CZ3D settings for air tests

I know some where here there are settings posted to do a air test the CZ3D. I want to air test my machine and would appreciate what settings, distances, tones and types of coins to use for this. Thank you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2010 01:14AM by coinhunter.

Hello,
I'm unsure of what you are attempting to do by air testing.
Please don't regard this post as being overly critical but I'm going to try and give you some good advice and hopefully this will help you out. I’m really not sure why you want to air test so bare with me. We've all done air tests but for different reasons and maybe some for the very same.

Coin Hunter, I've provided you with the air test settings at the bottom of this post. When I get rambling on my soap box, sometimes it gets a bit long.

Air tests really do not tell you much at all.
Its really only good to tell you that your modes, target i.d., discrimination and certain other functions are functioning. Not that they are 100% but just that they are working. Oh yea and of course, it can tell you there is a metal object under your coil when energized.
Air tests are not going to accurately determine the abilities of your detector but are really a limited diagnostic for testing purposes and if you’re a tech who is calibrating a unit.

* Are you sampling the sounds just to know hi from low, mid and the bell ?
Air tests can do this for you but its not going to tell you what a nickel sounds
like bouncing from foil to nickel at 9" as you rotate your coil to lock onto the
repeatable nickel tone. Its not going to tell how your targets sound at depth. Everything and I mean everything changes when you cover it with dirt.

· Are you attempting to compare a new detector to your previous detector or friends detector?
This is a common misconception for comparing the power of your detector / depth.
Here’s a few whys.

Air tests do not simulate the real conditions, environment and variables that
we encounter in the field.

With each set of variables whether it be target orientation i.e. coin on edge
soil conditions, soil mineralization, target masking etc etc, each detector will act differently. Depending upon how accurate your ground balance, your swing and your ability to understand what the detector is saying and possibly what it is not saying, each detector becomes a variable itself.

A good test garden can provide much needed information and get you acquainted more accurately with your detector. It will give you time to set it up, adjust the height, practice your swing, make other adjustments i.e. hip or chest mount etc and just fine tune your ears to the detector.

Even a rudimentary test garden will much more approximate the conditions and give you more feedback that you can count on with some accuracy.
In the real world, out in the field, we encounter so many variables that effect the reactions of our equipment. Sometimes we can count on what the detector is telling us, other times the detector is not giving us accurate information due to variables. You must be able to tell when your detector is fibbing to you and when you believe its being honest / accurate. Some times detectors don't tell us everything we need to know about our targets depending again upon the variables involved with our environment. If you know and understand the reasons why and why not, you won't be hunting in the dark so to speak. You'll be able to trust your detectors reaction and your own judgment with regards to the interpretation required not to dig trash and waste valuable swing time otherwise to be used on good targets covering more ground and in the end, finding more valuables.

I'm not going to go through all of the variables, lets just look at two.

Soil Conditions: Dirt Matrix, Strata Composition, lets just talk dirty.

+ The amount of or type of mineralization.
+ The amount of moisture.
+ The Ph of the soil.
+ The consistency and type of soil. Sand, Silt, Loams, Clay Loams, Clay etc.
+ The amount of strata compaction and density. Hard pan etc.
There are more but I believe this is enough to get the point across.

Just these few variables in the soil can be so numerous, we may never encounter all of them depending upon where we live and hunt. We can however accurately create many close approximations of them in a test garden. We should educate ourselves regarding the environments that we hunt in. If you plan on creating a test garden and wish some accuracy, your going to need to plan it out. You’re going to need some dirt or sand for you beach hunters to closely recreate the conditions in which you hunt. Soil is as dynamic as mother nature created it to be. One minute your on medium loam and the next few yards away your at the river bank with heavy clay or maybe sand.

Each soil variable that I previously mentioned can possibly have an effect on how your detector reacts and sometimes how it doesn't react.
The soil conditions also create variables for the target and the perimeter area surrounding the target. The Halo. The halo is the increased area of conductivity surrounding the target which has an affect of helping the detector acquire a target and sometimes at greater depth. Sometimes with less accurate target i.d. Some times when the halo is large enough your detector can even be fooled into mis i.d. of a coin. " Dang it, thought that dime was a quarter "

If the strata has a high PH balance, as a rule of thumb, your halo will be larger as compared to the same target in the same type of matrix with a lower Ph. This leaching or bleeding of the targets properties into the soil creates this halo effect around the target. Salts and other minerals also help facilitate this chemical bonding of the targets makeup into the strata as well as the distribution of this leaching into the soil matrix. The age of the target
( how long the target is in the ground ) also has an affect on the halo or the creation there of. The longer a coin is stationary in acidic soil, the larger the halo.

( Two (( BAM))) Now throw in the compaction ratio of the strata into this example.
The compaction of the soil not only affects the amount of target sink but could also affect the frequency penetration of your detectors coil.

When comparing two similar but not exactly same VLF detectors that may be working at different frequencies, you’re most likely going to get different reactions from them even if the environment is the same. They will sometimes have different reactions when dealing with different situations and different environmental conditions. One may very well be stable enough to work hot ground with heavy mineral content and not require much user compensation with the controls, the other may not go as deep or i.d. as accurately because of control settings to compensate. One detector may have a lower frequency or multiple frequencies with a lower band that will cut through highly compacted soil or even hard pan and the other may have issues with it. Did you see where we just went?

A detector working on a lower frequency can detect deeper objects than a detector working at a higher frequency. Especially if there is a substantial spread between the frequencies. Just a quick note here; lower frequencies will penetrate more but will not allow as accurate target i.d., higher frequencies will not penetrate as deep but do offer better target i.d.
I've been on hard pan coin shooting and its rough, I've sometimes had a very hard time acquiring targets at 4 or 5 " but also getting a good i.d. on them and lets not even talk about the digging.

The bottom line; take two detectors, air test them both within acceptable parameters and obtain generalized results i.e. “yep it found the pull tab” “Yep it found the dime at 10” etc.
This means nothing when you add dirt. Dirt is both the common denominator that all detectors must deal with and at the same time it’s the largest variable for detectors as there are so many combination of soil and conditions of the soil.

The only constant is that we all have to dig.


If you setup a test garden, you’ll need to setup some real world scenarios like the ones on Tom Dankowski’s
Metal Detecting Real World Techniques Inland Coin and Relic Hunting DVD.

If your going to air test a dime
You can do the following
( BTW I swiped these setting below from one of Tom’s previous posts )

Settings:

Disc. = '0' (not auto-tune)
Sens. = '5'
Gnd Bal = '10'
Volume = '10'
Mode = 'enhance'

Keep the coil away from ALL metal objects. Do NOT place the dime on the ground. Keep the dime parallel (not tilted) to the coil...... wave the dime in front of the coil.....and report how far the unit will detect the dime. Should be around 11" (+/-) 1".

I’m lucky I guess, my CZ3D will hit dimes in open air at 12-13 inches from the coil.
Not that really means much,,,,,, I guess….. :-)

Read somewhere along the way air tests on a CZ3D are not reliable as with old coins signal must mix with the coil matrix...would guess air tests are at best ballpark...Certainly opinions differ but to me in the ground tests with coins buried for years is where its at..

Grant; THANKS!

I do not like to air-test (specifically a CZ-3D); however, due to company changes, new Mfr location(s), new Mfr process, new parameters, new calibration-standards (special targets) utilized........ I felt the 'need'//requirement .....due to excessive tolerance variations from end-users; to create a 'standard' ..... a air-test standard,,,,, so as to 'expose' potential differences/problems of a detector. I felt my hands were tied.

Tom

So I guess what some of us are wondering now Tom is what do you think the new 3Ds should be air-testing at an does it make a difference?
Thanks
Aaron

I just wanted to know where to set settings on my CZ to see if it ws up to par. This is a ser # 1121XXXX with Lifetime Warranty CZ-3D. Correct me if I am wrong, waving clad nickels in front of the coil should yield "nickel" on the I.D. There are too many people who do religh on "air tests", true testes are in the soil. Thanks for the onfo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2010 04:34PM by coinhunter.

Here is quote from an older post that should answer your question about the 3D and nickels. If you do a search using CZ3D and select "all dates" most of your questions have probably already been answered.

In 'Salt' mode on CZ-3D (or 'Normal' mode on non-CZ-3D units) nickels (never exposed to dirt) should ID as 'nickel' BUT.... with one stipulation; many Shield nickels will ID as 'foil'....especially the ones that have been exposed to dirt/mother nature. (This is 'air-test' results). Dirt corroded nickels of any era..... even in an air-test..... can ID as 'foil' with units that do not have the 'enhanced' mode....or you are in 'Salt' mode.


CZ-3D in 'enhanced' mode will bring nearly ALL "Dirt-corroded" nickels up into the 'nickel' (high tone) range.... in the real dirt. IF you were to pull 100 circulating nickels out of your pocket (never exposed to dirt//not dug)...and AIR-TEST whilst in 'enhanced' mode: approx 20% - 35% will ID as 'round-tab' w/according mid-tone.........with the remainder of the nickels properly ID'ing as 'nickel'. This is for CORRECTLY calibrated CZ-3D's.

Tom

Thanks Leo. --- As far as CZ's in an air-test on a clad dime.....I consider the minimum acceptable distance to be just over 11". This goes for new CZ's or old CZ's; however, it looks like most of the new CZ's nominal range is approx 10". This is with the standard 8" coil. Also, the CZ is an extremely stable unit......and should hardly ever encounter any EMI. I have witnessed several CZ's that could only air-test a dime at 8.5".......and some of these units were not stable. On the other hand, I have witnessed CZ's that can acquire a clad dime beyond 12".....and have extreme stability at max Sens settings.

I have run my 3D at 80+ % sens just to see if I could hunt with it and maybe find deeper targets. It seems to be very stable when running hot like that with only two exception. I've had issues (total berzerker mode) next to EMI sources like power lines, .... time to turn the sens down and or move away which is normal.
EMI is always worse if you run high sens.

Occasionally it would false on me but usually only with close multiple targets or targets next to trash. I simply backed down the sens and could get a read on targets. Other than that, with the Sens maxing out, as long as you have good target separation and no EMI, my3D ran great when pushed with high sens.

I have found dimes, inland with disc set to iron, sens at 40-60% and many have been 12" and 14". This is a bit unusual because normal sink rate for the soil conditions didn't jive. They had to have been filled over because of landscaping.
I hate digging clad at these depths but I just assumed this is normal for this unit. I do quite a bit of park hunting.

On the beach, I'm not even going to tell you guys because you'll think I'm full of it. I need a garden shovel when I go to the beach with a big coil. The depth is ridiculous when I'm in salt / auto tune with the sens up at 70% or just slightly more. I was thinking about getting a P.I. but now I'm thinking about simply water proofing my CZ3D.

I have previously air tested my CZ3d when I first got it quite a few years ago and with the 10" Fisher coil it would chirp sharp and crisp on a dime at 15-16" and about 12-13" with the stock 8" coil.

I really am waiting for Coinhunter to sort out his new 3D. I'm very anxious to know what happens. Hearing a few people with concerns makes me wonder if all of the new CZ3D units are having mixed results, inconsistency, etc etc. These types of issues could jeopardize customer faith, brand loyalty and Fishers integrity. (If) Fisher is having problems, I hope they fix what ever it is and fix it fast. I'd hate to see them swirl the drain over simple stupidity like quality control or re-design issues. I want them hopefully to be with us for a few more decades.

Grant

Grant, here you go, I tested the CZ-3D ser. #11210303 Los Banos, California made with a Lifetime Warranty.

Disc. "0"
Sens. "5"
GB "10"
Vol."10"
Mod "enhance"
Stock 8" coil

Clade dime came in at 11 1/2". Sharp chirp with $ I.D.

I bought it New last year from a Fisher dealer. I detected last year with it and only got 2 silvers, Merc and a Washington say 5-6" deep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2010 04:43PM by coinhunter.

Congrats Coinhunter, you're well within normal specs for an air test.
I'm very glad to hear that you've got a good one.


Have you had any repairs, tweaks or calibration performed on your CZ3D?

How often do you hunt and for how long when you go out?

What type of hunting do you do? Parks, beach, old home sites etc.

What type of ground / soil do you mostly hunt in?

Where do you live, State?

Are you only after old silver etc, what else do you hunt for?

When you hunt, tell me what your baseline settings that you're using as far as
Disc, Sens etc.

Do you ever boost signals on the detector (turning the Volume up) and then adjusting the over all volume in your head phones ?

Have you watched Tom's Video DVD?

Regards,
Grant

Hi Grant,

Thanks, I'm glad it works well too. I'll answer all your questions, so here goes

1.No repairs, never sent back to Fisher Labs or Tom D. I used it right out of the box

2.I'll go out March to June. I'll spend about 2 hours to 1/2 day, 4X's a week. Sometimes alone or with my buddy and his DFX. My buddy killed me last year with his DFX!

3.I love parks and old sites. Allways looking for old grounds or old buildings. Love old schools as well. I'll do yards and parks. NO beaches. I try to do research. I like to go to placeses my friends have gone to that have produced silver.

4. The ground here in Massachusetts is dirt. It's nice when it's moist. Twards the summer it gets dry. No rocks. Most places I go to has grass.

5. I live in the East side of the Union, Massachusetts, New England. Great place for old coins

6. I only love to hunt for old coins, silver, large cents, IH, Buffalos, Wheaties, Colonial coins and clad. No interest in relics yet. Been detecting on and off since 1989. Have about 34 silver coins in my collection from Roosies, Mercs, Barber dimes, Washingtons, Walking halvs. Only two silver with the CZ-3D last year when I first got it.

7. Sens 4.5
Disc 0
GB around 5 I think, what ever gets me to a silent hum
Mod enhanced
Vol. 5, I wear head phones Gold Pro's. My headphones are turned all the up
to about 90% vol. with boost switch ON.

8. I never mess with my CZ settings, set them and leave them, except for the vol.
I'll play with that.

9. I bought Tom's vid, very helpfull for sure. Tom, waiting vor Vol. II. This site is excellent too!

I have had XLTs and DFXs. Loved the XLT out of the two. Contemplating on a few more Fisher's and a Garrett. This is a great hobby. Glad to have a Lifetime CZ-3D in my arsenal. Detecting with someone else is fun! I know Christopher-Ohio has written an article or two on the CZ-3D, very helpfull.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2010 03:20AM by coinhunter.

Coinhunter,
Mass / New England is a coin hunters paradise. There are more old communities with old buildings, parks, homesteads and farm houses then you can shake a stick at or sweep a coil on. In a lifetime....
I envy you as a fellow coin shooter. That's prime hunting for coins.

Have you noticed any pattern from when the ground moisture content in the spring vs summer , late summer when it is dryer? Do you find more targets or deeper targets in when its dryer?

Sounds to me like you have really got it together.

Don't worry about your friends, if you learn all you can with your CZ3D you'll have chunks of DFX users in your stool by the time your done with them.
I'll put up a "CZ3D, in the hands of a competent user" against anything out there on coins. Its an unfair cage match.
If your friends continue to out hunt you, you could always buy them some steel toe boots for a birthday or Christmas.

Depth and performance are important but not as critical as being proficient with your detector and fully understanding it especially when you are in the dynamic conditions that we all contend with.

Some people take longer to acclimate to their chosen tool of the trade.
I find that when you don't get too excited after you have acquired a target and be a bit analytical with your observations, you'll remember more. The more you remember, the stronger you'll be the next time out.
Slow down and take some mental notes. Try to remember how you acquired the target. What was the tone? What was going on when you finally got the good tone if it was weak or bouncing etc. Did you have to
twist around the target to get a repeatable signal?
Was that coin on edge? Was it tilted?, flat? Next to foil or a nail or another good target?
How deep was it on the detector and how deep was it when you finally got to it?
Was the soil really moist/dry, sandy or fine, loose or compact. Remember what your detector settings were.
Every target is different. If you keep a journal, you will have it to study during your down time, off season or just before your next hunt. Every bit of useful data you can accumulate is powerful for you. If you want to keep a journal, here's the easy way. Buy a cheap mp3 voice recorder that has an vox setting. When you talk into it it starts and when you stop it stops. You can then transpose your narrative or dictation to pen and paper or the computer after the hunt while your mental picture is still sharp and at your leisure. When you get to the level where someone like NASA-Tom is at where you don't have to dig, when you chose not to dig and your are confident with the call. You then are able to devote more time swinging on possible good targets, not increasing your chance but increasing your ability of finding valuable finds and not trash.

There are some people who will dig everything because they do not trust their own judgment or what the detector is telling them. It doesn't have to be like that if you don't want it to be. You can learn to trust your machine and yourself. There are some exercises like making a call to dig or not to dig. Then dig anyways. Sometimes its good to just take a day and for part of that hunt, watch listen and learn by slowing down, taking it all in, what is really going on here, and digging all targets even if you made a call not to dig. Do it anyways, it's a confidence builder. Most people with a new detector will do this anyways, they will dig it all until they feel they know the tones or some other mechanical feature i.e. notching etc. I say take it to the next level and if you want to go deep, dig deep, then go everywhere deep.
A confident hunter can be a successful hunter.
I never ever have enough time to hunt. I'd hunt 10 or more hours per day everyday if I could. I am forced to maximize all hunting time by being efficient, being good with my detector, I run the detector it doesn't run me. We're not talking about divining rods here, we're talking about a precision instrument, a tool and come hell or high water I'm the master of this tool. "I" strive to be the ultimate in target discrimination but only if I know the machine and the environment I'm using it in. I always keep learning, always, I never stop.

"TIME IS MONEY" for the coin shooter.


Little bit of Kentucky windage

Don't be afraid to crank the sens up on your unit.
I'm totally unaware of your soil conditions but, try going as high as you can go without sacrificing stability, i.d. or induced falsing. You might be able to eek out some low signals you'd otherwise miss. If you've been on 4.5 try 6 or 7. Try gradually increasing it until you can max it out comfortably. When you get a faint signal, dig it out a little and sweep it again. Get your coil as low as she'll go, scrub it, listen and see what comes up next.

All the best,
Grant

P.S. I'll be expecting photos of that next 1652 Pine Tree Shilling.

Grant, I do have some learning to do on the CZ. I am sure I am not fully understanding it, as it has so much potential. But that will come with time. The gound is mostly wet in the spring, making it "ideal" conditions for detecting. Don't really detect in the dry spell, so could not tell you what my depth findings are.

You have some good advice there. I'll try tweeking this spring. I have much to learn with the CZ. When I get that 1652 Pine Tree Shilling I'll post it

Take care

Grant. THANKS! Very comprehensive/thorough/exact. Making a long post is difficult,,, due to life's events. Thanks for 'covering'!