is no way to prove it works....

I hope wiser minds prevail and no one would get SUCKERED into buying one of these devices because they read something about them on this forum.

LRL/ Dowsing =HOAX.

The burden of proof belongs to anyone who claims they work, in other words, if you say they work, it is YOUR BURDEN to PROVE IT WORKS.
DON'T POST SAYING THEY WORK UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO PROVE IT WORKS.
Then we can assemble witnesses and setup blind tests...just remember, any costs incurred, you pay your own way.

As far as LRLs are concerned I doubt if they work any better than a forked willow stick. As to proving that dowsing works, that probably can't be proven. Can it be proven that it never works? Does dowsing ever work? I have seen producing water wells dowsed and dug within 100 feet of dry wells and at less depth. All I am saying is keep an open mind. Thers much more that we don't know than what we do..

Dowsing works when it works, and fails in every other instance. Interestingly, the forked willow stick works no better than the index finger; both are cheaper than LRLs, but with the index finger you don't need a nearby willow tree.

It's a long stretch going from a finding a water hole.....to anyone making a device specifically to find gold objects.
Think about that....how could it ever distinguish from all the other metals? Iron, brass, copper, aluminum, etc.
BTW, that's what this thread is about...finding gold with dowsing/LRLs.

As far as proving a universal negative...yes that is very hard to do.
There is also a probability of ....for a lack of a better term...luck.
Someone gets one of these devices and happens to be over gold...and believes that the device led him to it.
Yet perhaps he did research and followed leads...from what little I know about these devices....they don't pinpoint.
So they take a vlf or pulse with them to "pinpoint" and with luck they dig up something.
The procedure for using these devices don't even make good sense...read up, then see what your conclusion is.

Let me put it another way, most folk that use vlf/pulse reject the idea that LRLs/dowsing works.
One will find stiff resistance on any of the forums if they try to put forth this idea.
The reason is simple, there isn't any known logic that would indicate they could work...or that the results could be duplicated.

Yeah, they have their own terminology to explain what is happening and how these devices work.
And I don't doubt that people believe they work, in fact, the makers/sellers believe they work too.
I bet it is more profitable to sell LRLs than to use them, don't you think?

Or better yet, go to the beach...I never got an answer on this one.
There are gold rings out there among all those pulltabs.
A device that could indicate the presence of a gold ring but at the same time not indicate pulltabs....would sell like hotcakes...don't you think?
I ask one of these makers as well as the "believers" about this, never got an answer.
Perhaps it needs to be a much bigger chunk of gold? How big does the gold piece have to be before it works?
What about false positives? How deep is one willing to dig before he doesn't have faith in it anymore?
There are all kinds of problems with any kind of question about these LRLs.
The makers don't know the answers and they generally have a disclaimer when they sell them...they really need that.

There are a lot of things one can believe in without seeing it or understanding but dowsing/ LRLs should rightly be at the bottom of that list.
And many of them will tell you that you have to believe in them, have positive thoughts and the like....yeah..right...
In other words, there needs to be the meta-physical part to the equation also to use the devices.

(You know, I can think very negative thoughts and my detector will still respond to metal.)

And you have to hold them a certain way and if you don't hold them a certain way, they don't work.
Then what about the wind blowing while using them?
You have to hold the LRL/dowser perfectly straight up and down...try that and see what you think.
There is no way to keep it straight up and down or to involuntary make a small sudden movement occasionally that would cause them to react falsely.
Think about falses we have to contend with using vlf....how would one know when he's getting a false signal from a dowser/LRL?

No, we don't know everything but we do know for sure no-one has ever proved that LRL/dowsing works above the level of pure random chance(for finding precious metals).

I've got a good friend who was medic in the Vietnam war and he talks about seeing Marines dowse for tunnels while on his tour. Now I can't say it is a fact but I did find an interesting article posted below.


"United States Military Dowsers in Vietnam

A member of the American Society of Dowsers, ASD, proved the efficacy of dowsing to Marines at a USMC training center in Virginia by successfully finding all of the concealed underground installations, amazing camp officials. He dowsed a map of the training center the night before the actual demonstration. At USMC Camp Pendleton in Southern California, enlistees were screened for their dowsing ability. One out of five was found to have the ability.

Louis Matacia, an operations analyst at the Marine Corps Schools at Quantico, Virginia, is given credit for instituting and teaching the use of dowsing. He taught one hundred and eight Marines, en route to Vietnam, military dowsing basics. They used it successfully during the Vietnamese war. Its efficacy was proven beyond any doubt to the Marine Command, but it wasn’t sanctioned for use. Despite this, the Corps used it.

Dowsers were used to locate booby traps, message drops, buried telephone lines and supplies, mines, enemy tunnel systems, Viet Cong underground emplacements and weapons caches. They were able to locate subterranean tunnels at Khesan when electronic detectors were useless. A professional military dowser can locate the enemy, day or night, under and above ground, underwater and the precise location, despite the distance between the dowser and the target. Dowsing was said to have saved many lives.

Very little publicity was released about the success of dowsing at the time. It was classified until recently. Paul Smith, retired Intelligence officer, led the department of military dowsing and teaches civilian dowsers methods and techniques used in military dowsing."



Read more at Suite101: Dowsing Used by the Military | Suite101 [suite101.com]
Follow us: @suite101 on Twitter | Suite101 on Facebook

I remember when I believed in Santa Claus. That was very cool. It's comforting to have belief in the extraordinary, because it gives order to the chaos of the universe. I'm impressed that any adult could still have that level of faith. I wish I had it. As for me, I have no choice but to call you crazy until someone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that dowsing or LRLs or ESP will find Gold. If it did, it would simply ALL be dug up. It's just too lucrative to leave it in the ground if you KNOW where it is.

This is an interesting topic and I find the responses very interesting too.

It seems there are 2 camps of opinion ... "prove it to me" and "I think it works (I hope it works, I wish it would work}"

As a retired mechanical engineer I fall in the first camp BUT..

As a youngster living in Canada I saw a well dowser "apparently" successfully discover where to drill a well. Also, a renowned engineer at my work was a firm believer and "supposedly" a successful dowser. Unfortunately I personally never saw his successes. He was also a very interesing character who spoke intimately with a number of the astronauts regarding their experiences with UFOs.

From my quick research into dowsing (via Google) It appears that equipment is not as important as the person using them....AND..."motive" is also a factor. This means that greedy motives may not work....Hmmm.

So...it's simple enough to try and it's fascinating enough to try out and I will. I will report my results on here.

Regards, Joe

Shambler Wrote:
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> It's comforting to have belief in the extraordinary, because it gives order to the
> chaos of the universe.

I would say just the opposite -- it injects chaos into an otherwise very orderly universe. While the universe is incredibly orderly, it is also incredibly complex, and science has proven to be the overwhelming best bet to understanding its complexities. Science has not been kind to dowsing, ESP, homeopathy, alien abductions, and a host of other hoaxes, frauds, and delusions.

The next-to-the-bottom line is... dowsing is a highly testable claim, and consistently fails. I have personally tested people who claim to be successful dowsers, and not a single one of them could demonstrate even a modicum of ability to me. Not even close.

And the bottom line is... people who believe in dowsing want to believe in dowsing, and they will not be swayed. Every single person I've ever tested was a spectacular failure, and every single one of them walked away still insisting they could dowse.

Hi Carl,

Well, how many of us as kids dreamed about having super powers? I know I sure wished I could do anything that those superheroes in my comic books could do. As I got older I settled for just hoping for ESP or something. Not to be, though. Eventually I grew up and put those fantasies away. But I can understand how some people want to cling to the idea that they have special powers the rest of us lack.

I see your book came out. How do I get a copy?

Steve Herschbach
Find me on Facebook



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 08:53PM by Steve Herschbach.

It be nice 2 have Walter Russell here to set us all at ease with his captivating illustrations, intense colors, amazing graphs!@ skeptic not skepdic?

Yeah, markg, that type of "dowsing" later developed into "remote viewing".
That is in the realm of mind over matter stuff.
ESP and such.

Say.... forget the dowser and stay home...hold your finger over a map to find the treasure.....
Reading tea leaves all of sudden doesn't sound so bad.....

Quote

I would say just the opposite -- it injects chaos into an otherwise very orderly universe. While the universe is incredibly orderly, it is also incredibly complex, and science has proven to be the overwhelming best bet to understanding its complexities. Science has not been kind to dowsing, ESP, homeopathy, alien abductions, and a host of other hoaxes, frauds, and delusions.

Yeah, you're right. I was inadvertently lumping this nonsense in with conspiracy theorists et al. Folks seem to get great comfort from some things even if they intuitively know it just can't be true. For some reason there's almost a need to believe in dowsing and ESP and conspiracies etc.

We do the same thing's with metal detector's Shambler till we learn want we want for the job to get accomplished

We see the guy with brand X find a $20.00 gold piece or a great Confederate buckle and rush out and buy them because that guy found that item in some spot in his State...WHY?

But as we move on we finally figure out it's not the jaw dropping singular item the detector retrieves...it's the culmination of find's ...type's of finds found regular..the environment the finds come from etc..

We figure out what works for what we want to do. not what a picture on the net or in a magazine get's us excited about...

It's a FACT great finds sell detector's...More than run of the mill find's coming from very hard hunted site's...

I would rather see a eagle button come out of a pile of iron than a 5 dollar gold piece come out of a plowed field isolated on top of the ground...If I am studying a potential detector for purchase I have to weigh option's...

Not that I dont like the Gold coin but I like to know that the button was way harder to get than the gold coin....So that machine grabs my attnetion becasue thats my environ i like to hunt....

But the excitement of the GREAT find lurking just under the dirt send's the imagination running away and the thought of simply finding what you are looking with out a lot of effort by using alternative method's sure does sound exciting and way easier to get to the Goodies...And in a way adds to the unkown aspect of the next target we unearth...Sort of ties thing's all together into the ultimate otherworldy Conquest for adventure straight out of a hollywood Movie.

Treasure hunting appeals to the adventurer in us and the finds just make us that more anxious to get the Treasure...Any means necessary...

I see nothing wrong with people exploring with AlTERNATIVE method's....If you have the time and enjoy it,,What's it hurt?..Alot of people are into detecting for enjoyment, relaxation, and geting out and exercising...

But as with the detector find's in magazine brouchures eventually one way or another you will have to come to grips with what REALLY works for you ...

One last thing....

If I was on a planted hunt and there was gold coin hid in a field I would want my detector Vs anything else....Even if it was a dog that can smell the gold I would still want a detector if I had the option..LOL!

Keith

A dog that can smell gold....Hmmmmmm

Gentlemen i never thought this would become a long thread as it has, i was just asking if anybody or tried it and so on i can't say what Lrods will work but i'm one in this hobby to like to try different things, probably the naysayers are right? but until i try it for myself on a actual hunt then we'll go from there, thats all i meant by this hopefully there will be no full blown arguments over this and just want everyone to respect each others beliefs reguardless of what we really think and thank you.

Seems like everyone is ok, AMC. It's a good discussion. Looking forward to your discoveries.

me too Ozzie spring can't come fast enough thats for sure! still waiting for my vista smart still showing its in customs, there a pain.