e-trac

have been reading much lately on the minelab e-trac being a "best deep "silver"
detector compared to everything else available that i thought i would ask opinions of this,
to try to make a determination IF what i am reading IS in fact the truth from a"user" standpoint!
..what i am reading is that the e-trac will "null" on most if not all junk,and STILL
see the deep silver in parks,school grounds,and the like!..kinda wondering,and any and all input is invited!
thanks!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

E-TRAC is more subject to masking than many other 'faster' units.

In my preliminary studies, using the popular Etrac settings, I see no measurable advantage over the F75 LTD.

Both units are severely masked with simple target geometries.

The E-Trac shouldn't be thought of as having similar unmasking performance as any of the other Explorers (XS, II, SE, and even the SE Pro) when it nulls. It might not necessarily look like a world beater in "the nail board test" compared to faster single freq's but the in ground performance is quite a bit different. MANY times I have clearly heard and pulled silver out from under 6" wide/8" deep plugs that had several nails in them, in other words on top of the silver target which was several inches deeper yet. Individuals should decide how good it is by using one instead of going on someone's testimony, but it is definitely a paradigm shift as far as unmasking from any of the other FBS units.

Iron will cripple all units severely........yet, there are some measureable differences.

Funny I stumbled across this post jmaryt I never used an E-trac or even an Explorer, however, I did run with the Safari for a while. They are all roughly the same minus the "bell's & whistle's". For coins - especially deep silver - the Minelab was the BEST detector I ever used. BUT, just as you stated, they null out. That's the problem...and why I sold my Safari. IMHO, once you get into the upper price ranges, all detectors will pretty much have the same performance depth wise. However, one will have a certain drawback and another won't. One will be better at a certain application and the other will not. So, since they are all roughly the same, choose the one that fits best with where you normally hunt.

Minelab's DO go deeeeeeeeep. However, they tend to be VERY confusing and difficult to learn (especially when coming from another brand), null out, are quite heavy & are battery hogs. That's why I'm looking at the F75 Ltd. myself down the line. Basically the same performance of the Minelab's, BUT, light years ahead in terms of dealing with iron and trash. I currently own a Teknetics Omega 8000. It is made by the same folks who make Fisher's. My unit is not the greatest on depth (it's only $600), but, my machine almost never nulls out in iron or trash. So, think of how much better something in the upper ranges would be

Both are EXCELLENT detectors. But, I'd look more at the F75 Ltd. or T2 Special Edition.

I actually find the Etrac very simple to use with intuitive, albeit numerous settings. It appears to deal with trash no better, nor any worse, compared to other top of the line single frequency units. With respect to steel bottle caps, it does a good job of discrimination, in a different manner... A more 'direct' manner compared to the LTD.

The E Trac cannot be linked with the other Minelab machines as it does a much better job dealing wtih masking since it has a much wider scale ..... The discrimination is 2nd to none , including the F75 which cannot go across the scale and pick and choose what targets it decides it wants to discriminate at wlll ..... The E Trac can discriminate a dime , but not a quarter , and then go on to take out higher Silver targets and drop down and take out nickels too ALL IN ONE SHOT if it so chooses .....THIS is part of the reason that it hits ONLY the targets it chooses to hit .... Good targets that are chosen by the matrix will be heard thru the null ....It is NOT like your average machine where the EVERYTHING is nulled ..... In real world tests which I have witnessed , the E Trac can hear good targets with iron nearby , and has no problem doing so .....Again , most all of the Minelab machines do NOT perform well on air tests , but in the ground , in REAL WORLD conditions , it is a pretty amazing piece of kit !!..... You can watch all the nail video's you want , but when you WITNESS what it can do in the field , only THEN will you know what it can and can't do .....YES the E Trac will see DEEP SILVER better than most machines out there and see it with trash and iron around too ,make no mistake about that !!......

YES the E Trac has a much larger learning curve , but once you wrap your head around what everything is doing , it's really quite easy to set up a program and run it in the area that you custom design the program for ..... Your single frequency machines are FAST , and they are LIGHT , and they are deep , but you won't go FAST in a trashy park , you won't go DEEP in trashy park nor wiill you go deep anywhere near Saltwater .....You will be standing there listenning intently for a good tone for you to go by , and hope that you can hear it thru the noise !!.....

If there is a shortcoming that the E Trac has , it would be locating small gold ..... but at least it will be able to perform in saltwater to look for it ......It has no trouble with larger gold like womans rings and such ...That COLD Winters day was the ONLY time I have ever had trouble with a Minelab on larger gold ....Still not sure what that was all about ....

If you are SERIOUSLY interested in comparisons of the older Explorers, and the new E Trac, and would like to understand more about it and how the technology works, you can pick up the book The Minelab Explorer & E Trac Handbook written by Andy Sabisch .......It goes into detail about Iron Mask on the Explorers , and Quick Mask on the E Trac ..... A lot of what I have read in this book I have WITNESSES so I'm not just talking about what I have read or have heard .....

I will be the first to say that if you are use to a certain type of machine , and you are happy using it , than THAT is the machine for you ..... The E Trac is not for everybody, but neither is the F75 !!.....Happy Hunting !!......Jim

Quote

They are all roughly the same minus the "bell's & whistle's".

They were developed independently and one is not a "lighter version" of the Explorer or E-Trac, but it's good to hear that all of their machines perform well.

I can't say enough about the Explorer's TID screen. The patterns the cursor creates are much easier to remember/recognize than the several numbers of the F75 and the dozens that can be generated on a simple deep coin in BP mode. In real hunting I saw no appreciable difference in "unmasking". In fact, I felt in heavy iron (old home site), the F75 falsed so much with the big coil on that I had a more enjoyable experience with the Explorer with a wide-open screen. When you're in an iron pit, the Explorer (not necessarily the E-Trac) can be operated with a wide open screen (no discrim) and ferrous tones - then there is no "null" / absence of threshold. The iron becomes a low warble while you listen for higher tones.

The multiple tones of the Explorer and E-Trac are incredible - there's a lot in those tones, whereas I found the F75 to be more of a "brute force" with it's 4 tones. Beep or no beep. There wasn't a lot of nuance - some, but not nearly as many as with the Explorer. I still hold out hope that the next Minelab machine will either go back to the Explorer S curves (vs. the fe12 line) or have an Explorer emulator. It seems like you could easily do it with software.

Lighter ??......nothing light about the minelabs............Nothing...................man they are hard to beat on a day to day hunt.

F75.......now that is light if u compare these two or T2

i favor the beach as my zone to hunt..........99%..........all minelabs will perform good here............. and most PI's

use the etrac on mono tones and f75 on mono tones......all metals........both are killer heaters especially for the dirt..........mono tones are hard to beat for woods and dirt zone......good for the beach as well, but i like the other settings better for the beach on the minelabs..........the first texas line does not perfrom all that well in the wet salt sand for me.

JMHO

BuckeyeBrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The E-Trac shouldn't be thought of as having
> similar unmasking performance as any of the other
> Explorers (XS, II, SE, and even the SE Pro) when
> it nulls. It might not necessarily look like a
> world beater in "the nail board test" compared to
> faster single freq's but the in ground performance
> is quite a bit different. MANY times I have
> clearly heard and pulled silver out from under 6"
> wide/8" deep plugs that had several nails in them,
> in other words on top of the silver target which
> was several inches deeper yet. Individuals should
> decide how good it is by using one instead of
> going on someone's testimony, but it is definitely

precisely why i am attempting to get user "feedback" on this "most"
expensive detector BEFORE commiting to "taking out a second mortgage on the house"
to purchase one,as they are not exactly giving them away!.again!..my thanks for your comments!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

j.t. --

Interesting thread. I understand where you are, and I may be there before long, too!

I have not only READ about the "silver-sniffing" ability of the Etracs, but have also seen firsthand my fellow hunters with Etracs consistently pull out the silver from trashy parks.

I got a chance to use one of their Etracs today. I liked it. Heavy, but I really liked the tones, the info available...I still dug some trash, but it was mostly due to inexperience I think. I was running a pretty "open" screen, everything was "accepted" except for high ferrous numbers.

But something I don't understand -- the "null" issue. I heard it frequently -- you lose the "threshold" and just hear "nothing." I don't understand for sure what's going on there. The "null" seems to be spoken of on this forum as a "bad" thing -- a negative trait. I don't, though, get the impression that the guys I know using Etracs consider this a negative. Can someone tell me what this "nulling" is and why it is "bad?" Do I understand the "negative" to be that when the Etrac is "nulling," it's due to iron, and thus it may be "missing" anything good that might be co-located?

To be honest, using my F70, I have rarely, rarely been able to successfully locate a coin under/near a nail. For me, when in the trash, there is SO much going on, audio-wise, that I simply cannot differentiate. Which "highs mixed with lows" are simply iron mixed with high falsing (my experience has been that this is 99% of such tone mixtures), and which "highs mixed with lows" are an occasional co-location of non-ferrous and ferrous targets? The "iron false" high chirps that are ALMOST ALWAYS there, mixed in with the low tones, are SO frequent, that I have nearly given up trying to pick the good stuff from the trash. For me, it would be analagous to trying to find a single gold ring in a park just FILLED with foil, pull tabs, and nickels. 99% of the mid tones you would dig would be trash. Same thing in these "low tone, high tone" mixture signals. They are CONSTANT, and for me, RARELY productive. I spend SO much time on them, that it eats up all my hunting time and meanwhile I have found next to nothing (having covered so little ground). Only when I choose to "cherry pick only" do I actually manage to cover any ground and find a few good targets.

What is my point? Well, for me, given that this is supposed to be a main "strength" of an F-series machine, (picking the goodies from the trash), I simply haven't been able to make this work. So, from this perspective, while some accuse the Etrac of being "slow" -- missing coins co-located with iron, I don't think it would be much of a problem for me personally; again, because I have shown little ability to use this supposed strength of the F70, anyway. Unless I get a nice, repeatable high tone, my success at trying to find a good target (by digging the "iffy," occasional high tones amongst the rusty iron) has honestly been next to zero. And believe me, I am listening VERY intently. Maybe not "intelligently" -- as a highly experienced user would, but I do listen very carefully to all the tones. I'm trying so hard to sort out any "better"-sounding tone amongst the trash, that like I've mentioned in other posts, I find myself constantly mired down in the junk (I keep thinking I'll find a partially-masked coin, hunting behind those Etracs, that they may have missed -- but it has not happened, period). And again, the Etrac users I hunt with simply do not have the problems with trash that I do. I experienced it today, while using the Etrac. WAY less noise, WAY more information available. I even went back over a spot, with the Etrac, that a half hour before I was just BARRAGED with while using my F70, so noisy and confusing that I couldn't even hunt there. The Etrac was, on the other hand, in that same spot, simply, well-behaved. No problem. No WONDER the Etrac guys can fly through the trash, and dig the silver. They clearly are able to sort through the junk and find the good stuff more efficiently than I am, and while some is their level of experience, I am now CONVINCED that a big part of it is the superior information and superior ability to customize the machine that the Etrac users can take advantage of. I am becoming a big believer in the multi-frequency approach to detectors. It just seems to allow for superior ability to identify and discriminate targets. Again, I have virtually NEVER had a case where, when a silver coin is located in the ground by an Etrac, that I also cannot hear it -- and would have dug it. The F70's issue (at least with me as the user ) is NOT any inability to identify a good target, and is NOT any issue with depth. It's PLENTY deep, and hears a good target PLENTY well. The issue is, there are simply TOO MANY high tones/chirps/peeps that force me to constantly stop, and try to sort through them, and try to figure out which are real, which are falses, which are good targets, which are flat iron/screwcaps/nails -- whereas these issues seem to be far less frequent and far less difficult to sort through when using an Etrac. Am I off base here?

To conclude...from my limited experience, I simply find it amazing (assuming the scenario of a trashy park with widely scattered silver coins amidst every conceivable type of junk) that anyone would feel that an F70/75/T2 could out-do an an Etrac (i.e. that an Etrac would not be the preferred machine.) Again, are these Fisher/Tek machines just as deep? YES. Do they hear a good target just as well? YES. But are they able to do a better job of moving productively through a junky area, identifying and/or discriminating the trash, and sniffing out the goodies? In other words, bettering the Etrac in terms of the time spent sorting the trash from the treasure ? NO WAY, in my opinion. Obviously, the experience of the user matters, but given an equally experienced F70/75/T2 user and Etrac user, I can't imagine that over time, the trash to treasure ratio would be equal (again -- in the silver coin shooting of a trashy park scenario).

We seem to be thinking along similar lines, j.t. Maybe some more folks will chime in. I understand that before spending $1500, you need to sort the hype from the truth. It's a big chunk of change. There's no question in my mind which machine will do a better job in my type of hunting, in my type of ground. But that's just me. I like my Fishers. But the Etrac is IMO superior.

Steve

Basically when the E-Trac 'nulls', the threshold sound disappears when the unit goes over a discriminated target. One of the most important things to remember, is when you hit an area where the unit starts to null, that you attack that area from different angles.

I have tested as well as found good targets in the field, that were right next to discriminated out targets on the matrix( ie, nails, iron, small foil, etc.) by hitting the location North, South, East, West and diagonally. The DD coil will react differently when going over a nail point to point vs. across the body of it. When sweeping past the nail point to point and a coin is laying right next to one of the end points of the nail, the coin may get masked. If hit from several other angles, the coin may be located.

Also, if one is hunting an older area with a potential for old coins, or the beach where gold can be found, and there are patches of areas that are nulling, switch to Quick Mask ( wide open, no discrimination) to get an idea of the targets that are nulling out.

Being primarily a beach hunter, I tried the E-Trac on a salt water beach, in two tone ferrous, almost fully wide open ( first 2 lines blacked out) and dug some really deep nickels and sinkers which is a very good sign the unit would sniff out med-large gold rings.

However, I bought my E-Trac for hunting on land. Don't want the salt environment to ruin it but I may bring it out there every once in a while.

therover --

Thanks for that info. A null being any target discriminated out makes sense. Attacking from all 4 angles also makes sense, given how the coil will react differently to a different orientation of the target.

Thanks for that info, and I was unaware of the "quick mask" feature.

Steve

and here's precisely why I throw in that comment. I've bought usually several examples of just about everything out there and I do provide my opinion sometimes, although not near as often as what I used to because you have no idea how often someone asks for an opinion, they get it provided to them, and then ultimately doesn't like the detector after they take the plunge. It happens a lot! I know many others have experienced the same thing. There is nothing wrong with that but it's just a reminder that ultimately, the persons take on a detector will be based on usage in conjunction with their needs and skills, not what they hear, nor is what they hear any guarantee that they will love or hate any certain detector. There really is no cutting corners here or anywhere else. The internet cannot do the work or minimize the risk for you. Hoards of E-Trac info has been out there for a long time but none of it, mine included, has the power to ultimately impact a another persons opinion of it. I completely understand the $1500 hurdle being a high one but that is a separate issue. You can always buy a used one for a good price, use it for awhile and if you don't like it, flip it without much if any loss. If you do wind up loving it, you can then always get your money back out of the used one and put it towards a new one where you'll have the warrantee.

BuckeyeBrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and here's precisely why I throw in that comment.
> I've bought usually several examples of just about
> everything out there and I do provide my opinion
> sometimes, although not near as often as what I
> used to because you have no idea how often someone
> asks for an opinion, they get it provided to them,
> and then ultimately doesn't like the detector
> after they take the plunge. It happens a lot! I
> know many others have experienced the same thing.
> There is nothing wrong with that but it's just a
> reminder that ultimately, the persons take on a
> detector will be based on usage in conjunction
> with their needs and skills, not what they hear,
> nor is what they hear any guarantee that they will
> love or hate any certain detector. There really is
> no cutting corners here or anywhere else. The
> internet cannot do the work or minimize the risk
> for you. Hoards of E-Trac info has been out there
> for a long time but none of it, mine included, has
> the power to ultimately impact a another persons
> opinion of it. I completely understand the $1500
> hurdle being a high one but that is a separate
> issue. You can always buy a used one for a good
> price, use it for awhile and if you don't like it,
> flip it without much if any loss. If you do wind
> up loving it, you can then always get your money
> back out of the used one and put it towards a new
> one where you'll have the warrantee.

Excellent, excellent statement/advice Brad.---------Del

It is common knowlege to E Trac users that you will find more GOOD targets by using judicial discrimination , and discriminaton is highly reccomended !!....... Example : .....Take a hole where there is a Silver dime and a couple of BIG nails nearby that in area are as large or larger than the dime ..... In All Metal mode or Quick Mask as the E Trac calls it , if the Quick Mask is wide open ( Zero Discrimination ) there is a chance that the nails might be heard and overpower the dime .....You may hear a hint of high coin tone , but perhaps not .......Now , if nails are discrimninated OUT of the equation which is easy to do ( there is a nail program sent to you on the E Trac that you can add to your own program ) The only thing left for the E Trac to ring out on is the coin !!...... You are not discriminating any other targets except nails if you so choose ....You can mix and match what you want to discriminate .....Try that with any other machine other than a Minelab with the matrix that it uses ..... Sure the F75 and the other single frequncy machines are fast and deep , but you have to listen thru all the other noise to try to hear thru the mess to hear a good target ,and if you discriminate out some bad targets , you might take out some good targets too ....... How many numbers are in the typical single frequency scale for you to choose from when discriminating ? ......100 ? ......When you discriminate using an E Trac , it has a Matrix that is made up of little squares. and each square indicates what a target is !!......One little square is what a nickel is !!......There are 1,750 OF THESE SQUARES !!......Do you think that the E Trac has an edge on discrimination ? ....You bet it does !!..... My AT Pro is a LOT faster than my E Trac ,but what good is fast when you have to listen to so much NOISE in the background ......Again , there are some of you that are use to this Noies and can tune it out in your head , but not me ....Your machine may be faster , but you will be hunting SLOWER because you have so much to listen to ..... I will be covering FAR MORE territory than you will with your FAST machine in a trashy setting ..... Again , I will say that some like to hunt this way, but it is SURELY not for me .....The F75 and other machines may be deep , but they are not going to be that deep with trash in the way, and you will be talking to yourself if you hunt in any of the parks in NYC .....I use my AT Pro on the beach where there are far less targets to hit ....I can move faster in that situation than I can with my E Trac simply becuase the AT Pro is a faster machine , and much lighter .... I don't have to worry about all the additional noises , because there are not that many targets to be concerned with ........Jim

As stated above, the e-trac will null (threshold goes silent) when going over a discriminated target. But keep in mind, that the E-trac isn't shutting down during this period, as with some detectors, it will still signal if it picks up a good signal while it is in a 'nulled' state.

On the subjective side of things, I pick up good targets under, on top of, beside, with, one or more discrimated targets all the time. The detector is nulled and 'bing', a good signal comes through. Sometimes the null item is small, other times, large. It is common, not unusual. I have a Pistol Probe (Pulse Induction, all metal) pinpointer and it is more common than not for me to find multiple metallic items in a hole when recovering a good target. I put the rusty nail or whatever in the junk pocket and the coin, token or whatever in the keeper pocket. I have seen this so many times I think of it as just the way it works.

That being said, I've not lost any sleep over the 'recovery' speed of the e-trac vs. the other detector offerings out there or the results of bench tests that show that the e-trac won't find a good target in amongst multiple rusty nails. I experience otherwise.

Anyway, JT, I don't know if the e-trac is the detector of choice for you, there are lots of considerations when making a decision like this. If you are able to find somebody local that has an e-trac, and some other detectors you are looking at, perhaps they'd let you go on a ride-along with them and have a few swings and see what you think.

Good luck out there,

Gonebeepin'

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just one more good target before I go.

JT i dont know if there is a edge with the ET in our mild soil.
You can buy used and try it and resell it with little loss.

I had one did not like the weight or the speed.
I swing a CZ with a 12in coil at the beach so its not that i cant handle it.
But the beach is flat. Hunt if a stubble field and not much fun.

I was looking at an etrac last year, looked at the used ones, could not afford either, settled for a used safari, which I could afford. Not as nice as the top machines, but Im satisfied.

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> j.t. --
>
> Interesting thread. I understand where you are,
> and I may be there before long, too!
>
> I have not only READ about the "silver-sniffing"
> ability of the Etracs, but have also seen
> firsthand my fellow hunters with Etracs
> consistently pull out the silver from trashy
> parks.
>
> I got a chance to use one of their Etracs today.
> I liked it. Heavy, but I really liked the tones,
> the info available...I still dug some trash, but
> it was mostly due to inexperience I think. I was
> running a pretty "open" screen, everything was
> "accepted" except for high ferrous numbers.
>
> But something I don't understand -- the "null"
> issue. I heard it frequently -- you lose the
> "threshold" and just hear "nothing." I don't
> understand for sure what's going on there. The
> "null" seems to be spoken of on this forum as a
> "bad" thing -- a negative trait. I don't, though,
> get the impression that the guys I know using
> Etracs consider this a negative. Can someone tell
> me what this "nulling" is and why it is "bad?" Do
> I understand the "negative" to be that when the
> Etrac is "nulling," it's due to iron, and thus it
> may be "missing" anything good that might be
> co-located?
>
> To be honest, using my F70, I have rarely, rarely
> been able to successfully locate a coin under/near
> a nail. For me, when in the trash, there is SO
> much going on, audio-wise, that I simply cannot
> differentiate. Which "highs mixed with lows" are
> simply iron mixed with high falsing (my experience
> has been that this is 99% of such tone mixtures),
> and which "highs mixed with lows" are an
> occasional co-location of non-ferrous and ferrous
> targets? The "iron false" high chirps that are
> ALMOST ALWAYS there, mixed in with the low tones,
> are SO frequent, that I have nearly given up
> trying to pick the good stuff from the trash. For
> me, it would be analagous to trying to find a
> single gold ring in a park just FILLED with foil,
> pull tabs, and nickels. 99% of the mid tones you
> would dig would be trash. Same thing in these
> "low tone, high tone" mixture signals. They are
> CONSTANT, and for me, RARELY productive. I spend
> SO much time on them, that it eats up all my
> hunting time and meanwhile I have found next to
> nothing (having covered so little ground). Only
> when I choose to "cherry pick only" do I actually
> manage to cover any ground and find a few good
> targets.
>
> What is my point? Well, for me, given that this
> is supposed to be a main "strength" of an F-series
> machine, (picking the goodies from the trash), I
> simply haven't been able to make this work. So,
> from this perspective, while some accuse the Etrac
> of being "slow" -- missing coins co-located with
> iron, I don't think it would be much of a problem
> for me personally; again, because I have shown
> little ability to use this supposed strength of
> the F70, anyway. Unless I get a nice, repeatable
> high tone, my success at trying to find a good
> target (by digging the "iffy," occasional high
> tones amongst the rusty iron) has honestly been
> next to zero. And believe me, I am listening VERY
> intently. Maybe not "intelligently" -- as a
> highly experienced user would, but I do listen
> very carefully to all the tones. I'm trying so
> hard to sort out any "better"-sounding tone
> amongst the trash, that like I've mentioned in
> other posts, I find myself constantly mired down
> in the junk (I keep thinking I'll find a
> partially-masked coin, hunting behind those
> Etracs, that they may have missed -- but it has
> not happened, period). And again, the Etrac users
> I hunt with simply do not have the problems with
> trash that I do. I experienced it today, while
> using the Etrac. WAY less noise, WAY more
> information available. I even went back over a
> spot, with the Etrac, that a half hour before I
> was just BARRAGED with while using my F70, so
> noisy and confusing that I couldn't even hunt
> there. The Etrac was, on the other hand, in that
> same spot, simply, well-behaved. No problem. No
> WONDER the Etrac guys can fly through the trash,
> and dig the silver. They clearly are able to sort
> through the junk and find the good stuff more
> efficiently than I am, and while some is their
> level of experience, I am now CONVINCED that a big
> part of it is the superior information and
> superior ability to customize the machine that the
> Etrac users can take advantage of. I am becoming
> a big believer in the multi-frequency approach to
> detectors. It just seems to allow for superior
> ability to identify and discriminate targets.
> Again, I have virtually NEVER had a case where,
> when a silver coin is located in the ground by an
> Etrac, that I also cannot hear it -- and would
> have dug it. The F70's issue (at least with me as
> the user ) is NOT any inability to identify a
> good target, and is NOT any issue with depth.
> It's PLENTY deep, and hears a good target PLENTY
> well. The issue is, there are simply TOO MANY
> high tones/chirps/peeps that force me to
> constantly stop, and try to sort through them, and
> try to figure out which are real, which are
> falses, which are good targets, which are flat
> iron/screwcaps/nails -- whereas these issues seem
> to be far less frequent and far less difficult to
> sort through when using an Etrac. Am I off base
> here?
>
> To conclude...from my limited experience, I simply
> find it amazing (assuming the scenario of a trashy
> park with widely scattered silver coins amidst
> every conceivable type of junk) that anyone would
> feel that an F70/75/T2 could out-do an an Etrac
> (i.e. that an Etrac would not be the preferred
> machine.) Again, are these Fisher/Tek machines
> just as deep? YES. Do they hear a good target
> just as well? YES. But are they able to do a
> better job of moving productively through a junky
> area, identifying and/or discriminating the trash,
> and sniffing out the goodies? In other words,
> bettering the Etrac in terms of the time spent
> sorting the trash from the treasure ? NO WAY, in
> my opinion. Obviously, the experience of the user
> matters, but given an equally experienced
> F70/75/T2 user and Etrac user, I can't imagine
> that over time, the trash to treasure ratio would
> be equal (again -- in the silver coin shooting of
> a trashy park scenario).
>
> We seem to be thinking along similar lines, j.t.
> Maybe some more folks will chime in. I understand
> that before spending $1500, you need to sort the
> hype from the truth. It's a big chunk of change.
> There's no question in my mind which machine will
> do a better job in my type of hunting, in my type
> of ground. But that's just me. I like my
> Fishers. But the Etrac is IMO superior.
>
> Steve


outstanding post steve!..you echo my sentiments exactly!
i am curious as hell about the "alleged" performance of the e-trac in trash!..i state 'alleged"
because i DON'T own one,and MUST believe what i am reading in the forums!.i can tell you that IF this detector
is that 'good" in the junk,WHY is it that ALL experienced hunters are NOT using it!..i have been a dedicated coin hunter for over
30 years,and IF this (s.o.b) is REALLY that good,then you can bet the farm,I WANT one!..hopefully these comments will open a few doors,and get some "experienced"
feedback on this most interesting information!..yes!..1,500.00 isn't "short" money,but guys who have 'em seem to love 'em,weight,and all!..just sayin!

(h.h.!)
j.t.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 12:20AM by jmaryt.

For those that are interested.......I am heavily REevaluating the E-TRAC. Some points of potential interest:

The E-TRAC will detect a clad dime to a max of 12.4" in Florida dirt.
Will not unmask the clad dime (in the complex test-garden set-up in the DVD).
SunRay X-5 (5") coil will unmask clad dime in complex test-garden with ease/clarity......nearly as good as F75 w/5" DD coil.
Audio Menu "Conduct" is a nightmare whilst in the presense of nails/iron.
Audio Menu "Ferrous" provides substantially better human intelligibility factor.
QuickMask is a MAJOR feature if used properly.
SunRay X-5 (5") coil will detect a clad dime to a max depth of 11.0" WITHOUT coil cover. (((Will not detect 11.0" deep dime with coil cover))).
Auto-Sensitivity is extremely conservative (Manual Sens is nearly a requirement).
Some loss of depth/performance whilst increasing Disc. (Not as bad as most other units; yet, does occur).

Some of my settings: Multi-tone, Recovery = "Fast", QuickMask, Manual Sens ('30' most of the time......with '25' minimum), Ferrous, Trash Density = "Hi", Ground = "Neutral", Variability = '30', Response Range = "Long".

With all of the special software for infinite special programming; I still find QuickMask the favored set-up. Very powerful mode.

The advice Rover gave is similar to what I said to you regarding roping off a 6-9 sq ft area, and hitting it from every angle (0-90-180-270 degree) sweeps. Time consuming, but effective. I like to use the technique near old trees. First with a normal size coil, then with a mini-coil. Works really well in sidewalk parking strips too. Strips have a built in roping, the sidewalk & curb....lol. This technique is how I nailed a walking liberty half last year. My E-Trac buddy went over that spot & missed it. He was suprised The unit was a 18 yr old White's Silver Eagle with disc set to eliminate pull tabs. And I had already swept that spot from 2 different angles, third angle was a charm. Coin was approx 7" deep.
Whoops!! I forgot to add.....there was a small nail approx 1 " away from the coin.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 02:53AM by TerraDigger.

That setting audio long, interesting, I have been using it since I first got
my XS some 10 years ago.
It is called audio 1 on the XS.
Wonder when FT will leak out info on the new detector?

Question for Tom D.

Did you test it on a nickel or low conductor? I find the Explorer SE very weak on lower conductors. The ID on nickels drops very quick in my dirt. I only have 2 bars on the Fe3O4 meter and a 61 GB so it is not that bad.

Tommy C.
(southernexplorer)
Deus - Etrac - GPX 5000

So Tom, if you hunt auto+3, what do you typically see in sensitivity in your hunting haunts?

Also, instead of me trying to find it somewhere in your 3000+ posts, could you please post the link to your original E-Trac evaluation?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 03:09AM by BuckeyeBrad.

BuckeyeBrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and here's precisely why I throw in that comment.
> I've bought usually several examples of just about
> everything out there and I do provide my opinion
> sometimes, although not near as often as what I
> used to because you have no idea how often someone
> asks for an opinion, they get it provided to them,
> and then ultimately doesn't like the detector
> after they take the plunge. It happens a lot! I
> know many others have experienced the same thing.
> There is nothing wrong with that but it's just a
> reminder that ultimately, the persons take on a
> detector will be based on usage in conjunction
> with their needs and skills, not what they hear,
> nor is what they hear any guarantee that they will
> love or hate any certain detector. There really is
> no cutting corners here or anywhere else. The
> internet cannot do the work or minimize the risk
> for you. Hoards of E-Trac info has been out there
> for a long time but none of it, mine included, has
> the power to ultimately impact a another persons
> opinion of it. I completely understand the $1500
> hurdle being a high one but that is a separate
> issue. You can always buy a used one for a good
> price, use it for awhile and if you don't like it,
> flip it without much if any loss. If you do wind
> up loving it, you can then always get your money
> back out of the used one and put it towards a new
> one where you'll have the warrantee.


as mentioned,i appreciate and thankyou for your input,however,i don't consider the price of the detector a "separate issue!"
1,500.00 is a lot of "scratch" for me,and even used ones will go for "tall" money!..i also am aware that most people on this forum
are truthful,and forthright in their expressions of user experience with regards to actual field time on various detectors.
this is my "main thrust",if you will,as to WHY i ask for their feedback...i "trust" and value what people have to say here,and
this will be taken into consideration WHEN,or IF a buying decision is made.

regards!
(h.h.!)
j.t.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 07:38AM by jmaryt.

Steve(MS) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That setting audio long, interesting, I have been
> using it since I first got
> my XS some 10 years ago.
> It is called audio 1 on the XS.
> Wonder when FT will leak out info on the new
> detector?


i am wondering same!.."smart" money says one is in "beta"
test as we speak!..wishful thinking perhaps,but if i was a "betting" man,
would say ..yes!..(can you say multi-frequency?)

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Tommy................Yes, I have performed some extensive testing on low conductors also......MUCH lower than a nickel; yet, still non-ferrous. Interesting results. Small jewelry.....and the E-TRAC is well above average in performance. Tiny jewelry.......and the E-T is dead. And..........obviously, on micro-jewelry.......the E-Trac is dead. Yet, another interesting note, I did test the E-TRAC on the 1-Gram raw gold nugget......and it'll acquire it at 6.6".........and with a ID of "10-10". That's NOT per my expectation.....hence, a interesting result. (These are all air-tests.......with settings as high as conditions allow).

Yes, Audio-1 and "LONG" audio appear to be the same. It simply means that none of the audio is 'clipped' (retention of preamble and postamble). Multi-Tone in concert with "LONG" is the hillbilly-jug-band audio of which I have become so accustomed (and welcomed) with.

I do not run Auto Sens. BUT.......to answer your question.......in my soil conditions......Auto+3 is averaging around a Sens setting of '19' in my dirt. (( This would be 16 + 3 )).

I am not that familiar with the etrac, were you in all metal mode. I have a couple friends with etracs and have buried a 1.2 gram nugget in the ground 3 inches (Nevada ground highly mineralized usually running 4 to 5 bars on my Gold Bug Software version 2) and they have a very hard time hitting it. Both have stated that it was a signal they would not normally dig. I know thats it not apples with apples but the Gb nails it even in disc mode. But boy do they kick my but in the parks with the silver. I was thinking of a Etrac a s a new machine but I am torn between it and the LTD.
Be Well
Godigit