CZ-3D - A Canadian perspective

I've got approximately 30hrs of intense hunting under my belt with the CZ-3D so far on top of 100's of hrs on my F4 and Tesoro Compadre. Still alot to learn but I feel that I'm able to offer a bit of a different perspective on the CZ-3D, which may also be valid for other machines with regards to the detectability of Cdn. clad.

The CZ-3D was designed with special consideration given to older coins and nickels that would normally ID as mid-tone on other machines and provides the hunter with an opportunity to become less fatigued by digging all of the mid-tones. It also incorporates a 4th tone for foil...which if I'm not mistake was done by Tom because of the high percentage of gold rings which fall in that target range.

The primary reason I decided to purchase the CZ-3D was more for the CZ performance record and had I found a CZ5, CZ6a etc it's quite possible I would have purchased on of those units instead. My reasoning is simple. In Canada, there are very few OLD coins that will ID anywhere but high with the exception of nickels. Important to note that none of my comments regarding Canadian coins reference anything minted 2000 or after.

The interesting discovery I've made while using the CZ-3D is that Canadian nickels are composed of entirely different metals than US nickels. US nickels have always been made using a 75% Nickel/25% Copper. This makes it relatively easy for a detector to be tuned so that it has a relatively narrow window and enabled Tom to design the 3D to ID nickels with a high tone. In Canada, however, there was only one year in which the Canadian nickel was the same as the US nickel. This renders the ability for the 3D to ID nickels as High tone targets useless North of the border. Here's a chart showing the history of Canadian nickel compositions:

1858-1919 92.5% Silver, 7.5% Copper
1920-1921 80% Silver, 20% Copper
1922-1942 99.9% Nickel
1942-1943 88% Copper, 12% Zinc
1944-1945 Chrome-plated steel
1946-1951 99.9% Nickel
1951-1954 Chrom-plated steel
1955-1962 99.9% Nickel
1963-1981 99.9% Nickel
1982-1999 75% Copper, 25% nickel
2000-pres. 94.5% Steel, 3.5% copper, 2% Nickel plating

Our other coins also varied considerabley in composition throughout the years and present some rather unique challenges for the "modern" coin hunter. Bascially if you Disc Iron out you are passing up 10 years of coin drops as pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters all have steel cores. The compensating factor for us in Canada is that while most of us consciously decide not to dig the newer clad because of the steel content, we do dig a relatively large number of one dollar and two dollar coins which luckily still have enough non-ferrous metals in them to ring high tone on most detectors. Gotta love one and two dollar coins!

I digress...

As you can see from the above chart, the only years that Canadian nickels were composed of the same ratio of copper and nickel was from 1982-1999...a very narrow window of time and unfortuneately a far to modern a window for these minted dates of Canadian nickels to be very high on the scale of desirability. Most if not all Canadian coins with any appreciable amount of silver content will read high tone on most machines...depending of course on soil conditions so eliminating these silver bearing nickels from consideration for the purpose of this topic, I'd have to say that nickels from 1921 up to 1962 would be the most popular nickels from a collectors stand point and the majority of nickels minted during this time period were composed of 99.9% Nickel. I can tell you with 100% certainty that these pure nickels will NOT register as High tone on a CZ-3D or any other detector for that matter.

So...what does this mean? Does this render the CZ-3D useless in Canada? HARDLY!!! It simply means that assuming a hunter is using a properly tuned CZ-3D in Canada that he'll likely dig more trash than his American counterpart if nickels are an objective. The CZ-3D still performs wonderfully at the beach...wet and dry...has great depth and very good discrimination. I personally really like the 4th tone for foil as well.

Tom...I had suggested the possibility of having you tweak/tune my CZ-3D but had mentioned the possible futility of doing so considering the varied composition of Cdn. nickels but seeing as most of the desireable nickels here in Canada are composed of 99.9% nickel I'm thinking that perhaps giving you an opportunity to tweak my machine might of some benefit...but only if you could have these nickels ID as nickels on the meter and register as a High tone target. It would be more of a novelty to have a CZ-3D tuned specifically for Cdn. nickels than anything and I'm uncertain as to whether or not doing so would mean the inclusing of non-desireable targets in the same window which would negate the benefit of doing anything other than tuning the machine to your already established specifications.

I will likely send you my CZ-3D along with several Cdn. pure nickels of different years so play with sometime over the winter.

Again..I digress...

Due to the CZ-3D's inability to correctly ID Cdn. nickels I've found myself hunting in Salt mode quite frequently to avoid the distraction of pull tabs etc IDng as high tone in Enhanced mode. Is this impeding the performance of my 3D by any significant amount? I'm speaking about in-land coin shooting only here...in sports fields and similiar areas where there is a large amount of trash. Enhanced mode in these areas is widely known to create problems when trash is present and understandeably so. Considering the Cdn. nickel issue is Enhanced mode of any real benefit to Cdn. hunters? I'm not aware of many desireable/old Cdn. coins (other than nickels) that register as Mid tones so I'm not sure Enhanced mode is of any advantage except for relatively small depth gains as compared to running in Salt mode. Depth too is something I haven't seemed to require here in Nova Scotia as even VERY old coins are regularly found at depths of less than 8" which the CZ-3D seems to handle with ease.

Re-tuning a CZ-3D to specifically to address the Cdn. nickel issue and to perhaps tweak it further to prevent trash items from ID'ng high tone when in Enhanced mode would be a fantastic accomplishment in my opinion and I'd certainly enjoy having a machine tuned to perform with these characteristics. The big question as mentioned above is whether or not trash would climb into the 99.9% nickel "window" which would defeat the purpose and negate any advantage of doing so.

I wonder if any consideration has ever been given to the unique characteristics of Cdn. coins versus American coins when coming up with new designs. I know that there are a lot of metal detectorists in Canada that would jump at the opportunity to buy a machine tuned with Cdn. coin composition (specifically nickels) taken into considertation.

Not much we can up North as far as the new steel core clad is concerned other than dig 'em all..at least not for now.

Regardless, I like my 3D and until somebody designs a machine that can address the challenges of Cdn. coins I'll likely be swingin' the 3D for several years to come.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 08:27PM by JeffNS.

Jeff,

Very interesting post. I believe most all CZ's ID USA clad nickels as high tone. The meter will peg to the nickel symbol, but still hit high tone. At least they do on my 6a's and CZ20 and the 3D I had. The advantage the 3D gives in enhanced mode is older USA nickels like corroded Buffalo's, Shield and 'V' nickels, that would ID as mid tone on a regular CZ, would ID as high tone on the 3D. Unfortunately, Canadian coinage is made up of different metals.

It was an eye opener years ago when I read a post about Canadian hunters who could not use some of the Minelabs because they nulled over certain Canadian coins in discriminate mode !

I still think you have one of the best all around units on the planet, and it's great to see you figuring things out. And the possibility of getting the unit tuned for Canadian coinage is a great idea. I hope that can happen.

I have a few Canadian nickels and I am going to see how they ID as on my CZ's as well as my DFX and XL-Pro. Now you got me thinking !

And now that the UPS guy just delivered my Gold Bug...will check em out on that too !

John...when you test your Cdn. nickels, pay particular attention to the metal composition of the years you use. the only Cdn. nickel that should Id as a regular US nickel (and I haven't confirmed this myself yet) is 1982-1999. Also...mass of this range of nickels is 4.6g with a diameter of 21.2mm as compared to a similarly aged US nickel which has a mass of 5g and the same diameter of 21.2mm. It will be interesting to see if the difference of .4g makes a difference with the ID.

I'm not at all complaining about my 3D John...I'm simply suggesting that the CZ3D...tuned per normal specifications...provides no advantage over a CZ5 or CZ6a EXCEPT for the fact that it has a 4th tone for foil...in Canada. No machine handles Cdn. coins in the same way as US coins...unless they're made of the same metals and have the same size and mass. That's not to say we cannot "learn" how to interperet a given machine to compensate for this factor(s). Something else that's perhaps prevelant amongst teh CZ series are the nuances within each of the 3 or in the case of the 3D...four tones. I'm certain it would take years to develop that type of aural acuity but I'm sure Tom and perhaps you can attest to that statement and it's validity. I find that alot of the multi tone digital machines lack those variances within each of the tones.

Not knowing anything about the process involved in the tuning process of a metal detector (I envision oscilloscopes and the like) I cannot even begin to hazard a guess as to whether a CZ3D can indeed be re-tuned to do with Cdn. Nickels (1921-1962 - 99.9% Nickel) what it does with it's American counterpart. If he can then a huge bonus for me...and perhaps some more well deserved bragging rights for Tom. If he can't then the worst thing that can happen is I have a re-tuned "by Tom" CZ3D which perform right up there with the best of them and in some situations trumps 'em all metal detector. No John...not unhappy at all with my 3D.

Jeff...you must have read my mind because I was going to ask you what particular years should I be looking for. I believe I have a few older Canadian nickels, and will shoot off the years to you so you can validate prior to me testing. Gonna look at my foreign coin stash in a bit.

I agree the 3D in enhanced mode is most optimal for older US coins.

Jeff,

I found 2 Canadian nickels (1960 and 1964) and tested them on my CZ6a. They both hit as mid tone. I then proceeded to test them on the following units ( the nickels were on the surface but I think I may bury one. All coils were about 3-4 inches away from the target):

DFX - In coin and jewelry mode, stock setting, 5.3 inch coil, the audio was broken and the ID ranged fro, 31-61. Wasn't a very good signal in either tone or visual ID. I am going to re-tes with higher/better settings than the stock program.

XL-Pro 5.3 inch coil - In GEB/Disc mode, the ID was broken but continuously hitting, and the needle always read Penny/Dime. In GEB/Sat mode, the audio was much cleaner and smoother...needle still read Penny/Dime.

Baron Cointrax II with 10 inch coil - Great audio and LED hit on Zinc penny or 10 cents

Gold Bug with 11 inch DD coil - great audio and ID was between 78 and 83 depending on depth (ie, how far the coil was away from the target). I also tested the targets below:

US nickel - 58,
Square pull tab -58
Small piece of balled up foil about dime size - 44-45
Bent bottle cap - 72-75
1/8 oz. fishing sinker - 66-67

Seems like the Gold Bug may be the ticket for those Canadian nickels !

John

Interesting results. I figured the CZ6a would ID as mid tone...precisely where they ID on my CD and F4. It appears that for the most part...CZ6a excluded...that these 99.9% nickel nickels hit fairly high on most of your detectors...especially the Gold Bug which gave a 58 for the US and 78-83 for the Cdn nickel. Assuming a linear response scenario, it might be very difficult for Tom to retune a CZ3D to bring these Cdn. nickels into the current high tone nickel slot...my concern being letting other "undesireable" targets come in through the window so to speak.

I wonder if the Gold Bug reads consistently high TID values for other common targets as compared to other units. I've often wondered about TID values and whether or not they are standardized from one manufacturer/unit to another.

In non trashy sites when digging all mid & high tones...it's a moot point but when in trashy areas...nickels ID'ng as high tone targets would be sweet. I know that many more nickels are left behind by hunters more than any other coin and I'd like to be able to demonstrate this fact but am not particularly interested in digging all of the pull tabs along the way...unless of course my objective is gold on the beach. Depends entirely on the area you're hunting and your personal objectives.

Thanks for doing this John. Be interesting to hear what Tom has to say...where is the boy anyway? Probably busy with some top secret NASA stuff or perhaps enjoying a well deserved vacation...detecting some virgin ground somewhere.

Jeff,

Below is what I posted on another forum regarding a short test of the Gold Bug in my test garden. Bottom line is, it ID's silver and copper high. Also, just to let you know, when testing the Canadian nickels and the other test targets, my gain was about 1/2...about 55 so I wasn't running wide open. Tell you what though, in my yard I had the gain at 100 ( max ) and there was no interfence or erratic opertation with it.



Just got my new Gold Bug SE with both coils. Got it from Mr. Bill, and before he sent it to me, sent it back to FT to make sure all was well, and tested it prior to sending it off to me. Thanks Bill as I appreciate that very much.

Just got back from the yard for some quick testing with both coils. I have several coins buried at different depths, the hardest being a 10+ inch clad quarter, a 8 inch silver dime and an 8 inch, pretty beat up nickel next to iron. I also have a silver 1/2 dollar on edge at 7 inches, a clad dime a 6 inches and a zinc penny at 6 inches.

The machine is super easy to set up. Put it in all metal, ground balanced, switched to discrim setting of 41, gain at 90. I could run it at 100 but wanted to test not quite at full speed.

The 5 inch coil hit every target except the deep quarter. It ID'd in the high 80's the silver dime and 1/2 dollar at all angles, the zinc penny at 76, and hit the nickel by far the loudest ( I do like the modulated audio as the deeper coins were softer...the nickel was LOUD until I raised the coil about 3-4 inches off the ground). Nickel ID'd at 56 or so.

I also tested an silver 8 Reale, which is just like a silver dollar, laying on the ground. Hit it at 1 inch all the way up to 10 inches ID'ing in the 90's.

FT is not pulling any punches when they state the clad and silver will not hit as hard as gold and nickels...the gold items I tested on the surface as well as the buried nickel were much louder and hit harder. That's a GOOD THING because that is the reason I bought it.

With the 11 inch DD, ALL coins were ID'd properly and hit. The 10+ inch quarter was a soft tick but it was a repeatable hit and was ID'ing in the high 80's. The 11 inch coil went deeper for sure.

Ground balancing was very easy, and when attaining a smooth threshold, the gb and ground phase numbers were pretty equal at about 81.2-82. The Fe reading was mostly reading 1 or 2 bars.

What is very cool about the all metal mode, that I found so far ( bear in mind this was a 1/2 hour test) is that when sweeping over ground only, ie, no targets, the ground balance number and phase number stay pretty close to each other. When a target is hit, the ground balance number drops, the phase stays the same and you can then look at the arc's 3 bars to determine what the target may be. All the silver and clad coins had the ground balance number drop into the 50's but the 3 bar arc was in the 85-90 range. For the nickel, the ground balance number dropped into the 30's but the 3 bar arc indicator was in the 50-55 range. Pretty cool stuff.

Can't wait to test more targets and then take it out into the field. From initial testing alone, with the easy use, the 2 tone ID, light weight and ability to hit hard on the low conductors I tested ( in addition to the nickel, I tested a few small gold pendants and a gold filling I found awhile back...surface only as I do not have them buried).

Still have to take it out into the field, and may do a tot lot hunt with the small coil as it's maiden voyage...but the beach is where I really want to see what happens.

Jeff,

Forget the nickels I think I just found info on a coin that you should be able to detect, even with a broken detector! Story in current W&E Treasure magazine about a Canadian Maple Leaf gold coin minted in 2007 but recently sold. The coin is 21 inches in diameter and weighs 220 pounds and is called a million dollar coin but sold for 4 million dollars.

I also have a 3D and like all CZ's they would ring in on the large target trash alert and you would walk on by!!! Wouldn't you just hate it if you found out later what you passed up?

If you Google 2007 gold Canadian coin there is a lot of stories about it and a picture of a woman displaying it, which gives you a real perception of what it is!

Wally....I've seen pictures of that coin. Only one in circulation though. One can always hope the owner may drop it some day and that it will sink out of reach of a passer by until I get my coil over it!

Jeff,

What does the 'nickel of desire' ID as.....on the CZ-3D? I presume 'square tab'.

.......Nice detailed report.

Tom,

The 99.9% nickel nickels I'm targeting ID as square tab in Enhanced mode. Interestingly enough when I switch to Salt mode they ID as High tone ZN which is a good thing as I believe I can now be fairly confident that if I get a Mid tone Square tab ID in Enhanced that reads High tone ZN in Salt that there's a high probability of the target being a Nickel. Be nice if I didn't have to conduct this type of target verification and could rely soley on the tone for the most part...nonetheless this is an accomplishment. I forsee my retrieval rate for nickels to be increasing on future outings.

Am I correct in assuming therein lay a problem with tweaking the 3D to ID the 'nickel of desire' as a High tone target in Enhanced mode in that it will drag square tabs along with it?

First, I'm perplexed that the nickel ID's as a Zinc Penny in the 'salt' mode. It should be the exact opposite; whereby the nickel should be more apt to ID as 'Zinc Penny' whilst in 'enhanced' mode. Something is incongruent............or out-of-calibration.

Secondly; you may have already achieved your goal.........allbeit......you may need to run the unit in the 'salt' mode..........aiding you in the recovery of a certain bandwidth conductivity of nickels..........and.........possibly leaving aluminum square-tabs behind (mid-tone).

True..........I designed the icon window(s) bandwidth calibration set-points of the CZ-3D (primarily) targeted for old U.S. coinage; yet, well knowing that it'll help aid other countries with quite a bit of their coins; yet, not to the order-of-magnitude of U.S. coinage.

Are you certain of the 'salt' and 'enhanced' mode ID of nickels? I'm still scratching my head.

Tom...I re-tested the 'nickels of desire' again to confirm my initial report that they ID as square tab mid tone in Enhanced mode and id as Zn penny hi-tone in Salt and same results. Are you certain that a nickel composed of 99.9% nickel should be the other way around? Remember...these particular nickels are NOT the same metal composition of US nickels which are 75% Copper, 25% nickel.

I just performed air tests using two older Buffalo US nickels I borrowed...one 1927 one 1928. Basic settings GB 10, Disc 0, Sens 5, Vol 4. In both Salt & Enhanced mode these targets id as nickels hi-tone. These are the only US nickels I had available for testing. Do these results make sense to you or do you still think the unit may be out-of-calibration...or perhaps it's a coil problem?? I would think that US Buffalo nickels that Id as nickel hi-tone in both modes is a good thing but that does not mean it's calibrated as per your specifications.

I also re-selected 5 Cdn. Nickels of various years...all composed of 99.9% nickel. All 5 targets ID as Zn penny hi-tone in Salt mode and Square tab mid-tone in Enhanced. Please keep in mind that my 'real world' hunts have also returned the same results.

I do have a 5" coil that I could use to conduct some additional air-test if you think that may assist you in evaluating this 'head scratching' situation. I believe I read somewhere that the 5" coil may cause mis-identification so it may not be of any use to perform these tests using this coil.

My tests using the Cdn. 99.9% nickel nickels suggest Salt mode is certainly my best option in order to accurately ID these particular targets...at least until I have a chance to send my 3D to you this winter to tweak a bit. If you were able to tune it to ID these nickels as nickel hi-tone great....if not then it might be best left alone??

Your 'salt' calibration......and your 'enhanced' calibration set-points are reversed! The 'enhanced' mode should ID those nickels as 'zinc/high-tone'. This would also allow a bit better depth.....vs......'salt' mode......especially on nickels. Almost a moot point........as you at least have a option...allowing you to acquire those nickels-of-interest.

Tom...now I'm scratching my head. How could the unit have it's calibration set-points reversed? Could a faulty coil return these same results? Yes...I have an option and appear to be learning this 'unique' CZ3D and as such this particular anomoly doesn't really present a handicap in my detecting abilities...but...it would be nice if the unit did at least operate as intended. Strange.

This particular detector was originally owned by David Keene who had corresponded with you about a possible out-of-calibration issue but I am uncertain whether or not he had ever sent it to you to be re-tuned. The ownership then passed on to John (Therover61) who had reported that it functioned as per spec and now I own it. I'm a bit perplexed as to how the unit has somehow gone adrift to such a degree as to suggest set-points are reversed somehow.

Two line recap of results:

Buffalo nickels ID as nickel hi-tone both modes
Cdn. 99.9% nickel nickels ID as Sq.tab mid tone in Ehnanced mode & Zn hi-tone in Salt mode.

Would a 'properly' tuned CZ3D ID the Buffalo nickels as Mid tone in Salt mode and Hi tone in Enhanced? Moot point perhaps considering my chances of finding many of these in Canada are slim but curious just the same.

Have you actually performed a test using a Cdn. 99.9% nickel nickel on any of your machines? I'm simply not sure I understand why you seem so certain that the ID of these nickels should be the reverse of what I've reported.

Is my assumption lower conductivity targets should read lower in Salt and higher in Ehanced mode a correct assumption then? If so...then I can see why the Cdn. nickel situation may seem reversed to you.

Perhaps the actual mode switch has been physically reversed in error by somebody? Is there some way (without dismantling the unit) I can test to determine if this is the case. I could see this happening if anybody had attempted a repair to the mode switch at some point in the units lifetime and had inadvertently connected it incorrectly. Perhaps purchasing a 10kt gold cross as a test object and performing the test you recommend in Salt 101 thread would help identify if this is the case...my reasoning being that if in fact the switch has been phyiscally reversed somehow then I should report greater detectability of the 10kt gold cross whilst in Salt mode and less in Enhanced mode.

If I were to perform tests using the buffalo nickels and the Cdn. 'nickels of desire' on my Fisher F4 and reported the TDI#'s would that help to confirm or dispute the possible set-point reversal and/or the possibility of it being out-of-calibration? I don't know how each of the 7 icon windows on the 3D relate to a particular range of TDI#'s on an F4 or any other TDI machine but certainly don't mind conducting more thorough tests.

Tom. I do sincerely appreciate you taking an interest in this situation. Thank you.

Jeff,

You and I are both scratching our heads. Yes, in 'salt' mode....targets will ID lower. 'Enhanced' mode.....targets (in general) will ID higher. Yes, a small low conductor.....like a open-hoop gold earring......or gold cross will certainly let you know which mode is more sensitive.........letting you know if switch is wired improperly. Doubtful it's a coil problem.

Your buffalo nickel.... salt vs. enhanced ID's........primarily validates correct/near-correct calibration for the nickel conductivity window. Your 99.9% nickel-composition coin.........would expose 'zinc window' calibration correctness/anomalies. And it sounds like your 'salt' window (zinc calibration set-point) is out of calibration.........but ..........to YOUR Canadian advantage! I would rather see this in the 'enhance' side of the house......vs.......'salt' mode.

And calibration set-points just simply rarely drift..........if ever. I have only witnessed a pair of CZ's 'drift'. One was dropped/submerged in water......and the other was involved in a bad auto accident. Extraordinary circumstances.

If only you had a U.S. Half Eagle $5.00 gold coin.........to check salt vs. enhanced ID. This would determine the suspect ID calib set-point. I am also wondering.................if I had this unit sent to me................was there a out-of-the-norm request for a extenuating circumstance 'specialty' calibration.

Tom...your message above states "Your buffalo nickel.... salt vs. enhanced ID's........primarily validates correct/near-correct calibration for the nickel conductivity window."

I thought that a buffalo nickel typically read mid-tone in Salt mode and high-tone in Ehnanced mode using a 'properly' tuned CZ3D. Having a unit that ID's High-tone in both modes certainly isn't a disadvantage I'm just not sure you realized that there was no ID difference in ID between salt/enhanced mode identification of that target on my CZ3D.

I have to conduct some more in depth and comprehensive testing with the 3D to see if I can identify any other anomolies and specifically attempt to determine whether or not the mode switch has been reversed.

Strangely enough, when I had first conducted your suggested Air Test to determine the maximum distance a US dime could be detected, I was able to attain a distance of approx. 10 1/2" albeit, the signal was VERY weak. I conducted the same test again this weekend and wasn't able to attain the same distance in either Enhanced of Salt mode. I had to bump up the sensitivity to 6 in order to achieve that result.

I'm going to contact a local coin dealer to see if they may have a U.S. Half Eagle $5.00 to perform a quick test with.

Have you performed many "out-of-the-norm" specialty calibration requests for CZ machines in the past Tom?

I definitely suspect the CZ3D is in need of adjustment...not that it's creating problems with my ability to detect desireable targets, but having it tuned to at least perform as per original spec would increase my confidence level somewhat which is another important aspect of the hobby. The more confidence you have in a given machine the better IMHO.

I will add to this topic when I've performed some more testing.

If your Buffalo nickel is 'dirt corroded'.......it could very easily ID as a mid-tone in 'salt' mode.....and high tone in 'enhanced' mode. If your nickel has never seen dirt.......it'll probably ID as high-tone in both modes.

Yes..........a half-eagle in the 1870's to 1910's.....would be fine. Even some additional years on both ends would still be fine. Make sure the coin is not stapled (with metal staples) in the normal/usual 2 x 2 cardboard coin holder.

...................Wonder if you encountered a bit of 'silent' EMI....which would give you a bit less performance......when you tried your dime air-test again. Silent interference is hard to discover.

Buffalo's were both clean coins...never seen dirt. That explains High tone ID in both modes.

Will definitely try to source a half eagle for a quick test. Am I correct in assuming a properly tuned CZ3D will ID mid-tone in Salt mode and High tone in Ehanced?

Hmmm...silent EMI. As a matter of fact, my Fisher F4 behaves very badly in my house at times...the F series being very prone to EMI. I do have wireless internet and the usual collection of household electronics and this is certainly a possibility. Next time I'm hunting in a more remote location without possible EMI I'll test it again.

Yes, a Half Eagle will ID as a mid-tone in 'salt' mode...............and high-tone in 'enhanced'. . . . . if correctly tuned.

.......Somewhere on this forum........I wrote about EMI and silent EMI.

Very interesting post , Jeff .
Re your closing statement there is such a machine which has no problem detecting Canadian Clad ,once you learn it .It's the F75 or F75 LTD .
Last year I totalled $1254.94 .My totals were
$2 twonies, 252, $1 loonies 367, 25c 918, 10c 951, Nickels 555, 1c 3159 .this is for information only as there are far better clad hunters in Canada than I am .I have owned a CZ3D in the past and on Canadian coins it did not come close to the F75.

dennis jones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very interesting post , Jeff .
> Re your closing statement there is such a machine
> which has no problem detecting Canadian Clad ,once
> you learn it .It's the F75 or F75 LTD .
> Last year I totalled $1254.94 .My totals were
> $2 twonies, 252, $1 loonies 367, 25c 918, 10c
> 951, Nickels 555, 1c 3159 .this is for
> information only as there are far better clad
> hunters in Canada than I am .I have owned a CZ3D
> in the past and on Canadian coins it did not come
> close to the F75.


Hi Dennis. I'm curious to know what the date range is for the bulk of your quarters, dimes and nickels. I find it difficult to believe that the F75 will ID a post 2000 Cdn. quarter, dime, nickels or pennies as anything but iron or that it will ID post 2000 Quarters, dimes, nickels or pennies atl all. if you Disc out iron Any machine can find iron but not many of us are willing to dig iron signals in our search for coins. I also own a Tesoro Compadre and it does in fact id post 2000 clad even with Iron Disc'd out. It's a 10khz machine...not a depth monster but it is sensitive to the coin's plating suprisingly enough. I just don't favor the single tone. It is the only machine I've seen that will do this so far.

Hi Jeff ,
I get the full range of dates .Post 2000 come in as 6,7 to 11 signals but other indicators are there too in the signal ie it picks up the plating if you know what to look for .Nickels are a little different and take a bit of practice ,can be as high as 93 .

I pity the Country (and detectorists) of where the coins are primarily made out of iron/steel.

I don't own a f75 so cann't comment but I have a cz 6 and a 3d. The CZ is a very good clad machine for Canadian coins.
High tone silver- penny 99%
high tone zinc - dime or soccer spike
high tone nickel- square tab 99%
mid tone square tab(coin killer) if it pinpoints big- quarter, loonie, toonie some nickels.
mid tone foil, if it locks on it's foil if it jumps mid high, always dig
mid tone ring pull- if it locks ignore if it jumps mid or high dig.
low tone- if it gives nice clear signal pin points round and is shallow, always dig. loonie toonie.

Now , STAY OUT OF MY PARK'S AND WE'LL GET ALONG JUST FINE!!!

Turtleman

Tom,
Back in '95 we made a trip to Costa Rica to metal detect. There were 66 of us in the group. We made an agreement with the government to do a beach hunt, on our first day of arrival, using their Colones. The thought being that since their money would be good nowhere else that all that was found would have to be spent there. Their coins were NICKEL PLATED STEEL and the 20 Colones was the size of a silver dollar! The bulk of the detectors were either Fisher CZ's or Whites XLT's. The Fishers were hitting the Colones very well but we had a lot of complaints from XLT's that they couldn't detect the coins at all!!!!!

The hotel we were staying at in the Flamingo Point area was on a very nice Pacific white sand beach. The tour group, once they got the hang of what we were doing, started taking us to other beaches, which were comprised of the evil "Black Sand". I had sold a Minelab Sovereign and bought a CZ20 special for the trip. CZ couldn't tolerate the black sand but as soon as you stepped out into the water the black sand was gone and the detector was stable! The Sovereign would have been the better choice, at least for the black sand.

How much treasure did I find? Nothing at all. The colones would rust away within 20 minutes of hitting the salt in the beach (or so it seemed). The government did not allow us to enter the jungle with detectors so as to preserve their heritage of pre-columbian artifacts. One of the guys in our group that was using a PI found a small statue on the beach that looked quite old and had a good chance of being something good but I'm not sure if he got it out of the country or if he did what he found out about it. I do understand that a few other goodies were found but everyone got closed mouth about any of it.

The trip was magnificient, people friendly and english was spoken nearly everywhere. Ironically the only place we stopped in, where no one spoke english, was a McDonald's burger joint! One of the main newspapers there was an English language. Some Tuna was caught and prepared by the hotel chefs into an absolute feast that cost us about $4.00 each! Oh yeah, I would go again. But not to hunt for Colones that were nothing more than ornate steel washers.

Suncoast Wally

dennis jones Wrote:
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> Hi Jeff ,
> I get the full range of dates .Post 2000 come in
> as 6,7 to 11 signals but other indicators are
> there too in the signal ie it picks up the plating
> if you know what to look for .Nickels are a little
> different and take a bit of practice ,can be as
> high as 93 .


Dennis. Target ID's ranging from 6 to 11 are all in the iron range which is precicely the problem I'm speaking of when discussing post 2000 Cdn. Clad...except Loonies/Twoonies which read high tone. I'm pretty sure there are alot of junk iron items that also fall into your 6 - 11 ID range as well which is the problem. The point I was making was that if you want to be successful in harvesting post 2000 cdn. clad then you'll have to dig a correspondingly high percentage of junk iron items in doing so. Aural fatigue would set in on me and alot of other detectorists by targeting these more modern Cdn coins. Depending on the area you were hunting and assuming a low ratio of iron junk to modern Cdn. Clad was the case then a good strategy would be to dig relatively shallow targets in the 6 - 11 ID range...that would probalby yield favorable results.

I would love to see/use a machine that will correctly ID a modern Cdn. Coin as a desirable/high tone/High ID# target. There just isn't any machine on the market that will do that.

Canadian coin shooters will eventually have no choice but to adapt and start digging those low tone iron targets once the more desireable collectable coins are all cleaned up....and this appears to be happening at an astounding rate. It's becoming quite difficult to find areas which have not been pounded by other detectorists. Deep seeking machines will be a must in order to find targets overlooked by inexperienced detectorists using low performance machines. Permission from private land owners will have to be attained.

As far as clad coinage is concerned, the only advantage Canadians have over our US counterparts...if you can call it an advantage...is the fact that we have one dollar and two dollar coins in circulation at a very high rate and are lost at a very high rate as well. Still...if you were to add up all of the modern Cdn clad (steel core) in the past 10 years it would boggle the mind I'm sure.

I'm waiting for Tom to design a machine that will tell me what coin it is, what country it's from and what year it was minted. :-) C'mon Tom....you can do it! :-)

People would think I was psycho. ((( Oops......too late ))).

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> People would think I was psycho. ((( Oops......too
> late ))).


Just had a vision of you swingin' your machine in one hand...a chainsaw in the other...wearing a hockey mask...would make for an interesting movie.