Disappointing hunt with my Racer today

Went back to my local park with the Racer today. Same area I had taken my Deus when I first got it. I had recovered 8 Indian Heads and a Barber Dime and Buffalo nickel in a 10 by 30 ft. area with the deus. When I went back over the same area with the Racer with small coil no additional coin targets were recovered. Started hunting a much larger area with the Racer an only one wheat penny was recovered. Just felt like the small coil didn't have the power to reach the coins that I was able to cover with the deus. I never recovered one deep target. The one Wheatie I did recover was only 5 inches. Decided to put on the standard coil on the Racer. Did recover some deeper targets but, most where deep Iron or junk targets that came in at 83-85. No coins. By now I am really missing my Deus. It just seemed like when I was using the Deus I really felt like I was hitting deeper coin targets and I understood what the Deus was telling me. I recovered 7 to 10 inch coins with the Deus. I do believe the Racer with small coil can find the shallow coins in a iron and trashy areas but if they have any kind of depth to them the small coil just doesn't have the power to reach deeper coins. When I had hunted with the Racer the day before at a old house I was able to recover 7 or 8 wheaties but, none of them were deep. Again small coil great in trashy areas. Was really hoping to find more coins that the Deus missed but, I wasn't able to recover any. Maybe someone more skilled with the Racer would have had better results but, as of right now the Deus is my favorite. That may change in time as my skills improve with the Racer. But With the Deus coming out with new upgrades and possibly a smaller coil I may be selling my Racer and sticking with Deus. Thanks

Let me asked you this. What if you would have hunted your spot first with the Racer and dug the coins, and then took the Deus in there and got skunked?? Would that mean the Deus is no good??
I think you will find some sites where you will get no coins with Racer hunting behind Deus. I mean the Deus cost how much vs Racer?? And if you keep trying different sites you will indeed get some coins the Deus wouldn't alert you to. The Deus aint no slouch in the separation dept. It so happens the Racer aint no slouch either. It could be looked at as splitting hairs between these 2 great separators. But the coin has to just a certain way in iron and or trash for one detector to see it and the other not. I wouldn't get discouraged just yet. Give your Racer time. And the small coil, take your Racer with small coil to the nastiest places you have access to. This is where it will shine for sure.

Just a few weeks ago I took my CTX with stock coil to a CW site I had pounded with Deus, F75LTD2, Nokta CoRe. What did I find? Very little with the CTX. A couple targets, not deep either. Do I still have my CTX? yes Is the CTX a good unit. You betcha. Do I wish I would have found more??? Yep I actually thought the 4 bar soil on the meter of F75LTD2, the CTX would at least maybe get down a little deeper and I might come away with a few additional relics. It didn't happen. My way of thinking is this. The reason I didn't do so well with the CTX is because the other detectors did a great job, not because the CTX is a substandard detector.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 01:41AM by tnsharpshooter.

Talking about selling the racer already? I hate to think your gonna sell it for one bad hunt. Sounds like there is more to this story.

I understand what you are saying tnsharpshooter. I was just hoping the small coil on the Racer would have recover at least one deep coin target that the Deus missed so I could see what the small coil can do. I know I still have A lot to learn using the Racer. Still having trouble telling a deep good sounding target from a bad. I tried bearing a dime and penny about 5 to 7 inches and then going over them with the small coil. When I did I noticed the VDI was jumpy and the sound was mixed. Must have beared them beside trash because had trouble hitting the coins in different directions. Was just hoping the coin targets would sound better at that depth.

Dont use the small coil to dig deep compared to a DEUS 9 inch..

use the small coil in some of the nastiest sites full of trash you can find..

The advanatge you would have over the DEUS then would be seeing the harder masked targets..

But dont use a small coil to cover an area not littered with trash..

Use the tools for the areas your in...

The Racer makes a great all arounder but it makes a tremendous statement in high trash areas with that small coil...

horses for courses

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 02:07AM by Keith Southern.

I love my deus and I got the racer as a backup and for the small coil but I would never replace the deus for the racer the deus for me has so much more to offer and updates and wireles and easy to pack a very nice machine and very deep in my dirt and has found me a lot of great finds...I think for the price range the racer is a great machine but maybe you should try the F19 or sell it and get the deus and wait for the upgrade

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Cheer up! The situations aren't always the same...even if you were at the same 10'x30' area. Soil conditions, weather (even different temps), moon phase?...who knows...can all have an effect on one's luck. I'll bet that if you go back to that same spot later with the Racer...you will dig out some more coins. We really never get it all. A fraction of an inch on the coil swing one way or another can make all the difference. You would be surprised at what still hides in that area. Cheer up...or let me come over there with your Racer and I'll show you what I can find! My ears and your ears are different too you know! (mine are big and ugly BTW).

HH
Charles

Mccrorysjewelry2 ,
If I read your post correctly you still have a Deus. Some food for thought. And other Racer/Deus owners should take note of this as well. When you're using your Deus, most run some disc. But many will have iron volume off. So all the nails, small iron will be silent. If you'll hunt with your Deus with iron volume on. The areas you hunt where you get the machine gun fire coming in on the iron volume with Deus, these are the areas where Racer with small coil may pull some finds. Also where you notice machine gun fire coming in on the nonferrous tone side (if notch is used again you won't hear), again a great area for Racer with small coil attached. You see you can use your Deus if set up right to not only hunt but scout for areas where the Racer small coil combo has its biggest advantage. And you may not even be able to get back to the site/area for a while. But you will know where to go in the future when you get the chance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 02:29AM by tnsharpshooter.

I hear you guys. I'm not giving up on the Racer. Maybe I'm asking to much of the small Racer coil. It was designed for recovering more targets in trashy and iron filled areas not so much for depth. The area that I tested the small coil in most all older coins recovered with the Deus from that spot where deep. So I guess it wasn't a fare test for the smaller coil. Like Keith said it's not going to get the depth of the 9 or 11 inch coils of the Deus. The Deus and Racer both have there strong points and in time I will learn what those strong points are and use them to my advantage. Thanks for everyone help.

I leave my iron vol on at 1-2 on the deus I like to hear the iron

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Thats a good approach McCrory..

The small coil will be a lazer beam in iron and or modern trash and have good depth in iron and or modern trash more than you may have been accustom to till now..

It can see targets that will leave you scratching your head at how did I miss that...I do it on most every trip into thick iron ..I find clean non iffy target tones that have just plain been ignored till now..

I have a good 80 hours or more on the Racer and it still surprises me in Iron with the small OOR 5" coil..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I don't like using much discrimination when I hunt. I want to be able to hear the iron and trash and try to pick the good signals out. I have my Deus set on 6 disc. I also have it set up using the Ed Huffman coin settings. That program has worked well for me.

Mccrorysjewelry2,
Sometimes folks feel because they find some deep coins, all coins remaining at the site are deep. Sometimes this is the case, sometimes not. And many times the deeper coins are discovered in the cleaner areas where many detectors can find them. In the areas loaded with loads of trash/iron/nails, most stock coil setup detectors will struggle in these areas. They either hunt them and make little to no finds or after they get in the area and realize how bad it is- they run from it/stay away from it. For example why would a 139 year old seated dime be nestled at 5". There was clad I discovered at deeper depths some 50 ft away. The area the dime was nestled was guess what, machine gun fire with CoRe unit both iron and nonferrous. Same thing happened a few days later at same site but 250 ft away. I was using CoRe unit with small coil. Had only found 1 wheat. I got on the right side of hotel and machine gun fire started sounding. I even commented to my bud. Something should be in here-loads of nails. Sure enough a few minutes later I struck a 12 1/2 cent trade token at around 5 inches. I know this entire site has been hunted hard. White's even list it on their good places to find old coins here in TN. Just remember machine gun fire is your best friend if you own a Racer with small coil or Fisher F19 with 5x10" coil or Nokta CoRe with small coil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 03:14AM by tnsharpshooter.

Welcome to the real world. I took my Core to the same area where I had found the 9 .69 CW bullets with the AT PRO. You know what I found? Lots and lots of deep aluminum.

It's the nature of the beast. Sometimes there are no hidden coins to be found. The Deus is a hard act to follow.

The correct strategy for the Racer/5" is to find areas with lots of nails. You will find good targets.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of what settings were used
for this disappointing hunt with the Racer and 5" coil.
What mode(s) did you use?
What settings for gain and target ID?
How often did you ground balance? What readings did you get?
What kind of target IDs did you dig and what did you not dig?

Maybe some of us can suggest other things you can try
if you post this kind of info. I'd like to see what settings people have
been having success with in various conditions.

In this hobby there will be days you'll go home with zero finds! After 38 years of 'huntin', I would swear to that on a bible!
Just the way it is.
A LOT depends on Mood - if in a 'good n positive mood' it can help!
However, IMHO [ it sounds like ] you have already made up your mind [ not to ] favor the 'Racer'
OK. That's fine, it's a free country after all. Come to think of it, I don't favor the Duice...

dig a test garden with coins at all depths and have a shootout between the 2 machines and let us know the results

Well,Bye.

Some days you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you and certainly a truism in this hobby...Takes time to learn a new unit and certainly hours of hunting to become proficient...

I like the post relative which unit is used first for sure...

I would go through a bad streak and want to wrap my machine around a poll..but then I would hunting and start finding great finds so it balances out and I have more good days then bad...but I unerstand you get a new detector and hope you find lots of cool finds and you don't but that shows how good your deus is..I would never think the racer can or will replace the deus but it might find a few sleepers in iron you missed

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

I did go into this with high hopes. This area I was hunting has been hunted by many since the 60's. There are areas that have lots of trash and iron where most will not even try to hunt. From everything I had heard about the Racer I was hoping that I could find coins that others couldn't because of the small coil and fast recovery. The area I hunted with the Deus was covered with trash and had lots of iron mixed in. I was able to pull 8 Indians and a Barber and nickel out of this spot. They were all like I said 7 to 10 inches. I just don't know if I had used the Racer first if I could have found those coins because of the depth. I was hoping there were some shallow older coins hiding in that same area that the Racer would hit on with the small coil that the Deus missed. Then again the Racer with standard coil may have found all those coins that the Deus hit if I had used it first. Not giving up on the Racer. Like you said it only takes some times going at a spot in a different direction or other factors to hit coins that you missed before. I had the Racer set on 3 tone and gain I tried any where from 70 to 95. The ground balance showed 60's to 70's ground conditions. The Racer was running very smooth even at 95 gain. What if any setting do you think I should try in this area? I just got tired of digging up tabs and iron nails and aluminum. I have been using detectors for 40 years now so I'm not a newbie at this. If I didn't think the Racer wasn't a good machine I would have never ordered it and got 3 different size coils. So I didn't go into this thinking the Deus is a better detector than the Racer. I was hoping that the 2 would make a great team. Thanks for every ones help. That's what I love about this forum. Everyone tells it like it is and everyone tries to help. Thanks again, Kevin

Hey Kev,

Fair play...your last post is true of many searchers: always thinking a 'newer' unit will be [ better? ]

Reason I favor the 'Racer' at the moment is last few weeks at one really trashy [ and worked out ] site it produced a few "surprises", documented here on Tom's Forum (Ref: Thread reference I think was small coil hunt in a park) BUT,

The 'Racer' produced in an area the entire BBS & FBS & VFLEX range had been prototyped. Also, T2, F75, F19, Duice, Duice Gold etc etc. And, it has been difficult to coax further targets out!! It's got to the stage now that I am investigating [ definite whisper spits ] just in case something is being 'masked'

Whatever or how ever ' it does it's thing", I have to hand it to the Turkish software developers, the 'Racer' is truly amazing.

Des D

It will take some more time for sure. If you're digging up tabs, nails, and aluminum like you mentioned you haven't even begain to catch on to the nuances of the machine yet. I very seldom dig a nail, they will be in the plug with a good target though a lot, several of them. Aluminum, will bounce the TID coming and going and just not sound solid. Tabs fall all over depending what kind they are. Beavertails I hardly ever dig. If we held it in the air and all the good stuff came out of the ground and surrendered it wouldn't be fun. Although pretty close.................. Good headphones and some time.

Mccrorysjewelry2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if any
> setting do you think I should try in this area?

Try 2 Tone until you get to know the machine better.
It's easier to understand and You can easily switch over to 3 tone to check signals.
I had good luck at a very trashy spot running my gain at 70, ID filter 23 using 2 tone.
2 tone is deeper than 3 tone too.
I would like to see what other people are experiencing but when I get a pretty steady 83 on my racer it's usually a
flattened aluminum screw cap.
Coins will some time get an occasional 83 bounce but usuly be 82 or 84 and higher.
Steady 83 always seams to be trouble. I haven't had a coin ring up steady 83 yet but I have only been out twice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2015 04:39PM by Cabin Fever.

Tell me this anyone. When using the small coil what will a deeper target sound like? Will the VDI lock in on a good target or jump around? Will it be a short sound or wide? What are the signs that a target is deep and is a good target with the Racer? Thanks, Kevin

The best way to tell about target response is to go over known buried targets, I have an old coin and trash set up in my front yard.

The coins are nickels at 6".. dimes from 6" to 8",,,, quarters from 8" to 10",,,, couple halfs at 11" and two silver dollars at over a foot.

Hombre, Do you have the Racer and small coil? If so can you do the depth test with your buried coins and tell me how the small coil preforms? Thanks

I'll tell you what I know and think based on my use/test and what I have read from trusted sources. I tested my Racer in airtest over a quarter. In DI3 it seemed to me if the quarter gave tone it gave TID.
There may have been a real small area in distance where in DI3 I got a broken signal and no TID. In DI2 in airtesting over the quarter there was about an inch give or take where good tone was heard but no tone. Like a dummy I didn't check AM. This sorta follows NASA Tom's results in his MAKRO field testing data. But remember DI3 was amped up on production units-not Mr Dankowski's test unit used in his testing. Well anyway there's a gent on FM forum name Southwind who's over the Racer with stock coil on a 10" undug wheat. This may shed some light for you. I think the Racer when over a deep target; especially DI2 it will be very possible to get over a deep target (coin) and not receive TID. The high tone will only denote nonferrous unfortunately. I also believe if in DI3 if you get a high tone and no TID, all you will know is the metal in the ground is making the tone break. And if a mid tone, the same the metal is only conductive enough to make the mid tone break. Could a person in DI3 latch on to a borderline target when it comes to the way the Racer;s tone break is set going from mid tone to high tone? Meaning could depth drive a higher conductor if shallow would read high tone, but add substantial depth, target turns to mid tone. I can't comment yet cause it hasn't happened to me. I do know besides not showing TID i.e. using DI2, the racer tends to always it seems up average TID on deep targets (airtest reveal this also). But if a target is being detected in very close proximity to iron/nails, the TID will be drawn down usually with higher peaks of TID noted on sweeps of the target. Over good quality metals the tone is a lot crisper/narrower vs over less worthy metals. Something for you to try. Put a clad dime and clad quarter on the ground and sweep. Then compare with a silver dime and silver quarter on the .ground. One thing I think you'll notice just by the tone duration the dime and quarter sound the same. I think when you start adding depth the tone over a coin will be short also. It sort of reminds me of Deus in this regard. This information may or may not help you. If I get more time over more deep(er) coins I could maybe give more accurate comments. Deeper coins the TID may swing a few more points vs moderately deep coins. IMO more stable than F75 with boost if this helps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2015 12:24AM by tnsharpshooter.

Since I can't edit. A nickel in 3 tone will read as a midtone at shallow and moderate depths. At deep/fringe depths the nickel will ring with high tone. So on most real deep detectable targets you are more likely to get the high tone and TID if present likely in the 90's or possibly nonexistent.

Here's the video Southwind posted on FM of the Racer nailing a 10" deep wheatie that the Etrac (running the Ultimate coil??) struggled to hear.

[youtu.be]

One thing that I noticed about the video, is that there appears that there also may be a deep piece of iron next to the coin as at times we hear a grunt (no TID), and other times we do get ~ 21 TID/grunt in the video. Could be what knocked out the Etracs (apparently his friend also tried it on his Etrac and heard nothing)?