(((((((((-The Deeper The Keeper-)))))))))

Hi,,,,I kinda chuckle to myself as I read through the posts on various forums on the net....Some of these guys are getting unheard of depths with their machines......As I'm reading them my mind starts to play tricks on me..First I start hearing the voice of Rod Steiger then before long, I start hearing The Twilight Zone theme song slowly fading in....But luckily just before the theme song gets to loud for me to bare, I move on..LoL..Anyways if I had to average out how deep most of my silver coins,wheats and Indian head pennies etc. come from it would be six to eight inches....Now this is not to say that there is no coins deeper than that because I know there has to be some....I also personally can't say unequivocally that I can penetrate much deeper than that......What would you say your average depth would be on your older coinage that you find?? Now I'm talking about the average depth of your older coins not an exception to the rule????....JJ

Average silver coin depth for me is only around 6-7" it's rare for me to find over 8" unless it's a wheat

That's Rod ((Serling)). ; )

Here are some random, somewhat dis-jointed thoughts...

First off, and jimmyjiver you alluded to this, we "can't know what we don't know," sort of like NASA-Tom has said on here before. Obviously, if most old coins in an area lie in, let's say, the 8" to 12" range, and yet our detectors can't generally see a coin deeper than 8" to 9", we would therefore be likely to dig most of our old coins in the 6" to 8" range, and as such might conclude that the "average depth" of old coins is 6" to 8". But, obviously, that would not be true, in the hypothetical example I gave...as we wouldn't even DETECT the deeper coins, thus "skewing" our perception of "average."

I know that's a pretty obvious statement, but I just wanted to put that out there, because I really believe that except in the mildest of soils, coins deeper than 6" to 8" deep are REALLY tough to detect, and dig. SO, it would make sense that the experience of many detectorists would be that 6" to 8" is a depth that, on average, a majority of our old coins come from.

Another contributor, I think, to this 6" to 8" range being "average," for old coins, is that even inexperienced detectorists, with low-end machines, can fairly easily dig 4" deep coins. So, obviously, it would make sense that a good number of the coins existing down to the 4" to 6" range -- some of which being OLD coins -- have been previously dug over the past 40 to 50 years. Thus, again, this would make that 6" plus range a zone where coins are more plentiful (simply due to being closer to the fringe of detection depth). This factor would further support a 6" to 8" range being seen by many of us as being an "average" depth.

Now, all that being said, I would concur in that most of my silver coins/wheats/indians/old nickels have come from 4" to 8" deep; a few in the 1" to 4" range, and some others in the 8" to 10" range, but the majority having come from that 6" to 8" depth range.

I would also like to mention, that I don't know how much deeper old coins naturally exist, in the type of dirt we have around here (fairly dense, red clay). Obviously, some coins have been buried by fill dirt and such, but I am not sure in this type of soil that coins end up a whole lot deeper than that 6" to 8" range by themselves. Supporting this is the fact that when hunting old, undisturbed/unhunted dirt, it is not at all uncommon for those of us who hunt here to find a large percentage of 100- to 150-year old coins in the 4" to 6" deep range. Conversely, on well-hunted sites, a sub-6" old coin is rare. I have found a definite, negative correlation in my experience between the amount of hunting pressure (and human disturbance of the turf), and the average depth that old coins tend to be retrieved from, not surprisingly. Heavily hunted, and/or disturbed dirt = deeper coins, on average, whereas little to no hunting and non-disturbed dirt = shallower coins, on average.

Adding ALL of this together, for my area, I think the average depth that old coins seem to exist naturally, is the 4" to 6" range; the average depth however that I have FOUND most of my old coins, is in the 6" to 8" range.

Again, most of the areas I hunt have been heavily hunted in the past, thus resulting in most old coins I find being relatively deep; also, most of the areas I hunt have fairly dense, red clay-type soil, which has two effects -- one, that it seems to hinder the depth to which coins tend so "sink," and two, the iron content tends to limit the depth to which coins can be detected...

Again, just some long-winded, somewhat dis-jointed thoughts...on an interesting topic. Thanks for the post, jimmyjiver. I look forward to hearing others' ideas...

Steve



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2014 06:33PM by steveg.

On average I find them in the 3-4 ft range using my Bounty Hunter pioneer 101! LOL !! Just Kidding here in Georgia they are in the 1-7" range deepest one I found was 10" and was a barber dime.

Hi Aaron,,,LoL I knew Rod Serling done The Twilight Zone....That's what makes it so weird I'm hearing Rod Steiger's voice not to mention I wanted to see if anyone was paying attention. ...JJ

Oh ok, gotcha Jimmy. Yeah that is weird!

Hi Steve,,,,Notice I'm talking about my area and my past experience which spans decades.....If I had to guess the average depth they ran 30 years ago it would be five to seven inches....I can tell before I dig a coin if it's going to be an older coin or not, just from the sound of the modulated audio....There is however some rare occasions where I get fooled or some unnatural forces have been at play....JJ

Hi 88junior,,,That's kinda funny you mentioned a Bounty Hunter....Last year I pulled into a fairgrounds I have been working for a couple of days and a guy had one....I asked him if he was doing any good? he said "I'm getting a few coins".........I then asked him how deep does that machine go? and he replied "most of the coins I get are 10 to 12" deep"...I just said WoW my machine won't go that deep maybe I ought to get one of them.....I chuckled to myself as I slowly drove off...LoL.... JJ

jimmyjiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi 88junior,,,That's kinda funny you mentioned a
> Bounty Hunter....Last year I pulled into a
> fairgrounds I have been working for a couple of
> days and a guy had one....I asked him if he was
> doing any good? he said "I'm getting a few
> coins".........I then asked him how deep does that
> machine go? and he replied "most of the coins I
> get are 10 to 12" deep"...I just said WoW my
> machine won't go that deep maybe I ought to get
> one of them.....I chuckled to myself as I slowly
> drove off...LoL.... JJ

10 to 12? Maybe he meant "centimeters..."

Steve

Looking at a 6" deep hole tricks the mind...it looks deeper, especially to someone who doesn't work with measurements daily. The 6" hole appears to be deeper, more like 9 or 10 inches. Even to the trained eye it can be deceiving. When I made my test garden, the 10" deep hole looked much deeper until I put the tape in the hole.

Averaging the 1800's coins I have found, ballpark guess and with my good eye, I would say about 6 to 8 inches deep.

I have also dug deeper coins chasing flat buttons in the 18"+ depth. That's when you dig a hole, retrieve the target, put the coil back in the hole and get another signal of a deeper target, and repeat....next thing you know your down to your shoulder.

There are plenty of 'out of range' coins out there.

I believe the 6-8" range is about right in my soil. I do believe there are a lot more coins beyond the depth of detection than in that range though. When I first started this hobby 35 years ago most of the old coins I found were in the 6" range back then so how much deeper would they be now after 35 years? I've hunted too many old yards that have never been hunted before and come up with too little to think otherwise. 35 years ago I could count on doing pretty well in the same type yards. Of course there are a lot of variables. I believe coins in a grass yard or park that is cut frequently will be much deeper than coins found in a wooded area. The subject of sinking coins has been discussed here before but I believe coins sink very little. I believe the vegetation growing and being cut over the top of them are what make them deep.

When Im in the coastal areas I have dug some DEEEEEP coins plus bulltets and about everything else...

but I have managed to get Flying eagles at true 13"....Seated quarters at 14+ Big Penny's 14+..But if I had of had a meter im sure they would of read iron....just a minute click in open area's...using larger coils and listening for the faintest of hits on all metal and cross checking in Disc...

But there's no way any target I.D. is accurate at that depth...

But its like I alwasy say till you seen 3 ringer's dug past your elbow it's hard to believe...

I watched my buddy pull some years ago with a soveriegn with 11" coil in all metal in a washed in ravine that we used a set of post hole diggers to get them...

but deep hunting is a learned trait and only works in certian dirt and in certain less irony site's.

Keith

Can't remember where I read it, but, after seeing what amounted to post after post of ridiculously extreme depth claims on a forum years ago (15", 18", etc.) somebody posted that a fisherman must be taking these measurements, lol. Glad this thread was started, as I too have pondered this same thought many times through the years

Here in the NY/NJ area, if you're looking for old coins/silver (my primary focus), you'd be VERY hard pressed to find any shallower than 5 or 6". Most of the 'easy pickins' we're taken out loooong ago by other detectorists. So, for myself & my rotation of hunting buddies, we rarely dig any signal less than say 4 or 5". Why? Based on thousands of holes dug over the course of many moons, we know 99% of the time it's going to be clad or junk. The other one percent, you ask? Yes, we're surely missing the odd gold ring or shallow silver, however, what we lose, we also make up for in spades by digging only very specific signals - based on a culmination of; tone first, depth second & VDI third. We're also concentrating specifically on those soft, faint, barely there 'whisper' signals, as those are the deepest, and based on experience, oldest coins.

Most of our old coins/silver comes in between the 6 to 10" mark. Any deeper than that tends to usually be iron. However, like many of you, I've had the nice relic or old coin be in the 10"+ range. Again though, we know our spots well. We've dug there enough to estimate where the oldies are. If we're hunting a new area, we 'll start out digging damn near everything to figure out the 'age line' of where the dated stuff falls into. This is why the Minelab's are almost impossible to beat for coin hunting. Using the tone, depth & VDI together as an analysis tool, it's frighteningly accurate...even at extreme depths. For instance, if I get one of those whisper signals (my favorite), and it's got a nice, clean, clear sound, I almost immediately know it's a relic or deep coin. Then, based on the numbers, if it's in a certain range (because depth will skew VDI readings) that's another piece of Intel we use. If it's deep, sounds good & is hitting in a certain range, it's a winner! The TONES on a ML are your biggest friend

All this being said, I've dug coins & relics 100, 150 years old that were 3 or 4". I normally think to myself; "how in the hell did anyone miss this?!?!". But, as we all know, nobody can get everything. Add to this, most hunters are either lazy or inexperienced (not the ones on this forum though), lol. Now, I know Tom's theory of 'what you don't know, you don't know'. One part of me understands it & it makes perfect sense, yet, the other part cannot even conceptualize a coin being down 15 or 16" outside of the beach. I can't comprehend it. But, if one takes into consideration fill dirt, erosion throughout the years, different types of dirt, the weight of the relic/coin, etc....who knows, it's certainly plausible that stuff could be down that deep. Now we just need a machine that can find them!

Sorry to be so long winded, however, this is truly fascinating, controversial subject matter.

P.S. - I'll leave y'all with one of those what came first scenarios, the chicken or the egg. As I stated earlier, once I dig down say 9, 10", I usually start muttering to myself that it's not a coin, but rather, a deep piece of iron. And the majority of the time I'm correct. There's a TREMENDOUS amount of deep, deep iron, and I should know, as I find boatloads, haha. Now, that iron didn't just form there, it was made by someone. It was used for something. So, if that piece of iron is down there, what ELSE is down there?

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2014 08:31PM by njnydigger.

Hi,, You know what's interesting and kinda of an eyeopener @@ ??? Is I worked the same spot I worked 20 or 30 years earlier and documented my finds back then and now....Here's what is odd, I'm running the same machine I ran back then...But there's one BIG difference now.. I'm now pulling an abundance of a lot more older coins out of this same worked out location ....What changed???? My only answer is I'm more experienced and my mindset has changed....Does it really take that many years to consistently pull the older coinage????........JJ

Yes Jimmy if theres deep iron theres deep good target's...

Ill tell you one thing thats really hard....

Try looking for deep High conductor belt plates....theyre big brass but if the area is littered with deep large iron and the dirt is disturbed then Big iron and big brass mimic each other quite well..

Keith

((( You know my discoveries/comments/statments/findings )))!

6 inches is about average but using a CZ and Explorer know there are some 10-12 inches...
Heres an interesting thought or two....years ago hunted a baseball field where 8-12 inches had been scraped off in an effort to resod and cure the drainage problem....in the scraped area and we hunted hard got barbers up to 8 inches deep so does that mean before the scraping those barbers were 16-20 inches deep? Heck in some areas they may be 25-30 inches and certainly we are not going to get them with a conventional unit. Heck one never knows we may have walked over 200-300 year old coins and not a peep out of the headphones.....

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 6 inches is about average but using a CZ and
> Explorer know there are some 10-12 inches...
> Heres an interesting thought or two....years ago
> hunted a baseball field where 8-12 inches had been
> scraped off in an effort to resod and cure the
> drainage problem....in the scraped area and we
> hunted hard got barbers up to 8 inches deep so
> does that mean before the scraping those barbers
> were 16-20 inches deep? Heck in some areas they
> may be 25-30 inches and certainly we are not going
> to get them with a conventional unit. Heck one
> never knows we may have walked over 200-300 year
> old coins and not a peep out of the
> headphones.....

I had a similar experience. There is an old school yard right in back of my house. Its been hunted to death and while I've not found any silver I've found several wheat pennies. A couple years ago they took off about 4 inches of sod to make a beach volleyball court. I went out before they filled in with sand and found 4 more wheat pennies and 2 mercs just in the space of a volleyball court.

Hi,,I read somewhere that there is more coins lost than there is in circulation today,,,,,I really don't know if that's true or not or how someone could prove that one way or the other....But just think how many coins are even hidden or masked by a nail,bottle cap or even a flake of rust etc.at a depth of six inches or less....I put on a small coil once after running my Tejon with the stock coil and coming up empty.....I could not believe the targets I was hearing with the small coil but the coins were only clad....It was like I could not get the older coins that I knew had to be deeper....JJ

I was hunting in an old yard........ out by the old brick sidewalk one day. I was told by the owner that the next door neighbor had hunted the yard and doubted whether I would find anything of worth but told me to have a go of it. Man, this yard was close to virgin, wheat pennies from the teens on almost every swing, then a double nickel spill in the same hole, a V and a Buffalo. Did the neighbor guy even have batteries in his detector? Then I heard a broken signal, looked down at a partially buried rusty steel bottlecap, reached down and picked it up and put it in my junk pouch.Then I swung my Toltec ll back over where the bottlecap had been and got a deep zinc reading, dug down 6" and pulled up a pair of Indian head pennies. Things were looking very promising in this yard. Ended up with a couple of Mercury dimes at 6" deep and a Barber dime that read as a pulltab, could'nt figure that one out. I even found some silver dimes under some shallow clad after resweeping the hole. The goodies are out there, just need to go after it. Lately I have been swinging a beep and dig Tesoro Outlaw and have been finding as much as my buddy with his high end detector.

Hey Jimmy

do you remember back in the 80s when they took off about 6 to 8 inches of sod/dirt from the oldest park in Saginaw on Washington st. (Hoyt park) to re-landscape and put in a new ball-field?

I do - it was insane!! 100s of guys with detectors came from a 100 miles in all directions and fights broke out for weeks on end while they were doing the work (it was all over news 5 for a couple of weeks)!!

Guys were finding bust and seated coins galore (as well as many other types) but - some of them were 6 to 8 inches deep and that's after they removed a good 6 - 8 inches of top soil

I'll never forget that one! Guys (in their 30s, 40s, and 50s) were literally punching/fist fighting over the "prime" areas to hunt! lol

I was just a young'en (early 20s - weighed maybe a buck 50) so I stayed on the fringes away from all of those idiots but I did find a few good keepers myself ;-)

That park has a sign embedded in a large stone/rock in the front near the road that states when it was deemed/declared a park (1828 I believe it says)

Many coins are deeper than most of our machines can pick up on - that's for sure

I'd say on avg. the 6 to 8 inch range for old coins is my avg. too...

I have pulled some at unbelievable depths too though -- using good machines with huge coils and the like --- that and/or in sand on the beach/in the water

Hi MRH,, I'm glad you brought that up....I totally missed that event....But it does shed some light on Hoyt Park and why it sucked rotten eggs....I even worked the grass strips going through town on Washington street?..That must of been redone too..... I always wondered about that and why it was no good, so thanks for the info....I totally agree on some coins being out of reach and there's nothing we can do about it....JJ

PS: Hoyt Park Factoid.... During the 1920's it was not uncommon for the park to have 7,000 patrons in ONE DAY! In the 1930s, Hoyt Park was averaging 100,000 skaters every winter..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2014 12:10AM by jimmyjiver.

People say they dig the silver at 6-8 inches...and thats acceptable...but the problems is the coins they dig at 6-8 inches are the one that's pushing the i.d ability of the machine to be correct....

People dig coins alot deeper but they do not rely on a meter and they dig alot of deep trash ferrous and non ferrous targets to do it....

I always wonder why peopel say they dont want a machine to go deeper since the coins they find are only less than 8 usually 6 inches...theres a reason for that!

Keith

NOW this thread is going in the correct direction!

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People say they dig the silver at 6-8 inches...and
> thats acceptable...but the problems is the coins
> they dig at 6-8 inches are the one that's pushing
> the i.d ability of the machine to be correct....
>
> People dig coins alot deeper but they do not rely
> on a meter and they dig alot of deep trash ferrous
> and non ferrous targets to do it....
>
> I always wonder why peopel say they dont want a
> machine to go deeper since the coins they find are
> only less than 8 usually 6 inches...theres a
> reason for that!
>
>Keith


I 2nd that one Keith

I used to use a CZ20 for a long time and at one point for about 4 yrs it was my only machine so I used it on land as well as in water

but

as you know - there's no screen/VID, no meter or nothing - it's all "sound" based 3 tone (low, med, high)

I had the 10.5" coil on mine and there were many times I pulled coins at 12" on dry land and even deeper in the water

The Etrac I just sold with the 10x14 Excelerator DD EQ2 coil could hit coins deeper than that! I pulled a 1930s aluminum cracker jack token (quarter size) at a solid 15" -- it was elbow deep and that ain't no joke but I wasn't looking at the screen to determine if I should dig or not either - it's all based on sound on the etrac too

I hated selling that machine/setup but I had to have a new/er vehicle and I'll replace it with the CTX soon enough anyway - but - if I find that I don't like it for some reason/s - I'll sell that and get another Etrac!

I could always tell the DEEP good targets on the etrac - the ones just on the fringe of barely registering a sound/hit - they always had/have a good sound at least one way and very faint - I didn't even look at the screen and yet could tell it was deep and good!

Another thing about the etrac (even on deep targets) is - if while pinpointing you get any sort of "crackle and variation of pitch" in the signal while pinpointing - 99.99% guaranteed it's junk of some type

it doesn't lie in pinpoint mode - I figured that one out after about 200 hrs of use - I could tell if it was going to be junk or not just by that method alone and whether deep or not

I'm hoping the CTX is the same in that regard ;-)

Don't worry, the CTX is even better!

This whole thread has really renewed my faith in hunting in all-metal and just going after the faint deep signals. I hunt this way a lot but then check it in disc mode. If it don't give a chirp I move on. Maybe I should try digging some of these and see what happens. Deepest coin I ever remember getting was a 1911 silver quarter down 13". Got it with my old Whites Coinmaster in all metal, but that one chirped in disc so I went for it!

Hey Arthur the ones that dont chirp ore make any noise are the ones that get me excited the most....you have to cut the cake so to speak....the really deepies that are out of the disc range are sometimes the best...

Cut enough of the plug out to see what kind of read you get...if it starts sounding good look out ...your in no man's land..thats usually the oldies...

Keith

In the areas I hunt the older coins are usually 8" and deeper. I have good soil and usually the Etrac will hit on these fairly well. One reason for this is probably because I hunt local parks and most of the easy ones are long gone. I went to my sons yard and detected there and found 3 silver coins and they were at the 8-9 inch mark too. I believe that many are out of my reach too. Maybe our soil allows them to sink deep.

So many variables determine depth