New Signum, AKA Technology , from Russia has arrived!

Very limited use so far. crappy weather
It has great depth.
Impressed with the disc circuit.
---------------------------------
My opinion is still open on its separation abilities in heavy target areas.
I need to spend time studying the hodograph display.
I think it could be a real useful tool for coinshooting.
.....................................................
No regrets on the purchase so far.

thanks,Possum

Possum - Thanks for the information.

Question - I'm looking at the 7272M for once things warm up as an E-Trac replacement (weight issues) - Similar to E-Trac sound in Polyphonic mode. You mentioned you are getting an all in one coil running 3 frequencies.
I'm curious, is it going to be like the Deus (and what Tom mentioned) that one frequency is more opimized (probably the middle one) and better performing than the others?
In my moderately mineralized ground, I think the 7kHz frequency would be best, but I wonder if getting an all in one coil might be a better idea...

Thanks,
Albert

Albert, The Signum is like the xterra series by Minelab. Plug in any frequency coil they make, and the detector adapts to that coil.
I believe they make from 1.5 kHz to 30 KHz, some frequencies must be special ordered.
I have the 13" round coil, with 3 frequencies, 3,7, & 14, all in one coil. At the top of the coil cable connector, is a 3 position toggle switch for L, M, H , freq.
I'm guessing the deus changes the frequencies in the control box???
I never owned a deus, maybe some of the experts here could answer that question.
.
I picked up that coil to give me a feel what freq will work best in my soil.
The price of a 3 freq coil is equal to the price of 2 single freq coils.
I used the poly audio mode at the beach and I liked it. Its more like a 4 tone T2 audio to me. It has 5 audio options.
After one beach hunt, The Signum really resembles a Souped up T2, with the depth of my old Explorer. A lot of optional settings, but of course a 50% higher price tag.
The T2 will separate signals better in high trash, In my Opinion after one hunt. The T2 has a faster recovery speed, and narrower signal.
Again, my opinions are only based on one 2 hr hunt in my ground. , and are subject to change after more testing/ hunting.
Its supposed to warm up around Feb 10th here, so I'll get out then.

I'm posting some pics on Treasurenet. Click on forums, go down to other brands, click on it, and click on the Signum thread.
Its too much of a hassle to post pics here. Once I get back to hunting, Ill photo the hodo screen of the targets I dig up.

Hello,Daryl,
this is not quite correct comparing.All x-terras are much weaker and simple things from all points of view.Considering the Real Time Channel in Signum and its depth,none of tracks or deuses can compare with.Considering a quantity of options in Signum,it is the same or more even to compare with tracks.
So my opinion is,that Signum is not less interesting,may be more,than deus or track.In the Short Tone Channel (the definition channel) in Signum with 3 kHz coil (15") 25 mm.coin is caught on approx.65-70 (!!!!!!) cm.

possum - Thanks for you reply, but I don't think I was clear in my question. I understand how the coils work though.

What I am asking is this: Is a 3 frequency coil less powerful (in any 1 frequency) than a single frequency coil of that same frequency. Tom talked about this. Because basically, if you have windings that will work in 3 frequencies they
are sort of "averages" regarding tuning and performance but if you have a winding tuned for just 1 frequency, then it is optimal. Also, the 3 frequency coil (like the Deus) is probably tuned for 1 frequency best (most likely the middle one).

Am I making my question clear? Thanks again for your help and posts, much appreciated.
We have a very interesting machine here. It may not be as good at separating as a Deus, F75, etc. but it seems much much faster and lighter (and perhaps deeper - what I am looking for) than an FBS machine, and that is what I would be ecstatic with.
But, can you compare the speed of a 13" coil on the Signum to that of an F75 (much smaller) or were you using a 10" coil?

Albert



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2014 10:29AM by earthmansurfer.

If you do not mind,I will try to reply as a dealer of AKA for international deals.So,for the first question,the answer is-no.It does not matter if you use 1 frequency coil or the same size coil of 3 frequencies,the depth is the same using the same frequency.
And,yes,it is very comfortable not to change coils in fields,just touch a switcher and the detector will adopt to a new frequency.
Next and very important,please,do not consider,that any of AKAs are less available in separating,than f75 or deus.Do not think so.There are options in the menu,which are abscent in those detectors,which make detecting with Signum on trash and not trash sites efficiently.Let us even not to mention f75 in comparing at all from all points of view and francly speaking,AKA is only considers XP as worthy to compare from some points.

Iv'e certainly never heard a huckster holler " rotten bananas". Igor, your are saying AKA's are in the arena with the Deus and the GMP as far as un-masking?

I say,that not only Signum as a topline,but also Sorex Pro are the same or better from some points,than the best VLF machines at present.



ozzie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iv'e certainly never heard a huckster holler "
> rotten bananas". Igor, your are saying AKA's
> are in the arena with the Deus and the GMP as far
> as un-masking?

Hmmmmmm.

Albert, I do remember the discussions about the different frequencies on the deus. On the 3 freq 13 " coil I have, I believe the coil has 3 separate windings , one for each freq? The coil cable is much thicker on the three freq coil, than the cable wires on the single freq coils I have. Plus the switch at the top of the cable connector.
If you get a chance, go to the forum I posted pics on.
I do not think the three freq coil lacks any performance, over my single freq coil. Now coins are detectable at greater distances in the 3 kHz freq, vs the 14Khz, and gold is more sensitive in the 14 kHz vs 3 KHz freq, same coil, but that's expected.
I have been unable to airtest this coil in my shop as it is just too sensitive for my small shop space.

Thanks again Possum - I did check out your pics and then found the Russian thread and went through that (but with Google Translate you just get a sliver of the information, still a bit interesting.)
Interesting regarding the coil. I might go for the 10" in 3 frequencies then. (If they have one).

I'm looking forward to the thaw and seeing what you and Reese have to say about the machine. And of course, I haven't forgotten that Fisher might have a new MF coming out. Any word?

Igor - I think Possum shared his thoughts that the Signum is not in the same class regarding separation of the F75. His words "The T2 will separate signals better in high trash, In my Opinion after one hunt. The T2 has a faster recovery speed, and narrower signal. " He did say just one hunt, but if he noticed that just after one hunt, I have to pay attention to that. Anyway, I wasn't expecting that kind of speed with this much more depth. Maybe you can share some videos or links regarding the speed Igor?

Thanks,
Albert

I think instead of hearing from the company itself about how great their product is, just send it to Tom and let him review it.

Albert, when air testing this machine, I can take a dime, and wave it back and forth in front of the coil as fast as I can,4-5 inch swing , 6-8 inches away, and this machine doesn't miss a signal. But throw in the ground signal, or other targets, and it slows it down.

They will be making them in America soon since metal detecting was outlawed in Russia back in the summer 2013!!

Maybe you can share some videos
> or links regarding the speed Igor?
>
> Thanks,
> Albert
---------------------------------------


Albert,have a look at this video,probably it will help.Thanks.
[yandex.ru]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2014 08:34AM by Igor.

Does anyone know how much running disc hurts depth? Can you turn off the AM side of things? (Does it hurt depth much?)

I'm thinking of the E-Trac here, I love running some disc to quiet things down and silencing the iron. Before I buy one I'd like to be sure I can handle things, as I prefer a quieter hunt.

Thanks in advance,
Albert

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know how much running disc hurts
> depth? Can you turn off the AM side of things?
> (Does it hurt depth much?)
>
> I'm thinking of the E-Trac here, I love running
> some disc to quiet things down and silencing the
> iron. Before I buy one I'd like to be sure I can
> handle things, as I prefer a quieter hunt.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Albert


Albert,
in Sorex Pro there are options,which could make detecting more comfortable and more quiet if an user wishes so.Among them,the volume of Fe targets allows to decrease corresponding sounds from Fe.Then,short tone border,this setting allows to move artificially a border when you wish a short tone (ID tone) to appear and you can make it in Fe section also.That means,for example,some targets from non-ferrous section could appear in Fe (minus) section,but you can change and for example,all targets from (+) section up to (-20 VDI),less or more due to you and these signals also will sound as non-ferrous.The Real Time sounding (it is like trashhold,but not it is),this is a separate ID channel working constantly and showing all targets by the same sounding.Exactly about this sounding I mentioned above in order to decreas its volume.Then,there are special algorithms,staying in the menu as separate options,which allow to sound differently in accordance with trash or non-trash sites and changing them,you can also make detecting more quiet.
All that capability also concerns Signum,of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 10:07PM by Igor.

Albert, when I was hunting at the beach, running in St-P audio, the iron sound was very bearable. The volume for iron appears to be very low in ST-P. I have read where some users also cut down the sensitivity on the ST channel, and still get great depth in the disc channel.

possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Albert, when I was hunting at the beach, running
> in St-P audio, the iron sound was very bearable.
> The volume for iron appears to be very low in
> ST-P. I have read where some users also cut down
> the sensitivity on the ST channel, and still get
> great depth in the disc channel.


Daryl,I suppose you meant,that someones decreased a sensitivity of the the Real Time channel and thus,the volume of all metal sounding.A sensitivity of ID channel (Short tone) does not change in this case.Of course,also a sensitivity of Short tone could be decreased,this action will show more comfortable searching,but with less sensitivity.

Thanks for the responses guys. And thanks for the quick email replies Igor, very much appreciated!

I just started the manual so excuse my ignorance, but perhaps these questions helped some others wondering the same thing.

Really interesting Igor regarding the ability to move non-ferrous ID's to the Ferrous section - "short tone border" - This sounds a bit like bins on the CTX if I remember correctly.

And just to be clear (Igor) you are saying everything you said above regarding the Sorex Pro is also on the Signum? Is there a comparison chart or the like that shows the differences between the Sorex Pro and Signum?
They are a few hundred apart in price, is it mostly the extra inch or two we are paying for or?

So, you can't get the same depth by reducing sensitivity on the AM side? This sounds strange as the Disc Sensitivity is separate, no? Are the two somehow connected?

Thanks in advance,
Albert

Albert,you are welcome whenever and whatever you ask.Answering to your last points,I suppose it is better to look through the manuals by yourself and to see all the differencies and capabilities.Both manuals are in English and both are replaced in the oficial AKA site.If you need links for those manuals,I will show then.
And the matter is,that when switching and using Sorex or Signum,you have like 2 detectors working simultaneously.One of them (the Real time channel) works in AM mode showing all metals with the same tone and the second runs in the ID mode (the Short tone channel).Both modes are driven independently,when decreasing one from them,the second does not change and could be also regulated together from the menu,changing the gain,and with other options-algorithms,filters...All this corresponds to Signum,of course.I mean option by option way.In Sorex,it is the same way of running,but shorter of settings.
All that above is a special feature of AKA detectors as well as the hodograph ID itself.
Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2014 08:46PM by Igor.

I went out on another short beach hunt today. Picked up some coins and 4 jewelry items. I posted some pics on the treasurenet forum, under forums, metal detectors, other brands.
Also took some pics of the hodograph. I think I'm going to like that gizmo.

possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went out on another short beach hunt today.
> Picked up some coins and 4 jewelry items. I
> posted some pics on the treasurenet forum, under
> forums, metal detectors, other brands.
> Also took some pics of the hodograph. I think I'm
> going to like that gizmo.

I should have my Signum next week but won't have time to use it for another week. But plan on seeing some nice videos...

I had a Whites V3i for quite a few months and never got into the holograph display but that detector had so many features that you couldn't really focus on one.
The really nice thing about the Signum is that the hodograph is the main screen, always. I'm a visual person in part, probably why I love the E-Trac and it's 2D screen so much - it talked to me.
Sound first, for sure, but I have a feeling that hodograph combined with sound AND the confidence meter is going to speak volumes.

Question regarding tones - Looking through the manual and watching videos, p.21 RT-M (Real time Multifrequency) "This is a single channel (RT) search mode with tone or audio ID. This differes from the other ID modes in that the ST channel is not used."
Now, this sounds to me like Tone ID BUT it is NOT in the ST (short disc tone channel) side of things. Doesn't that sort of make this like a tone ID threshold mode? My point is, wouldn't that be a very deep mode? The RT only mode is one tone and described for deep targets.

I'm a bit confused as AKA states that RT-ST and RTL-ST are the preferred modes, but I (and some others like Scott Hughey who made some videos - check Youtube), seem a bit drawn to this mode. Seems like there is more information in the sound and perhaps, as I mentioned above, it should go deeper that the ST side of other modes, which is the beep we usually rely on.

edit - Here is Scott's video that I mentioned [www.youtube.com]

Thanks in advance,
Albert

ps - Earthmansurfer is back



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 01:40PM by earthmansurfer.

Albert,
The RT-M mode corresponds to the RT channel as well.This mode is based on RT revealing of targets,but with an option to divide different conductive data and to sound with several tones.This mode is considered with the same depth as the RT mode.
But,having an ability to set the ST channel separately,it is also possible to reach the same depth with the ST channel.
You can compare these modes personally.
What coils or coil did you buy with your Signum?Probably,it depends on their frequencies better to use one or the other mode.
And,the RT-M mode is recommended to use for trash areas more.

Thanks for the reply Igor. I will have the 10.5"DD 7kh coil. My soil is moderately mineralized and lower frequencies seem to do much better on deeper coins.
I will of course compare the modes as you suggest but you said what I thought might be the case. I prefer a quieter hunt so probably will not use the RT channel with ST all that often, unless I can lower the RT sensitivity to make it quieter but then there probably isn't much of an advantage.

There is a fair amount of iron in the ground here in Nürnberg so I would prefer a quieter hunt, so I thought the RTM mode would be a good choice. Will play around when it gets here.

Thanks again,
Albert

My only issue with the sorex and signum was their ability around iron and especially iron unmasking..... Just when I compared against the vista smart and goldbug pro it failed, test was a silver sixpence placed under a clump of rusty nails, both smart and goldbug saw through the nails but the sorex and signum failed.

I adjusted the LT bound just to break on the nails and still could not see through.

Looking forward to Keith's vids and earthmansurfers if you both do some videos.

Depth wise I've seen the sorex pull deep coins but never had another detector at hand at the time to see if the soil was in favour for all.

Ziggy what frequency did you use? Was it the stock 7khz? If I'm not mistaken the goldbug pro is a much highher frequency detector.

If I recall the sorex was 7khz and the signum was 14khz..... Both of them are lower frequency than the smart at 15.5khz.

Me personally never bonded with the two AKAs and if any I found the sorex more pleasant to use, I think my attitude towards the AKAs was wrong and I looking at them as deep seeking machines so I was trying to screw every last inch of power out of them on a well hunted site, by doing this they were running twitchy and falsing.
I asked a friend that knows all about the machines to meet me and he set up the signum as I was getting frustrated with it falsing and sounding off.

He did a great job and calmed it down and was ok to use after that... What it did to search depths I will never know as it's hard to find deep items in my ground with any detector due to being far sunk out of reach or just plain and simply items are not there.

With all honesty I did not get out that much testing due to constant rain so I personally couldn't get setup and perform tests in my usual manor.

Some machines you gel with quick like I have with many detector but the AKAs I tried I never felt like I wanted to own one for one reason or another.

No doubt a machine that is capable with a more expericed user but just not my cup of tea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2014 09:27AM by Ziggy.