Golden Sabre II, Pantera, and Royal Sabre for Gold rings?

I was wondering You Guys who have time on these is there a trick to cutting down odds on finding Gold Rings vs. Pull Tabs? Heard a couple different ones? I know still going to dig trash but cut the odds down at least. Will the trick work with Golden uMax other than notch? Thanks.

There are no tricks as far as my experience goes, just listen for the beep then dig it!!! It helps some to hunt where gold jewelry would be lost through physical activity like sports fields, volley ball courts, popular swimming beaches...well you probably get the idea. location matters.

HA!

GSII/Pantera does have a little trick regarding where you set the tone break. Doesn't work on the Golden Micromax though.

With the new tone Golden uMax all you can do is set your gold tone and dig gold tone trash until you are met with sucess. Like Hombre said, location matters.

HH
Mike

Come on Mike, where You set the Tone break as inquiring minds would like to know? Thanks.

Harold,
On the GSII/Pantera, you set the tone break with a certain old style square pull tab. Gene Radacher (mis-spelling the last name) turned me onto this. I haven't heard from him in a couple of years. You hunt that tone. Its a very unique sound that seems to key on mass. Gives me shivers when I hunt that way and hear that tone.

HH
Mike

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
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> Come on Mike, where You set the Tone break as inqu
> iring minds would like to know? Thanks.

I believe he's merely talking about a form of "notching". Sure, anyone, on a variety of machines , can notch out certain recurring types of tabs. And elect to only dig targets above that range (so you'd miss all small gold rings), or elect to dig above and below certain marks, etc... "Ring enhancement programs" have been around since the invention of TID meter machines starting in the early 1980s.

Rest assured you will miss gold rings (that fell into the zones you're electing to pass). And rest assured you will still dig a lot of junk (esp. in locations where aluminum cans have mixed with lawn-mowers creating can-slaw).

If anyone tells you "gold has a different sound than aluminum", here's how you solve that: Take them out to the nearest inner city blighted park and turn them loose. See how much gold they get. Eventually you'll see it's nothing but random odds . And you'll hear the sound of crickets to their prior claims.

As others are saying: The trick to getting gold rings is not certain machines, or audio or notch tricks. Nor is the trick to "lower your disc. and dig aluminum till your arms fall off". The trick is: Location location location. Namely: Swim beaches. And if you must do turf for gold, pick affluent neighborhoods with sports activities that require frolicking motions. Soccer fields around the goal posts. Sand Volleyball courts, mud-wrestle pits, etc.....

GS 11 and Pantera just hold the tone longer for gold jewelry...pretty tough on Royal as does not have a distinct high and low tone below and above notch....this is done in pinpoint and will not work with the Golden U-max as it uses different pinpoint....Reason for this gold weighs much more than the junk that imitates...sure a key or lump of lead will fool you because they are also heavy...Takes a keen ear but works with practice....

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
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> GS 11 and Pantera just hold the tone longer for go
> ld jewelry...

..Takes a
> keen ear but works with practice....

Dan, what this basically amounts to (let's be honest), is that : "With certain machines, and with enough practice, someone can tell gold apart from other metals to a good degree of certainty" Right ?

And as always, when someone makes that claim, they'll point out some object(s) that will be problematic and fool them.

But at what point does it become 'random odds' ? Each item you pull up, (lead wad, key, etc...) you can say "except this one" and "except that one", and .... eventually, when does it become random odds ?

Any post-dig notion (once you eventually find a gold ring) that it "Sounded different", I believe it nothing more than selective memory bias at play. It's easy to think "that sounded different" ONLY because every time we stop to dig an object, we subconsciously say to ourselves: "This sounds different". But when it turns out to be junk, we THEN subconsciously say to ourselves "yeah, come to think of it, it *did* sound sort of junky". ONLY when we find the gold item, do we THEN remember our premonitions and think "aha! I knew it!". And we convince ourselves that "gold sounds different".

Anytime I have heard someone say there's a learnable difference, I have challenged them to go to a junky park and show the ability. Even if only a 1 to 50 ratio, the average hunter WOULD BE GLAD to dig 50 junk items for each gold ring. But , alas, all you hear is the sound of crickets, and no one is ever able to show the ability.

Or it turns out they're A) notching [which is not the same thing], or B ) simply going to places where the ratios are much better in the first place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2017 01:46AM by Tom_in_CA.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
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> I was wondering You Guys who have time on these is
> there a trick to cutting down odds on finding Gold
> Rings vs. Pull Tabs? Heard a couple different ones
> ? I know still going to dig trash but cut the odds
> down at least. Will the trick work with Golden uMa
> x other than notch? Thanks.
First time posting here. Great forum you all have.
With my GSII no matter where I set notch for accept
at least one of the four different gold rings I use for testing won't register.
You still have to rely on the tonal nuance I think.
I mainly use the GSII at old camping areas and
set the tone to break on the melted aluminum blobs from fires.
The only time I use the notch would be hunting for a known lost item
If you have a similar item to set the acept with.

Noah

TabZilla Wrote:
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> You still have to rely on the tonal nuance I think
> .

There will, no doubt, be a "tonal nuance" between an aluminum or lead glob (sharing a similar TID/VDI) versus a gold ring you could test along-side of it.

However: SO TOO will there be a "tonal nuance" between each competing aluminum wad object you test (even though they share a similar TID/VDI). And SO TOO will there be a "tonal nuance" between each 2 gold rings (even though they might share a similar TID/VDI ).

If someone thinks there's a "tonal nuance" between aluminum and gold in general, that can be learned, all you have to do is ask them to show you. By inviting them out to the nearest blighted junky park to show you. I suspect you will hear the sound of crickets.

What works for me is a detector with an expanded VDI scale. Most pulltabs show up 3-4 numbers wide, where as rings come in as one number or 2. On occasion a square tab comes in at 2 numbers, or a ring pull with the tab curled around the ring.
What detector do I use? The rutus alter 71. Its a different beast, but I like the ring results I'm getting. About 9% if my finds are rings, so far this year. No gold rings yet, mostly junk rings, but it shows promise.

possum mo Wrote:
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> What works for me is a detector with an expanded V
> DI scale. Most pulltabs show up 3-4 numbers wide,
> where as rings come in as one number or 2. On occ
> asion a square tab comes in at 2 numbers, or a rin
> g pull with the tab curled around the ring.
> What detector do I use? The rutus alter 71. Its
> a different beast, but I like the ring results I'm
> getting. About 9% if my finds are rings, so far t
> his year. No gold rings yet, mostly junk rings, bu
> t it shows promise.

This is known as "notching". In the early days, it was known as "ring enhancement programs". Yes, it can be helpful for places with plentiful recurring certain types round tabs. Or plentiful smaller foil. The logic plays off the fact that *most* gold rings won't read in the very small foil wad range (unless they were a very dainty ladies gold or plat). And plays off the odds that very few men's gold rings read *exactly* at round tab, and so forth.

In fact, "back in the day" (early days of TID) some guys even went out and tested hundreds of random gold rings (I guess they had a buddy that owned a jewelry store !) and carefully plotted their TID numerical readouts. Then they scanned 100's of typical aluminum junk items you'd find in a park if you were in "strip-mine" mode. And they carefully plotted all those #'s. Then it's merely a matter of running statistical odds, eh ? And sure, there's a time & a place for "notching" like that.

But it is not to be confused with the notion of telling gold and silver apart by sounds or tones. And the success goes out the window if you're in a park where can slaw and larger foil wads are in abundance.

Tom to answer your question only works for me on early notchTesoro's and used a lot of units In last 25 years. Is it foolproof of course not but cuts down the odds to dig or not.
Keep in mind takes a lot of patience and practice but it works for me and we all have learned a trick or two even if other posters keep their tricks to themselves...

In the time (1994) that I first picked up a metal detector (White's XLT) I have found 10 gold class rings and probably around 20 other gold rings. That number is not going to make anybody rich & since I have returned most of the class rings. Every one of these gold rings was a complete surprise, whether they came to light in my sand scoop using my Tiger Shark or shown up in my rich dark soil here in Ks. It is such a random chance to find a gold piece of jewelry when relying on a notch or target ID, because that pulltab signal you just walked past could have been a gold ring.

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
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> Tom to answer your question only works for me on e
> arly notchTesoro's


"What" only works on early notch tesoros ? A "notching" method to enhance gold ring odds versus aluminum odds ? You're talking about old-school progressive dial knobs, right ? Where the higher you go up on the knob, you are progressively knocking out various types/sizes aluminum. Right ? Then how is it that today's graphs, numerical readouts, 3d axis, etc... can't do the same thing ? Aren't they essentially taking the same TID readouts, and just making them all-the-more plott-able ?

And to the extent that some yester-year machine did it sweeter or nicer or whatever, it's still "notching" none-the-less, right ? Which, yes, helps in some situations. But no, is not telling aluminum apart from gold based on sounds/tones. It's still essentially a VDI odds, eh ?

Golden Sabre has a trick for silver the sound is smoother/longer/warmer.
Gold I never had a trick for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2017 03:32PM by GreenMeanie.

I hunt rural areas where I can dig it all with a fast recovery metal detector and use a shovel as my Discrimination. Then I look at the recovered object to see what I have found.

Harold, Tabzilla,

The GSII only has two tones. Where the two tones come together they blend into a mixed tone. Much like how your new tone Golden uMax blends the iron tone and the gold tone together, Harold. This mixed tone can be shifted up and down the conductive range by where you set your Notch dial. You are not notch accepting or notch rejecting. All you are doing is setting your tone ranges. . You find this setting with an early model square tab. You set the mixed tone on that square tab.

Conventional wisdow (read Tom ) would suggest that at this point all you are doing is using tones to "notch in" a range of target responses, ie the old square tab. However actually reality is that this setting tends to react more to mass than conductivity. It squawks on mass. You have to hear it.

Gene lives (or lived) in Florida and he hunted the ball fields for gold using the GSII and this was his primary. His only complaint was the depth limitations of the GSII. He was and probably still is, looking for something with as much gold reliability he experienced with the GSII, but with more depth capability.

GIve it a go.

HH
Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2017 04:02PM by Mike Hillis.

Tom try this buy-beg-borrow a GS11 or Pantera....use a vdi unit to get a tab and gold ring that read about the same....put the unit in pinpoint and go over each....
Tab will be a quick beep-beep and gold ring will be a beeeeeep-beeeeeeep......start with a larger ring and same vdi tab and work down to a small gold ring and perhaps a piece of foil with like vdi as the large gold ring tone will be more prevalent....works with notch or not but notch will give you a dual tone and you will know approx. if small or large gold ring...gold is heavy and tab or foil is not is the reason for the tonal difference.

Dan,
I'm putting VDI on my GSII. Almost got the LCD mount finished. I'll share a pic and review after I get it finished here in a week or so.
HH
Mike

Mike Hillis Wrote:
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> Dan,
> I'm putting VDI on my GSII. Almost got the LCD m
> ount finished. I'll share a pic and review after
> I get it finished here in a week or so.
> HH
> Mike

Mike is a (turf) gold hunter. If there is a way "to beat the odds", he will find it!-----Let us know how this turns out Mike.-----------Del

Mike Hillis Wrote:
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> Dan,
> I'm putting VDI on my GSII. Almost got the LCD m
> ount finished. I'll share a pic and review after
> I get it finished here in a week or so.
> HH
> Mike

Sounds like an awesome project!
Had mine about 6 months or so.
Still tinkering with different ways to use the tone break.
Definitely a very responsive machine.
Really liking the higher tone frequencies compared to my newer Tesoros.
Will give your break point a shot in the parks I hunt.
Thanks for the info.

Noah

Mike Hillis, So are saying to dig the break sound You set with the older Sqaure Pull tab?
I know one You talkin' about as have one I Dug. I guess You will dig a couple of those also.

Interested topic.

I know of that which Tom speaks. Guys have been trying to better their odds of finding gold rings/ignoring pulltab trash ever since I can remember. The first gold ring I found was with a White's Eagle a couple hours after I bought it. Dealer told me to make sure I dug up any solid signal in the 50's as it was above the tabs and below the zinc pennies; prime mens' ring territory. A 5" deep target rang up a mid-50's signal on a sports field and I popped my first gold ring with my hole hog. Drove back over to the dealer for a show and tell. He was dumbfounded I found a gold ring so fast. Tom D speaks of improving your odds of finding gold rings in his Beach Hunter DVD.

On the flip side, I read a lot of the postings from the beach hunters who frequently use the old sovereign / excalibur detectors and talk of those audio nuances. I guess if you take a handful of pull tabs, foil and gold rings and do some air testing, one should be able to learn the difference in sound characteristics if it is possible. Anybody?

There's a vintage Golden Sabre II on the auction site for another couple days for anybody that wants to give it a try. . . . . . Currently at $53 . . . .


Rich -

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 06:37AM by Gonebeepin'.

Gonebeepin' Wrote:
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, I read a lot of the postings fro
> m the beach hunters who frequently use the old sov
> ereign / excalibur detectors and talk of those aud
> io nuances. I guess if you take a handful of pull
> tabs, foil and gold rings and do some air testing,
> one should be able to learn the difference in soun
> d characteristics if it is possible.

If someone with those machines (or any machines) claims a difference , then invite them out to a junky blighted park to show you. And sure, they can add in audio clues like "density and mass" to the "tones" and "TID/VDI". But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, I would LOVE to see someone actually do it. Even with a 50 to 1 ratio .... most guys would gladly put up with those odds. It's not hard to dig 50 targets in a casual hunt period window of time after all

We all know or should know in local parks gold rings are far and few between but experienced detectorists do have their way of cutting down the odds.
In my area would never get off my knees due to the junk and perhaps a gold ring or three....no exact ways...just cutting down the odds..to dig or not...

Dan-Pa. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.... experienced detecto
> rists do have their way of cutting down the odds.

Yes. This is beyond dispute. But it's a question of "notching" versus "does gold *sound* different?" I know very well that many persons have said it sounds different. And ... with practice, you can attain to this skill level.

Yet when you look around, you do not see these fellows going to junky parks and doing any better than random odds (or they are, in reality, just notching ). And by "notching", sure, they can add in "density" and "mass" that a proficient user can start to discern (concise vs flitty and triple-toned flimsy sounding, etc...). But rest-assured this means they miss a wadded up gold bracelet or oblong earing, or amulet that isn't thick or "round", etc... And if a ring is on edge (which rings with crowns DO tend to "tilt" after time in the ground), then are you going to get that "round" sound ? No. And rest assured: lots of types of aluminum objects and lead objects mimic the density/mass sound of a man's gold ring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 02:55PM by Tom_in_CA.

Gonebeepin, I saw one on eBay and that got Me thinking on this topic. That is a deal at the Moment but as with eBay it will surely go for more? I would rather have the Pantera with the Manual GB. And the Big Cat decals look cool. Lol. But Panteras are rare as only made 2 Years I think? Had a shot at a Mint one and should have grabed it. Oh Well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 03:44PM by Harold,ILL..

I'm content with putting in the effort and learning and proving to myself what works and what doesn't. I don't have to prove it to anyone else. Some of the stuff I learn I share, some of the stuff I don't. Dan's tip with the pinpoint is a great tip he has shared before. The tone break tip that I received from Gene and used myself is a great tip. Its one of the reasons I keep going back to a GSII.

I would say that I find it has gotten much more difficult since the gold price spike and the new sustained price over $1000. Most all gold jewelry that didn't have a sentimental value was sold. Less gold is being worn. Fresh drops are more likely to be costume jewelry or non-precious metal types. Fathers are not decorating their little girls in gold like they were before. The whole gold ecomomy has changed and equipment, technique, and site reading skills are even more important now than they were before. To me it has moved beyond skill to more like art to be consistantly good at bringing home the gold.

HH
Mike

Thanks Mike as always enjoy Your insight on Gold Jewelry Hunting. I know You have put in the time and effort along with Dan,Pa. and others.