Preachin' on Sunday mornin'

I've been consistantly following multiple detecting forums since I got into this hobby and the more I learn from a self taught aspect, and that is a never ending process that I pursue vigorously and ongoingly, the more I'm amazed at how much mis-information there is out there daily and how much of it is swallowed up as fact. I'm not even going to go into specific detectors or if the motives of the mis-information are loyalty based or just not knowing any better. I'll choose to give the benefit of the doubt. I also realize that many hobbyists just don't have the interest or perhaps the means to have many detectors, do extensive testing with any and all of them head to head and actually see for themselves. Given that, I understand how one would be more apt to accept whatever they hear as "the truth". There is no doubt that no one has the time to document countless notes, testimonies, or make videos of how a detector responds to the nearly infinite real world combinations of co-located targets and their proximities to each other. I get it. First off, it would be impossible to simulate literally everything you could encounter and would take a lifetime to hopefully run up against most of them in a real world situation. So what is a guy to do? For starters, I'd suggest to invest some time and just take whatever detector(s) one has at their disposal, go outside or to the garage or whatever and just set up random "good/bad" target combinations. Yep, this is only a two dimensional approach to a three dimensional problem, but first things first. Let the sky be the limit on your own creativity because the more you try, the more you'll learn. Learn what the detector tells you as you size the combination, Find the overall center if the two objects are too close to give individual signals. Then swing repeatedly over the targets while slowly rotating 360. Regardless of the specific VDI's you might witness and what they would "usually" signify, can you see some sort of repeated VDI variation from one or several of the approach angles? The "repeated" part is critical. Particularly if you do see that, but not to be limited to only if you do, next step back from the targets and while swinging (this is one of the strengths of DD's) slowly approach the center and repeat this process from as much of 360 as you can take because the more you do, the better the liklihood you will be able to sniff out the probability of a good target lurking in the mix and at what position it is occupying. Again, you're looking for repeated VDI range tendancies as you examine each and every piece of the whole pie. If you've never done this simple, albeit time consuming tactic, you'll definitely improve your ability to recognize the probability of ferrous/non-ferrous co-location as well as dual non-ferrous. Doing this initially in a two dimensional realm that you can physically see the objects and the resultant cause and effects as you surgically examine the targets will be priceless to your future success in the field. Do this with several detectors and you'll learn how each detector/coil combination stacks up. Everyone has heard of "learning the detector's language" and this is a huge component of that for BOTH the visual and audio language. There is a chance that you might also learn that a lot of what you read may be different than your own observations.

This is great advice! I'd also add that for those who have the property to build a test bed, please take the time to do so. Burying one coin and one nail-near-coin can create endless permutations to study.

Preach on, Brother Brad!

Seriously, you make some great points, and your ideas about testing make complete sense. Makes me feel like an idiot that I haven't done more testing of my machines. Instead of asking so many questions, I should do more experimenting. Kind of silly when you think that you are using a piece of equipment to "see" things underground, and trying to read what it says to you, without having had the experience visually of how the machine "speaks" about different targets/target combinations. For instance, I have seen it written that F-series machines tend to "average up" when there are co-located targets. What does this mean exactly? Bet I could find out, if I did more extensive testing with my machine...DUH!

Thanks Brad; a different perspective but one that is completely obvious, and makes sense. So obvious, that I wonder why I go detecting at all without first learning how my machine "talks." That'd be sort of like asking a shooter to try out a new, completely unfamiliar type of gun, and expecting him to hit the target bullseye at 100 yards. He can ask all he wants about bullet weight, amount and type of powder in the bullet, muzzle velocity, etc., but until he shoots a bunch of rounds through the gun on the practice range, he won't know the characteristics of how the gun works. He SURELY, if he was wise, wouldn't go hunting with the gun until he knew with what precision he could hit a given target at a given distance! DUH!

This is basic science. Testing a hypothesis empirically, looking for repeatability while changing variables and holding others constant, until you arrive at solid conclusions.

Thanks for this post.

Steve

....and that, Steve, is why you'll do and be just fine in this hobby. More importantly, allowing that inherent inquisitive nature as well as your confidence in yourself to have the ability and desire to generate your own realities to flourish and serve you very well, you're gonna have an absolute BLAST as you make the journey!

Thanks for the kind words, Brad. This hobby certainly provides a great, fun challenge; for me, most challenges are enticing enough, but if you make it a challenge where seeking a "solution" or "achievement" involves a mental, scientific approach, then you have me hooked! I am a problem-solver by nature; my wife has learned the hard way not to say "this is broken, can you fix it?" unless there is NOTHING else that needs to be done, on the agenda. Because if she makes that mistake, I am known to lose all sense of time and priority, and simply can't do anything else, until the problem is fixed! And this hobby provides ENDLESS problems to solve, countless "nuances" to learn about, and plenty of reward when you learn your lessons well!

Thanks Brad.

Steve

OMG!!!!!!!!!! With that bit of personal info, I'm forced to wonder if we don't have a common parent! LOL and of course, JK!!! All I can say is enjoy "the curse" and give thanks daily for having an understanding wife.

Uh oh...you too? Must be something in that Ohio Valley water! And, an understanding wife is the only reason I'm still married, I'm certain...

The "curse..."; that certainly explains it well!

Steve

Thanks

LowBoy

TAKE A LITTLE TIME KICKBACK AND WATCH SOME OF MY DETECTING VIDEO'S BELOW ON YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

If you don’t dig it, then how are you going to know what you’re missing!
How can you have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat!

Good post.
I've been considering alot of these points you've addressed, especially the test garden. I've been wanting to build a really complex type of garden in my yard and want to get various opinions as to what different scenario's to make. I'll just start a new thread.

Thanks Brad.

most people just get them and drive them, not knowing all the things the machine can do


I've been consistantly following multiple detecting forums too, for the last 12 years and I can't believe how this hobby has split up so many friendships

Aaron, if you haven't already built a test garden in clean soil, then I'm going to discourage you from building "a really complex type of garden" and encourage you to build a really simply garden with one semi-deep target (6-7") and one simple masked target. Then play with your detector(s) and go to school!

If this hobby splits up a friendship, then it wasn't much of a friendship to begin with.

One thing that I have found invaluable is to hunt with a pardner if at all possible !!......I have stumbled on more findings about various machines by comparing them to other machines ..... This TRUELY shows you what's what with the various machines and how they handle various situations differently !!.....It's pretty amazing to actually WITNESS something first hand that you have read about ..... Certain things that go on in the background that you don't even realize that are happening until you read something .....For example .... I'm so use to my patterns on my E Trac that dis\criminate out bottle caps that I don't even give them a thought ......Then you start reading thread after thread about how well machine a b or c does with bottle caps , and what a HUGE dilema it is , and I have just been NOT HEARING them all along so it's no big deal to me !!...... You just get use to your machine doing something in the background that you take for granted ...... Or machines that can discriminate better than others ......Or simple things like the effect that the weight of a machine has on you ...... When you can compare targets with your buddy, it's REALLY an eye openner wien you see the difference in his/her machine and yours ...... Checking targets back and forth really does make you take notice about what's going on with your machine .....

BuckeyeBrad ,
I have to say that I have noticed more than most how people on the forum DO take what they hear as gospel .....There are folks who will post something , and if they are somewhat prominant folks on the forums , there are guys who will " suck up " to them and thank them profusely for information WITHOUT even seeing if the info that was given was true or not . ....... I try EVERYTHING that I hear mentioned by ANYONE on the forums .....I take NOTHING as gospel ..... You have no idea how many times I have called someone to task on what they have to say about anything and found that it was JUST NOT TRUE !!!.... I will say that Tom D. is one such prominent people in the industry that I continue to learn from , and will listen to what he has to say because I have WITNESSED a lot of what he has written and have seen FIRST HAND what he writes about to be true ..... Nobody is perfect , and I have been known to say something that came out the wrong way , and had to re write my statement to make folks better understand what I meant to say to begin with ...... Sometimes it's just hard to put something into words .... I'm glad ANYTIME someone calles me to task as sometimes someone will take what I write in a different way than the way it was meant ..... Taking something that someone writes and WITNESSING it for yourself , seals the deal so to speak .....You might forget something that you read, but you will NEVER forget something that you WITNESSED !!..... Challenge everyone around you, and challenge YOURSELF !!... Good thread !!.....Jim

Jim --

You are right; that healthy does of skepticism you discuss is exactly how a scientific mind is supposed to work!

Steve

is what my Dad always told me....



People do try to get there info from other people... heck we would not be here at this site if it were not true ..We all do it everyday.. be it New's media( ha don't get me started) to reading book's etc etc...and for the most part we believe it..

But to get the most out of this hobby self taught is the best learning experience...What little I know right now to be truthful I could never read in a book or watch and learn on a video...

I spend myself after 30 years of detecting sitting in the living room with the detector in my lap watching Television running target's past the coil...makes my wife Livid sometime's....I will stay up till 4-5 in the morning just testing in the garage... to me it's the funnest thing I can think of and actually away of life....

it's the countless thousand's of hour's in the field that hone and sharpen your skill's and understanding....and that will never be replicated in a book/video

I don't believe Hank Aaron ever read a book on how to hit home run's...

Now I do find video's fun to watch so don't get the wrong idea...especially the real world hunt's..

People also put too much into detector war's...the A machine will out do the B machine... I know what will do what and I try and keep those thought's my own...

Never take detector's personal because then the truth will be misconstrued ...Sad But true....

I would rather see quality than anything else...Vlf's are as far as they can go I believe ...one machine will do what another will for the most part...I want a detector that is reliable and built right where's that at???

Still say Troy Had/Has the right Idea ...build the current Vlf technology to the tightest highest spec's available,,,

People should never mislead anyone on what they discover...And if I they make a mistake in the finding's please update the info..



Real Question's/ Real answer's and Real world hunt's ...at least we have a gathering place here and Tom's

Ask question's always but be picky in the replies you get back...

Keith

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is great advice! I'd also add that for those
> who have the property to build a test bed, please
> take the time to do so. Burying one coin and one
> nail-near-coin can create endless permutations to
> study.


This test in itself is an eyeopener. It's amazing that most machines will only see the nail when scanning the nail horizontally, yet when you can the nail/coin vertically, with a fast machine, and a slow swing, you'll get independent responses from both targets.

"It's amazing that most machines will only see the nail when scanning the nail horizontally, yet when you can the nail/coin vertically, with a fast machine, and a slow swing, you'll get independent responses from both targets"

POSITIONING a detector at a certain angle and showing these tests were the BRUNT of many "smoke and mirror " shows that WOW'D many a detectorist into thinking that these "new features " built into a machine were the cat's meow !!!......It was all smoke and mirrors , and when shown in a video , many detectorists were thanking the detector celebraty for showing these amazing results ....I did the same test and brought it to everyones attention ......There was only one guy who stood by me on that one !!......The rest to of the folks never even checked the experiment with their own machine .....They took it as gospel !!!........PERFECT EXAMPLE !!!......Jim

KUDO'S again Brad. Good thread.

The Gospel of TerraDigger has only one page in it. On that page is printed a giant "?".
And that's my 2 Cu cents worth.

The Gospel of TerraDigger , that's pretty strong, I always thought I was the supreme ruler of the universe haha or that's at lease what I tell my kids

My Old Man had me believing he was the Supreme Ruler of the Universe too
It's one of the perks of being a DAD............lol