Having a hard time gettind deep silver dimes w/the F75 LTD

I've been hunting with a couple of friends that jumped on the Etrac bandwagon. It seems that the ETs are doing a far better job on deep turf silver dimes then the LTD. Larger silver isn't an issue (I got a measured 11" deep SLQ that sounded off loud and clear), but smaller silver seems to be elusive. I typically hunt in BP mode, 3, 3H or 4 tones (mainly 3 tones), disc on 7 and sensitivity as high as I can get away with. I usually sweep pretty slowly.

Any tips on bagging those deep silver dimes ( 8"-11" ) ? I'd hate to have to sell off the LTD to buy a ET, but it's humbling letting the minelab boys walk away with the silver

Happy hunting,
Brian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 12:21PM by Cal_cobra.

I began using an etrac after using the F70 then the F75. I don't believe the Etrac is deeper, it is just easier to ID silver and deep targets than the F75. I have a friend that I hunt with that uses the F70, whenever I get a deep hit that begins to break up on the Etrac, I tell him to check the signal with his F70, he always gets it loud and clear. Sometimes he will find a deep signal and ask me to try to tell him what it is, I can almost always tell him if it's a coin or if it's junk. I bet that is why they find more small silver, because the etrac IDs so much better than the F75.

Aaron

gates21 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I began using an etrac after using the F70 then
> the F75. I don't believe the Etrac is deeper, it
> is just easier to ID silver and deep targets than
> the F75. I have a friend that I hunt with that
> uses the F70, whenever I get a deep hit that
> begins to break up on the Etrac, I tell him to
> check the signal with his F70, he always gets it
> loud and clear. Sometimes he will find a deep
> signal and ask me to try to tell him what it is, I
> can almost always tell him if it's a coin or if
> it's junk. I bet that is why they find more small
> silver, because the etrac IDs so much better than
> the F75.
>
> Aaron


Aaron I think you are exactly right, it's not that the LTD won't hear it, but the ID is so poor, I probably pass over it. Their always saying that they can usually tell it's deep silver before digging it, but I can't tell on the LTD.

If anyone has any tips on helping to increase the ability to make that dig/no dig decision I'd appreciate it. I do usually try to gauge if it's a deeper target with the depth meter, but somehow I still seem to be missing the deep silver their finding.

Brian

Though I've not had an Etrac, I've had all the other Explorers and available coils. In fact, (I think) it's still accurate to say I've logged more hours on the three different Explorers than any other single detector. Now, being that I wasn't there to directly see and hear what was going on, I can only add this from my own experience. I've heard deep and or partially masked silver dimes with both F-75's, Frat Boys, and Explorers. There are times that you can wiggle up a better tone and sometimes even the ID using an Explorer but I've also seen it go the other way quite a bit, ONCE you know by experience how the two "typically" respond to fringe or marginally masked silver targets. I think one of the biggest differences and what probably (arguably) feeds the "illusion" is the Explorer is (unless adjusted otherwise) using a multi-tone system more like DP and more importantly uses some averaging whereas the FT detector is more of a "raw data" based display. With the former, you MIGHT tend to get more semi-consistant higher tones mixed in as you do the wiggle directly over the target, and again, being DIRECTLY over the target will even be more critical in analyzing raw or "real time" data of the 75's et al. I can honestly say I've seen more deep silver targets respond literally all over the scale with the ML, while the 75 did so in a slightly less (but still big) range. Point being, with with relatively equal experience of both, I actually was more confident of my dig decisions with the 75 more often than not on the fringe stuff. Another thing that I think plays into all this is the fact that (again usually and especially with ET's) the operator is running in auto sensitivity while the 75 operator is running hotter than need be and those two differences can lead to the appearence of a "better" ID with the ML. What one should do IMO, especially when you're taking the time to compare targets between two different detectors, is go beyond just how/if they both hear a target by trying as much of the adjustability you can play with to determine what setting(s) actually gives the best diggable response the certain detector can deliver. You may be surprised, and you'll certainly probably learn a fair amount in doing so. Bottom line Brian....I know full well what it feels like when someone else with a different detector seems to be outhunting you but if you can examine what is going on objectively, it's usually more of a combination of skill/experience with the particular detector coupled with a lesser degree of luck. Virtually NO ONE hunts slower than a highly experienced successful Explorer (or Sov) user. That too lends itself to hearing more that you examine further which on the surface may make it seem the Exp is THE ticket. You said it yourself.....both detectors hear the target but you're missing some of them.............the big opportunity still lies within you, not a new detector. Patiently and with attention to every detail you can think of........learn the language (which only comes from being on top of actual silver targets and subsequent recoveries) and settings (remember, warp drive 10 isn't the best all the time) ....or disregard this and drop another $1500 to find out for yourself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 02:57PM by BuckeyeBrad.

Hey Brad, been a while eh? Thanks for your detailed reply and real life experiences.

The guys I hunt with are pretty savvy detectorists, and have used all the older Explorers but claim that the ET is better on deep target ID then the previous models. They also had F75 LTDs, one sold his withing a couple of months, the other kept it, but I don't think he uses it much. I don't believe (unless the situation dictates it) their using auto sensitivity, I think they run their machines pretty hot, but adjust it to suit the area (EMI sometimes gets them like me, requiring detuning).

We're going out to an old park this evening. A lot of good 1800's coins have come from this park, but it's drying up, it's TOUGH hunting now with most keepers being quite deep. I almost declined to go, but I'm going to shadow one of them to do some deeper signal comparisons. As you suggested I'll try running through various settings and see if I can find one that makes a difference. I don't typically try this, because the LTD is really a pretty simple machine in regards to settings, there's not much to adjust. The good news about this park, is that even though it's practically in downtown Oakland, amazingly there's almost no EMI, and the soil is pretty tame. It's the only park I've been able to run several machines really hot (including my old C$) and they ran well.

If running the sensitivity too hot on the F75 affects the TID, is there a quick field litmus test to determine the highest sensitivity setting without compromising TID accuracy ? I tend to run it in "Dankowski mode" as much as possible (99 sens, 0 or 7 disc), but maybe for turf hunting this isn't the best setup. I'm always concerned that by dropping the sensitivity to 80 or less, that I'll really get creamed by the Etracs as I'll loose depth.

Thanks!
Brian

A lot of very interesting thoughts about the LTD!

I have no problem getting very deep silver dimes with my f-75. I do this by hunting in AM with the sensitivity turned up as close to 99 as I can get away with. All metal is considerably deeper than any other setting on the f75. The ID in all metal seems to be more consistant than when using disc. It certainly is worth a try to see if your detector responds the same.

I also coin hunt with a friend who uses an E-trac. Before that he had a SE Explorer and before that he had a Whites DFX. He didn't find one silver coin until this year with the E-trac...it was a celebration so to speak. He did find a deep Jersey copper and many large cents with the SE & E-trac. With my F-75 I have found many many silver coins along with coppers indian heads, flying eagles etc. However, I do hunt much more than he does.
He let me borrow his SE to check it out (I still have it) and I noticed it does ID nicely having the conductive and the ferrous numbers to read. Using the SE in low trash areas was a pleasure but when there are many targets in the ground I like the F-75 hands down, much faster response. I konw the E-trac is a bit better than the SE but they are similar in many respects. I have not used the E-trac and I'm not doing a head to head here, but after observing and being around and hunting with the Explorer class I'll take the F-75 in my hands any day, I can do surgery with it. Again this is NOT a head to head comparison, I'd like to own an E-trac or an SE among many other machines, as for now the F-75 on my arm is a tool I am very fond of.

Brian I have both an F75 LTD and an Etrac. I noticed you said you sweep slowly. On a dime buried at exactly 8 1/2 inches I have to sweep the LTD very briskly to hit it in BP mode at a sensitivity of 70 or above. I get chatter also at 70 or above. With the Etrac at a manual sensitivity of 25 I hit the dime sweeping at a slow easy sweep speed. The Etrac is also much quieter in terms of EMI or chatter. That's been my experience for what its worth.

Edit - I guess I should add that I live in a rural setting so I can't say how the Etrac will respond in a challenging EMI environment. I do know that it is quieter than my LTD at my home. I will also say that the Etrac VID is more accurate on the deep targets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 09:51PM by dgc.

I normally hunt with one or two people - what that inevitably leads to is someone calling you over to a target they feel they have positively identified. Sometimes I would switch to my F75 mid-way through an outing and there were several times where I couldn't hear a peep, but the Explorer XS knew it was a deep dime. That got me to sell the F75 and buy an LTD. The depth problem was gone, but the ID was poor and in iron trash (IE. torn down home) the falsing created a situation where I had to investigate so many sounds that I was hunting slower than when I use the Explorer. I was able to mitigate that somewhat with 2F tones, but it was still exhausting. On turf, I basically resigned myself to digging all 8" targets. I don't think you can beat the LTD though for hunting wide open spaces.

I let the LTD go for a water machine, but I'll revisit it down the road. I want the Fisher brand to work for me because I like the design of the detectors. Lately the company in general has done some bizarre stuff (have you seen the video manuals or the rants by the star of those videos on other forums?), so I hope they get things going again and put out a monster machine.

I'm glad to see folks talking this out because this type of discussion got me banned from the Fisher forum on Findmall - hahaha! Oh well - what can you do except tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 09:55PM by Shambler.

Interesting to see all of these different responses and different performance results from different parts of the country. It will not get you 'banned' from this web-site.

I have not had the experiences some of you have encountered with the ML E-Trac 'trumping' the F75 LTD. I have experienced the exact opposite performance resultant......here in low/no mineralization FLA. The LTD is a 'hands-down' leader.....and by a fair amount..... in Florida. This goes for 'trash free' areas.........and especially iron trash infested sites. Depending upon what mode is selected on the Minelab.....most cases......the Minelab would 'null' whilst in iron infested dirt. Now..........add a fair amount of dirt mineralization.........and the Explorer takes the lead.

I would hunt in four tone and no disc or mono tone and a disc of 0-6 and see if you hit the deep silver?

LowBoy

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I`m thinking along the same lines as Tom.
Although I`m not using the LTD edition . I find with the anniversary F75, finding deep silver with it ,will equal what ever the E tracs will find all day long.
I search in" All metal mode ",95% of the time ,and if its beneath me I`ll get it.
I`ve Never found a silver coin yet that an E trac user hit on,and when compared with the F75 the F75 failed to hit .
I can only suggest you experiment with the settings to find your optimum search settings.

If ANY detector 'trumps' the F75 LTD..........for coins...........for relics...........for iron trash infested sites...............I would instantly e-bay the LTD and buy the new trump-card. You guys would be the first to know of this move.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If ANY detector 'trumps' the F75 LTD..........for
> coins...........for relics...........for iron
> trash infested sites...............I would
> instantly e-bay the LTD and buy the new
> trump-card. You guys would be the first to know of
> this move.

Well you can't be any more straight forward than that. Thanks Tom. In my post above comparing the F75 LTD to the Etrac the last thing I want to do is mislead anyone. Both are fine detectors. I will say this. When the LTD hits, it hits hard and there is no doubt that it is much easier on my arm than the Etrac. The LTD is simply a pleasure to swing. I can go all day with it. I have to take breaks with the Etrac.

I have no doubt what Tom is saying regarding the LTD is true, however I have had mine for quite a few months and I just cant get past all the noise it makes. I really like the machine. I just got it back from Fisher because I cant get it to ground balance here in Michigan. The Fe gauge is usually all the way at the bottom, so the minerazation is low up here. Fisher couldnt replicate the problem. So I dont know what to think. It hits hard on coins but sometimes it just wont shut up even when Im not moving the coil and thats with the sensitivity low. Usually, once I put it over 85 it really chatters alot. I'll keep workin with it.
Aaron

It will chatter over 85 ,your running it nearly flat out.
Your hearing everything underneath you ,which is what happens when you turn the sensitivity right up. The low grunting is the rubbish and the high squeals are more often than not the non ferrous soundings. The visual read out which accompanies the sounds will usually give you a guidance on whether to dig or not . I only dig signals over 18 and top end 90`s are more often than not Big Iron too. The F75 is such a user friendly detector I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can fail to Gel with it. It begs you to like it and it cannot get any simpler in its visual and signal out put of info to the user. Try working in "all metal "and watch the meter for anything over 18 ,anything below 18 ignore and listen for the high squeals.
When ground balancing make sure the ground beneath you is Iron free ,its imperative the ground is clean of any junk you GB on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2010 04:19PM by Jeb.

I have had two occasions to do side by side comparisons with an etrac, and both times my LTD sniffed out deep silver dimes that the etrac user said he would not have dug. Any deeper targets that he was going to dig, my LTD hit them nicely, as well. I run in bp with 0 disc. and sen. usually 85 and upward. My gb is usually in the mid 60's, but does vary some from site to site. HH jim tn

Aaron,

On your F75............swich over to to all-metal side of the house............and make sure that your in 'motion' (and not static). Then..........switch back over to the Disc side of the house. ((( I'm hoping that you find your detector is in 'static' mode..........as this will cause EMI whilst in Disc mode. Yes, the all-metal mode DOES effect the Disc mode ))).

I think Felix already walked me through that procedure, I will try it again as per your instructions.
Thanks Tom