You guys with the new Racers are being awful quiet

Amen Steve!

"You guys honestly just do not get it. Here everyone is, begging for information on one hand, then slapping the people who are expected to provide the information with the other hand. The whole reason people like me are given machines is so we can help answer your questions. I am not trying to sell you the detector and could care less in fact if you ever buy one. This holier than thou attitude that Michael cops. Really, Michael, you think you can be 100% honest? Well they why do you assume I or anyone else cannot be?"

don't let it get under your skin Steve....there are outliers (in both directions) anywhere you look....I'd wager the vast majority are very appreciative of all that you do, and many, I'm sure don't post...
you've put your cards on the table very clearly many times (must get old) and if some are still doubters then so be it....your honesty/passion stand out....exceptional folks in many endeavours have always taken/lived with flak and thrive regardless....looking forward to your review/analysis...

Steve is now my favorite poster here

Go get 'em

Steve your input is valuable and desired and sometimes the old"don't kill the messenger" is forgotten. Hopefully you will continue to supply info for the 99% who want it--whether we agree or not. Thanks again for your efforts.

jimmyjiver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,,,,On Lowboy's behalf I don't think Lowboy
> deserves to be put down or ridiculed for voicing
> his opinion or thoughts.... Especially when no one
> knows what he meant by his statement.....How would
> you feel if every time you replied to a post
> people started putting you down....

If some of the more level headed forum members reacted "every time" I posted by jumping on me, I'd seriously look at what I must have done to draw such criticism. But that's just me.
Some folks on here, as elsewhere, like to rant and offend but don't want to receive what they like giving out. It's not always about free speech. Sometimes it's about mutual respect.

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

Hi ncwayne,,,,here we go again, I had to respectfully reply..LoL... Don't you think a lot of this childish behavior could be avoided by simply asking him or her what they meant by what they said? ....Further more he did not direct his comment to anyone specific that I was aware of....If people would simply put a persons name to their reply that would help out matters too.....I seen no disrespect in his comment and I covered the answer pretty good in my past reply......With mutual respect.... JJ


PS: mutual respect is when two people may not agree on everything but they don't get upset over little things but are willing to work things out because they care for the other.

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve is now my favorite poster here
>
> Go get 'em

He shoot's from the hip, tells it like it is and goes BOOM once in a while :-)
Quite a character!

Lowboy doesn't want to read info from testers,... LOL
Give the man a Piece of Candy,... he just made the january edition of "This months most hilarious Quote!!"

HH
Johnb

Hi JJ, you crack me up. lol
Maybe what we need here is an e-racer! lol lol lol
Just funnin' ya!

BTW, anybody who keeps it as real as Steve H does here in his posts, couldn't lie or withhold the hole truth (pun intended) if he wanted to.

(signed) the other, other wayne

Pleasant Garden, NC
AT Max, Nokta Impact, MX Sport, Nokta FORS Relic, GPX 4800, Infinium, Racer, Deus, F75SE, Nautilus DMC II (order of acquisition, last to first)

Does an archeologist argue with a plow? A bureaucrat with a bulldozer?

canslawhero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You guys honestly just do not get it. Here
> everyone is, begging for information on one hand,
> then slapping the people who are expected to
> provide the information with the other hand. The
> whole reason people like me are given machines is
> so we can help answer your questions. I am not
> trying to sell you the detector and could care
> less in fact if you ever buy one. This holier than
> thou attitude that Michael cops. Really, Michael,
> you think you can be 100% honest? Well they why do
> you assume I or anyone else cannot be?"
>
> don't let it get under your skin Steve....there
> are outliers (in both directions) anywhere you
> look....I'd wager the vast majority are very
> appreciative of all that you do, and many, I'm
> sure don't post...
> you've put your cards on the table very clearly
> many times (must get old) and if some are still
> doubters then so be it....your honesty/passion
> stand out....exceptional folks in many endeavours
> have always taken/lived with flak and thrive
> regardless....looking forward to your
> review/analysis...

Seems as if we hit a sore spot! If you are offended I am sorry but it may also mean you feel like you cannot personally. So calm the jets my friend and if you are a tester and just do that; test the unit and report back what you find. I don't recall anyone stating a name or calling anyone out as being dishonest here. It is just a human nature that if one feels like they have a ride of good tidings that a manufacturer may get a bit miffed if their product may not hold all the water they claim. In turn the tester may know this and hesitant to point out all the bad. It is called omissions......and yes I deal with it all the time in my profession. In turn omissions get my opposition anywhere from 10-life in federal prison. So no one called you out.........so you may want to discharge your holier than all attitude and not take offense to comments. I have watched the banter here of a few and I have to say, some of you are rather pompous in attitude. Not impressed one bit myself. So go shake another tree and try to rile the monkeys there too.......you have done nothing to impress me.

If a person likes this forum enough to join you would think they could take it a bit easy the first few weeks and try to earn other members respect before running off at the mouth so to speak . I for one will digest all the info I can get on a new machine and would never shoot the messenger. Not every new machine will suit every detectorist to begin with . If I have doubts about reports on a machine I will do one of two things. Either buy one just to prove to myself or not buy and wait for more info .

Questioning another members honesty on a public forum should be bad form in anyone's book I would think . It only stirs up a lot of hard feelings and proves nothing . PM a person first if you suspect ulterior motives rather than call them out or make veiled innuendos is a better way I do believe .

How many remember when Mr. Tom reported on the AT Pro issues. Many were ready to tar and feather him but after the dust settled we all learned he was correct. I was one who wondered what was up with the AT so I bought two of them used at a good price and they both were as Tom stated . Sent them in to Garrett and they fixed them and both came back with new coils . Who would have thunk it lol .

Michael Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am more amazed by those who get a unit and write
> a detailed review in a month. Okay to write what
> you are experiencing but to review and say put
> your name on it as gospel is a bit dubious to me.
> Hard to say you have really put a unit through the
> wringer in a month. Because to me there is more
> than using the unit and in a month putting maybe
> 100 hours on a unit......there is longevity to
> evaluate QC and electrical issues that arise from
> time not function that needs to be factored in
> too.

I agree with this. Something I found interesting when I got my F75-2 back in early December was the first place I took it to it fell on it's face with an EMI issue. I'm thinking WTH, isnt' that what they were supposed to have fixed with DST?
The next place I took it to, it did fine, and then yet another spot on this same trip it struggled with heavy mineralization. This was about four days (and a few nights) of detecting, and a large variety of sites. To be honest, I didn't really get a good feel for the upgrade on this initial four day detecting trip, even though I was already familiar with how the F75 worked. It wasn't until I took it back to old sites, ones I had been to several times and was like "yeah this one sometimes makes my F75 chatter with EMI" that I really started to appreciate the work that FT put into the upgrade (perfect or not).

Now that I've had the unit out about 15 different days, many days hitting different sites, I feel I have an understanding and appreciation for the upgrade. Yes it still had the mama pinpoint bug in the new 2-tones, and lost some depth in AM mode, but when not running those modes, it was deeper, more quite, more stable, better TID, it was a marked improvement on several counts. But as someone that also has a full time job, it would be tough to fully evaluate a machine in a month. That said, the reviews are still data points to consider.

For those that know me, I'm big on wine, mostly Cabs and Pinots, but I like a lot of others too. I don't put a lot of stock into Wine Enthusiast and Wine Spectator reviews, the scores on the Costco wines are almost meaningless. I do look at Cellartracker and see what the community reviews are, and even those are taken with a big grain of salt. Does the person reporting their score have a similar pallet as you, did they have a properly stored bottle, if it's a young red, did they decant it long enough for it to open up? These unknowns remind me of the multitude of variables we face in detecting as well. Did the person really know what they were doing? What's their dirt like? Any EMI in the equation? We're they using the right coil for the type of detecting? I guess this is all part of the fun, trying to master the machine and it's seemingly infinite amount of variables to get the job done

That said, I for one, look forward to seeing Keith and Steve's feedback, and every one else that puts the time into testing the machine and memorializing their experience.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2015 09:02PM by Cal_cobra.

Hi ncwayne,,,,hey buddy it's all good, it's just the cabin fever speaking....LoL....JJ

Michael Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> canslawhero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "You guys honestly just do not get it. Here
> > everyone is, begging for information on one
> hand,
> > then slapping the people who are expected to
> > provide the information with the other hand.
> The
> > whole reason people like me are given machines
> is
> > so we can help answer your questions. I am not
> > trying to sell you the detector and could care
> > less in fact if you ever buy one. This holier
> than
> > thou attitude that Michael cops. Really,
> Michael,
> > you think you can be 100% honest? Well they why
> do
> > you assume I or anyone else cannot be?"
> >
> > don't let it get under your skin Steve....there
> > are outliers (in both directions) anywhere you
> > look....I'd wager the vast majority are very
> > appreciative of all that you do, and many, I'm
> > sure don't post...
> > you've put your cards on the table very clearly
> > many times (must get old) and if some are still
> > doubters then so be it....your honesty/passion
> > stand out....exceptional folks in many
> endeavours
> > have always taken/lived with flak and thrive
> > regardless....looking forward to your
> > review/analysis...
>
> Seems as if we hit a sore spot! If you are
> offended I am sorry but it may also mean you feel
> like you cannot personally. So calm the jets my
> friend and if you are a tester and just do that;
> test the unit and report back what you find. I
> don't recall anyone stating a name or calling
> anyone out as being dishonest here. It is just a
> human nature that if one feels like they have a
> ride of good tidings that a manufacturer may get a
> bit miffed if their product may not hold all the
> water they claim. In turn the tester may know
> this and hesitant to point out all the bad. It is
> called omissions......and yes I deal with it all
> the time in my profession. In turn omissions get
> my opposition anywhere from 10-life in federal
> prison. So no one called you out.........so you
> may want to discharge your holier than all
> attitude and not take offense to comments. I have
> watched the banter here of a few and I have to
> say, some of you are rather pompous in attitude.
> Not impressed one bit myself. So go shake another
> tree and try to rile the monkeys there
> too.......you have done nothing to impress me.


We're not here to impress you newbie!---And quit insulting Steve!

1#
leave the field testers alone. They are likely under a legal contract to not divulge any information until given a green light
2#
FYI. there are more than 1 type of "tester".

A: there are the technical testers that help the engineers get to the final product and these are the most tight lipped ones, and for good reason

B: There are the ones that get machines after testing that are good at posting and relaying that info to the forum users. (usually good reviews)

C: Then there are the Dankowskis. (if Tom will allow that term ) They evaluate those same machines in a non biased almost clinical setting, and that's usually when we finally get the real poop on any particular machine.
D: and then there is US. Some things just take a while to come to light, and after some months or years in some cases, the flavor od any particular machine starts coming thru. Keith is particularly good at this, as are a few other here.

My advice to anyone considering the Racer: BUY it and evaluate it yourself. It seems like a decent buy $$ wise as compared to a lot of flagships out there.
I'll stick to my F75 till I perceive something out there is better for ME. Only time and input from end users will tell.................

If I may put my two cents in :0)

As Gary is not on this forum I feel I should say a few words on his behalf being admin on his site.

Have you every tried a machine that Gary has gave a good review and felt the machine was diabolical ?

Being I've know Gary for sometime now he has had many many machines sent to him from many manufactures.

He has also sent many machines back without doing a review because he don't want to be disrespectful to the manufacturer due to he feels the machine is not up to scratch but sent a report and a list of changes that he feels should be made.

If he reviews a machine and dislikes it then puts off people buying it that truly would not be fair due to another person might genuinely like it if they purchased it... Hence if he feels it's a genuinely a good machine he will praise it.

The saying one mans muck is another mans gold come to mind.

So if you see a popular machine on the market that has not been reviewed by Gary you now know why.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2015 12:23AM by Ziggy.

Ziggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I may put my two cents in :0)
>
> As Gary is not on this forum I feel I should say a
> few words on his behalf being admin on his site.
>
> Have you every tried a machine that Gary has gave
> a good review and felt the machine was diabolical
> ?
>
> Being I've know Gary for sometime now he has had
> many many machines sent to him from many
> manufactures.
>
> He has also sent many machines back without doing
> a review because he don't want to be disrespectful
> to the manufacturer due to he feels the machine is
> not up to scratch but sent a report and a list of
> changes that he feels should be made.
>
> If he reviews a machine and dislikes it then puts
> off people buying it that truly would not be fair
> due to another person might genuinely like it if
> they purchased it... Hence if he feels it's a
> genuinely a good machine he will praise it.
>
> The saying one mans muck is another mans gold come
> to mind.
>
> So if you see a popular machine on the market that
> has not been reviewed by Gary you now know why.

There is almost a CODE among good testers. Talk about the good, only report bad if asked. Like you said, sometimes bad is good to someone else. Depends on how they hunt, what they hunt and where they hunt.
I have sent Gary an email asking a question about a unit, and he has never failed to respond with an honest answer.

Tom in SC

Don't worry about it Del.

You know, a person can be critical in a positive fashion. I did the first major write up on the Nokta FORS Gold at [www.detectorprospector.com]

Anyone that cares to read it will see I spent a third of the review going over weak spots in the design. Most of which, by the way, have now been fixed on way or another. Good manufacturers welcome suggestions for improvement.

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't worry about it Del.
>
> You know, a person can be critical in a positive
> fashion. I did the first major write up on the
> Nokta FORS Gold at
> [www.detectorprospector.com]-
> detailed-review-of-the-nokta-fors-gold-nugget-dete
> ctor/
>
> Anyone that cares to read it will see I spent a
> third of the review going over weak spots in the
> design. Most of which, by the way, have now been
> fixed on way or another. Good manufacturers
> welcome suggestions for improvement.

Steve I hadn't seen your reviews in the past, but I read the Nokta FORS Gold review and really enjoyed it! Great job on the gold finds too, nice specimens!

Steve Herschbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Keith has it covered here. I will post my
> thoughts on my forum when given the ok to do so by
> Dilek.


Wrong answer bud! Haha,I understand where your coming from,but your input is apreciated by most of us here to. Heck, anyone that gets their mitts on a new unit is welcome to post their thoughts here. You may notice things Keith doesnt,and vice versa. And btw,you have an OUTSTANDING forum...I highly recomend everyone that loves Toms forum,check out Steves too.Ray

WOW! Cabin fever man,lol. Hey JJ,since I made the first comment after Lowboy, let me clarify..I was NOT poking fun of him,was actually a little confused and thought maybe he missed that Steve was a tester. I consider Lowrenzo a friend.
Hope spring thaw comes early for yall,before someone sticks an ax in a door and yells "HERES JOHNNY!! lol.

Hi Ray,,,I understand & it's all good buddy....LoL.... I also believe that Lowboy might be under some medication because of his past or present illness so he might not be thinking clearly....We are the lucky ones and look how we are spending our time..United We Stand Divided We Fall comes to mind....We should be spending our time more constructively and pooling our information so we can all BENEFIT and enjoy what little time we have left on this place we call Earth....JJ


PS: I don't even know what all the bickering is about I just jumped in there....LoL....

PS: I don't even know what all the bickering is about I just jumped in there....LoL....
haha!!

My self esteem ain't low enough that I have the need to come to a forum to try and impress somebody. And shame on anybody that is so arrogant that thinks the other posters should be trying to impress him. Or that we give a rats hindend if we do impress somebody or not. There's other forums for people like that to go suckle up to the power teats but this ain't one of those forums.

the racer has an achilles heel ,the wifi headphones are nothing like the reliable and integrated XP wifi phones ,so this will put UK buyers off i am afraid ,its an afterthought

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My self esteem ain't low enough that I have the
> need to come to a forum to try and impress
> somebody. And shame on anybody that is so
> arrogant that thinks the other posters should be
> trying to impress him. Or that we give a rats
> hindend if we do impress somebody or not. There's
> other forums for people like that to go suckle up
> to the power teats but this ain't one of those
> forums.


Amen!!

deathray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WOW! Cabin fever man,lol. Hey JJ,since I made the
> first comment after Lowboy, let me clarify..I was
> NOT poking fun of him,was actually a little
> confused and thought maybe he missed that Steve
> was a tester. I consider Lowrenzo a friend.
> Hope spring thaw comes early for yall,before
> someone sticks an ax in a door and yells "HERES
> JOHNNY!! lol.

LoL!!

That'd be ME Ray!

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My self esteem ain't low enough that I have the
> need to come to a forum to try and impress
> somebody. And shame on anybody that is so
> arrogant that thinks the other posters should be
> trying to impress him. Or that we give a rats
> hindend if we do impress somebody or not. There's
> other forums for people like that to go suckle up
> to the power teats but this ain't one of those
> forums.


Absolutely Daniel!

diggers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the racer has an achilles heel ,the wifi
> headphones are nothing like the reliable and
> integrated XP wifi phones ,so this will put UK
> buyers off i am afraid ,its an afterthought


And how would you know that ? its not even out in the wild yet to find out if its reliable or not

as its a plugin module and not an integrated unit we know what to expect ,its a 3rd party headphone and not their make ,seperate parts and 2 lots of batteries involved ,but they may surprise us

What some seem to miss is that testing a detector have to be done with its price segment in mind and also customer service and manufacturers effort to satisfy.

The ACE 250 has great reviews and good fieldtesting reports. There is no doubt most people reading this forum is aware of that and at the same time they dont want to use it instead of their Deus, F75, CoRe - whatever.

Reading the specs on the Racer and looking at the pricetag tells me this is a very good detector for the price if the detector works at all. It dont have to outrun the F 75, Deus or V3, CTX,

A good detector in a lower pricesegment means all others must follow with more options in the lower pricesegements. Today these are removed to reflect the price, not because they are expensive to implement.

.