Troy shadow X5 vs CZ-3D for depth and hunting conditions

Hello, Can anyone tell me about the Shadow X5 and how it stands up to a CZ-3D for depth and all around hunting capabilities. I have a 1021 series CZ-3D that I was told had been calibrated by Tom D. back in 2010. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Having used both, I can say the X5 will hit harder on lower conductive targets and smaller gold. If you are looking for deeper silver and copper coins, and plan to hunt salt water beaches, the 3D is the ticket.

These 2 detectors compliment each other very well.

Really depends on what you primarily hunt for, and in what conditions.

Coin hunting in a trashy park with lots of tabs and aluminum will drive the X5 crazy, even at higher discrimination levels. You can run the 3D in normal mode ( as opposed to enhanced), in that type of environment, and not get a lot of high tone hits on broken tabs and aluminum, as they will mostly hit as mid tone in normal mode ( whereas the may have hit as a high tone, making you think it is a coin).

3D does have 2 another advantages...tone ID and a meter.

X5 has a quicker recovery speed and is much easier to swing on the stock configuration. The 3D can be hip mounted.

The Shadow X5 is a very deep machine...

the X5 is total opposite of the CZ though...

the Shadow is deeper than the CZ but the CZ i.d's the Shadow does not..

that's the thing you need to get a grip around...

people like the CZ for say it can I.D. a dime in the dirt accurately at 10 inches...but remember that's the limit ...the I.D. and depth go hand in hand on the CZ platform...its there then its not there as the i.d. is tied to the tonal response...

the Shadow can get much past 10 inches on a dime..its really deep but you need to have it set at just nail reject and if a meter was tacked on the machine no telling what it would read on the dime? Foil hot rock ?? never know what it would say...

the CZ was made for accurate I.D. to a certain obtainable depth ..after that it does not want to lie so the engineers set it up like that..

the Shadow can get cray depths but with no way of knowing really what it is till its in your hand's on the deepies..

now the Shadow does have a coin check which is essentially turning up the disc by pressing a button..so that's accurate to a certain depth..as accurate as the CZ meter at same dpeth? maybe not...

one thing also to note on the Shadow is the pinpoint only works on coin sized objects to 8 inches...so get a hit you think may be a coin ..(you know good tight hit that cross check's on the coin check switch as good also) then you press the pinpoint and hear nothing..well you know its a deepie and maybe a goodie..

The Shadow is on 19khz but dont let that discourage your from thinking tis not a silver monster..Actually in areas I dig very few or any coins the Shadow has surprised me with some Deep seated coin's.

Troy designed a boost circuit on the high conductors and I must admit whatever he did First Texas needs to find it out and put it in the G2..(also 19khz)

The CZ would be more of a park machine or yard and better on a beach and the Shadow would be more of a machine to dig it all but iron...its more of a antique old site silver/brass getter if that makes sense..

the Shadow will work through iron much better than the CZ also and make find's...

The CZ will cherry pick in iron better for the most part..but wont dissect iron...

Theres a few versions of the Shadow X5 as it evolved...I like the pre 700 serial number but above 300 unless the iron mod has been done to it..then the first 300 are as good to me..the first 300 were a little toto nosiy in iron so a filter was added...and that would of been fine but the disc range on any Shadow x5 in the nail area of acceptr reject is not very finetunable...so troy insted of in my opinion opening up the nail range for fine tuneablity choose to filter the repsonse some and CLEAN up the noise...whenin actuallity a wider window would of lead to more unmasking...
((((((((________( And that bring another subject up...the X5 is a great machine and very deep but its not the best unmasker in iron..I actually lean toward a Tejon in iron more same type machine in alot of way's)

( Also remember the Ground bal is critical on this machine get it off too much and its a bear to run....and as you change your ground bal remembr to fine tune the disc circuit nails will sound good or be rejected too much as the Gorund Bal is changed)________)))))))

After 700 the threshold was set internally on disc side no matter where you set the external thresh knob...by this I mean say you are in disc mode an you accidently turn the threshold knob back and loose depth in disc mode without knowing...well this was happening since the control was placed on the underside of the housing...people would bump it and perfomance would drop off..so Troy rigged it when in disc mode it would have a preset that overode the external..this was on the 700 and above...but if you paid attention to it and monitored it you could supertune the machine by cranking up that thresh control and add depth to the disc circuit..So for a more aggresive hunt the pre 700's are the way to go...but monitor it..

I talked to Troy last year and he said IF he ever does another machine it will be mixed mode all metal and disc together in unison...He said he has pushed the X5 depth as far as current technology would allow...

THE X5 IS AS DEEP AS ANY MACHINE MADE EVEN TODAY

but its a different animal than a CZ


Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2014 08:42PM by Keith Southern.

Hello, Thank you both for your info. I would like to know what Tom D. thinks about what Keith had to say since he is the engineer of the cz-3d.

Hi,,,okay have a good day.......JJ

In a nutshell X5 is more of a relic unit and goes deep on low conductors such as a nickel, certainly Troy had some good ideas and its a well made unit.
CZ5 on the other hand goes deep on high silver conductors and excels on saltwater shores and certainly well made...plus having a meter of sorts...
Keith gave an excellent post before me and would take all he says to the bank...

I was able to get a X5 from Pasttom a few weeks ago. I had to let it go soon after I received it but as soon as I can, I will get another one. These are the deepest machines that I have ever used.
A lot of fun to use. You can get just as much info from the tones as you can from a display of meter . The CZ3D's are also deep machines but the ones I had seemed to love anything that was round.
Nasa Tom may know more about the inside operation of the CZ units, but Keith knows just as much about the use of the detector. I am just wondering if you have a CZ3D why are you asking about a X5?

Tom in SC

The reason I am asking is because I have been told that the cz-3d is a very deep seeking coin machine. Was told a hot calibrated cz-3d by Tom D. would pickup a dime size coin at 12"+ with a 8" coil in the ground in certain soil conditions. Then someone told me of this shadow x-5 that claims to go even deeper on a dime than the cz-3d. So I thought I would ask this question on this forum to see what everyone thinks. I have yet to try either detector so I personally have no experance with either. Thanks

Keith and Tom Manly,

How would you guys compare the X-5 to the LTD SE in terms of depth?

Thanks

Aaron

Well I had a X-5 for a while they're a good machine, one of the deepest beep and digs out there. But there's no way I would pay what these things are going for used 500-600 with one coil. I'd rather have a 1266x or 1270 which go almost as deep as the X5 for a lot less money. If I was a coin hunter primarily I would choose the CZ3D over the X5.

I have a CZ-3D Tom tuned and had a Troy X-5. I dug a 10'' Indian with the X-5. It is hot and the best balanced detector I have used. It has great modulated audio,But only a single tone. If some how Troy could of gave it a 3-4 tone I.D. only it would have sold like hot cakes. I didn't have as much time on mine as Keith and Tman so they would know more on the X-5. The CZ-3D I have owned one since the first run and will always have one in my arsenal. One of the best old coin machines made some are hotter than others,But Tom D. can straiten the rest out. The one I own now is a First Texas unit that was one of the hot one's But the category's were off so I sent it to Tom and it is as good as the 1021 I bought new so if you get one try and find one he calibrated or send it to him if you feel it is not up to par. I would get a CZ-3D First and later after you get used to that see if you can find a Troy X-5 if you still want one as they make a great light weight change of pace Detector that is weather proof and uses one 9 volt. Thanks now I want another! LOL!

Here ya go Harold!


[www.ebay.com]


[www.ebay.com]


Aaron

I just bought a 1021 series cz-3d that is in meant condition that I am waiting for the weather to break to try out. I was told it had been calibrated by Tom D. at one time. I also bought a 1121 series cz-3d for my girlfriend that was calibrated by Tom D. at 11.6". We are going to try make it out Sunday for our first hunt using these cz's. I bought them because I was told they were very deep coin detectors and am hoping to find some older coins in places I have hunted in the past. That's why I was asking about the x-5. Thanks

Mccrorysjewelry2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just bought a 1021 series cz-3d that is in meant
> condition that I am waiting for the weather to
> break to try out. I was told it had been
> calibrated by Tom D. at one time. I also bought a
> 1121 series cz-3d for my girlfriend that was
> calibrated by Tom D. at 11.6". We are going to try
> make it out Sunday for our first hunt using these
> cz's. I bought them because I was told they were
> very deep coin detectors and am hoping to find
> some older coins in places I have hunted in the
> past. That's why I was asking about the x-5.
> Thanks

You made a very good choice!!

Gosh...... I have plenty of shared data/stories on this forum about first-hand/in-person sharing of data with the Chief Design Engineers of the X-5 ..... whilst in prototype phase..... in the back (Mfr'ing factory section) of Fisher Research Laboritory in Los Banos, CA. . . . . where the X-5's were built.

In a nutshell:

X-5 is not a 'targeted' (specific) "coins" unit. I would never use it for coin hunting in common/general areas. Having to check each/every non-ferrous target by invoking 'zinc' Disc switch and re-sweeping target.......... then invoking 'nickel' Disc switch and re-sweeping target............ would be painfully/inefficiently time-consuming.

X-5 (in Florida inert dirt)...... presented nearly identical depth performance to CZ platform on clad/silver/copper coins. X-5 presented a slight edge in depth on nickels (low conductors)...... as compared to CZ (and Minelab) platforms.

X-5......... as (its intended) relic hunting design intent.... is exceptionally good in open fields whereby iron/nails content is low..... and targets are few/far in-between. No meter (not wanted/needed...... more than you think) and monotone ..... is ideal for relic hunting. Very, very good field relic hunter.

But........... I consider the T2 SE....... and especially the F75 SE as the official 'trump' to the X-5.......... for many legitimate justification/rationale.
CTX-3030 also surpasses the X-5 in a relic hunting capacity....... albeit a higher price tag.

Looks like I've got all my bases cover! ; )

Heres a airtest video I did a few years back Aaron..

As far as depth against a F75 se or T2 se ..Troy said he had pushed the depth as far as modern tech would go..and I believe FT has too in more neutral dirt's..

I believe we need new methods to break into unchartered territory...mabe an all metal that can I.D. without phase shift...

Heres the vid.

its sort of noisy from my cell camera but it gives an idea..

[www.youtube.com]

Alot of times you have to make up your mind what you want..

but again the deepest silvers I have ever dug have been with a shadow X5..But could just be becasuse they were no more than whispers and were well past a foot deep...

But for what its worth a CZ is not very deep in some of my dirt even though its a dual freq detector...Czs seem to work better aorund here in loamy dirt...I know of 2 hunter's that have used them for over 20 years solely and are very good with them,but even they go to the 1266 for relic depth...

For the last 20 years we have ran them against other machines and for raw depth the all metal mode is at times the best...

Actually a Musketeer with 8 inch coil was digging 3 ringers at around 13-14 inchs against a Cz 6 here awhile back and the cz would not report on them no matter what we did...and he had a pretty hot CZ...I have some weird dirt...Moved over to some good dirt and the Musketeer dug some Store tokens out of an artillery camp and the Cz dug 2 more that the Musky heard but called maybe a nail...So when a CZ can see a target it locks on well..I would of eventually dug them anyway as I work a site down i usually eliminate alot pof the iffys eventually...

I use the musky for comparison since its on the 5 khz like one of the freqs the CZ uses..

But a X5 is very deep on high conductors for the freq..and has certian advantages that high freq offer..

Rememebr the x5 is no longer made and not sure if Troy will still fix them...Fisher offered the lifetime warranty but not sure I would want FT to work on it or if they even would...Troy used to say send it to him after the fisher buy out...I dont think the new staff was up on the calibration...the X5 calibration is a doozy I hear...lots of VR's in there...



Keith

I called Troy once and he was very helpful. He talked for a long time answering any questions that I had. Great person and gave me some great tips.
for several years now there has been a rumor that there may be another Unit available. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

Tom in SC

Mccrorysjewelry2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just bought a 1021 series cz-3d that is in meant
> condition that I am waiting for the weather to
> break to try out. I was told it had been
> calibrated by Tom D. at one time. I also bought a
> 1121 series cz-3d for my girlfriend that was
> calibrated by Tom D. at 11.6". We are going to try
> make it out Sunday for our first hunt using these
> cz's. I bought them because I was told they were
> very deep coin detectors and am hoping to find
> some older coins in places I have hunted in the
> past. That's why I was asking about the x-5.
> Thanks

I believe if your running 2 cz's you want to make sure you keep plenty of distance between them or it will affect their depth. Mike

Hello Mike, what kind of distance apart are we talking about on the cz-3d and why? Thanks

Hmmmm....well, from what I've experienced w my buddy when we both have been out w our CZs you don't need to be that close, we couldn't really be within 50ft of one another and you'd get interference. And also as was talked about here a few years ago it was stated that there is also silent interference that can happen as far as, I thought it was around 100ft that can impair performance.

Aaron

That distance is fine when hunting with your wife or your buddy.....too far when hunting with your girlfriend. lol

Jeez Ozzie, finding a girl (let alone wife), who wants to go detecting has gotta be more rare than finding a gold coin!

Mike,

Glad you brought up the 2 CZ 'cross talk' dilemma. It's important for new CZ's users to know they can't be too close to each other when detecting.

Lets put it this way I just won't hunt with another CZ user as they interfere with each other even at great distances and impair each others abilities.
Read several stories relative this and know from personal experience even a football field away I know there is another CZ in area.

Hello, can a cz-3d and a minelab se pro hunt close together? Or even a cz-3d and Garrett 350? Thanks

Yes they will perform fine.

Hello, thanks junior88, I'm wanting to try out my cz-3d and my girl friend wants to try metal detecting for the first time. I never knew that 2 cz-3d couldn't hunt together. I have a se pro and I am a Garrett dealer so I can get any detectors Garrett makes at dealer cost. She wanted to start out with a ace 350. Thanks for the info.

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets put it this way I just won't hunt with
> another CZ user as they interfere with each other
> even at great distances and impair each others
> abilities.
> Read several stories relative this and know from
> personal experience even a football field away I
> know there is another CZ in area.

I was wondering just how you would determine that another CZ is within 100 yards. I know that CZ's can interfere with each other, but 100 yards????

If your hunting alongside a Minelab with noise cancel, have them run the noise cancel with your unit on.. Listen to your detector and you will hear the ML when it hits a certain freq.