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ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000

Posted by NASA-Tom 
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 03:13PM
OBSERVATIONS @ 50+hrs

Used the MDT 8000 for 3hrs in 90 degree heat in the dirt.

Rusty bottle caps, solid hits at 8-10+, 27-29+, w no negative numbers, however sound is “blan” metallic, not sweet. Whipping coil over target immediately reveals to be iron, not getting fooled as much

As per Dimitar:
Invoked Salinity function, seemed to help in smaller iron
Reduced DISC to -15 to -20 in iron
Used 12khz, not digging as much tiny foil anymore, (9khz is even better) haven’t found any small gold either though.....

Coin VDI’s lower 12khz...quarters (20-21), copper cents (17-19), nickels (5-7)

Found 3 gram gold earring in 18khz 2 weeks ago, that’s a big piece of gold though.

Still haven’t found a deep coin...yet.

Deepest target was a 12” pulltab, yes disappointed, sounded pretty darn good though.

Unit is VERY stable, running between 8-7 w no (apparent) EMI

The unit is VERY robust, and well built.

I am not however to happy w the shape of the handle in the water. Wading w the control pod above water and handle below the water, I find the handle wants to twist as I’m swinging against the water. I much prefer the round rubber handle of the Equinox, I think it’s perfect.

I do think I have easy fix, which I’ll post later.

A lot more to say later....

Aaron



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2019 03:40PM by Aaron.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 06:14PM
Quote

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OBSERVATIONS @ 50+hrs...

Terrific info. Appreciate the detail on your settings and results.
Going to try that our after work and see if I can't tweak some of my settings without loss of depth and quality of signal.
Are you in Mix mode most of the time??

Peter

What was once impossible..... is now easy and obvious. BUT.......... if : You don't know...what you don't know........ it continues to appear/look impossible.
-Thomas Dankowski
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 08:29PM
Peter-

I’m only using Disc Mode, to be honest I really haven’t figured out Mixed Mode.

The following are my notes from discussions w Dimitar:

Notes from Dimitar

#Trouble w small iron#
try ground balancing over it, may or may not work
Invoke Salinity function in iron, may help
Reduce DISC to -15 to -20 in iron
Try 12khz
Lower sensitivity in high trash

#Regarding Discing Out Small Flat Foil#
Try 9k salinity 25...27 Sens 6...7 it will reduce the foil detectable range by 80...90 percent compared to salt OFF for the same settings


HH!

Aaron

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 08:49PM
Now I have to ask.....if I’m running 9khz in the water salt balance 30.....am I picking up even less foil? 80 to 90%....what kind of gold am I missing with those numbers? It’s a question I’ve always had running 9khz out there.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 08:56PM
Well, like I said I’m still looking for my first small gold (w those settings) w the Tarsacci, and I’m digging everything that sounds good and even a lot of iffy targets.

Aaron

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2019 02:27AM by Aaron.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 09:23PM
> Notes from Dimitar
>
> #Trouble w small iron#
> try ground balancing over it, may or may not work
> Invoke Salinity function in iron, may help
> Reduce DISC to -15 to -20 in iron
> Try 12khz
> Lower sensitivity in high trash



Why would reducing Disc to -15 to -20 help in iron? Wouldn't that just make you dig more iron?

What exactly is the purpose of negative discrimination and how does it affect performance?

Does negative discrimination affect depth?

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2019 03:21PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 11:19PM
Quote

Peter-

I’m only using Disc Mode, to be honest I really haven’t figured out Mixed Mode.

The following are my notes from discussions w Dimitar:
Aaron that is some great additional info. BTW I have been hanging out in Mix mode mostly as I am trying to learn how to isolate the ferrous/non ferrous signals better.
I think your info will definitely help. Will post my settings/finds as soon as i got them.
Peter

What was once impossible..... is now easy and obvious. BUT.......... if : You don't know...what you don't know........ it continues to appear/look impossible.
-Thomas Dankowski
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 05, 2019 11:42PM
Sounds good Peter.
I really didn’t start feeling comfortable w the Tarsacci till I had around 40hrs on it. You really need to just get out w it and get more time under your belt. I’ve found that w every machine I’ve ever owned that just getting out there and digging EVERYTHING that sounds good and a few that don’t really helps shorten the learning curve.

Aaron

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 06, 2019 01:35AM



I had a spare foam grip from my old CZ70, should be about perfect now.

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 07, 2019 05:42PM
Summer ocean beach season is just getting underway here. This morning I did my first actual wet sand hunt since buying the machine back in January.

I didn't find any gold but I did do some depth tests just to re-affirm the superior performance of the MDT over the Equinox on the wet sand. This time I had a friend using his Equinox 800 so I didn't have to go back and forth using two machines.

Targets were a medium sized mans 14k gold ring and a silver Washington quarter. For accuracy, the targets were attached to fabric tape measures in a way that allowed them to stay flat and not be on edge.

Results were the same as my original tests.

Gold ring - MDT 13" - EQX 10".

Silver quarter - MDT 13" - EQX 9".

I was very pleased with this. I tried all the frequencies and they all sounded the same and seemed to get the same depth which was strange. Performance differences due to frequency must be extremely subtle.

I've found that GB and SB settings don't really matter a whole lot on my beaches. I can set the GB anywhere from 550 to 650 and it it will be quiet. I just leave it at 600. I will still play with the settings occasionally but I don't think it makes much difference.

I keep SB at 25 all the time and it's perfectly stable no matter what beach I go to.

I went through a lot of frustration in the beginning and wasted a lot of time worrying about GB and SB thinking that the detector was more difficult than it actually is. I'm sure beaches in other parts of the world require a lot of precise adjustment and fine tuning to keep the machine quiet but around here, the MDT is basically a turn on and go, set it and forget it detector.

It has no depth advantage in areas of hot rocks on our beaches which is unfortunate. I doubt there is any way to remedy that, but once it gets away from the rocks and onto the wet sand, the depth is amazing.

I hunt in all metal most of the time which gives the best response to targets. The visual target ID is very accurate. The numbers bounce around on the deeper targets but I can usually tell if it's ferrous or non-ferrous.

.



Edited 19 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2019 07:48PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 08, 2019 02:41AM
From an engineering standpoint...… this data has high value!
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 09, 2019 12:08PM
NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From an engineering standpoint...… this data has h
> igh value!


Awesome! Bodes well for next version/enhance in performance. Not that’s it’s not working very well already. ;-)
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 09, 2019 12:17PM
And hopefully w/out the screw on battery cap.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 09, 2019 02:13PM
I've said this before but it's worth repeating. For the next version, I would like to see a more robust coil and coil cover, a screen that's easier to read, and a pinpoint mode that stays on when you push the button.

I really don't think it needs a speaker but if it's going to have one, it needs to be louder. A clip on or magnetic speaker that plugs in and faces the user is the way to go.

I would rather the detector not come with headphones or a backpack.

The only other thing I can think of would be to improve the tones if possible. I'm happy with the way they sound but I can imagine them sounding better.

.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 02:32PM by Badger in NH.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 09, 2019 11:52PM
The first 100 hours....

Well that is what I am calling it as I dive head first into the MDT-8000.
Hour #7


Interesting day last Sunday. Decided to hit a local park that might be a cleaner than my yard and practice looking for deepish signals.
Below are the more interesting finds. Still having issues with the different tones for pointy nails vs. deep conductor sounds.

The other variable on deeper items is how the machine processes the signal. It's almost as if the machine is getting turned off/on for a split second. The abrupt cutoff of audio is taking a little time to get use to but hopefully I will get there.

Lastly as I have said before, I have been favoring Mix mode. Upon retrieving a deeper target, (10.5") iron glob pictured below, I decided to place a clad dime at the bottom of the hole.
Of note:
Mix Mode: Target audible 75% (guess) as I rotated target.
Disc Mode: Target gone except for faint hit and not repeating in same location.
Two targets both deeper than 8" failed to pin point. (crushed cap and nail) Still able to retrieve via center of tone which was nice.

Settings:
Salt 23
12khx
TrH -1
Dsc -2
Sens 6
Gb 617




The deep sound tones in mix is starting, just starting to click. Both the 1st tone and 2nd BOTH sound faint and is my "instant dig it" tones. And repeats well as I rotate around the target.
Thanks all!!
Peter

What was once impossible..... is now easy and obvious. BUT.......... if : You don't know...what you don't know........ it continues to appear/look impossible.
-Thomas Dankowski




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2019 12:07AM by SilverPeter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 17, 2019 06:13PM
Very interesting info/comment regarding iron masking and Tarsacci machine. Thought it appropriate to be here.


i Caretaker...…… I've been meaning to answer this for quite some time now.

In a nutshell: NO.
However; it is 'known' (and "aware") within the community of detector Design Engineers.

But...……….. that being said...………….. what we HAVE done is...….. 1) envelop a tighter electromagnetic footprint emanating from the coil. 2) went back to higher Freq's. 3) Process data differently. There's other things that have changed; yet, only trace-element improvement(s) have ensued. There are principles of physics that cannot be altered/deviated from. The "BIG PICTURE" is: We are still utilizing electromagnetic energy...….injecting it into electromagnetic (ferromagnetic) iron.....,,,,,,, and trying to figure out how to NOT be inhibited (crippled) by this iron. In my (limited vision) eyes...… I believe a paradigm-shift is required ...in order to truly change this phenomenon.
With what we have done..... in the past 10 or 15 years...…. is go from about 2% unmasking abilities...…. to about 4% unmasking abilities. Yes..... this improvement is double...…. (and is a real eye-opener); yet, the big picture is: we still have 96% improvement to go.

One of the best ways to see (measure) how/if new technology has improved …...is: take the new-technology unit into a 'carpet-of-nails' site...…… grid off an area...….. and recover ALL non-ferrous targets...to the best of the new units capabilities. Compare this resultant to several other units. Then perform a Archaeological Phase-2 recovery pit dig..... so as to 'learn' the ""ratio"" of what you DID find with the detector...……. Vs...……. what you MISSED....via the Archie pit-dig. Typical numbers are: The metal detector found 4 non-ferrous targets. The Archie Phase-2 pit dig.....found another 171 non-ferrous targets. The ratio is 4:171..... and out of a area of...….say...…. 13' x 9'.
To this day...……….. folks do not know just how severe 'masking' truly is.

Minelab is the most forward-thinking ……… with plenty of funds available,...…. aggressive company...…. collectively...…. to date. The Equinox platform does indeed present a different approach … with its electronic engineering architect. When you can take the EQX equipped with the 11" coil...…. and go into carpets of nails...…. and find some non-ferrous targets.,.,.,.,.,.,. improvements certainly have been made....as compared to previous platforms. The -11" coil- ….. is the element that makes it surprising. Yes, the EQX is very specifically engineered/built around the 11" coil, yet, the other factory coils perform …… to stunning levels.

Tarsacci ……. while not the euphoric pinnacle at unmasking...…… certainly presents a paradigm-shift in how it handles bad minerals...…… and/or wet salt. In many applications...…. the Tarsacci MDT presents startling performance improvements that have never been seen/witnessed …. in our detecting history. In some (common) applications...…. the MDT is outperforming the pulse induction units. The MDT is starting to sweep-the-markets...…. and flip the Mfr C.D.E.'s up-side-down. It is (quietly) really starting to "catch-on". Just don't take the MDT into carpets of nails.

Nokta/Makro……. is the fastest growing company...…… and with VERY good unmaskers; yet, still confined within that 2% - 4% laws of physics.

Caretaker: Once again...…… in a nutshell: NO

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 03:45AM
The first 100 hours....

Well that is what I am calling it as I dive head first into the MDT-8000.
Hour #8,9




Having some interesting results/issues as I continue along..

The sensitivity of this machine is amazing. See that tiny "L" shaped piece between the two zincolns on the left pic??? Around 4" down!! OK so I need to tweak some settings to pass these up, but incredible none the less. I am really struggling with the good tone hits of deeper iron but I seem to be getting better at narrowing down the location. I am missing a Good Pinpointer though. I am finding it really necessary for the times I hit iron and can't get over the center of the target.

[youtu.be] (caution Volume)

On the video above, is a sample of the chatter I am having a hard time getting settled down. I tried ground balancing, changing frequencies to no avail.

1) Chatter (emi) issues won't go away
2) Machine seems to briefly cut out on deeper targets. (like the MDT getting switched on/off super fast.) Normal??

Current settings below:



What was once impossible..... is now easy and obvious. BUT.......... if : You don't know...what you don't know........ it continues to appear/look impossible.
-Thomas Dankowski
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 10:42AM
Peter...…… do you know if there are any buried power lines in this location? If you hold the coil vertical...… is there a EMI "change"? Any leaking powerlines near-by...…. that you can tell? Does the detector do this at other sites? (((We gotta find the problem!)))

I'll let Dimitar in on this.

Aaron. Thanks! ((( Sometimes I get yelled at..... for 'hiding' some of my posts...… especially in low-volume/low-traffic threads!!! )))
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 11:03AM
I noticed you DIDNT have the salt setting ON. You might try that. Those are really conservative settings and you have a lot better hearing than me lol. I think iron MOVING is a tell on a good many detector when iron is deep. If it moves as you circle the target, wraps around to a high digit, or disappears....good chance its iron.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 11:10AM
That is a lot of chatter. Like Tom said, sounds like EMI. There is not much you can do about that except move to a quieter area.

First thing I would do is fix that loose cable. The coil might pick that up while you swing. For me it would be very distracting to have the cable flopping around loose like that.

I think if you try to eliminate the tiny targets, you might lose some overall performance and depth. Doesn't seem like you are digging very many. Unless they are everywhere, I would keep digging them.

.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 11:51AM by Badger in NH.
cdv
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 11:29AM
Dew, although I couldn't hear what he was saying in the video, he did have salt on at 25 one time that I could see near the end of the video.
Cliff
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 11:44AM
Cliff....... you know i only look at pictures lol. That was almost impossible to see what settings were being adjusted... but obviously nothing was helping.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 01:19PM
My driveway (underground power lines to the house) will do this exact same EMI resultant to the MDT
(and all other detectors......except CZ platform).
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 18, 2019 05:26PM
Quote

Peter...…… do you know if there are any buried power lines in this location? If you hold the coil vertical...… is there a EMI "change"? Any leaking powerlines near-by...…. that you can tell? Does the detector do this at other sites? (((We gotta find the problem!)))

I'll let Dimitar in on this.

Thanks all for the great reply's. Not sure yet on what is happening with EMI as I have the same issue at two other locations. Not the end of the world, but makes it a challenge to listen for those faint-repeating targets. My first few outings in the same location gave almost no chatter at all. (Tom-I will try that)

Part of the power cut issue is hard to get use to, but I will double check connections and see if that is it. (Along with wrapping the coil cable tighter around)

Tried both Salt on and off... (Along with Black sand) No change in chatter.

While these issues with other machines would throttle any depth, or nix small conductors, the MDT still grabs the tiny items. (And depth is still amazing)

The more I use the MDT, the more I am amazed... I know I am using it in areas it was not designed for, still... It is performing at a mind blowing capacity. And I have only scratched the surface (as it were) to what this machine can do.
Peter

What was once impossible..... is now easy and obvious. BUT.......... if : You don't know...what you don't know........ it continues to appear/look impossible.
-Thomas Dankowski
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 19, 2019 01:18AM
Peter...…… Don't overtighten the battery cap; yet, try screwing it in just a slight tad more...… and see if this resolves the power cut-out issue. ((( I'm trying to troubleshoot …. over the internet! )))
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 19, 2019 09:31AM
Power cut out........ is he talking about the machine going off while using it? If so i had that issue. The metal plate was a little to tight inside the cap that makes connection. Mine got off just enough not to touch that connector on the side when screwed on. I loosened it a tad and havnt had an issue since.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 19, 2019 07:51PM
SilverPeter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote

Peter...…… do you know if there are any bur
> ied power lines in this location? If you hold the
> coil vertical...… is there a EMI "change"? Any lea
> king powerlines near-by...…. that you can tell? Do
> es the detector do this at other sites? (((We gott
> a find the problem!)))
>
> I'll let Dimitar in on this.
>
> Thanks all for the great reply's. Not sure yet on
> what is happening with EMI as I have the same issu
> e at two other locations. Not the end of the world
> , but makes it a challenge to listen for those fai
> nt-repeating targets. My first few outings in the
> same location gave almost no chatter at all. (Tom
> -I will try that)
>
> Part of the power cut issue is hard to get use to,
> but I will double check connections and see if tha
> t is it. (Along with wrapping the coil cable tight
> er around)
>
> Tried both Salt on and off... (Along with Black sa
> nd) No change in chatter.
>
> While these issues with other machines would throt
> tle any depth, or nix small conductors, the MDT st
> ill grabs the tiny items. (And depth is still amaz
> ing)
>
> The more I use the MDT, the more I am amazed... I
> know I am using it in areas it was not designed fo
> r, still... It is performing at a mind blowing cap
> acity. And I have only scratched the surface (as i
> t were) to what this machine can do.
> Peter


When you find an area where the machine is quiet and the ground relatively free of iron, try burying some coins at one inch increments starting at 8 inches to see what kind of depth you're getting.

.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 22, 2019 03:22PM
Quote

Badger in NH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
When you find an area where the machine is quiet a
nd the ground relatively free of iron, try burying
some coins at one inch increments starting at 8 in
ches to see what kind of depth you're getting.

Not much in my area yet that clean. I am still cleaning out areas in my back yard for a test garden and that has proven to take way more time than anticipated. (Attribute that to the power of the MDT)
So far depth has not been, even remotely an issue. I was volunteering much of last weekend so will be getting out more in the evenings to try some new and hopefully cleaner spots.
Thanks!
Peter
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 23, 2019 01:46AM
I need to get my unit out and use. Break in heat wave coming. I still read here picking up intel.
Watch the battery cap. Not too tight and not too loose. Too loose unit might shut down. I played with mine after reading above.
May shoot some video using Tarsacci in some what are higher Emi prone areas and see what happens. Thus far I have not had any places I couldn’t use and expect good depth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 01:48AM by tnsharpshooter.
Re: ON THE HORIZON = MDT-8000
July 23, 2019 11:40AM
Curious question. Ive been trying to find a rubber washers the proper size to fit the coil connector. The ones thus far seem to soft for the job or are a tad to big. Has anyone tried a NYLON washer? I know we used them on the AquaSound........ and i dont remember them creating anymore wear on the head than our washer, because the washers seem to wear quickly and then cutting into the lower shaft head. Nylon also seemed to reduce coil ear breakage from people CRANKING down those ears as the washer wears. This could be a better option on most machines especially with thin ears. I already use a larger nylon washer on the OUTSIDE of the ears. Tends to distribute the torque a bit better.
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