New Garrett ATX Waterproof Ground Balancing PI

I have a particular interest in ground balancing pulse induction (GBPI) detectors. VLF has been kind of boring, for me anyway, so the more interesting stuff has been going on in PI. I have used most of the Minelab models plus Garrett Infinium and White's TDI. I currently have a Minelab GPX 5000 and White's TDI.

I have been hoping for a waterproof TDI since nearly the day they came out but it has never come to pass. I was surprised when Garrett managed to come to market with a second generation waterproof GBPI before the other major manufacturers even made it to first base. So I got one of the first available Garrett ATX detectors.

This forum seems to be more into hunting stuff in thick iron and that is not where you want to go with a PI. Still, I put a lot of information together on using the ATX for coin detecting in sparse iron, water detecting, and nugget detecting. For those interested here are the links:

Coin & Jewelry Detecting with the Garrett ATX

Gold Nugget Detecting with the Garrett ATX

I am very happy overall with the ATX, my only caveat being the weight. I forgive it somewhat for that since it is waterproof but it is heavy even for a waterproof detector. Still, I buy and try a lot of detectors and only a chosen few stay in my collection. The ATX will stay as it fills an important gap in my capability and that is being able to hunt around and underwater in highly mineralized areas. Not a detector for everyone by a long shot but pretty unique in many ways and so I think interesting just because of some of the ideas employed in the design.

Steve Herschbach

Informative write up and cool ring there Steve

thanks for sharing :-)

HH

Thanks for the great write up Steve! There are a few of us that prospect here, and I am very interested and do value your oponion. The weight is a little heavy, but the way it compacts, is waterproof and is rugged are definite plusses. I don't know if you've had the oppurtunity to hike the canyons like the North Fork American yet, but that is the type of area that those attributes are needed. Ray

So Ray, what are you, a mind reader?

Good write-up Steve. I too....feel that the 3rd, 4th, 5th generation "discriminating" PI...... has exceptionally good potential for our advancing future.

Yes, "hunting stuff in thick iron" does seem to be a bias-leaned direction of this forum....... as of the past few years........ due to recent technological advancements with metal detection equipment. Plus........... (ratio-wise) , , , there are significantly larger volumes of good finds in thick iron.
And since 'depth' and 'unmasking' are the primary concerns in regards to success (and further advancement) of this hobby................................ there have been no significant 'depth' technological breakthroughs (on coin-sized/coin-conductive targets) in about 1/4-Century. If there is a technological 'depth plateau' breakthrough......... you will see yet another monumental 'discovery' attributed to this hobby.

This is where things get fun for me. For guys in most parts of the country, there ARE a multitude of finds in the heavy iron. But what I found out was...there is a multitude of finds in the open areas that have been hammered for years....but are in places notorious for having highly mineralized soil. This was an eye opener to me...I kept thinking that everything was SUPER DEEP in the ground, and out of reach of our detectors. That's why I ventured into the pulse machines to be honest. I got a TDI, took it to a site I had hunted pretty good and wasn't really worried about missing something that great in...and then I started finding bullet after bullet...button after button. And hardly any of it was deep. I couldn't figure it out, and it left me puzzled for a little bit. The next time there, I started signal checking with a machine I knew well....and I began to interpret it was the ground itself...acting like it was a carpet of nails, and masking the targets to anything BUT a pulse machine. This happened to me in most all my places locally, and up in Virginia too. It amazes me at the good finds that are less than 6 inches deep, that the ground masks the target completely to a VLF machine. Couple that with the pulse machines going deep in the ground too...and you are basically unlocking two different layers that have been hidden from previous detectorists. Exciting times.

Steve,
Thank you for all your effort in testing and writing up the new Atx. I had been waiting to see what your final verdict would be. As I feel your a straight shooter and hardened prospector.
Do you feel it does better on small gold or EMI than the TDI ?.
Small world!!
Funny I recently was given permisssion to hunt a claim in a great area of the North Fork lots of bedrock. And its also a relic location. Old Cabin foundations from a early camp set up for I cant say it will give it away.( Ray is too close LOL) But it was the first one built in CA.

You will want to protect yourself for ticks in that area they can be pretty thick in spots.
Good luck!

You know Alaska was easy. All you have is bears. Down here not only are there bears but snakes and poisonous spiders and scorpions and poison oak..... And ticks! The list just keeps getting longer.

The ATX and standard TDI are close enough if I am asked I would advise making the choice mostly one of waterproof versus not waterproof. I have decided to hang on to my TDI but if I had to sell one right now it would be the TDI. Both good detectors though. I want to play more with the ATX non-motion mode versus TDI ground balance off mode.

Poison oak and ticks suck, but the worst danger in my oponion is walking up on a grow. Me and my son had an experience this summer.

Quote

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
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You know Alaska was easy. All you have is bears. Down here not only are there bears but snakes and poisonous spiders and scorpions and poison oak..... And ticks! The list just keeps getting longer.

Man - and I thought battling mosquitoes, horse & deer flies, poison ivy, ticks, Black Widows, Michigan rattlesnakes, and the occasional pack of coyotes at night was bad! lol

You have to be careful night hunting around here - the coyotes will circle you and attack as a pack if you're not careful/unaware ---- it pays to hunt with a partner and at least one of you to carry while night hunting in rural areas here in Michigan and if you're in the woods and/or fields that adjoin woods - you have to watch for the rattlesnakes in/around and under wood/stumps, etc. (especially) in/around low lying swampy type areas.

I watched a guy get bit on his hand from a michigan rattler and it wasn't a pretty sight - he was transported to the hospital via ambulance but not before his hand swelled to 3xs normal size, turned green/purple, and he went into near convulsive type reaction to the bite. The culprit that bit him was only a baby too - like 10" long :-/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2013 10:32AM by MichiganRelicHunter.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is where things get fun for me. For guys in
> most parts of the country, there ARE a multitude
> of finds in the heavy iron. But what I found out
> was...there is a multitude of finds in the open
> areas that have been hammered for years....but are
> in places notorious for having highly mineralized
> soil. This was an eye opener to me...I kept
> thinking that everything was SUPER DEEP in the
> ground, and out of reach of our detectors. That's
> why I ventured into the pulse machines to be
> honest. I got a TDI, took it to a site I had
> hunted pretty good and wasn't really worried about
> missing something that great in...and then I
> started finding bullet after bullet...button after
> button. And hardly any of it was deep. I
> couldn't figure it out, and it left me puzzled for
> a little bit. The next time there, I started
> signal checking with a machine I knew well....and
> I began to interpret it was the ground
> itself...acting like it was a carpet of nails, and
> masking the targets to anything BUT a pulse
> machine. This happened to me in most all my
> places locally, and up in Virginia too. It amazes
> me at the good finds that are less than 6 inches
> deep, that the ground masks the target completely
> to a VLF machine. Couple that with the pulse
> machines going deep in the ground too...and you
> are basically unlocking two different layers that
> have been hidden from previous detectorists.
> Exciting times.

I read so much about people digging coins at depths beyond 6" that I really thought they were exaggerating or that my locations only held shallow coins. Then I discovered I hunt mineralized ground where VLF only gets about 60-70% of optimal depths. Firing up a PI instantly produced coin finds missed by decades of the best VLF detectors going over the ground. As far as I am concerned the depth breakthrough Tom referred to has already occurred. Ground balancing PI reminds me of when the first ground balancing VLF detectors came out. All raw power and no discrimination. The new PI generation allows for at least some degree of selectivity and it is getting better. I enjoy it just because it is off the wall and I like using methods that differ from what others are employing.

I do think the next couple years are going to be very interesting in metal detector land.

Thanks Steve,

Every bit of information helps us in deciding if the ATX will fill out detecting needs, Appreciate you taking the time to share.

Thanks again,
Paul (Ca)

Hi Paul,

I know you have the Recon. I am curious if the non-motion mode on the ATX and the normal Recon mode are one and the same. I get the impression that is the case. Anyway, nice detector, I just wish it was not so heavy. I would love to see an ATX in a lightweight housing. When the inevitable used ones start popping up I may get a second one to strip down and stick in a White's Classic housing.

Sneaky internet tip - if a person can get a Recon for under $500 it would cost less than buying the 8" mono coil for the ATX all by itself. Plus you would have all kinds of spare parts/goodies.

Hi Steve,

I was under the impression Recon coils will not work with the ATX? Could be wrong and sure hope I am that would be great and like you say all one needs to do is pickup a used Recon for under $500 bucks then use the 8" coil and connected shaft, Chances are will pick up an ATX in the future and what's stopping me at the moment is not enough time to get out due to work and such.

I'm thinking of gutting out my Recon and insert the guts from an all-metal audio ID processing detector than can handle black sand to some degree, Maybe a Whites GMT or that new Jimmy Sierra GMT version without target ID but has the same GMT audio not sure yet can always use this for fresh water what I need is a waterproof detector that can get the tiniest of finds. Due to masking from Black sand all-metal is the only feature I use in these type of conditions, Forget disc mode even the best of the best will not see the target in disc mode due to masking.

On another note, Down the road 2-3 years or so we may be able to pickup the military ATX version on the internet for a great deal and I'm thinking the military version will be single tone. The Recon single tone spoiled me, But it lacks the much needed new features the ATX has.

Steve, If you like PM me your mailing address and I'll forward you my 8" Recon coil with shaft if you'd like to experiment the Recon 8" with the ATX if you haven't already picked up an 8". You can send it back later. However, Let's make sure it will work wouldn't want to damage your ATX.

Thanks again,
Paul (Ca)

The part number for the AML-1000 and ATX large mono coil are the same

[www.dyakogroup.com]

[www.garrett.com]

I suspect the mono 8" is the same. The new DD coil takes advantage of options on the ATX like iron check so may not work well on AML but not an issue for me. I do have the 8" mono for ATX already so thanks anyway Paul. I will be trying Infinium coils on the ATX next week, which you indicate work on the AML. If they work on the ATX we can probably consider it case closed.

The ATX in non-motion mode is single tone, either low or high. In motion mode it reverts to Infinium dual tone scheme.

Hi Steve,

A follow-up on the Infinium coils working with the Recon, Yes they will work with the Recon but one needs to build a rod that will both slide into the Garrett housing and connect the Infinium coil. My first shaft was a pain to construct now if I was to do it again would use a solid shaft with a different approach connecting to the Garrett military housing.

I'm to hoping the 8" mono coil will detect smaller targets with the ATX, I would prefer using this coil for both land and water for my type of hunting unless Garrett makes smaller DD coil that will get the tiniest of finds same as the stock one. An elliptical coil same size as the Infinium elliptical boy that would be a great especially if the elliptical can detect same size nuggets as the stock one.

And thanks for sharing the ATX has single tone when using non-motion mode was not aware it had single tone thought it was the same as the Ininium 2-tone.

My problem is enjoy experimenting with detectors and chances are will get the ATX and like you try different Infinium coils, But like I mentioned above you need a well built sturdy shaft to both hold the Infinium coil and mount into the military housing. Can't be sloppy has to be tough so your swings are straight and true.

Thanks Steve,
Paul (Ca)

I am going opposite direction. Hip mount the control box and rod mount the coil. Hope to have all four Infinium coils tomorrow. The 5 x 10 DD would be a great nugget hunting coil.

Cool Steve!

Let us know how the Infinium coils work with the ATX, And great idea hip mounting never thought about that with my Recon swell idea for sure.

Paul (Ca)

OK Paul, got the coils. DD coils work for sure, monos jury is out. Interesting to speculate why on that subject. Check it out at [www.detectorprospector.com]

Great write ups on the ATX Steve. Good information. Congratulations on the gold and diamond ring as well...Stuart

Correct me if im wrong.... but size wise targets, unlike a VLF, there wont be a detection difference since they arent affected like VLF machines. Coil size is more separation and coverage thing. Interesting machine..... what kind of specs. does it have Steve... like uS. I know ML is coming out with theirs.... which seems to have a 6" coil. Tested any salt water?

Dew

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correct me if im wrong.... but size wise targets,
> unlike a VLF, there wont be a detection difference
> since they arent affected like VLF machines.
> Coil size is more separation and coverage thing.
> Interesting machine..... what kind of specs. does
> it have Steve... like uS. I know ML is coming
> out with theirs.... which seems to have a 6" coil.
> Tested any salt water?
>
> Dew


Coil size on a PI makes less difference than the pulse delay in the ability to find small targets. Small targets are detected near a coil winding, so even my 18" mono coil hits a small nugget if it is under one edge near the winding. But getting all the windings close together does help by getting more energy into a smaller area. Best results in the field seem to come from 6" - 8" coils. That said, I wholeheartedly agree it is more a separation and coverage thing, or a getting into tight spots thing. I found the stock coil on the ATX a bit larger than I like for hunting small gold. It is perfect for all around use though.

I will be using the ATX for two weeks in salt water. Have not yet, but reports from others are positive. I am going to give it a serious workout, if nothing else we will find out if it is prone to leaks! It is actually the main reason I got the detector. I am well covered in the prospecting arena with various detectors, but needed a good waterproof PI.

The Minelab looks to have an 8" coil as its only option at this time. I am in line to get one as soon as I can but they look way out yet for delivery.

Finally, a decent video on the ATX. Well worth a watch if you are interested in the detector.

[www.youtube.com]

I have contacted Garrett again and the information available has been refined.

"The ATX can be operated with Infinium DD coils. Performance with Infinium DD coils should be normal but is not guaranteed. The ATX cannot be operated with Infinium mono coils or any other Garrett coil other than ATX coils and Infinium DD coils. Recon Pro coils will not work on the ATX. The Recon Pro is not the same machine electronically, even though it looks similar. Use of any coil other than ATX coils and Infinium DD coils, including the use of 3rd party coils, will void the warranty."

So there you have it. The only coils you can run on the ATX are ATX coils (obviously) and Garrett Infinium DD coils. There are three Infinium DD coils available, 10" x 14" DD PN: 2217100, 5" x 10" DD PN: 2216700, and 3" x 7" DD PN: 2216600.

Good info Steve...

I am not much of a fan of DD's on the Infinium...

I find the 8 mono to be the best coil for RELIC hunting on the Infinium.....

I wonder why the ATX can't use the mono...is it for the Iron I.D. circuit?

interesting..

Keith

Hi Keith,

There is an 8" round mono and 15" x 20" mono for the ATX so it can use a mono. But something in the ATX and Infinium mono is different. Not different enough that they cannot share DD coils but different enough that they cannot share mono coils. Your guess is as good as mine. The iron disc circuit only works with the DD coils.

Seem's the Iron disc circuit on the minelab only works on a DD if I remember right..

Have you had enough time in the field Steve to say when to trust the Iron disc and when not to acording to the signal strength on a coin size object...Or is it like the infinium dot even worry about it and dig it all..

I was hoping it was some new tech..maybe a hybrid vlf check mode...Doubt that though..

Keith

You are correct, the Minelab disc also only works with DD, and both only work on shallow strong targets, so possibly same method employed. I only find it helpful in confirming shallow trash targets I already am ready to pass on anyway, like in a camp area. There I would normally focus on softer targets. But if a shallow "trash" target refused to set off the disc it would be reason to dig it. There is such a thing as shallow gold.

I know some guys who claim good results in ferrous trash with the Minelab GPX system so I assume similar results can be had with the ATX. I admit to having difficulty trusting them much though.