Another Deus relic hunt 2-5-2016

A very good hunt for me.

Again full tones 0 disc.

I hunted a half acre area--- carpet of nails.

Many times I would sweep the same area as many as 4 times before progressing coil.

Many of these-- the nonferrous targets again read 00 on the meter.

Some of these signals -- more or less educated guesses based on what I heard----- very hard to put into words.

And all hunting done at sens level 94, 18 kHz, reactivity level 3.

The button in the bottom right of pic--- dug from a measured 9.5" deep-- and was actually my best textbook signal of the day--- a honker of a signal, surprised it was so deep based on the signal.
Folks don't sell the Deus short on depth.

And no I 'm not near done with this particular area either.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 10:17PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter, you sure have the handle on the deus in thick iron. I have a question, i know you are running full tones, and the numeric id is 00 at times for your non-ferrous targets, WHAT, is the iron indicator displaying during these times? Solid iron or intermittent as well?

Thanks for posting your method and results,
Tony

Tony_K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter, you sure have the handle on the
> deus in thick iron. I have a question, i know you
> are running full tones, and the numeric id is 00
> at times for your non-ferrous targets, WHAT, is
> the iron indicator displaying during these times?
> Solid iron or intermittent as well?
>
> Thanks for posting your method and results,
> Tony

There are no visual indications you have at your disposal when running full tones!, 0 disc.

Now if you get a tone you can maybe use the horseshoe to gauge depth--- depending on detector settings and target size mainly.

Now allow me to talk a little bit about what you may hear tone wise.

I wrote about this a few weeks ago--- I may need to amend somewhat.

1) you have the nice clean hits--- with Vdi , fairly accurate provided

2) you have good clean hit--- high tone where the target's Vdi is drove upwards-- usually in the 90s

3) you have not so clean hit--- tone is repeatable but coil position sweep speed is critical--- meter may read mid single digits---- don't forget nails/ iron can read mid single digit on meter as well---- but the tone is different on the nonferrous--- tone on ferrous is more blunt sounding

4) you really have no hit--- but you hear a slight rise in tone, static sometimes will accompany, and again coil position, swing speed crucial
This kind of nonferrous target/ response--- this is the one where the Deus is more taxed, and an op is likely at times to dig some iron
But make no mistake it is a gamble an op needs to take.

Many times if you dig targets/ cut plugs and remove on targets identified as #3 and 4 above--- you cannot even hear the target in the plug--- plug has to be broken/ jumbled to move the iron/ iron bits around so Deus will ring with good tone and Vdi

It is very impressive to witness Deus for whatever reason--- lower or reduced coil saturation when in the heavy iron.

The 3 dimensional test done with Deus using nonferrous target and nails where it passes-- and many other detectors fail,,,,this is indeed real-- no fairy tale results.

Now not to demean the Makro Racer-- I have one of those as well.

But IMO Deus is overall better hunter in iron/ nails--- Deus doesn't provide as much high tone false on the ends of nails.

But Makro Racer with small OOR coil--- deserves high respect,,, it can with the small coil see things Deus can't--- but an op will obviously cover far less square footage when used properly vs Deus equipped with 9" coil.

I can say without reservation.

Any and all Deus owners/ users--- you have very old sites with loads of nails/ iron; especially carpets of nails----- you are cheating yourself if you are not hunting in these types of sites

The engineers behind the Deus--- definitely deserve Blue Ribbons

I am both fascinated and surprised by its performance every time I take it out.

Folks can call me a Deus band wagoner-- I don't mind

I just tell things like they are, and what I see and hear.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 11:32PM by tnsharpshooter.

I got my old Deus back this very evening! My buddy sent me a text saying he needed some money and offered it back to me for a price I couldn't say no to. He had even added a Deus carry bag and Vance headphones since he got it from me. Now that I've got some days off, I will get to use this thing some.

tnsharpshooter,

Thank you Sir,

I had completely forgotten that running zero disc knocks out the visual attempt to ID ferrous/non-ferrous.

I appreciate you sharing your methods and results. I will share your info with my detecting buddy who has the Deus.

I can fully relate to the scenario where the desired target in the plug can not be heard due to adjacent garbage that came up in the plug. One spot I dig at has sooo much iron that the dug plug has a 50% chance of laying right on top of shallow heavy iron and the target in the plug can not be detected until the entire plug is moved aside. At times my PP probe sounds off as I near the ground, its that bad.

Thanks again
Tony NC

I'm going to double check but I think my horseshoe works with full tones n 0 disc. I remember reading you have to have some disc for the hshoe to work but I swear I 0 disc and it worked

Bflo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to double check but I think my
> horseshoe works with full tones n 0 disc. I
> remember reading you have to have some disc for
> the hshoe to work but I swear I 0 disc and it
> worked


In full tones 0 disc

When pull tab or 12 penny nail are swept---- right side of horseshoe shaded.

Granted it is possible to use horseshoe while Deus is in this config--- for possible depth estimation.

And also remember even when running disc--- say low disc i.e. 3

Depending on nail/ iron size left or right side of horseshoe could be shaded

Usually disc level of 6-6.4 will knock out most nails---- but Deus performance using Disc is sacrificed somewhat in the separation/ unmasking dept.

I urge anyone who can indeed find a target using full tones 0 disc that reads 00 on the meter --- and then apply say a level of 6 disc and multi tone

I'll bet you won't hear the target--- at least not enough for you to even consider remotely digging

And this same target--- could indeed while using say disc level of 6---for the Deus to switch sides of horseshoe when sweeping

And for those with Deus experience--- most have probably experience a target that switches horseshoe sides can also be iron falses

Full tones, 0 disc does away with a lot of iron falses IMO

Granted iron wrap can indeed still happen--- but even iron wrap on bigger iron is easier to discern IMO vs using disc levels of 6-6.4



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2016 12:45AM by tnsharpshooter.

More great saves!!!!!! Well done! I love my Deus. 9" coil and all.

And if you changed Freq to something OTHER than 18-KHz...... you would see most handicapped/masked targets simply disappear.

I was wrong everything shows up as nonferous (:

Tom, when the new coil comes out the smaller size will obviously help the Deus unmask better but what about the higher(20,30,40 khz) freqs. Will we see better unmasking through use of higher freq's or is there a tipping point and 18k is optimum?
Tnss, your tips on the Deus and full tones/ 00 VDI have really helped me be a better hunter in machine gun iron. You are correct about less iron falsing, ends of nails and big iron falsing are both reduced IMHO. I have not found so many non-ferrous targets as you have but I have found enough to become a believer. Running the Deus in the worst of iron, it is actually quite addicting.

Goldbrick,

Your sites may not be as old as mine, hence the reason for my greater finds totals.

Something I need to do.

Experiment with notch using full tones and 0 disc.
I want to see if employing notch has any negative effect overall on the separation/ unmasking.

Consider this,,,sort of out of the box.

Imagine you are in a site with both modern and old to very old history.

Could a person say cherry pick--- only digging the signals that are somewhat to really handicapped.
You can almost bet these targets have never been detected previously.

A different way to cherry pick--- true a person would have no idea many times on the conductivity of such targets,,, but one never knows what they may find.

This would be a great strategy to hunt a site previously hunted hard by say Minelab users.

How would you do that? Notch 10-100? That would leave only the most severely handicapped targets reporting but you could miss some deep ones that are not on the very edge of detection I think.
Are the majority of targets compromised by iron or compromised by mineral and/or depth or any combinationof the three? It is an interesting idea yet the actual technique used may need to be site specific.

Higher freq's do have a propensity to unmask better in the iron; yet, it is the electronic architect that prevails.

tnsharpshooter hey man big deus user and fan. I was told that the xp deus was designed to be used with some disc, and if not that the machine will actually do strange things. Maybe the reason ur getting the 00 reading? Anyways great finds and love full tones myself. U have do any videos

Kickindirt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tnsharpshooter hey man big deus user and fan. I
> was told that the xp deus was designed to be used
> with some disc, and if not that the machine will
> actually do strange things. Maybe the reason ur
> getting the 00 reading? Anyways great finds and
> love full tones myself. U have do any videos


Well all I can say is using full tones 0 disc when hunting a carpet of nails--- at least to me offers some additional performance vs using some discrimination.

And when you consider this.

What does using disc do to a metal detectors ops???

I mean using disc you are in fact making the detector make a decision and report --- between ferrous and nonferrous

And this thinking you are placing on the metal detector's circuitry takes additional time. Now we are not talking about a lot of time--- but in an electronics sense and considering the fact the coil is moving,,,, the transmit portion of the coil----then the receive and processing --- any time not wasted is good------ ups the odds for possible detection.

And consider this fact.

Full tones were actually incorporated with a version update by Xp.
Why???
I think after using both my Deus units--- it adds some additional performance

Meaning some additional nonferrous finds are indeed possible when using full tones 0 disc.

Now today I went back and hunted this same area-- didn't find very many targets

This one target though-- provided very borderline tone,,, 50/50 iron vs nonferrous tone with 07 in the window
After repeated sweeps I eventually seen 72 all of a sudden pop in the window-- sure enough a button

This area I should say was hunted extensively with Deus version 2.0 with disc setting of 6 with reactivity level settings of 3 and 4.

I have found an additional 20 finds in this area
I attribute these additional finds to both version 3.2 update and using full tones with 0 disc employed.

I have in case you haven't seen, ask NASA Tom in the Xp Deus field test thread on this forum.

Granted he started this field test thread in 2012 before version 3.2 became available and the Full Tones option as well.
It has been said the Deus and Xp Gold max power actually perform more or less the same in the separation/ unmasking departments.
However, I'm thinking and wondering--- Does the full tones use with 0 disc using Deus actually now trump Xp Gold max
Remember I don't think Xp Gold max power offers this full tones option with zero disc to discern ferrous vs nonferrous-- and I have never used a Goldmaxx power detector.

I don't have a video camera.

But I do try to describe in words as good as I can what I see and hear.

Actually today, I was trying to find one of those targets that would flash 00 in the screen
So I could go from full tones to disc and 2 tone and see what the target sounded like
And if the target with disc level 6 was not heard--- I planned on incrementally dialing disc down and see how low I needed to go to get the target to at least give something that would make me dig.

Tomorrow I will be going to another site I busted hard-- hopefully I can latch on to at least a couple of the 00 readers and do a few comparisons tests.

I'm almost positive some other folks here have indeed experienced what I have--- they just don't talk or disclose about it for whatever reason.

Granted there are many variables when it comes to detecting and how a detector can/ will respond.
I try to disclose any and all peculiarities concerning my detecting sites; especially if I feel they have a moderate to severe impact.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2016 05:56AM by tnsharpshooter.

OK a ? To deus masters
This 0/disc full tones thing.

So I'm going to try to explain, I thought my horseshoe was working w 0/disc which it is (some) let me explain my thoughts. With 0 disc full tones from my yard and hunting at a school yesterday all nonferous show up and got the depth reading the problem is ferous items show up on the right side.as.well with 0 disc, so I tried .1 disc as a test and up to a disc that it took to basically null out buried iron to get the horseshoe to show on the ferrous side. So what good is that the shoe does not really show ferous until the disc level is higher than vdi number. In other words a 4 vdi does not show up on th e ferous side until I raised the disc up to 4. Does this make since and has anyone else seen this?

Bflo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK a ? To deus masters
> This 0/disc full tones thing.
>
> So I'm going to try to explain, I thought my
> horseshoe was working w 0/disc which it is (some)
> let me explain my thoughts. With 0 disc full
> tones from my yard and hunting at a school
> yesterday all nonferous show up and got the depth
> reading the problem is ferous items show up on the
> right side.as.well with 0 disc, so I tried .1 disc
> as a test and up to a disc that it took to
> basically null out buried iron to get the
> horseshoe to show on the ferrous side. So what
> good is that the shoe does not really show ferous
> until the disc level is higher than vdi number.
> In other words a 4 vdi does not show up on th e
> ferous side until I raised the disc up to 4. Does
> this make since and has anyone else seen this?


Yes it does make sense.

Consider the following experiment

Take a 16 penny nail

Adjust your disc down as low as you can and still get the nail to show up on the left side of horseshoe-- note your disc reading

Now take a hacksaw and saw the nail in half approx

Repeat the steps above

You should be able to lower disc a bit more than test above and get the cut nail to show on the left side of horseshoe

This leads to a person can infact use disc, but the problem is not all iron bits/ nails are the same size so it is very possible for the bigger bits to sneak through with tone

Full tones lets all the iron through and assigns tone accordingly--- keeps the audio gate flowing, eliminates more high tone falses since the detector's discrimination circuitry is not having to make quick decisions while the coil is going over nails, etc

Now in areas not loaded with nails-- using disc with say 3 tone, etc, is not as handicapped



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2016 11:52PM by tnsharpshooter.

The main thing on a Full tones setup to remember is when using no disc setting is the constant noise of the iron will be your din...

anything that rises above the din you investigate..

It works very well on a machines like a CTX or Explorer for that matter for plucking low conductors in iron using a Conduct mode...you listen to the high ringing din and then when a sound different eeks in you investigate..

You can't hardly do it on a Full tone F75 though...no Blending...


I actually find the DEUS to run the full tones better on a lower reactivity...It eliminates some of the start up shut down in dense iron slower reactivity just allows more rolling..As you're trying to decipher a slight audio change I find the faster reactivity creates at times interruptions in the audio and the slight nuance of Hz change can be missed..I find to have that din threshold ...Background radiation if you will to be continuous for sleuthy hunting..hiccups and I break concentration..

Ive actually in the past in iron heard targets better on a 2 reactivity full tones then 3 or 4 like on a two tone set up ...yet in two tone I still find that it does better in dense nails in terms of hard to get to finds if you use a very aggressive tone break setting and put the Low tone on the lowest HZ and the high tone on the highest Hz.....

I've got some nice Cuff button's to prove it LOL..

I find Full tones on the DEUS to offer more depth in open areas...

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla