TO: Dave Johnson, John Gardiner, Jorg, Carl

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's go one step further:
>
> In July/Aug of 2009...... I was testing one of the
> proto F75 LTD's. This particular unit was capable
> of ascertaining (with constant repeatability/relia
> bility) a clad dime to 12.0" in 'bp' mode..... in
> Florida inert dirt...... with fairly low atmospher
> ic EMI conditions. Realizing this unit is probably
> the 'highest gain' unit on the open/available mark
> et.... even today......... and with a very tight e
> lliptical DD electromagnetic footprint coil (of wh
> ich is a EMI magnet)............... made me 'rethi
> nk' an engineering approach. If this 11" x 7" elli
> ptical DD coil........ was made into a 11" x 7" no
> n-DD coil....... EMI would be heavily mitigated an
> d greater depth could possibly be ascertained. ALS
> O....... if the 13-Khz operating freq could be low
> ered to 7-Khz............. the unit would gain mor
> e freq-resonance-reactivity to higher conductors..
> ....... which is also to say......... it would be
> desensitized to tiny birdshot BB-sized targets....
> ... including iron.
>
> Where am I going with all of this? The single Freq
> F75LTD/SE is one of the top contenders as a base-p
> latform for creating/launching a unit with about 2
> " greater depth on a dime. Any one,,,,,, a combina
> tion of....... or ALL of the following:
> Opening up the tight EM footprint, lowering the op
> erating freq, incorporating XP Deus/GMP mineraliza
> tion handling approach, and multi-freq............
> are just a few of the ways to 'mission accomplish'
> .
I have been chasing after different detectors for quite a while, trying to find the detector that Tom is requesting in his opening post. After reading all of Tom's post in this tread, and two + years later, after trying many detectors, I agree with Tom's assessment. The CZ3D and Fisher F75 are the closest VLF that can discriminate fe / non-fe and to achieving + 2 inches depth. My Tom tuned CZ3D is still my deepest detector that I've owned. I just can't tell a rusty nail from silver. My F75 is next but it detects too much small junk at 2-5 inches that sounds like silver at 9 inches. My CTX3030 is great in these fairly clean sites down to no more than 7 inches. I've hunted out all my good sites and don't like to knock on doors. Dreaming and waiting....

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> Ziggy....... you are well-experienced/seasoned.

Thank you Tom, I'm only 99% off your level of expertise... Getting there slowly though :0)

Funny enough I did a video out in the field last week answering two questions I get asked a lot, what machine should I buy and what's the current state of detectors.. I will publish this video in due course.

We all have our own opinion and we all have different needs from a machine but when a certain machine comes along... Believe me you will all want it!...but for now the most enjoyable times in the field for me are when I'm using simple single or two tone machines with the odd exception of some machines with quirky audio that just amuses me now and again.

Just a few lines on how I see detectors on the market at the moment.

As detectors go at this point in time there are many good detectors on the market... Now I say good because this is what we know right now (Good Machines)
But the gap between a cutting edge machine say the XP Deus and a basic machine like Golden Mask 1+ is minimal when you look at the grand scale of things.
One gives you all the fandangle settings under the sun and the other just gives you simple two tone audio but when it comes down to the bread and butter of things they really ain't miles apart in performance.
One is simple and effective and the other is complicated and effective.

I just feel the whole machine industry needs a shake up on the technology front right now... Everything is looking and doing the same thing what is getting boring and frustrating at the same time.

Yes... Companies are giving you slight advantages over the competition and these gains could be the difference in seeing hundreds of years back in history but I feel it's not enough now.... I personally don't want to see same variations of the same machines just switched around with altered audio anymore.
I want something new something special to come along, it has got to the point that I'm going to hang up my gloves soon as a multi machine tester and put all my efforts and time into one company to push them to make a change and help the best I can to do this.

People moan that certain companies haven't produced new machines recently.
I tell you what if I was a company I wouldn't just bring out new models with a odd program here or new settings there just to please the masses... It costs a lot and a can produce a lot of hassle doing so just to please people and keep your name in the game.
The competition is so so tight right now it's terrible when making a choice on a machine and giving advice on the higher end machines is harder than ever.

My hat comes off to Rutus at this point in time, they havent produced a machine in a good while and now they have just released the Alter 71.
Ground breaking technology... (No) but what they haven't done is released many machines with a small gains here or there just because they can since the last model.

They have sat back and watched and come up with more or less a complete new machine in their range I feel that truly gives the user a different experience over the last model they produced a good while back.

Complete alterability with the kHz up and down the scale and options you see on the high end models but for way less money, but they have done all this and placed it into a simple usable package what works.
I admire them for doing so.

Another one is Deeptech, they have some stunningly simple great all round performing machines on the market.... but they have stopped for now producing similar machines while possibly working on something very special I feel, pointless for any company going on releasing products that are more or less the same.

Detecting shouldn't be complicated but there exceptions to the rule and this mainly depends on what environment you are searching, but with the right technology that may or may not be here yet the most technically advanced simplest machine will conquer all when released... Wait and watch!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 11:19PM by Ziggy.

Tom I recall a few years ago you offered for sale a specially tuned/re-designed Fisher CZ detector that was retuned/redsigned for ultimate depth. IIRC you were indicating it could detect coins far past the 12" reference point that we try to ascertain on CZ3D and CZ70 platforms with your fine tuning capabilities.

My point being that if the CZ can be hacked to surpass the 12" reference point, that seems to be the platform with the most promise of obtaining your goal?

It's been my understanding that FT is going to be releasing this year a new CZ like platform, one that I assume will utilize DD and concentric coils, and hopefully is more depth capable then previous generations of the CZ platform.

-Brian

Ziggy Wrote:
> ... but when a certain machine comes along...
> Believe me you will all want it!.

Please do tell!!

>
> People moan that certain companies haven't produce
> d new machines recently.
> I tell you what if I was a company I wouldn't just
> bring out new models with a odd program here or ne
> w settings there just to please the masses... It c
> osts a lot and a can produce a lot of hassle doing
> so just to please people and keep your name in the
> game.

I think this definitely can be said about FT. A slew of "new" machines over the past 5 years, but no single one that in itself is ground breaking. I've been saying all along though, that what we're seeing is them implementing various new features into this plethora of machines, and I believe they're using them not only to keep their name relevant, but also as test mules to introduce these new features, as well as field test and fine tune them with the end goal of combining them into a high-end, ground breaking flagship machine. I understand that this unicorn of a machine is supposed to be released this year.

I'm a relic hunter first old coins second. The best relic machine I've ever used is a Teknetics G2. I broke out my cz 3d the other day for a while. It got put back into the truck. Same for the T2 SE I have. Dust collector. I have a White's TDI it rides along with me. I get it out occasionally. It doesn't last long either before it gets the truck.

There's major attributes to higher frequency units in regards to:
1) Better iron ID
2) Better iron Discrimination
3) Better handling in carpets of nails (due to items 1&2 above).... seeking to find non-ferrous targets.
4) Less audibly fatiguing in carpets of nails.
5) Better see-thru abilities in regards to iron.

You guys blow my mind, apparently everybody on here but me has a degree in electronics..
But my 2 cents, couldn't a processor be incorporated to calibrate a coil to a machine?

------------"Cz's still bad to the bone".------------
Living on a big ass Astroid.
The woman that got my rib,I want it back.

Quote:"couldn't a processor be incorporated to calibrate a coil to a machine?"
Some machines effectively do this. The XP GoldMaxxPower likely does something like this during its 10 second turn-on, which is why you have to hold it clear of everything during that period. And the Deus will be similar, it's hard making a coil that's perfect at 4 different frequencies, but if your microprocessor brain can compensate for (some of) it's flaws, it's easier.

Pimento Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:"couldn't a processor be incorpo
> rated to calibrate a coil to a machine?"
> Some machines effectively do this. The XP GoldMaxx
> Power likely does something like this during its 1
> 0 second turn-on, which is why you have to hold it
> clear of everything during that period. And the De
> us will be similar, it's hard making a coil that's
> perfect at 4 different frequencies, but if your mi
> croprocessor brain can compensate for (some of) it
> 's flaws, it's easier.

I am not sure this is actually correct. If the Deus was calibrating to the coil, why is then that if have 2 different machines with the same size coils, they will end up on the same frequencies? As far as I know the only machines that do calibrate to each coil are AKA's.

Some misunderstanding, here, I think.
When referring to the Deus, I mean the electronics inside the coil calibrates to the coil-windings inside the coil.
It's all speculation, really, seeing as no-one's seriously hacked the Deus to work out what it does /doesn't do.

IMHO, Deus coil is calibrated initially and within themselves.
Coil + Unit + Headset is the similarity of the cluster in the computer world.
That is, they act as modules that can be different in functionality but also overlap each other by some functions.
Unit 3.2 + Headset 2.0

Or,,maybe the tense being used here is incorrect.

Since the coil is stand alone with associated electronics fitted/attached,,,,the coil once released from factory,,,maybe windings and electronics are matched.

But yes,,I've noticed the manufacturer's precautions as far as turning on Deus with coil near metal.

Is this related??? To subject at hand????

Don't know.

Temperature affects on coils,,,and possible methods to compensate--- always interest me.