Looks like Nokta /Makro has answered Our every wish WOW

There is a big downside to all of this though.

On one hand, it is good a company is listening to what consumers want. But on the other hand, it's bad. If the updates come too frequent, then the most desired product will only be the latest and greatest...meaning that if you buy one and 3 months later they take and overhaul it; then you are stuck with the unit you bought. Because nobody is going to really be interested in the "old" one and you will practically have to give it away if you decide to sell it. This has sort of happened with the Blisstool machines. It seems like every year, they are coming out with a new version that is more stable and deeper than the previous model. When they first started to be bought here in the US, it was their version 3. They sold for around $1,100 with one coil and $1,500 with both. That hasn't been but a couple yrs ago, and they are on version 6 now....and dealers can't even get their money back out of the V3s now. I've seen them trying to sell them for $400 with both coils and can't. We don't want metal detectors to get to the same place that cell phone companies are right now with coming out with very small changes every year and calling it a new model. I say...let them be innovative and ground breaking, but don't get so rushed to where they feel the "have to" of putting a new flagship unit on the market every year.

Because the truth is...we as consumers can't make our mind up as to what we do really want. The flesh is always wanting and never satisfied. The phone thing is a great example. Way back when, they were big and bulky, and everybody wanted something smaller. So along came the small clam shell phones. Everybody was happy for a short period of time. Then people started wanting bigger keypads to text on and bigger screens to see videos and pics on...and then it got to basically tablet size phones. But now that a lot of people have them now, people are starting to say...hey these are getting to be too big for the pocket....lets make them smaller. And thus the dog chases its tail to end up right back where it started.

You are right on target Daniel. This is where a detector with external update capability shines. Just imagine i.e. take a F75 and have external update capability. Fisher could have different software programs to maybe make the detector perform better in different detecting environments -bad soil, high EMI, etc. They could even have programs that are coil specific to squeeze every bit of performance. And just think folks I think would pay a nominal fee for such updates. The sky really is the limit. The detector companies just need to think. White's blew their big chance with V3/V3i. And the glitch on the original V3 should have turned the light bulb on for them so to speak.

I was leaning more along the lines of constant ergonomic changes; exterior changes, and not internal software changes or updates. I used to be one of those guys that had to be on the cutting edge of everything in my hobbies. Now days, the older I get, I find I'm not as fast to jump onto the newest/latest greatest stuff like some people are. It took me up until this year to get a "smart" phone and honestly, I've thought of going and "downgrading" the blasted thing.

The thing is...we can want want want all the care to want in metal detectors. But no matter how good a metal detector is...it is not going to make coins/relics/jewelry/gold appear where the stuff ain't at to begin with. It still takes LOCATION to find the stuff. It takes research to do that. And whatever you are looking for has to be there in order to find it. I enjoy fishing quite a bit...but I don't have to have a $70,000 bass boat with $3,000 electronics and thousands of dollars in lures and rods/reels in order to catch fish. And even just having that stuff, doesn't mean you go load the boat with fish. I can go sit on a creek bank with a cheap rod reel or even a cane pole and some earthworms, and catch fish. Just the same as somebody can take a cheap detector and go find something worth thousands of dollars.

That is the beauty of the marketplace. We are already there Daniel. Tell me what REAL difference there has been in the MXT variants. Is the new MXT All Pro "New"?

You want USB upgrades, get a DEUS. Others will no doubt be offering similar capability soon.

We can get off the Merry go round any time we choose. You can just keep using the old iPhone. I could have just stuck with my CZ-5 and honestly be no father behind. In fact, by sticking with that CZ-5 I would probably be a better detectorist becasue I would know that machine far better than I know the ones I have now.

The problem is I got the DEUS and it is already gone. Did not float my boat and the fact I could upgrade the software made no difference to me.

This is a sickness of sorts. Heck, I will buy a detector, not like it, sell it, then buy it again two years later and like it! Maybe I will own a DEUS again, it would not surprise me at all. I am not sure I am gone quite so far as our dear Kevin, but I am in the ballpark.

Normies, as we afflicted call them, but a metal detector and then they have a metal detector and they do not need a metal detector any more. Those of us with this affliction, however, will be going through dozens of detectors in the endless quest for perfection that does not exist.

I look at my pile of detectors though and I see maybe $15,000. Then I look at my friends RV, ATV, and REALLY BIG TRUCK. I have none of that, drive a used Toyota.he has a quarter mill wrapped up in toys. Me,$15,000. My consumer addition is very mild by comparison whereas his could very well bankrupt him and his facility.

So I am proud of my sickness and wear it like a badge. Make me more detectors! Build them, I will come, like a moth to the flame!

Even the post proves I'm nuts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2014 03:40PM by Steve Herschbach.

Yes I have noticed that collecting/testing metal detectors themselves are the real hobby that people have. The air tests and masking tests are fun to do when its raining outside or something like that...but where the rubber meets the road, I'd rather be out finding stuff.

Steve...

Great post and it seems you are happy with your affliction, with me.... it would not go over well with my wife. There is a real need for people like yourself and few others that get to test out the latest and greatest metal detectors. Otherwise you would have to depend on the treasure magazine field reports. The computer age and internet have provided instant worldwide news, which is a good thing in some ways,but bad in other ways. I think I was much more inclined to be pleased with my consumer products before the personal computers came along.

I think if fisher had a USB on their machine they would find a way to screw that up, they really are Some of the new 75 work and are killer and a lot don't...to me that is not what I'm looking for at this starge of the game...

I think if you have a detector that has great features that you understand, it has real good depth and you understand how the programing works, you can get a new coil that is a different size from time to time and you can upgrade the software and understand the sounds then sometimes those are the machines in the right hands that can't be beat. I know one guy with an older CZ that can tell me a dime from a screw top will dig more silver in a trash loaded park then I could with the best machine out there.

I have a friend with a CZ3 that can out relic hunt me on a good day..Yeah he digs just about everthing but he finds the stuff I passed on...not so much now that I have the deus. I think that the new Razor will be a very interesting machine it is designed more like what we are use to. But we will have to see what it can do better from their other line of detectors. It will be great reading to see when it comes out what Keith thinks Tom on the other hand seems to not be testing a lot of the machines out there. And yes we want a lot put into one machine and one that we can upgrade. I don't like seeing a new machine come out every year when they could have added the featurs to the machine we already own.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes I have noticed that collecting/testing metal
> detectors themselves are the real hobby that
> people have. The air tests and masking tests are
> fun to do when its raining outside or something
> like that...but where the rubber meets the road,
> I'd rather be out finding stuff.


You hit the nail on the head Daniel. A brief winter here and I am in downtime mode. Selling a bunch of detectors - have to clear out the deadwood to make room for more. Honestly though for me detecting is job one and I am lucky enough now to be able to devote a lot of time to it. I am going to try and set a record in 2015 for hours spent. I am guessing I spent around 500 hours swinging a coil this year. New Year's resolution - start a log book in 2015.

Anyway, I am in whirlwind play with detector mode right now but come February it will boil down to just grabbing a PI and putting in the hours, with a side trip into VLF now and then.

Hombre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve...
>
> Great post and it seems you are happy with your
> affliction, with me.... it would not go over well
> with my wife. There is a real need for people like
> yourself and few others that get to test out the
> latest and greatest metal detectors. Otherwise you
> would have to depend on the treasure magazine
> field reports. The computer age and internet have
> provided instant worldwide news, which is a good
> thing in some ways,but bad in other ways. I think
> I was much more inclined to be pleased with my
> consumer products before the personal computers
> came along.

I am addicted to small stuff....ultralight fishing rods, reels, lures...etc. Same goes for detectors, one reason I like Tesoros, they almost fit into a pocket.
At my age my joints say the lighter and smaller the better. Being a collector of sorts, doesn't help, you always want to add. Whether you need it or not...how can
you resist when the price is right. Not a big collector of much anymore but, do seem to have a few extra detectors now and then. Try to keep the number down to a few
chosen ones and any others are for trying, reselling or trading. The racer looked sort of cute, cool, not that I really need it. Wouldn't mind trying one if within my budget,
might have to wait until a used one comes up. Think my excuse for trying a new detector is finding the ultimate ID LED screen detector to find Canadian clad coins with some better accuracy.


Have to say Hombre is right........if you do not read the forums for a month, you wouldn't know what new fangled stuff is coming out, your saliva wouldn't be flowing to throw some cash.
You would probably be content if your current machine if it meets your needs and you learn how to use it. Flipping the computer switch on to get onto the internet is like opening your wallet.
Good thing they don't have a Treasure Hunters Shopping Channel on TV.

DeepTech Vista X with 3 search coils.
Works for me

A detector company like Nokta is something we have never seen before. Moving fast with good products and getting established all over the world.

I just bought a used Fors Core Package on another Forum. It arrived today. Very impressive kit. But I knew they were replacing the switches before I bought. No big deal I thought to myself. I did not know about the Racer. So it looks like I invested in yesterdays model. Just what you are talking about.

I'll use it and try to make some good finds with it. There are many guys out there wishing they had one. So I try to keep that thought in mind.

But hopping on the bandwagon has dealt me a blow. I'll let the wagons pass on by for quite a while.

I do look forward to a small Deus coil though.

Nothing to regret goodmore. You got it used for a decent price and can sell it for near same I am sure. You may not want to after you use it - great detectors. The fact the Racer does not use same coils tells me they are not the same machine, and there may very well be trade offs in performance. When is there not?

I see the Makro homepage have changed a lot the last couple of years, where did the Makro sponsored offshore sailboat go.

I also see both companies ( now one ) dont sell long range locators anymore.

I am allways suspicious when detector manufacturers advertise LRL but I will also be the first to congratulate them when they stop advertising them.

The world is moving foreward and i wish Nokta all the best,

i ALWAYS encourage innovative technological advancement....... even in the smallest/minute' incremental baby-step form. NEVER stifle human-advancement/growth. Incorporate it....... release it for product roll-out. If technology is moving at lightning-speed.......... why limit it..... and stiffle human-advancement/growth. This is akin to limiting/restricting education. Imagine if we would have restricted our 'communications' growth....... and would have kept the cord-telephone. No cordless phone............ and certainly no cell-phones. No cell-phone towers. No Satellites. Only intercontinental oceanic phone cables connecting countries around the world. aka = mega-stunted-growth. We could also talk about computers, internet, www, blogs, etc........... and restricting THIS type of growth.
If a company progresses........... especially in baby-steps (minute' advancements)....... incorporate it instantly. After a few minute' Rev's/up-grades to a existing platform...... yes, sure, , , , the company could offer to bring mildly older generation units up to par....... via USB or send-it-in ...... for a mild-fee...... or no fee at all....... depending upon the Engineering IP expended and/or software/hardware costs for the upgrade. This is to include 'old dealer stock'.
IF the up-grades are fairly substantial........... release the unit as a new-name unit. ((( Not just simply a new Version/Revision. )))

For a company to 'jump' to every single request........ is not prudent.... nor cost-effective; however, if enough folks make the same request........ and it is proven to be a 'value-added' quantifiable request.............. by all means.............. advance humankind. Never stifle!!!

If a company wants to "connect" with the end-users (((that would be us)))........ this is a priceless/invaluable asset in marketing savvy/opportunity/ 'awareness'. . . . . for/towards pinnacle corporate rapidity/advancement. "THE" epiphenomenally apotheosis' for corporate 'launch'.

I believe that XP with the Deus has started a new wave of product roll out. I see in the near future a BARE Bones machine being sold at a very good price. But it will be a dumb machine. The cost will then be in the programming.
I do not think that upgrades via the internet will be the way to go. It will require a device such as a smart card. This would cost the company very little, be easy to produce and allow the users to purchase the operating system that
need the most. With the right hardware they could get many different detectors , through different programming cards, over a long period of time. I would most likely purchase several different programs.
Being on a card , it would be very hard to copy or share with your friends. Once inserted t would marry the card to your machine. The first company to develop this will be the leader for some time for sure.
It is all about profit... This would only make it increase.

Tom in SC

I would hope a company can see the future and try and achive it today. Come out with something that does take a step forward and that step is enough for us to go back to the dirt and see what we can unmask.

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

A very good possibility tmanly. Would cut overall production cost. Provide a tendency for a person to stay in/on a certain platform. Would increase brand loyalty. As long as the ergonomics of the base unit are "near perfect".

I feel for aftermarket coil manufacturers. I can see them in big trouble in short order. The CTX wouldn't designed the way it was by accident. Minelab has made loads of cash on their coils for it.

I wonder what would happen if say XP got hacked on one of these new releases??

Smart card would be a lot safer.

The wheels are spinning at First Texas, White's, Garrett etc. I wonder how many new plans have already been scrapped by them since the intro of Deus.

Another possibility would be to have a detector engineered with wires where the detectors brain could be disconnected/removed (quick detach) and a new/upgraded one installed by the user. This would allow a person to upgrade at lower cost. The ergonomics of the users detector would remain the same as well as the controls. No 2 way shipping involved.
Like I said earlier, the sky is the limit. And this gent Alain and associates with XP just may trigger several new cost effective ways to cater to the detecting public. I wish he would post a little on some of the forums.

tnsharpshooter...didnt George Payne already do something like that...modules you could plug in to change the detector.

So is it safe to say the Nokta has supplanted the Deus as the newest forum darling?

I dunno. But it seems most big dog detector manufacturers face a doubled edged sword. On one side is performance coupled with upgradeable software, the other side is ergonomics. I know the 65 plus crowd are enjoying the Deus.
Heck I'm 52 and enjoying it.
Coil sweep height/speed are critical to find the goods that are both deep and partially masked. Boat anchor weight detectors make this difficult to do; especially for hours. I'm pretty strong and can shoot a 62 pound bow for hours and still hit what I'm shooting at. But when I pick up a V3i or CTX things start getting squirrelly pretty fast. I think most folks coil management when detecting starts going downhill faster than they realize. This could be one thing that causes one to revisit a site and make a few finds using the same detector. Concentration also starts to fade with time when detecting.

The Fed EXs and UPSs of the world and internet have made made the world much smaller from a marketing standpoint. Who knows in 10 years time there may not even be a high class detector made inside the USA. Remember it's all about the dough. If a company can in fact get quality labor, parts, engineering from a cheaper source and use it and be able to control costs to the customer they will. You know I've heard many a folks jump on the White's bandwagon (I own a V3i) and brag about it being made in the US of A. Well I took a look at my unit's battery. You know what it says?? It says the label was printed in the US. No mention of where the battery is manufactured. And what about the components inside?? I have a hunch. I'm not picking on White's mind you, just an example.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2014 02:18AM by tnsharpshooter.

It wasn't that long ago when those Deeptech Vista detectors had everybody's attention and love interest here. It seemed every other thread was about them. Now you hardly ever see them mentioned.

Lets wait and see what it can and can't do. Is it a step forward? If you really understand say the deus then I can say that it is a step forward with new updates it may go even further and allow us to unmask even better...time will tell...

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Do you like the Deus Lowboy?

It's performance and customer service that sets a company apart. It wouldn't matter if it was a pine limb that unlocked the hidden stuff in the earth we all crave. If it worked and got you what you wanted and the company backed you and their product up 101% I'd have a pine limb, you would too. As these machines slowly make their way into our market the light will come on I'm sure. However inevitably they are not going to be some peoples cup of tea. I have a feeling the detector world is gonna be turned on it's head very soon. I know my head was turned after I got the CoRe. Just might let the Deus go before the bottom falls out on used ones.

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you like the Deus Lowboy?


LoL

Why you messin with Low -- Ray!?

I like the Deus very much. I hunt coins on private property. I never park or school hunt. I had the E Trac and CTX. I like the Deus better than both of them. Weight and performance both come into that decision. I honestly feel that I can walk up to any property worth detecting and be successful with the Deus. I am now the owner of the Fors Core. I played with it and the small coil today in the yard. Trying to remember target ID numbers and stuff like that. It seems very powerful and easy to overload. Family Holiday stuff kept me from an actual hunt. But I'll eventually take it to a place I pounded with two other Deus's to see if it can pull anything out worth while. But any Highlander fan knows "There can be only one". And I would be talking about my go to detector.

MichiganRelicHunter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> deathray Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you like the Deus Lowboy?
>
>
> LoL
>
> Why you messin with Low -- Ray!?

Aaahhh...Lowrenzo knows Im just playing!

True words Tom...

"For a company to 'jump' to every single request........ is not prudent.... nor cost-effective; however, if enough folks make the same request........ and it is proven to be a 'value-added' quantifiable request.............. by all means.............. advance humankind. Never stifle!!!

If a company wants to "connect" with the end-users (((that would be us)))........ this is a priceless/invaluable asset in marketing savvy/opportunity/ 'awareness'. . . . . for/towards pinnacle corporate rapidity/advancement. "THE" epiphenomenally apotheosis' for corporate 'launch'. "

Give us what we want..

not what you want to give us..


I know everyone has different needs in a machine...I for one just want unmasking and I want depth..but I dont have to ahve one machine to both..it would be nice if there was such ...

theres alot of great do it all machines...but theres only a few great machines for specific sites..

My number one aim is to unlock iron sites....Depth is my number 2 aim..

Will the racer do this?? We will know soon hopefully..

But I have a feeling for the first time we the user can help the developer get what we want...

Im glad a company sees the advantage of communication..


Keith

i am a bit confused about claims the LCD is black and white when the photos of the control box show it in color with blue numbers for ID and a bar at the top showing multi colors according to the targets metals ,so whats going on ?? this is misleading

The rainbow at the top is not part of the LCD or LED Its a reference decal above the screen..A bar graph will light under it to show the range...

the blue maybe is just a Faux color showing up..Im sure its probably dark grey.. the whole faceplate pic is simulated it appears...They say the housing is darker red than the Pic too..

on the CoRe it also has a rainbow decal above the LCD to show target I.D.





We can see a few things from the menu and screen shot.......Most all the settings seem to mirror the CoRe...except they are calling the Racer disc 'I.D. filter' and the CoRe is called 'I.D. mask..

one thing I see is the color shows ferrous non ferrous to be at the 40 break....So this leads me to believe it has a factory tone break...Good or bad?...well up untill the last few months I would of said Bad ...but now I seem to think that the way units are now processing that its not as critcial as it is on a analog type unit....the CoRe unmask very very well on a tone break 40 better than a T2 with tone break 40 also..the CoRe does use and hopefully the Racer will use the Blended type tone reports and in two tone mode esspecially less Filtering of disc circuit to achieve great unmasking....

Just speculation on my part of if the tone break is variable or not...

Keith



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 10:44PM by Keith Southern.

Like Keith said it is just a reference decal above the display - hardly misleading since nobody has claimed it has a color display and the company rep said it was not color. The bluish color does not look much different than my backlit F75 display.

More reference decals: