New CZ-3D calibrated properly?

I know this subject has been gone over before, But was wondering if anyone has bought a New CZ-3D in the last year or so? I heard they are back to the old method of calibration. I was wondering if it will do the dime air test at 12" or at least 11"? Just curious as might get a New one someday if this has bee resolved, or if People are just blowing smoke. Thanks.

CZ calibration - according to Dave Johnson.

Last years of Fisher - they started a “short-cut” calibration procedure which did not detect critical alignments of some of the trimmers - result - more than normal variations between units.

FT buys Fisher - not knowing this.

Production starts in El Paso.

Too many units not “up to snuff”

Customer complaints.

Dave J. looks into it - finds the “short-cut” - digs out the original calibration procedure from the old Fisher records.

El Paso implements the original calibration/test process.

According to Dave, this all happened quite a while ago - not very long after the start up of El Paso production.

Of course, the irony is that El Paso took the bad rap for the whole business - while the “sainted” Los Banos machines - many of which also suffered from the bad calibration process were at a premium

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Yes but does anyone have a New one to prove this?
I would love to see a video of one hitting a 12" -11" Dime.
Maybe someone who has a New One can speak up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 12:05AM by Harold,ILL..

i believe the factory"standard" is only 9".

Ole' Harold

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

detectingMO Wrote:
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> i believe the factory"standard" is only 9".

That sucks, even My Golden uMax is hotter than that.

i spoke with first texas a while ago,and was assured the cz3d was being calibrated properly using the original process.as harold stated,and i agree,the ONLY way to know is to have people who own the new ones to speak up,and corroborate what the factory says.until there is corroboration from users,then smart money says to just buy one from tom d.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I'd like to know this myself. There are so few detectors that match a properly calibrated CZ in stability, depth, and ease of use. You 'want' to get one but are afraid of a lemon cause if you get a lemon you basically just threw all that money away. A lemon CZ has no resale value. You can't even give it away. And Tom D. can't fix a lemon. He can tune it but he can't fix it.

Maybe a dealer can always open a box and test it for you before you buy, or you just make it plain at the outset that if its not a properly working one you ARE going to be returning it.

dunno.

HH
Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 01:30PM by Mike Hillis.

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
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> detectingMO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i believe the factory"standard" is only 9".
>
> That sucks, even My Golden uMax is hotter than tha
> t.

You must have a really super hot Golden uMax. lol

tabman

Yep, I bought it off some Guy who said it was the Hottest Golden uMax on the planet. Ha!

I tested a CZ 3D in a local detector shop recently with a plastic ruler and three targets glued to paint stir sticks.
Targets used were a men's 10 Karat gold ring, silver Canadian dime and a silver "fishscale" 5 cent piece, what would equate as a half dime in American coinage.
All three only went to 6" before dropping out.
This result was weird as I know the CZ's are generally much better that that, all the ones I have previously owned were in the 10" range on these types of targets give or take.
That was CZ 7A, CZ 5, CZ 70 Pro, CZ 20, and CZ 3D. This test was done inside the shop and I am wondering if there was sufficient silent EMI at work that it killed the target detection range?

As much as I respect Rick Kempf and his detector/detecting knowledge, I think he's wrong on this one when he insinuates that the newer cz-3ds have gotten a bad rap compared to the classic Los Banos ones.

I know there are hot FT units, I believe Ozzie has a 12.1" one if I remember correctly, but as a general rule they are not nearly as hot as the typical 1021 and some of the 1121s from Los Banos.

Tom has stated that the Los Banos units are usually quite a bit hotter than the El Paso ones. Since the cz-3d is still in production, I'm not surprised that he hasn't been more specific with the depth numbers in the newer units he's aligned and calibrated. Once the cz-3d finally goes out of production, hopefully he'll share more.

Component matching and proper tuning are the key differences. Alignment and calibration are quite a complex and time consuming procedure with these units. There was a lady named Sima who did all the tuning on the Los Banos units and apparently she was a quite a whiz at doing so. Sima was not retained when FT bought Fisher and moved production to El Paso,

With the "shortcut" procedure Dave J. described, I would make an educated guess that the early FT units would be the worst. But even after correcting the tuning procedure, all evidence I see including Tom's posts, would indicate that the newer FT El Paso units are typically not up to snuff compared to the typical Los Banos ones.

For the record I have one of the Hot FT CZ-3D's. Its a 12.1" unit on a dime. You can tell it was made right after the buy out as still has the older parts like original style arm cup and coil as they changed to a cheaper arm cup and plastic lookin' coil cable. It also feels a little heavier to Me as have picked up the Newer ones and they just feel lighter too Me anyways. At the time Tom said it was the Hottest FT He had calibrated. A lot of even 1021s are not as hot. I have had 6 and its second only to my original I bought New the first week they came out. Only reason that one was a hair hotter is I could run it wide open in clean low trash areas without it falsing.

I stand corrected, it was you Harold with that 12.1 FT not Ozzie.

Yes I think Ozzie has a 1021 that's a hair hotter at 12.2" if I remember correctly. I can't remember what I had for lunch but for some reason can remember that. Ha!
I have used every model CZ in 20 Years detecting. Had 5 at one time even, But always liked the CZ-3D the best if properly tuned as they seemed just a little hotter than the previous models. At least the ones I had except a CZ5 was close though. It was another I could run wide open and not here a peep. Another Detector I wish I kept but traded in on My First Nautilus IIBa as could only afford one machine at a time back then. That Nauty was a good one too so No regrets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 11:08PM by Harold,ILL..

I have a CZ6a tuned by Tom to 11.9in and a CZ 5 not tined. Both are Los Banos models and both are super deep in my soil which is 2 to 3 bar F75 and GB in the high 80s. Soil is also saturated with alkali. I will always have a good CZ in my inventory because there is not a better machine made to hunt old nickels with. I have mason jars filled with buffalos and V nickels filled over the years because of the CZs.

You are spot on Harold....good memory!!
My cz 1021 is 12.2 after Tom put his magic fingers on it. I will be heading to south Jersey beaches this weekend with it. Some striped bass fishing and some detecting, cain't wait.

Matter of being lucky or not....some are hot and vice versa....only way to buy a new one is have dealer try...or buy locally and try yourself.....
From experience with CZ's old and new had ones with poor performance in a test but went deep in the ground where it counted...???

well at $800.00 a copy they ain't exactly giving' 'em away!..after all this back and forth,the only way to buy one of these ,in my view,is through tom,and ONLY after he has certified it for the 12" "hit" on the dime! as a previous poster has stated,and i agree,they ain't worth "squat" if ya don't get the "right" depth!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

I don't mean to hijack a thread but it is on topic of the CZ 3D so I hope ya'll don't mind me asking. I've always wondered this so I figured I might as well ask.

My understanding is that the CZ-3D was developed with an Enhanced mode and was designed for "old" areas without a lot of modern trash in them.

The other CZ models simply had the Normal and Salt toggle switch, where as the 3D has replaced the Normal mode with the Enhanced mode.

If that is wrong, then that may explain my confusion.

My understanding is that the Enhanced mode was to make corroded coins or deeper coins that would drop into the tab ranges on older CZs, to read into the coin ranges....but at the cost of also making modern trash also read into the coin ranges.

So therefore my question is...why would a modern park or trashy site hunter, prefer a CZ 3D over the previous models?

Of the CZ models, I have only used the CZ-70 Pro and CZ-3D. I did have a CZ5 that had been calibrated and modified to CZ-3D parameters though. So I have never really ran a genuine CZ5 or CZ6 that had a Normal mode on it. Between the CZ-70 and CZ-3D, I preferred the CZ-70. I've always toyed with the idea of grabbing up one of those super cheap CZ5 or CZ6s on the classifieds just to play with for the nickels.

Here is a video actually done by member here of newer unit ( calibrated by host though) El Paso unit.
I won’t use a CZ in my neck of the woods- mineral.

[m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 09:50AM by tnsharpshooter.

The 3d is not a unit to take to modern trash sites. It serves better out in the field in enhanced mode where there are fewer targets and coins of old. It does great at the salt beach in salt mode...you will dig deep in the salt sand. Calibrated properly, it will high tone on most American coins even nickels. It also runs quiet for the most part. It gets fooled occasionally on deep iron, with a mild high tone. I run the 10.5" coil on it most of the time for the extra depth. I bought this unit new a few years back because it sat on the shelf of the ma and pa detector shop. It never sold. I knew it was there and every month or so I would call the owner and ask if it sold yet.....until finally I couldn't stand it any more and stopped by to check the numbers....sure enough, 1021.

Sent it down to Tom and it came back within a week (If I remember correctly) working as well as it could. Rodman called dibs on it if I ever sell it. Hard to sell a detector when it found your first half eagle...sentimental? yea, maybe I am......I'm like that with all my good quality tools.

Just a note to remember on the CZ5 and 3D, Depth decreases as you move your ground balance away from the 10 setting. So we air test with the ground balance at 10 to check if its properly calibrated to a dime but in the real world not very many of us can hunt with the ground balance setting at or near a 10. I know in my dirt the CZ balances between 2 and 2.75. That shaves off a lot of that air depth. But I would know if I was starting off with a good unit from the get go I could still stay in the 9 to 10" range at 2.50 gb setting.

Now imagine how much depth I'd loose if it only air tested a dime to 9" at a GB 10 setting? And then was hunting at gb 2 settings? I basically would be hunting with a 6" dime detector.

Anyway....

HH
Mike

Mine still hits a 12" dime with GB at 4 as that is where my ground is at. I posted a video of it awhile back.
As for the enhanced mode I always run in enhanced regardless of site. I think that is a little over blown as don't seem to dig anymore trash at a modern site. But I have been hunting that way since My first one.
For My ground still one of My all-time fave Detectors.
I think Cal cobra had an 12" 1021 for sale awhile back with original box?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 02:23PM by Harold,ILL..

There's one on the Bay right now that's Tom validated over 12". But if you get it, you'll pay dearly for it. They are proud of it.

Keith's video of the CZ in his test garden is the same results I get with one here too. [m.youtube.com]

I bought the 3D when it first came out. I remember I was so excited to get it but my CoinStrike I had at the time could outdo it in depth on everything. If you set em to where they are balanced like Keith does in his video, they just lose so much depth. I'd love to run one in mild soil some day.

Yeah that Guy on eBay is nuts. You will never get that.
I don't know if He is a member here or not but just trying to profit off Toms name. I hate to break it to Him but there are other CZ-3D's as Hot and even hotter.
People like that are bad for the Hobby. Probably some Guy who has never even used a CZ that much just going by here say.

Gosh...…. where's the thread(s) of all of my documented data exactly targeting this topic?

NASA-Tom Wrote:
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> Gosh...…. where's the thread(s) of all of my docum
> ented data exactly targeting this topic?


Here’s a start.
I will add more.
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]
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[www.dankowskidetectors.com]
[m.youtube.com]


*********[www.dankowskidetectors.com]
*********[www.dankowskidetectors.com]



Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 05:32PM by tnsharpshooter.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
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> NASA-Tom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gosh...…. where's the thread(s) of all of my doc
> um
> > ented data exactly targeting this topic?
>
>
> Here’s a start.
> I will add more.
> [www.dankowskidetectors.com]
> .php?2,36759,36808

Ole' TNSS!

Harold,ILL. Wrote:
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> Mine still hits a 12" dime with GB at 4 as that is
> where my ground is at. I posted a video of it awhi
> le back.
> As for the enhanced mode I always run in enhanced
> regardless of site. I think that is a little over
> blown as don't seem to dig anymore trash at a mode
> rn site. But I have been hunting that way since My
> first one.
> For My ground still one of My all-time fave Detect
> ors.
> I think Cal cobra had an 12" 1021 for sale awhile
> back with original box?

I think that was me, Harold. I had my 12" Tom tuned unit with the original box, manual, etc. up for sale for $625, then lowered to $600. The best offer I got was $550, so I decided to keep it.