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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2021 10:17AM
Thanks for coming over Cliff. Two heads are better than one when highlighting a machine and what its abilities are. We both know .... nothing beats hands on now thou once you have read the manual with this machine. I still like the uniqueness of the machine that makes it fun to us. I believe Phil said he had a few of the 12" coils as well. Cliff brought his machine along which helped because it has the various salt balance settings by frequency and his had SteveGs new shaft and the 12" coil set up. I agree..... that new battery box is slick and has far more thread to complete the waterproofing of the machine. Ive not really heard as to how deep its rated to, but it is fully waterproof (correct me if im wrong Tom) now. Neither of us had been to Phils place in Tampa. He supports several websites as well as doing Treasure Talk and likely is as known as KelleyCo by most Florida hunters. So we now have 3 dealers i believe here in Florida for the machine. Im with you Cliff..... way to go Dimitar.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2021 11:11AM
Thanks for taking the time to go to Tampa and meet with Phil! Good to see more dealers coming onboard with the Tarsacci. Due to its flagship status....... it is inevitable.
The Tarsacci has always been waterproof. It's just that........ The new style battery cap & compartment.......should make it even more waterproof. On my particular unit...... Dimitar removed the speaker and blocked off this area.......making it yet, another increment waterproof. This may become 'standard'..... as most folks use headphones anyway. The only time I would use the speaker...... is only if I am demonstrating the unit to someone. I never had any problems with the 1280X, CZ-20 and CZ-21 that has no speaker.

As far as inland/turf/dirt hunting....... I find myself using the Tarsacci extensively. Much more than ever expected. It's one of THE best (deep) relic hunters (((and old coins))) on planet Earth. I have yet to take the 12" coil off of my unit....... for nearly a year.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 22, 2021 08:36AM
Some tip and tricks. English subtitles:

[youtu.be]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 24, 2021 04:34AM
Dew,

Do you or Cliff have a link to the show with Phil?

Thanks!

Steve
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 24, 2021 07:30AM
Steve, here is a link to the show Treasure Talk that Dimitar was on. IF the link doesn't work, just search for the treasure talk channel on youtube and search through the videos of the shows.

[www.youtube.com]

Dew and I weren't on the show, we just went to help out with settings and hands on showing Phil the machine so he would be better prepared for his first hunt and to help others with settings right out of the box.

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 24, 2021 09:39AM
Im hoping Phil reaches out to Cliff since hes hunting in the same area for a hunt. Makes it a much fast learning process. The two of us can answer most questions about beach hunting with the machine..... but im sure he will have to reach out to Dimitar or others for running it in the dirt for those customers. For us its pretty much set and go. As you have seen the machine is very flexible Steve especially if you really get into it as i know you will.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 24, 2021 06:00PM
Cliff,

Thanks for the link!

Dew,

Lots of learning ahead of me, but what little testing I have managed so far has been quite encouraging, as far as its capabilities...

Steve
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 10, 2021 05:35PM
I have been scratching my head over the Tarsacci for quite some time....... in regards to relic hunting and its unique abilities. A lot of the data/performance ..... I 'somewhat' know and expect; yet, there's been some unfilled holes in the understanding of 'what' and 'why' is it doing certain things....... and ..... these things are different from VLF and SMF/VLF based platforms. In a nutshell...... because of the uniqueness of the Tarsacci's Operating System . , . , . , . , . , . , . , my 'takeaway' is as follows:

Targets of high density (lead, gold, platinum)........... and targets that have been annealed (ie: coins are produced under 50,000 PSI)........ the Tarsacci has the greatest of ease in detecting. Yes, other detectors can also detect these same targets; yet, not to the order-of-magnitude of the Tarsacci's O.S.
In addition........ I accentuate this ability via the selection of the lowest operating frequency (6.4KHz)....... and run Salt Balance on '48' (a very high setting). {{{Black Sand: OFF & Ground Balance: 750}}}. What this does is........... light low-density items such as chewing gum foil, small bits/pieces of can-slaw (aluminum shards), very rusty (and porous) nails........,,,,,,,, become harder to detect by the Tarsacci. Annealed and high-density items then become more 'sensitized' .....easier to detect. (a Double Positive: db down the bad targets.,.,.,.,., db up the good targets). This has allowed me to find targets (non-ferrous)....that no other detector will see. I have been experiencing tremendous success relic hunting (for the past 7-months) with the Tarsacci in this configuration. . . . . digging all high tones and mid tones...... for data collection, analyzation. (((Only to have my eyes "opened" to another plateau level))).

I touted the Tarsacci as the #1 wet-salt beach detector.
But I terribly downplayed (and underestimated) its #1 relic hunting abilities. I am now 'awake'!

And (once again)....... it is all because of 'time-domain'.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 10, 2021 10:05PM
How is it on micro jewelry ? Diamond studs, small gauge ladies gold chains for example ?

Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2021 10:06PM by Up to my ____ in Pulltabs, Grant.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 11, 2021 12:36AM
It's good on them....... but only in 18Khz. (((Which is what I try to run on the beach....... but usually in the winter))).
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 11, 2021 07:27AM
"I accentuate this ability via the selection of the lowest operating frequency (6.4KHz)....... and run Salt Balance on '48' (a very high setting). {{{Black Sand: OFF & Ground Balance: 750}}}"

So Tom, have you tried this setup in the water? I have every intention of giving those settings a try in the water since when hunting with Todd I end up in 6.4KHz to eliminate the cross talk of the machines. The Tarsacci continues to impress me with its ability to find the gold on hard hit beaches already worked over with numerous Excals and Equinox's.

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 11, 2021 10:25AM
What time frame dates too coins being produced under 50,000 PSI
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 11, 2021 12:45PM
VERY good....... VERY valid questions........ esp in the department of physics.

Cliff........... Nearly all gold jewelry on planet Earth ID's as 'foil'. . . . . . especially the 'lost' jewelry. If you go into any jewelry store........ and ask (the detectorists critical question): What "type" of jewelry is most replaced from folks losing it. We like to think it's rings....... but it is not. It is earrings, pendants, necklaces, charms, bracelets, anklets etc......... -------Ring losses are on the list.,.,.,.,.,., but on the bottom of the list of 'most commonly lost' jewelry.
Soooooooooo. Two things. (To finally answer your question!). I always try to run the highest freq whilst jewelry hunting. In the water....... 9-Khz is about as high as the saltwater allows. On the damp/wet slope........ I try to run 18-KHz.
Part 2: In either case......... I am not wanting/trying to eliminate 'foil'. If I were exclusively 'ring' hunting (especially for larger signet/class rings)....... then it could be beneficial to run a program that desensitizes foil.
Because wet-salt is SO violently conductive//strong.......... I use the Salt Balance to balance out the extremely highly conductive aspects of wet salt.
(((Always interesting how 'dry salt' is hardly conductive/detectable!!!))).

gman.......... REALLY good point! Annealed coins are much more modern..... and manufactured with a milled press. If you go back just a short few-hundred years...... coins were hammered........ or.........(even worse)....... poured! Molded! Whereby......... the 'pressure' of annealing is not there. If you are seeking to find Roman/Greek era coins..... they are not annealed. Your setup configuration for the Tarsacci will be a little different. You are not trying to eliminate small bits of foil (ie: silver penny). Soooooo.......... keep the Salt Balance on lower numbers (say: 14-22 range). Or...... come out of the salt mode. If hot-rocks/coke is a problem...... use the Salt Balance to mitigate/eliminate this (greater/more-major) problem. Use the Tarsacci in a configuration that is most advantageous to your intent(s)!!!
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 12, 2021 03:41PM
Gave it a try in the water Tom, just too noisy "in the water" however when checking signals to my normal SB in 9KHz, there didn't seem to be a difference on coin signals. I'll definitely try those settings on the wet sand when wet sand season comes around..... its water season right now!

Oh, 750 GB didn't work over this side....back to 600.

Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 13, 2021 09:51PM
Cliff.... odd that didnt work. 6.5Khz is kind of a good general freq.... giving good depth while reducing EMI. Then the salt setting.... that would concern me more about loosing small gold than not running smoothly. Think the GB being that high did it.... but ive GBed at the waters edge and it can be way up there. Were you using the 12" coil? They seem to react a little different to me.... reverse sometime where you have to reduce the SB rather than increase it.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 14, 2021 12:10AM
Cliff........ I do not recommend high Salt Balance numbers in the water (or even on the wet-slope). On the beach....... you need to be salt balanced!
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 14, 2021 04:06AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cliff........ I do not recommend high Salt Balance
> numbers in the water (or even on the wet-slope). O
> n the beach....... you need to be salt balanced!


Didn't waste much of the hunt trying it Tom... I'm quite sure the "Dry" Salt Sand would be different however "IF" wet (activated/in solution) by rain, would be quite similar to using a high salt balance in the water or on the wet salt sand...
Cliff
JCR
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 16, 2021 02:11PM
I received my unit w/ 12" coil last week. I have a few hours on it now getting familiar with it. I can see it is going to be very useful on my difficult Iron ore/ Red dirt housesites that have been thinned out by the Anfibio Multi & Vista X. I am having a lot of fun learning with it despite the oppressive humidity & heat.

Chris
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 17, 2021 02:25AM
Another data-point on the Tarsacci:

With the bulk of the inland/dirt sites that I hunt (and probably what most others hunt).......... I find the "Mixed Mode" to be about 8X more fatiguing than "Disc Mode". Mixed Mode presents a lot more audio (that can be quite intelligent-bearing).......yet; you will audibly 'fatigue-out' in short order. Heads-up!
JCR
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 17, 2021 02:36AM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another data-point on the Tarsacci:
>
> With the bulk of the inland/dirt sites that I hunt
> (and probably what most others hunt).......... I f
> ind the "Mixed Mode" to be about 8X more fatiguing
> than "Disc Mode". Mixed Mode presents a lot more a
> udio (that can be quite intelligent-bearing)......
> .yet; you will audibly 'fatigue-out' in short orde
> r. Heads-up!


I can see where this would be the case. I have been wondering if it is possible for Mixed Mode to be presented in True Stereo with the Disc channel in one ear & the AM in the other. With the right Headphones having independent volume control for each side you could balance the audio to make it more intelligible. I am having a hard time hearing the Disc on fainter targets. The AM side is much stronger to me.

Chris
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 17, 2021 06:09AM
Perfect idea. Stereo mixed mode is great. But also more difficult and should to be like option for experience users.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
August 18, 2021 01:20AM
Chris....... that is true. Whilst in Mixed Mode...... faint/deep non-ferrous targets (the center-tone)..... is very short in duration..... and weaker audio (modulated)....... making the Mixed Mode All-Metal tone be the dominant (almost overpowering) audio response; hence/subsequently....... washing out (overpowering) the center ID tone. And THAT'S one of the primary reasons why I like the Disc Mode. The loud audio of the All-Metal tone is completely removed whilst in Disc Mode....... leaving ONLY the ID tone. A substantial gain in audible human intelligibility....... and a substantial reduction in audio fatigue.
If I am in fairly clean sites......... I 'may' choose to use the Mixed Mode.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 02:30PM
Had another unique documentable experience yesterday with the MDT. I had detected a high-tone target whilst in 6-KHz, Salt Balance 48, Ground Balance 750 and Disc Mode. Sounded to be about a 7" deep coin signal. Specifically because of 'where' this target was...... (((in a small front lawn of a 1910 home)))........ triggered me to go get the original detector that I had used several years ago......and completely sanitized this small (40'x40') front lawn. The original detector (CZ-3D) was almost completely silent on this target. About 35 sweeps of this target......and the CZ reported the audio response of 'iron'..... on 4 of the 35 sweeps. All other sweeps..... the CZ remained completely silent. MDT was constant/reliable/repeatable high-tone. I then dug a 10" diameter plug..... by about 5"-6" deep. MDT still reporting high-tone in the hole (and nothing in the plug). CZ NOW reports a clear distinct high-tone in the hole. Both the CZ & MDT report nothing in the plug. Pinpointer expresses a target almost dead-center of the bottom of the hole..... about 1-1/2" deeper. This is a good sign. (((If the target was in the side wall of the hole...... I would have fully suspected a nail))). Target turns out to be a 1964 copper coin (penny) laying flat..... at about 7" deep. Concerned and flustered ......... I NEEDED an 'answer'. So I slowly started to scrape the bottom of the excavated plug....... and almost immediately found a chunk of (almost completely) disintegrated iron.......about the size of my thumb. It was at a depth of nearly 5" deep. The large iron item was so badly decomposed that..... with a fair amount of strength..... I managed to snap it in half.....,,,,,,,, then entirely scrape/crumble it apart.
I got my answer!
Moral of the story:

CZ = VLF (and SMF)
MDT = Time Domain

((( I can see 'why' the guys in Europe are having really good success with the Tarsacci. )))
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 02:36PM
I am also recently experimenting with 6khz. Old, walked place. 10 x 30 meters. The last 5 years all the time. A pair of broken coins and seals came out. The question is, should the iron content be high, do not switch to 12-18 khz?
JCR
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 03:21PM
Thank you for the detailed description of finding that Penny. I am still very early in the MDT learning experience. Were the GB & SB settings you were using set to the site's natural requirements or had you adjusted to compensate for Iron/trash or other intended performance adjustment? I am to the point in my self education of trying to decide whether to set up for the natural ground conditions and let the MDT do it's thing or try to tweak the GB/SB to compensate for small Iron trash. So far I have been hunting my toughest red dirt, Iron trashed sites with good success but nothing magical. I plan to hunt one of my low mineral sandy iron sites this evening for the first time with the MDT. Any remaining targets will be masked as you described your 08/31 Penny and/or deep. This site has been worked hard with Anfibio & Vista X both with multiple coils small to larger than stock.

Chris
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 03:59PM
Shelton and Chris,

I am using Ground Balance and Salt Balance in a non-standard fashion. I am using it in the capacity of "desensitizing to foil" and "desensitizing to iron"...... respectively. I have found this to work very well in no mineralization, low mineralization and medium mineralization. (Fe3O4 3-bar dirt).
High mineralization (blood-red clay!!!) may be a different story!
6-Khz detunes small foil...... and tunes for copper/silver coins!
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 04:16PM
NASA-Tom,

Could you elaborate just a bit? I know what you are saying/meaning when you say you are using salt balance in non-standard fashion to desensitize to foil and iron. But, in what way are setting up ground balance to accomplish something similar?

Steve
JCR
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 04:20PM
I know it would be site specific but can you give some detail on the method behind the madness? Some general guidelines to mitigate the Iron, Foil?

Chris
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 08:09PM
Steve & Chris.......... try this:

Take a piece of chewing gum foil (not wadded up). Put Tarsacci on 6.4-Khz. Pass the chewing gum foil by the coil........and start adjusting the Salt Balance. Watch what happens to the detection of the foil.......with low Salt Balance numbers. Watch what happens to the detection of the foil ...... with high Salt Balance numbers. (((High SB numbers will 'detune' the foil))).

ALSO........ do the same with Ground Balance...... except..... do NOT use foil. Instead........ use a piece of ferrite. Adjust your Ground Balance the full spectrum.......whilst passing a piece of ferrite by the coil. ((( It may be better to 'bob' the ferrite to/from the coil; yet, same physics principle is still upheld. ))) Leave the Ground Balance on the LEAST detection of the ferrite.

THEN GO HUNT!!! Go hunt fairly trashy areas (that have since stopped producing).

On my particular MDT........ and to my ferrite sample(s)....... they ""go away"" (are no longer detected) when my Ground Balance is on '637'. I have been trying GB of 750...... because this seems to reduce sensitivity to actual solid iron items/implements..... such as a nail.

Side-notes: You will notice...... no matter where you place the Salt Balance....... detection of copper/silver coins ..... is hardly infringed! But low conductors (possibly masking high conductors)..... nearly go away. , . , . , . , greatly reducing 'masking' of the copper/silver conductors.
JCR
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
September 01, 2021 09:25PM
Thank you for the explanation. I will try that on my site this evening & experiment further. I assume on higher mineralized ground it is best to Ground Balance to the actual soil. Maybe possible to shift the GB to some extent to get the desired Iron de-sensitization and still remain stable in relation to the minerals?

Chris
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