New Fisher Manta

I've haven't been following this thread much so I'm late to the party. Hunting gold nuggets is my thing moreso than anything else. In my experience, I have paid for my gold machines with found nuggets in a very short period of time. So, while the price of a top of the line gold machine like a GPX/GPZ/SDC (VLF for serious nugget hunting is a waste of time, IMO) is eye popping, they always pay for themselves and more. If this machine ( or the Terra version) is anything like these guys say, a few grand is not an unreasonable price. Can't say the same for coin/relic machines. If the Terra version can handle mineralization as well as a GPX/GPZ/SDC and has a decent disc circuit I'm all in. That being said, the disc circuit would be the least of my concerns as a nugget shooter, in that, much of the hunting that we do is in remote areas that don't have much trash. A good disc circuit would open up some trashy areas that we tend to avoid with the current line of PI gold machines, though. Depth and stability in heavy mineralization plus coil selection would have to trump the GPX. Weight would be another consideration. Most of the guys I know ditched their GPZs after a season or two because of the weight. When you swing from first light until dark for a few days in a row weight becomes a huge factor.

I'm excited to see a new contender coming to the market. Good times ahead!

As an aside, Nugget Finder now makes a variety of coil sizes for the SDC.

Dean

A high price might not net as big a profit as a low price if not many people buy the machine. I think once the price gets above a certain level, many buyers will opt out. This would decrease profits in the long run. Detectors don't cost as much to manufacture these days as they used to and retail prices are dropping.

Badger in NH Wrote:
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> A high price might not net as big a profit as a lo
> w price if not many people buy the machine. I thin
> k once the price gets above a certain level, many
> buyers will opt out. This would decrease profits i
> n the long run. Detectors don't cost as much to ma
> nufacture these days as they used to and retail pr
> ices are dropping.


This is a basic concept in business admin. I remember discussing this in one of my college classes LOOONG ago. You, as the business own or manager, have to understand your customer and the market in order to get the most sales (lowest price) while still making a sufficient profit (highest price) per unit.

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

Most of the southern CT hunters that I talked to will not opt to buy this detector if the price is over $1500. We love our Excals, Noxs, Dual Fields, and TDI Pros (the CTX is a dying bread and we learned that spending money on a good machine did not bring more gold). The competition down here is pretty intense so the number of number of gold rings found for each of us have been down a lot since there are so many more hunters with the Noxs. I don't know how much of an advantage this machine is going to bring.

I agree that until the AQ is in the hands of serious hunters, we will have no firm basis for judging it. There are some hints, for example the Eric Foster Aquastar did amazing things for Terry in Hawaii when he was testing it 19 years ago

Here’s the kind of advantage Terry in Hawaii saw in the Eric Foster Aquastar over all other beach machines he had used. The AQ is significantly deeper than the Aquastar and will have iron ID.

“More Gold with Aquastar
Terry in Hawaii
July 10, 2000

“This morning I went to a very heavy hunted local beach and reached a goal that I had set for my self. It was easy to tell that it had been hunted last night since there was very few coins to be found. However I ran my tight pattern and I got three 14K gold rings and a 14K gold heart pendulum. The smallest ring weights 0.7 grams. This bring me up to 27 gold items in the time period from June 10th to July 10th. As many of you know that I only found 27 gold items from the first of the year until the middle of May. My goal was to equal this amount of gold finds in a month with my Aquastar. Saturday I had found several gold teeth but I don't count them since they are not jewelry.
Terry in Hawaii”

Then to sum up his time with the Aquastar, he wrote...

Re: Terry in Hawaii's 6 months of Aquastar gold
Terry in Hawaii
Date: January 17, 2001 09:48A

“I did give away two gold items and one platinum ring which are not shown. I did give away two gold items and one platinum ring which are not shown. So the grand total is 3 platinum rings and 107 gold items. There are 3 gold chains, 4 gold bracelets, 14 gold pendulums, 29 gold ear rings and ear ring post, 56 gold rings and one gold tooth crown. The two platinum rings shown are enclosed by the lower part of the large Hawaiian 14K gold bracelet.
Terry in Hawaii

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that until the AQ is in the hands of serio
> us hunters, we will have no firm basis for judging
> it. There are some hints, for example the Eric Fo
> ster Aquastar did amazing things for Terry in Hawa
> ii when he was testing it 19 years ago
>
> Here’s the kind of advantage Terry in Hawaii saw i
> n the Eric Foster Aquastar over all other beach ma
> chines he had used. The AQ is significantly deepe
> r than the Aquastar and will have iron ID.
>
> “More Gold with Aquastar
> Terry in Hawaii
> July 10, 2000
>
> “This morning I went to a very heavy hunted local
> beach and reached a goal that I had set for my sel
> f. It was easy to tell that it had been hunted las
> t night since there was very few coins to be found
> . However I ran my tight pattern and I got three 1
> 4K gold rings and a 14K gold heart pendulum. The s
> mallest ring weights 0.7 grams. This bring me u
> p to 27 gold items in the time period from June 10
> th to July 10th. As many of you know that I only f
> ound 27 gold items from the first of the year unti
> l the middle of May. My goal was to equal this
> amount of gold finds in a month with my Aquastar.
> Saturday I had found several gold teeth but I don'
> t count them since they are not jewelry.
> Terry in Hawaii”
>
> Then to sum up his time with the Aquastar, he wrot
> e...
>
> Re: Terry in Hawaii's 6 months of Aquastar gold
> Terry in Hawaii
> Date: January 17, 2001 09:48A
>
> “I did give away two gold items and one platinum r
> ing which are not shown. I did give away two gold
> items and one platinum ring which are not shown. [
> b]So the grand total is 3 platinum rings and 107 g
> old items. There are 3 gold chains, 4 gold bracele
> ts, 14 gold pendulums, 29 gold ear rings and ear r
> ing post, 56 gold rings and one gold tooth crown.
> The two platinum rings shown are enclosed by the l
> ower part of the large Hawaiian 14K gold bracelet.
> [/b]
> Terry in Hawaii

Wow, you always seem to bring back stories from years ago. I've heard many stories about the Aquastar, always wanted one just to see, just kidding (to use, yes). Would love to get my hands on the AQ if only for my vacation but that will never happen. I'm very anxious to see how this all pans out. But I hope to have a week beach hunt this fall but I guess my TDI and Equinox will be the tools I use.

Rick,

Thanks for being back good memories! I will have to see if I still have pictures of those finds. A bad virus wiped out so much stuff on my computer before I learned my lesson and started backing up on line. Bottom line, I am so waiting for the Fisher Impulse AQ to use. Because many of the Aquastar mechanical problems are solved by the Fisher Impulse AQ design. Such as coil cable failure, weight, etc. The Fisher Impulse AQ will be much easier to use. Reading between the lines what Denis has said about the latest improvements. The Fisher Impulse AQ will be my go to unit in many areas and my Equinox 800 will cover the rest of the areas that I hunt here in Hawaii.

Aloha, Terry

This will be interesting to watch especially here on Fl. Over say the past 15 years there have been more and more hunters....and better machines... they don’t get it all....true....but they really do put a hurting on most of the popular beaches grabbing up recent drops. Gold settles fast ....but fast enough? We have some old fashion hunting days with hurricanes....but will a few more inches give us .....like JAG said....$5000 of gold in a month. Another reason I’ve been pushing for better sensitivity to small gold that isn’t feet down ...but inches. If that happens I believe we could have some of the good ole days as well



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2019 07:20PM by dewcon4414.

You guys with clean white sand will appreciate the quiet and the power - that will get somewhat deeper on everything and the extra depth may unlock things unreachable before. Meanwhile in the vast area of the world where the sand is moderately to heavily mineralized, the AQ will be a revolution.

As far as mineralized beaches, I wasn’t kidding about my nickel at Coronado in San Diego - striped black sand streaks everywhere and lots of solid black stuff underneath. Quick, rough and ready experiments with a nickel - my Nox 600 in Beach 2 (the only quiet mode on that wet sand) hit the buried nickel at 7 - 8” max, The AQ hit it at 17” (and maybe 18 - hard to measure exactly) and hit it hard. And that was in October, Alexandre and the boys have been very busy since then and LE.JAG has mentioned some of the areas of progress.

It ain’t ready and it won’t be ready as soon as any of us would like.

It also won’t cost $5000 - not even close.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

lytle78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It also won’t cost $5000 - not even close.

Thank You.

Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110

Gone quite here. Any new information floating around?

El

Elbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gone quite here. Any new information floating arou
> nd?
>
> El


I think that the instant there is new info available, it will be all over every forum like wildfire. Look at how many threads erupted about the ML Vanquish as soon as the promo video released.

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

Question for Denis or Alexandre. Is the zero masking true if say a gold ring is 100% covered by iron? For instance a gold ring beneath a smashed rusty can or a rusty bottle cap? In all metal is it possible to distinguish a nonferrous target beneath nails or do you get the double blip from the iron in all cases?

Thank you for taking metal detector technology to the next level.

Kent

Just in case they don’t turn up, I can offer this. It depends on the mass and shape of the overlying ferrous material, the mass and shape of the non-ferrous target and the distance between them. I have seen demos with a pile of nails and a ring a few inches under the board the nails are on - the ring sounds off properly with the nails either silenced or giving their low tone - depending on the setting of the iron ID to mute or multitone. At some point - perhaps a piece of armor plate from the Battleship Tripitz (these were still used as temporary covers over road cuts here in Norway when I lived here in the ‘80’s) - anyway, the armor plate might mask the ring - we will have to wait until early users report their results with dozens of different experiments.

So - rusty bottle cap - special problem - funny alloys and plating - if really rusty probably not issue - rusty can smashed flat - how big, how flat, how rusty - a thousand combinations to try and so few have been tried yet.

When it is announced, information will explode - no doubt some official from Fisher and the “Euroteam” some from early users and maybe so-called “marketing testers” - folks who get to use a production model before general release so that when it is released, they can “publish” their already completed tests and impressions.

Meanwhile, us hopeful and interested enthusiasts make do with bits of information that filter out and tentative but still useful discussions about what we would like it to do, what we think is possible and what we wish were possible!!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2019 07:16PM by lytle78.

Thanks Lytle78 for the quick reply. Interesting about the Tripitz. I just watched a documentary on the sinking of the Bismarck.

I guess what I was getting at in my question was if something like a rusty can could be penetrated by the transmit signal to even make it to a ring, and if so, could the return signal make it back through the can to the detector? In the tests that I have seen, there is some of the ring that is not covered that could receive and return the pulse. I will leave it to those with more electronics knowledge than myself to tackle this question or maybe we will just have to wait and see, as you suggest.

Kent

no, what you are asking is impossible. The RF energy passing through a handful of nails is a completely different animal that seeing a piece of gold that is completely covered by a larger piece of iron (or any metal).

======================================================

You can see my videos here: [www.youtube.com]
My blog is here: [thesilverfiend.com]

======================================================

With PI detectors it is somewhat different than with VLF ones.

A PI detector pulses a high current signal, then cuts it off suddenly. The induced energy in metallic and other targets begins to decay. The receiver “samples” the signal after some few microseconds. PI detectors which have ground balance also take a second, later sample. Targets return signals which decay at different rates based on conductivity and other factors. The GB process is based on comparing the two samples. By adjusting the controls, the ground signal is eliminated.

The AQ uses early and late samples and since ferrous and high conductor target signals decay much slower than low conductors, by using the same comparison of two or more samples, they can be ignored by muting or made to give a low pitched return. The early sample contains the return from all targets, including low conductors and this signal is returned as a high pitch when Iron ID is selected. There is a limit to this - at some point the relationship of mass of the iron on top of the jewelry will effectively reduce the signal from the jewelry to the point where it is effectively masked, A smashed steel can or a large piece of sheet metal might well do it. A bunch of nails or even a large bolt probably won’t. Also, unless the ferrous target actually covers the jewelry, it will have no effect because the recovery between adjacent targets is zero since fresh pulses and analysis takes place within milliseconds - No recovery like VLF’s. Need is required.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 07:17PM by lytle78.

Always great to read your insights on this machine.

Just working out ways to illustrate things which have been explained by Eric Foster, Reg Sniff, Carl Moreland and others over the past years.

PI detectors have been neglected except as nugget hunters and beach machines - no big emphasis in either area on developing the basic technology for discrimination of ferrous material and for - who knows - further applications.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I found the largest gold class ring ever, using the White's SL set to only dig low conductors with minor adjustments. I pulled this ring from an area that had been hammered by over 10 different VLF machines and a span of 8+ years. Now I must add, the area is littered with coal waste, which creates a whole set of problems for even the most expensive VLF machines.

Read a good one today by Will Rogers......he said there are 3 kinds of men, the one that learn by reading, the few that learn by observation, and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. Im one the electric fence guys .......so i look forward to seeing for myself what this baby will do.

Dew, you may not borrow my new detectors unless you are water hunting.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

Be careful when you get a Manta - they don’t like being pee’d on - or was I thinking of stingrays.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Tom is there any other kind of hunting? BUT....if u get your hands on one before release......send it I promise to get it wet lol.

Just so long as there's no dew on it when I get it back...

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

After using the MDT..... i see some advantage to being able to notch out targets just above the high K range..... 22 and 24K. BUT..... because of WEIGHT these targets will sink to their equal weight. If the AQ IDs the same in disc as AM depth wise....... but in disc mode it knocks out those high K targets..... whose going to take another scoop off? Even if we did ..... it appears they will be disc out when switching over to disc regardless of depth. Am i wrong? What was gained by NOT picking up this high K gold that weighs a lot? It appears most of that high K may be in the penny range.... and most of us dont find a penny 20" deep. BUT.... at that point when i switched to disc id know.... high K gold or at least worth checking out.... it doesnt disappear by disc. Id dig that deep target. I just feel like we are missing a window here for MUCH more pricy gold as opposed to having it shifted to tiny gold in the water if thats what we are going for HEAVY gold missed deep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2019 01:05PM by dewcon4414.

dewcon4414 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After using the MDT..... i see some advantage to b
> eing able to notch out targets just above the high
> K range..... 22 and 24K. BUT..... because of WEI
> GHT these targets will sink to their equal weight.
> If the AQ IDs the same in disc as AM depth wise...
> .... but in disc mode it knocks out those high K t
> argets..... whose going to take another scoop off?
> Even if we did ..... it appears they will be disc
> out when switching over to disc regardless of dept
> h. Am i wrong? What was gained by NOT picking up
> this high K gold that weighs a lot? It appears m
> ost of that high K may be in the penny range.... a
> nd most of us dont find a penny 20" deep. BUT....
> at that point when i switched to disc id know....
> high K gold or at least worth checking out.... it
> doesnt disappear by disc. Id dig that deep target
> . I just feel like we are missing a window here f
> or MUCH more pricy gold as opposed to having it sh
> ifted to tiny gold in the water if thats what we a
> re going for HEAVY gold missed deep.

I don't see very many High "K" golds being posted, or found by anyone so I don't see a problem, besides all I want from the "AQ" is killer depth. No discrimination needed..

Can you tell I'm getting jumpy, I'm going to miss three days of hunting because of bad east winds

Blood Member of RingKeepers
2020......Gold Rings....73....Misc Gold 1 .......Silvers ...110

I won't be needing any disc either.

I just hope the cost of the machine doesn't discriminate me out.

Joe....... ever think thats because it is DEEPER? Joe this aint chump change tiny gold ....we could be talking about HEAVY 22 or 24K. But..... maybe tourism is changing in my area. Older areas may well NOT have this heavy gold. Ive picked more of it up in the past year or so with the Nox and now the MDT. This machine thou offers ...... REVERSE disc much like the Xcal with a lot of alleged depth. Can someone tell me ...... regardless of where they set the disc for HIGH conducts will iron still bleed thru (wrap around) and be heard? Or has it been set just below the 24K range so it wont and thats why it maybe missed?

No one digs it all..... we all make decisions based on what we hear... and we all leave targets. Thou some do dig ALL repeatable ones. Ill pass up a KNOWN piece of iron and shallow bottle cap....... most other targets i check carefully. Digging it all is why most of us DONT use a PI. At the end of the day..... i believe covering more area is about as profitable with the depth and disc we currently get. It will be interesting to see just how much trash we have to sift thru....... OR not depending on how much sand is covering targets. Here we might just find 20" even isnt enough to get us there. BUT..... its got to help.

Joe..... maybe we are in that 6mos window for Christmas. My dad used to say....... dont let that money burn a hole in your pocket lol.

No “wrap around”. That’s a feature of frequency based discrimination. This thing has time based sensing. Strong pulse - sharp cutoff - One early sample and one later one. Some hardware and software magic and long persisting signals and fast decaying ones are separated according to the setting of the Iron Mute control from none through weak to strong.

How is this done? Magic - or some Minelab mumbo jumbo - or maybe Fisher will tell us. The point is - it is done. That was already proved with prototypes 5 years ago.

The production program will follow - not soon enough for me and many others, but it will follow.

And then.....

What will it cost?

What will early “marketing testers” say about it and will they be folks with enough credibility to be believed?

Will it be in short supply or will you be able to fork over your bucks whenever you want and get one?

If I knew any of the answers to these questions, I wouldn’t say a work - Juarez is just across the Rio Bravo from El Paso and there are some folks there who know how to find Gold Canyon AZ. Lol!

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2019 08:00PM by lytle78.