Whites V3i Gold cherry picker?

I know this is not 100%,But have you V3i guys found the combination of the analyze screen,polar plot, and pinpoint 3 freq. easier to cherry pick certain gold rings and other gold items? I know the best way is to dig all signals in the VDI,But for some people like myself who can't dig many holes as to not loose what few spots we have left it could cut down the amount of digging. Thanks.

Harold,

I think the V3i is the ultimate in visual discrimination. I picked up another one for use in my park settings just for that very purpose; hunting gold jewelry in non-ferrous trash. The visual disc capabilities of the V3 is much improved over the typical peak phase response VDI number of all the others. When you set up the visual components with the right resolution so that they can show detail, you get a interpretable visual picture of whats in the ground. When you combine the signagraph and analyze screen data you can really start to learn a whole new language.

Mine is on its way to Whites for the upgrade from the V3 to the V3i. When it gets back and I get to put the libary together I'll share some.

HH
Mike

Thanks Mike as that would be awesome!

When I had mine, using all the visuals the machine had available, pull tabs and rings looked the same. To my knowledge there is no VLF detector that can distinguish pull tabs from Gold jewelry. I wished their was I'd have one in a heartbeat.

Yes after you properly learn to set up the V it can help distinguish between junk and gold.
I've found more gold beachcombing with the V than with anything else I've ever tried 30 yrs detecting.
Don't try to outthink the machine as many that gave up way to early on learning the benifits of this highly adaptive machine.
Play around with the ground tracking speed and ground balance offsets both +&- in a known coin garden to gain some interesting insight.

I almost forgot to suggest that you need to un-normalize you vdi .
Then you can distinguish between square tabs and nickles easily without having to change screens to look at spectrograph analysis to assess your target
Air test some gold compared to pull tabs with vdi normalized and without for a real eye opener.
I think you'll find the V gives you the best chance of distinguishing the two that's currently available

How many different pull tabs are they?? Loads
How many different sized can slaw pieces??? Loads
How many different sized gold rings?? Loads
How many different alloy makeups in gold rings? Loads

Who ever is trying to say they can tell a gold ring in the ground with a metal detector before digging is doing nothing more than trying to pull someone's leg.

VDI on gold rings is all over the map even in mild soil too, just like the boatloads of the different sized aluminum junk in the ground.
And throw in some mineral and the equation gets even more complicated, depth too.

As far as the gold ring finders. You can bet the farm whoever is digging lots of gold rings is digging loads of tabs/can slaw no matter what detector they are using.

Perhaps but remember gold rings are much heavier than the junk so I imagine many have found audio variances and such which cut down the odds. Tesoro's are one I found that audio variances are prevalent to a experienced ear..No sure way of course but cutting down the odds helps...

There you have it. Tnsharpshooter said it can't be done so we can all quit and go home now.

But he is wrong. Just because he didn't figure it out doesn't mean it can't be done.

Gold rings are different than tabs.
Gold rings are different than can slaw.
Gold rings are different than foil.

'In the ground', that difference can be seen on a properly configured V3.

HH
Mike

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There you have it. Tnsharpshooter said it can't
> be done so we can all quit and go home now.
>
> But he is wrong. Just because he didn't figure it
> out doesn't mean it can't be done.
>
> Gold rings are different than tabs.
> Gold rings are different than can slaw.
> Gold rings are different than foil.
>
> 'In the ground', that difference can be seen on a
> properly configured V3.
>
> HH
> Mike

Yes Tnss is definitely mistaken on what conclusion to a targets composition is based on the analiisist provided by the V3i.
Is it 100%?
No it's not but I can say for sure that the difference can be distinguished to avoid digging most of the junk .
Go to the beaches see what people are using and what Thier finds consist off.
The new coil combo offered by Whites is aimed at jewelry hunters / beachcombers.
Beware of the detectorist with a property configured V3i because less time digging trash can only lead to more time finding treasure.

See post #3 in this link. I guess this gent know nothing about the V3i either.

[forums.whiteselectronics.com]

And Mike I never said to go home to find gold but rather you'd better get to digging in order to find it. And yes you will find many tabs/small can slaw/nickels etc.
I never even mentioned a gold ring's orientation in the ground. This too presents variations on the detector's screen using all tools provided.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2015 04:10PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See post #3 in this link. I guess this gent know
> nothing about the V3i either.
>
> [forums.whiteselectronics.com]
> ?72864-How-accurate-(sure)-are-you


Yes he was acquainted with the v3i aspects but is your reading comprehension compromised?
Fox said to dig all to keep from missing gold but that can be said about anything.
Do you dig all targets while coin shooting?
Do you dig all targets while relic hunting?
The answer is obviously no.
I guarantee I can tell a heavy gold ring from a pull tab buried 6 inches in beach sand
No discrimination is full proof but the V's remain the best there is across the whole range of targets from high conductors to low.
There is even some members of our detecting club that are correctly id'ing different iron trash targets .

I guess I'm waiting for someone to tell me what a gold ring looks like and sounds like vs pull tabs/nickels/small can slaw.
Can't be VDI.
Can't be dominant frequency.

So what is it???

BTW, I do have some beach front property in Az for sale is someone is interested.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I'm waiting for someone to tell me what a
> gold ring looks like and sounds like vs pull
> tabs/nickels/small can slaw.
> Can't be VDI.
> Can't be dominant frequency.
>
> So what is it???
>
> BTW, I do have some beach front property in Az for
> sale is someone is interested.


That post in itself explains how much you understood about the aspects of the V3i platform " if you were ever acquainted at all"
Nuff said
If I can help anyone pm me

Exactly right. Properly configured tone is helpful but not required.

When it gets back from Whites and after I have time to reconfigure it I'll share. Proof is in the gold.

HH
Mike

Ps....I was ring hunting this weekend with a regular TID detector and got a target that I said ring! Gold Ring! Gold! Gold! Gold!. I could already see it in my mind; it was a ring and it was gold. I ripped a slit in the grass with my screwdriver, plopped the Sunray down in there to locate it and started popping it out of the dirt. I'm expecting to see a gold ring, I've already seen it in my mind, but instead of a shiny gold ring I see a shiny black ring coming out of the hole. Black??? Black gold??? Are they making black gold rings now? My mind is having a hard time transitioning from the expected shiny gold color to the reality of shiny black. It felt good, though a little light and I couldn't read the markings on the inside of the band until I got it home. Washed the dirt off and put it under the loop. Turned out to be a Spikes Stainless Steel Ring. 316L stainless. The V3 would have told me it was a ring, too. But I don't think it would have been able to tell me it was going to be 316L stainless. Somethings will still be a suprise.

[www.treasurenet.com]

[www.findmall.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2015 05:37PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.treasurenet.com]
> 3i-gold-rings.html
>
> [www.findmall.com]


Reference to above threads is irealavant because they only reference vdi and dominate frequency aspects without any reference to the many configurations available with no mention of audio.
Graciously awaiting more input from Mike on his configurations.
In my opinion some of the earlier suggestions provided concerning the V3i setup turned off or confused a lot of folks.
Most reference early on was to foxes configuration which made no suggestions or tactics to deal with mineralsation.

The V3i has been out for how many years. I can't seem to find one video that supports claims that the detector in question can distinguish a gold ring from a pull tab/nickel/small can slaw. Where are they? And if the detector is question can tell the difference between say a tab and gold ring, can it also tell the difference between a silver dime and clad dime at 8 inches of depth??? Don't think so.

And I might add there is a big difference between gold coins and even gold rings, at least gold coins have some sort of standard with their content and size per denomination.

And don't forget about depth and ground minerals they add even more possible deviation.

I've seen the V3i over deeper coins and seen video too. TID all over the place. Dominant freq on deeper targets harder to tell too.

You want to see a detector that has nuanced audio try a Racer, in particular with the 5" OOR coil. Now there's some real audio. V3i mostly sounds like a beep and dig. Granted you can break bottlecaps with bottlecap reject setting. But what the V3i really needs is a tab reject setting LOL.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The V3i has been out for how many years. I can't
> seem to find one video that supports claims that
> the detector in question can distinguish a gold
> ring from a pull tab/nickel/small can slaw. Where
> are they? And if the detector is question can
> tell the difference between say a tab and gold
> ring, can it also tell the difference between a
> silver dime and clad dime at 8 inches of depth???
> Don't think so.
>
> And I might add there is a big difference between
> gold coins and even gold rings, at least gold
> coins have some sort of standard with their
> content and size per denomination.
>
> And don't forget about depth and ground minerals
> they add even more possible deviation.
>
> I've seen the V3i over deeper coins and seen video
> too. TID all over the place. Dominant freq on
> deeper targets harder to tell too.
>
> You want to see a detector that has nuanced audio
> try a Racer, in particular with the 5" OOR coil.
> Now there's some real audio. V3i mostly sounds
> like a beep and dig. Granted you can break
> bottlecaps with bottlecap reject setting. But
> what the V3i really needs is a tab reject setting
> LOL.


Beep and dig with 100 tones?
I knew by your posts you've never had one!
You hyped the racer for months
I tried one for over 30 hrs - it's purely hype
How much junk you dig in modern trash with that racer id'ing everything no ferrous into the 80's?
Now that's truely beep and dig with no means of changing configuration to avoid it!
Still awaiting mikes configuration posts with open mind .
Remember a person convinced against his will be of the same opinion!
Good day to all.

Just gee whiz- the number of tone options a machine has doesn't mean the machine has nuanced audio. Nuanced audio means you can tell something about the target by the audio's sound and length of tone. Sorry to inform you a V3i just don't do that compared to a Makro Racer with small OOR coil installed even when the V3i has the 4x6 shooter coil. I've listened to both, no comparsion Racer's audio better. An XP Deus audio is better too. The etrac is as well as long as it's over a high conductor.
I've ran most of the flagships- An I still have them all except guess which one???? And now you know why.
If the audio was more nuanced on the V3i and it wasn't so prone to EMI I'd probably still have it. And if a better stock coil 10/11" would have been offered. 10 DD coil is pp in my book. And there are better choices currently IMO; especially for the $$$$.

What I find interesting is that when I say "visual" what enter's most peoples mind is VDI. The power of the V3 isn't in the VDI. The magic of the V3 isn't in the VDI or even the multiple frequency aspect or even the ability to see the dominate frequency or even in the tone id, though tone id when set up right can be a help to catch your attention.

The power of the V3 is in the signagraph. And when I say signagraph I'm not talking the multigraph spectragraph. I' taking the single signagraph that can be used with or without the three frequency modes. When the signagraph is properly configured you can see all sorts of things about a target. You can see the ramp up, peak or peaks and the ramp down. Stuff that you could hear in an analog unit, you can SEE with the V3. You can see shape, you can eeven see tilt. but this stuff is all hidden in down in the expert menu. And it doesn't air test properly. It only shows properly on targets in place, in the dirt. So you can't air test targets that share a peak VDI number and see the differences. But you can when they are undisturbed in the dirt.

When you set it up, you set up with a single eye toward the signagraph. Everything is set up because of how it effects the signagraph.

The signagraph is a histograph that counts VDI numbers and puts them into buckets or bars. You may be familar with the DFX. The bucket/bar resolution of the DFX signagraph bars is 7 TID numbers. That means that there is a spread of 7 VDI numbers that fit inside one bar of the signagraph. The V3 defaults to this same resolution. But the V3 allows you to change this resolution. You can create buckets of 1 VDI number per bar, or 2 VDI numbers per bar or 3 numbers per bar, or as high as 14 numbers per bar if you wanted to. Every sweep over the target produces VDI numbers over the whole target. The VDI number displayed at the top of the screen is just the peak number. But the histograph works by collecting them all and then displaying them based upon how you have it configured. Everytime a VDI number is received it is placed in a bucket (or bar). Short bars have low counts of VDI numbers. Tall bars have high counts of VDI numbers.

Its a lot like the Analyze screen, only with bars. It communicates more because you not only see what bars are there, but you also get to see what bars (VDI numbers) are missing.

Rings have a nice tight signagraph. Very little, if any ramping on either side of the peak. More so than even coins give because of their shape and mass. You take the signagraph and then look at the analyze display and put the two together.

You can use multifrequency modes, like corrolate with some span adjustment to do some pre- visual discrmination work, or you can go best data. Or go single freq and normalization off to increase the spread/range of the signagraph.

You can adjust the audio to do the same thing in your ears. Stutter means a lot of ramping. Single tones mean minor ramping.

All there. A whole new language.

Just doesn't air test well so it stays hidden.

HH
Mike

I think whites problem with the V3 was that people wanted to text her to tell them in simple language but was down there When configured do you want that sort of information the V3 are you is an impressive as depth and various other things.

Instead of what people wanted whites gave us a laboratory test instrument or an oscilloscope. If you're a dedicated practitioner you can extract all kinds of information, but none of it is either obvious to set up or obvious to interpret.

The job to be done of the top-of-the-line metal detector turned out to be find what I want find it quickly find it easily find it for me. The V3 I doesn't do that job unless you invest in a relatively enormous amount of time and energy into configuring it to do exactly that job for what you want.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Mike Hillis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I find interesting is that when I say
> "visual" what enter's most peoples mind is VDI.
> The power of the V3 isn't in the VDI. The magic
> of the V3 isn't in the VDI or even the multiple
> frequency aspect or even the ability to see the
> dominate frequency or even in the tone id, though
> tone id when set up right can be a help to catch
> your attention.
>
> The power of the V3 is in the signagraph. And
> when I say signagraph I'm not talking the
> multigraph spectragraph. I' taking the single
> signagraph that can be used with or without the
> three frequency modes. When the signagraph is
> properly configured you can see all sorts of
> things about a target. You can see the ramp up,
> peak or peaks and the ramp down. Stuff that you
> could hear in an analog unit, you can SEE with the
> V3. You can see shape, you can eeven see tilt.
> but this stuff is all hidden in down in the expert
> menu. And it doesn't air test properly. It only
> shows properly on targets in place, in the dirt.
> So you can't air test targets that share a peak
> VDI number and see the differences. But you can
> when they are undisturbed in the dirt.
>
> When you set it up, you set up with a single eye
> toward the signagraph. Everything is set up
> because of how it effects the signagraph.
>
> The signagraph is a histograph that counts VDI
> numbers and puts them into buckets or bars. You
> may be familar with the DFX. The bucket/bar
> resolution of the DFX signagraph bars is 7 TID
> numbers. That means that there is a spread of 7
> VDI numbers that fit inside one bar of the
> signagraph. The V3 defaults to this same
> resolution. But the V3 allows you to change this
> resolution. You can create buckets of 1 VDI
> number per bar, or 2 VDI numbers per bar or 3
> numbers per bar, or as high as 14 numbers per bar
> if you wanted to. Every sweep over the target
> produces VDI numbers over the whole target. The
> VDI number displayed at the top of the screen is
> just the peak number. But the histograph works by
> collecting them all and then displaying them based
> upon how you have it configured. Everytime a VDI
> number is received it is placed in a bucket (or
> bar). Short bars have low counts of VDI numbers.
> Tall bars have high counts of VDI numbers.
>
> Its a lot like the Analyze screen, only with bars.
> It communicates more because you not only see what
> bars are there, but you also get to see what bars
> (VDI numbers) are missing.
>
> Rings have a nice tight signagraph. Very little,
> if any ramping on either side of the peak. More
> so than even coins give because of their shape and
> mass. You take the signagraph and then look at
> the analyze display and put the two together.
>
> You can use multifrequency modes, like corrolate
> with some span adjustment to do some pre- visual
> discrmination work, or you can go best data. Or
> go single freq and normalization off to increase
> the spread/range of the signagraph.
>
> You can adjust the audio to do the same thing in
> your ears. Stutter means a lot of ramping.
> Single tones mean minor ramping.
>
> All there. A whole new language.
>
> Just doesn't air test well so it stays hidden.
>
> HH
> Mike

That explains why the audio /tone on a ring is extremely defined/short clean sounded as compared to targets of strange distorted shapes

Tom Slick has a fascinating program he use's with the Bigfoot coil to dig gold rings among pull tabs. The word must be out as a NOS Bigfoot coil on the bay is up to 476.00 with 3 days to go! He says it won't work with stock coil as Bigfoot ups the numbers on Third Freq.as it was made for the dual Freq. DFX?

My V3i and Bigfoot Coil information is on the Findmall V3i forum. Go back to when the V3 changed to V3i.

When using the Bigfoot coil, the low and medium freq respond correctly. The high freq responds gives VDI number that is three times higher. A nickel that normally reads as 18, will read as 18x3 = 54 with the bigfoot coil. Once you know what is going on you can drive the Bigfoot on the V3 just as good as you can on the DFX.

I keep thinking someone will start making figure 8 coils again someday or least a DD in that size. So far no go.

HH
Mike

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I'm waiting for someone to tell me what a
> gold ring looks like and sounds like vs pull
> tabs/nickels/small can slaw.
> Can't be VDI.
> Can't be dominant frequency.
>
> So what is it???
>
> BTW, I do have some beach front property in Az for
> sale is someone is interested.

This is pretty much spot on. I dig gold on pretty much every outing now, and most of the gold I dig is fairly small women's jewelry. While it is true that some big round gold like men's wedding bands or class rings can definately be distinguished from can slaw/pulltabs via audio response, they are few and far between in gold finds. The easiest way to find gold(at least for me) is searching sports fields that have been pounded by detectorists. They get the change and some junk out of the way, and leave behind most of the pull tabs and can slaw. I go in, dig all but iron, and hit one piece of gold for every 50-100 pieces of aluminum junk. It's a ton more work than cherry picking, but is also way more productive. Just my experience....

qwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I guess I'm waiting for someone to tell me what
> a
> > gold ring looks like and sounds like vs pull
> > tabs/nickels/small can slaw.
> > Can't be VDI.
> > Can't be dominant frequency.
> >
> > So what is it???
> >
> > BTW, I do have some beach front property in Az
> for
> > sale is someone is interested.
>
> This is pretty much spot on. I dig gold on pretty
> much every outing now, and most of the gold I dig
> is fairly small women's jewelry. While it is true
> that some big round gold like men's wedding bands
> or class rings can definately be distinguished
> from can slaw/pulltabs via audio response, they
> are few and far between in gold finds. The easiest
> way to find gold(at least for me) is searching
> sports fields that have been pounded by
> detectorists. They get the change and some junk
> out of the way, and leave behind most of the pull
> tabs and can slaw. I go in, dig all but iron, and
> hit one piece of gold for every 50-100 pieces of
> aluminum junk. It's a ton more work than cherry
> picking, but is also way more productive. Just my
> experience....

What detector and coil set up are you using? I just bought a Bigfoot coil for my XL-PRO for the same reason as I have a ton of newer soccer fields in my area. The rub is my XL-PRO has the Tone I.D. Modification so I have 4 Tones to cherry pick from if I prefer or if trash isn't bad just pop out targets quick that my pinpointer will hit on. I figure this way I can cover a lot of ground fast. Also the XL-PRO is a 4 filter analog that is at its best in open areas with a fast sweep speed so it is the perfect set up with the Bigfoot coil in this type of detecting. IMHO.

Here's what I'd like to see. Let one of the so called experts go to 5 different sports fields and hunt 8 hours each. Let them count the number of holes dug vs gold found. For the targets they examine and walk away from let someone dig them anyway just to see what it is.

Go to 5 different beaches and again hunt for 8 hours. And again for every target they examine and walk away from let someone dig anyway to see.

When all is said and done. Then we would have a I Think a good idea of what is going on from a percentage standpoint for gold detected vs missed.

If for example the expert V3i user can correctly identify even 20 percent correct of signals detected and evaluated and a dig me decision is made this would be significant. And the public would put down what they are using to hunt gold jewelry and buy a V3i. I would suspect all minelab users would go white's. And a waterproof V3i would be a HOOOOOOT seller.

I can find gold jewelry with a lot of machines. The real question is how many holes do I have to dig???????

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's what I'd like to see. Let one of the so
> called experts go to 5 different sports fields and
> hunt 8 hours each. Let them count the number of
> holes dug vs gold found. For the targets they
> examine and walk away from let someone dig them
> anyway just to see what it is.
>
> Go to 5 different beaches and again hunt for 8
> hours. And again for every target they examine
> and walk away from let someone dig anyway to see.
>
> When all is said and done. Then we would have a I
> Think a good idea of what is going on from a
> percentage standpoint for gold detected vs missed.
>
>
> If for example the expert V3i user can correctly
> identify even 20 percent correct of signals
> detected and evaluated and a dig me decision is
> made this would be significant. And the public
> would put down what they are using to hunt gold
> jewelry and buy a V3i. I would suspect all
> minelab users would go white's. And a waterproof
> V3i would be a HOOOOOOT seller.
>
> I can find gold jewelry with a lot of machines.
> The real question is how many holes do I have to
> dig???????


With a properly configured V3i you will definitely dig less trash V/s gold .
I found 6 gold rings last year beach combing and knew what they were before I scouped the sand.
Will you find all the gold - definitely not
Will you dig some trash - definitely- but not nowhere as much as with other available machines.
That said you should go see what's popular at the beaches and why- results maybe?
I have some fellow club members that frequent beaches regularly and we are all concencuous on the performance capabilities of the whites machine.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> qwk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tnsharpshooter Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I guess I'm waiting for someone to tell me
> what
> > a
> > > gold ring looks like and sounds like vs pull
> > > tabs/nickels/small can slaw.
> > > Can't be VDI.
> > > Can't be dominant frequency.
> > >
> > > So what is it???
> > >
> > > BTW, I do have some beach front property in
> Az
> > for
> > > sale is someone is interested.
> >
> > This is pretty much spot on. I dig gold on
> pretty
> > much every outing now, and most of the gold I
> dig
> > is fairly small women's jewelry. While it is
> true
> > that some big round gold like men's wedding
> bands
> > or class rings can definately be distinguished
> > from can slaw/pulltabs via audio response, they
> > are few and far between in gold finds. The
> easiest
> > way to find gold(at least for me) is searching
> > sports fields that have been pounded by
> > detectorists. They get the change and some junk
> > out of the way, and leave behind most of the
> pull
> > tabs and can slaw. I go in, dig all but iron,
> and
> > hit one piece of gold for every 50-100 pieces
> of
> > aluminum junk. It's a ton more work than cherry
> > picking, but is also way more productive. Just
> my
> > experience....
>
> What detector and coil set up are you using? I
> just bought a Bigfoot coil for my XL-PRO for the
> same reason as I have a ton of newer soccer fields
> in my area. The rub is my XL-PRO has the Tone I.D.
> Modification so I have 4 Tones to cherry pick from
> if I prefer or if trash isn't bad just pop out
> targets quick that my pinpointer will hit on. I
> figure this way I can cover a lot of ground fast.
> Also the XL-PRO is a 4 filter analog that is at
> its best in open areas with a fast sweep speed so
> it is the perfect set up with the Bigfoot coil in
> this type of detecting. IMHO.

F-75 with 11" coil. I hunt in all metal mode only.