All is Lost

Well at least my 2 foot coin cache.

I cant find it with 100% certainty..

Im probabbly hearing it in all metal modes but theres so many little bits of wire and nails in the area...Who Know's...


really an eye opener to say the least..been in the ground a year...Sounded better when first burried...now ????

for those who dont Know I burried a Quart mason jar 2 foot deep from the top of the jar to the surface...its full of all types of pennys zinc and copper....theres no lid on the jar..I wanted the coins to be the signal not the lid....

I have a video of the burial on youtube...

If all caches are around 2 foot deep...we have a real problem...

Keith

LOL

use a GPX 5000 or a 2 box system to find it Keith!

Maybe if you had put a lid on it, like a neckles might pick up one link at a time. Maybe the detector will pick up one coin at a time. Any detector will have a hard time to pick up at 24". Just a though. flintstone

I think you'll find it but with some trouble and more digging than you care to. Maybe use an f75 in static all metal mode....just a thought.

That was the prupose of no lid...

Did not want a false positive..

think of colonial caches civil war caches...etc

there jars were usually wax sealers or even clay pottery from that period...no zinc lids like the later jars had...

Im hoping a halo forms in a few years and it returns....

It sounded decent at first but now its down to like a nail scratch hit...

All an experiment....Yet eye opening...

But I can tell right now if the cache is around any kind of nails it will not be heard in real world hunt's...

maybe isolated but real world sites close to old house places if its burried deep is going to be tough..

Im also think that anyone of them placed into a post hole is going to cause trouble too...think of the hidey hole post hole banks that now have the barb wire lying on top of the rotted away post...even a signal enhancer zinc mason jar lid will not fare well in that scenario if its deep...

Im now more convinced more than ever that theres alot more depositories around the old house sites than can be imagined...

the hit Im now getting on the coin cache is no more than a nail type hit and theres no way to single that out ...

ive seen some real live coin caches recovered in my life but heres the big kicker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!All 3 of them were not found by a detectorist but bulldozer operators....
A picture is starting to be painted......they were all late 1800s caches in old house site's. in well hunted civil war relic sites over the year's by numerous hunters on each site.......

DISTURBING!!

Keith

Hey Ozzie..

I know within a 4 square foot area where its but If a guy just walked in there and was hunting Theres no way he would dig it unless he was chasing deep iron....theres too many nail's lying around and deep chunks of kettle part's actually the big iron sounds better than the jar of money ... my backyard area since its an 1840s house site back there you can imagine the deep hit's...

How many of these deep caches have we walked over??

Theres hope YET..One day we may be able to cherry pick these caches THAT ARE THERE if technolgy allow's...


Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2014 03:08AM by Keith Southern.

Hey Keith, I was thinking the same thing regarding the halo.

At least it wasn't that valuable, think of the education....


Aaron

A thin nylon string would be your salvation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2014 03:20AM by TheOtherLeggoHead.

TheOtherLeggoHead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A thin nylon string would be your salvation.

Don't think that he really cares about recovering the jar. The point is that he cannot detect it with his detectors. I think it is a different type of test garden.
Keith correct me if I'm wrong.
Pac Man

Pacman, I think it's not only that but he's not even sure exactly where it is (especially w all the other junk) and he has a year invested in it being buried...

Aaron

Just a thought here from a rookie but wouldn't the glass mason jar impede any halo formation considerably? What machines did you have on hand for the attempted find, your arsenal of detectors is ever changing.....

Cliff

It'd be cool to test out one of those detectors that shows an image on the screen. I don't know much about them. Not sure how deep they go. If they do work... there is your cache locator. Keith, any connections to experiment with one?

Keith
I would say that the info you are discovering with your buried cache,we all have maybe, walked over one and either never heard it or the machines we are using just gave a nail grunt ect... Interesting.

Indeed one wonders how many have been walked over....personally feel would have to have a two box detector and know where it was to have any chance.
Nice experiment reveals reality at its best....I feel using no top sort of takes something away as imagine most would be buried with a top...in buried caches....

Do you have any PI detectors to test on it? I wonder how they would fare.

The ATX Norwood...

Its hits it but there again it hits everything...

Would be hard to pick it out and especially if you did not Know it was there...

Keith

Dotn wat to dig it up Pacman ...for sure but do want to no undeniably where it is at...

Don't want to waste a year of burial like Aaron says...

Im going to mark it off with a known constant set of Stob's then by tape measure and trianglation...

Im fixing to sod over the yard since I removed 52 trees back there in the last month...Yes Im tired!!!!!Lot of sawing, lot of cutting up and grinding went on...But all pines are now gone and forgotten about...My test coins are gopin to be toast as Im fixing to do some dirt scattering for evening up...but the cache will remain untouched...

Dan to answer your question on the Why no lid? well I wanted it to be as extreme as I could make it...and alot of the early caches will be earleier than mettalic lid's...

remember pottery jars were the most common esepcially out in the wilderness..and even the early glass used what was called a wax sealer for a lid non mettalic...So I think of this as a pre say 1870 cache...

Im now really intrigued by the cache...

Im may plant some more and of different types...

I would urge anyone to make a cache however they may want to set it up and keep up with it...


The machines that would hit it at the begining no longer hit it...I have and have access to many detectors...

FT machines have never hit except in all metal...Till now the 13 ultimate is giving a nail type false deep hit in the spot on the omega and G2

CTX has never hit it..

ATX hits it but would you dig it??? P.I.

TDI hits it but would you dig it?? P.I.

Goldmaxx power hits it as does the DTVG...but ground bal has to be offset and that does cause alot of deep iron to be dug...

Agian how much can you put up with to get it to hit..

Known targets can be found usually because you know how to get your machine to hit them in that spot but go out in the field on a real hunt and try to replicate deep target retrieval in an iron environ on a consistant basis and you will come back discoraged...

These are the problems we are plauged with on a daily hourly basis out int he field..

Deep targets are tough to obtain...

Right now I have a theory that the soil is binding together again after disturbing it for the cache burial last year..weve had a really really wet winter and maybe the porocess is sped up some.Ive alwasy been convinced the first 2 inches of dirt is our worst enemy on proer I.D.. of target's...But that's another whole idea. to talk about ..I leave it alone for now LOL!!!

Moving on..

Youll see people say I can dig 3ringers at over a foot and at times up to mid to upper teens depth's in the right soil...and yes it can be done but it will be in spots away form other target's and alot fo times they will be fired bullet's inbetween the lines of entrenchment..

Try to do that when there's nails at a foot deep also everywhere..

Now try to find a good deep target in a habitation site....first off a silver dollar a foot deep can be masked by a nail an inch deep on top of it...a belt buckle of the C.S. variety worth thousands of dollars a foot deep cna be masked by say a simple bent nail lying on the surface of the ground.......

Now take a cache of coins 18 inches 2 ft etc a hidden cache and it does not really have a chance...

To answer one question that was asked about it not being able to halo in a jar...the jar is open a the top and the bonding should take place eventually...yet a halo will not leech..But how much would it halo into the soil at say 150 years from now if it was in say just a loose pile...will it be in 10ths of inches leech?Ive seen leech on brass in soil but its not like its spread out twice the size fo the object...

but that brings up another question could the Jars/vessels be hampering all the caches just as much that have been in the ground for 150 years...destroying a halo effect??????

Now what I wonder and as alot of us Know is a detector is looking at one coin at a time electrically not the pile as a whole...yet I cant hear a penny at 2 ft so there has to be some sort of conglomaration taking place for the 2 ft cache to report at all even at fresh burial...No halo is formed yet...


The more qestions that arise form the simple cache the more I can realize the monumental task we have at hand to retrieve a deep cache...

Think of the huge Roman caches that come out of Great Britian,..they start out wiht a few scattered coins towards the surface thenexcavation has to take palce to get to the load...

think of the untold fortunes lost for thousands of years out fo reach under their feet ...under our Feet!

Keith

How about a Nautilus IIba with the big satelite dish 15'' coil?

Not much on Nautilus anymore Harold...cant get them fixed..

I love the naughtys but cant get them fixed..last one I had I had to sell as part's..I could not get it fixed...

Not sure whats going on at Nautilus..

Keith

Someone dug it up, check the wife.

Keith, We use a 5' 'T' handle probe to check footings and such. The 'T' part slides a few inches for a light hammer affect. The shaft is aluminum with some flex and it can be lightly or aggressively hammered into the ground. If your soil isn't too hard, it may do the trick.

Excellent Idea Ozzie...

thank you..

Slipped my mind LOL!!

I have my 4.5 ft Bottle probe I can run down there!!!!!!!

Excellent thought process you have..

Im more of the kind of person who cant see the forrest for the trees I guess...


Keith

Keith, rumor has it all you need is a split green tree branch held gingerly between your fingers - you'll find the cache up to 5 miles away.

OK, more seriously ... just remove the top 1-2' of soil in the suspect area. You'd get a signal and can mark the spot (without completely digging it up)


If you are hoping to get a detector that can find it in situ and can't do it today, just leave it in the ground for posteriety sake. It can be your time capsule.

Some sunny day, a century from now, someone will locate it using the 2112AD year's version of the F75 (... by then it's name will be more like the "Zelta 3000 with Gamma Boost").

Those penny's will be worthless, of course, but the mason jar may be useful.

Johnnyanglo

I can only imagine the disappointment on the face of the guy who finds Keith zinc cash.....

Aaron

If a small piece of a nail can hide/mask a cache of coins............... imagine how many individual/single coins are masked by a piece of a nail. You wonder why 95% of the coins that are lost are either: too deep or masked.

And ....... the older the coin drop......... the more time that has lapsed for additional items/trash to have been dropped in close proximity (or directly on top) of the coin......... ultimately masking the older/deeper/desired coin.

Its depressing to think about....

Yes, "more powerful detectors with smaller coils".

Aaron

I wonder if the coins were all copper if the results would be different ,zink falls apart fast under certain conditions.

Its all kinds of Pennys Hobo...copper and zinc mix ..probably more copper than zinc.....no telling how many is in that quart jar...

Keith

Maybe since the jar is open on top, enough dirt and water sifted in to insolate the coins from each other, just guessing. It doesn't make cents ( pun intended) to be less detectable in a year.

If you can't detect one of the coins by itself at 2 feet, you can't detect a jar of them.

That cache is gone until enough moisture fills the jar to start bonding the coins together into a single large conductive mass. Who knows how long that will take.

HH
Mike