How do you make the best use of the 5" (OOR) coil on the Makro Racer?

After reading NasaTom's testing with the Nokta Fors Gold Plus, and Tom talking about sitting the unit to 'break up' the rusty nail audio response by setting the machine to a DISC setting (or Mask setting) of 21.........I am inclined to use this same procedure on my Makro Racer with the 5" coil installed. NasaTom, it looks like a phone consultation with you is in order if you still offer that service. I am determined "to go where no man has gone before" in this old home site which sits amid an old camp site and possible skirmish site (according to the finds made by others and myself on the outskirts of the really nail infested area.

Well you can vary your gain, sometimes high gain is good, sometimes lower.
3 tone is easier to hear nonferrous for me in the worst of iron

ID filter setting----10 is pretty good, 5 can pull things sometimes 10 can't.

Coil movement/ wiggles./ hovering all these techniques will come into play

Forget the meter----- listen
When something sounds out a place, investigate/ dig

Pretty straight forward machine to use

Now you can run higher ID filter settings I.e. 23 will get rid of most nails, smaller iron---- but you run the risk of missing targets, as higher than 10 ID filter will for the most part start causing the tone on monferrous target to get short------- eventually shorter and shorter to the point depending on Id filter setting and the detecting scenario (.separation/ unmaaking) that the monferrous near iron disappears.

2 tone will yield more depth and provide a ready signal with vco where you can judge depth of target most times

The key to the worst of sites is patience and proper coil sweep/ handling techniques

In higher mineral soils depth differences between 2 tome and .3 tone more near one another.
The racer will produce.

What works best for me and has really pulled out the goods is 1 disc, 90+ gain, and 3 tone.

I've tried 2-tone, and I get far more keepers with 3-tone. 5 disc and 10 disc are good, but when you go down to 1 disc you'll find all the stuff that 5 & 10 missed ><

hh,
Brian

Thank you, guys! I appreciate the replies. I'll try the ideas that I got from your replies this afternoon at the nail-y location.

I have been doing a little home experimenting. When I wave a 58 cal Minie bullet in front of the coil. it reads between 79 and 81. When I wave a square nail, by itself, in front of the coil, it reads 20.......but as I slowly turn it in my hand, it will read from 14 to 44. When I wavi the bullet AND the square nail in front of the coil, it reads erractically.....but will reach to the 50's. Okay.....now, when I set the DISC to 20....it will silence the nail. And when I wave the bullet and nail (in various positions) in front of the coil, I get mainly numbers in the 50's. Even if I try and keep the nail and the bullet separated by an inch but on the same plane. This is with the new 11 inch coil (with the new coil cover) that I just got from the distributor.
Now, in the ground, bullets generally read in the lower 70's and round balls read in the upper 70's. This in clean, forested ground. I assume that the ground mineralization down-grades (for lack of the correct term) the bullets air-test readings. I already know that air test aren't the best way to do things but in my current situation, it was handy. I am going to install the 5 inch coil and see what plays out. Back in moments with an update. Oh, here's a pic of the new (and I assume, the latest) version of the Racer 11 inch coil. In air test, it will read a dime at 70 sensitivity at 13 inches! But I'm not real sure how 'razor-like' the electromagnetic field is that emanates from the coil. By no means am I saying that I don't like the 11 inch coil. I cannot wait for deer season to close so that I can use it in my Confederate campground scenario......in the woods......with not much trash.
But right now, I am having to satisfy my metal detecting urge with a couple of old homeplaces that sit among, and close to, a major skirmish area. I have noticed that the carpeted floor in the living room has nail lines much like Keith's back deck. I will place a bullet between nails and check the VDI reading. But, so far, it appears that I need to go by hi pitched chirps and signals.
EDIT: 20 minutes later. Well, I was wrong about the 11 inch coil not having a sharp electromagnetic field. I dropped the bullet on floor. Nails everywhere. Carpet nails. Nails that hold the subfloor to the floor joist. And the Racer w/ 11 inch coil hits the bullet everytime. I even ran the DISC to 20 and eliminated the nail noise. The bullet was still picked up from all angles. And I moved the bullet all over the floor. By the way, the bullet read 69 to 71 (like it does in the ground). I am well pleased. Here's a pic of the latest 11 inch coil. I broke the ears off of my last few:


I couldn't capture it in the pic, but the coil cover does not cover the outer edges of the coil as all coil covers that I have ever seen does. This coil cover is ingenious! And it even has slits(drainage ports) in the bottom so that you can wash the coil out without removing the cover.
Anyway, it is already gotten to late to go detect, so I will do some more "nail and bullet" and "nail and button" tests and see what my unit is trying to tell me when afield. Thanks for reading my very very rookie report. But I have got this sneaky feeling that I have been passing over some good targets when I get a reading in the 40's and 50's. I am going to search youtube and see how I can do some 'separation and un-masking' tests. Thanks....and Merry Christmas to all of you. (PS: This new coil is epoxy filled!!!! Under the coil cover is that gray stuff that you see on the AT Pro's)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2015 09:09PM by Kevin B.

Scenario: I laid a three ringer (Minie ball) on the carpet. I realize that there are plenty of nails (flooring, etc etc) under this bullet. Still, I got a reading of 82 (using small 5 OOR coil). Here's what it looks like:

The Racer picked this bullet up with no problem, in spite of the line of nails that lie under the projectile. But then....I placed a square nail by the bullet, but I placed the square nail on a box, effectively elevating the square nail above the bullet. Here's a visual aide:

The Racer with the 5 inch coil will not 'see' this bullet until the nail is 5.5 inches away from the bullet. I am swinging the coil over nail and bullet and trying to keep it on the same plane. I tried three tone as well. Still, no signal from bullet. The VDI stayed on 20 throughout. I tried running the DISC up to 20 and nulling out the nail. I then swung over the pair of test subjects. No signal. Only when I push the nail 5.5 inches away to I start to get a chirp from the bullet. I'm not in the best environment for testing, I'm sure. I left the Gain on 70. (I tried higher gains and lower gains with no difference.)
I MUST be doing something wrong. I am NOT going to blame the machine (yet) because alot of detectorist with far more experience have extolled the sleuthiness of this OOR coil. But in the back of my mind, I am thinking: What have I been missing?.
I am on my way to an old homesite where relics and coins have been found. I will take my time. Circle the signal (if it seems suspicious) and then just dig the blame thing. It's likely only the way to learn.....really learn.....what I am hearing. I will post my findings in this thread upon my return.......be they nails, horseshoes, beenie weenie cans, (beenie weenies must have been a fad back in the day! LOL) This old homeplace has alot of clad coins (and silver too, I hope). Anyway, I cannot understand why the beam would not shoot down and bleep on that bullet when it was, say, 3 inches from that nail. Surely the beam ain't THAT wide!

Kevin you are doing nothing wrong.

There will be test the 5 " coil will pass, and there will be test the stock coil will pass

And there will be test that only one of the coils will pass

And there will be test where both coils will fail.

Lots of reasons why for all the passing and failing of the certain test with the different coils.

I'm not at liberty to explain for a number of reasons,,,I.e. experience, education level and possibly IQ level, or at least explain in the scientific terms as say NASA is capable of doing

But I will say, the Racer, being a 14hkz machine and used with its coils---- Is a top notch detector for pulling nonferrous out of areas laced with iron.

Did you try the same test someplace where there isn't nails also under the bullet? Looks like your test has nails under the bullet and next to it. Just wondering.

The nail is overpowering the bullet Kevin...

In other words the bullet is not strong enough conductively at the depth to overpower the closer nail.

Sort of like a small smudge on a lens.. it distorts everything in the field of view.

bad soil does the same to us!!!!!Signal distortion..


But in real world scenarios things change ..good and bad..

no reason to drop your confidence level of the unit...it works well..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Tom Slick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you try the same test someplace where there
> isn't nails also under the bullet? Looks like your
> test has nails under the bullet and next to it.
> Just wondering.


Not yet. I will dedicate tomorrow (thursday) for that. I will place the bullet in 7 inches of clean ground and then place square nails at various places around, below, and above it. Trying to simulate a real world hunt. I want to see how much down-averaging happens during a co-location event. But mainly, I want to hear how several non-ferrous relics sound when surrounded by square nails and other ferrous debris. Great question. Thanks, and Merry Christmas. kevin

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The nail is overpowering the bullet Kevin...
>
> In other words the bullet is not strong enough
> conductively at the depth to overpower the closer
> nail.
>
> Sort of like a small smudge on a lens.. it
> distorts everything in the field of view.
>
> bad soil does the same to us!!!!!Signal
> distortion..
>
>
> But in real world scenarios things change ..good
> and bad..
>
> no reason to drop your confidence level of the
> unit...it works well..
>
> Keith

Thanks Keith. I'm going to keep hammering away at the trashy sites until after deer season and even beyond. My confidence rises when I realize that I filled up almost two plaques with CW relics with the Fisher F19 and the Makro Racer. The Racer actually made a Calvary site come right back to life for me, last Spring.

Try a Nokta Gold Plus in there Kevin see if the site does not reignite!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla