If we were to build a new detector......

If we were to build a new detector what would we do. Alot of talk about detector companies possibly going under if they don't have new technology,etc. Just curious what could make a new detector better than what we already have . I am not disagreeing with new product, just wondering what you all would like, deeper seeking, better discrimination, more accurate tid, etc.....

The ability to tell the difference between gold and aluminum.

TARSACCI - “Digging deeper, BEHIND the competition!”
[forums.tarsaccisales.com]

If a detector could tell the difference between Aluminum and Gold, it could print money. Sadly, that will very likely never happen using RF technology. Now telling the difference between a gold ring and a pop top might be possible if some sort of “target density filter” could be devised - perhaps discriminating between thin targets with a large surface area and more dense targets with a higher mass to surface area ratio.

If you look at an in-depth description of how top of the line smartphone cameras work, you will see lots of stuff about how they take dozens of images with one squeeze of the “shutter button” then computationally combine them into the final image. If Detector makers have the right engineering talent, they might be able to utilize MUCH more powerful processors and take dozens of “images” of a target in a single swing, then combine the return signal analysis done by several different processor algorithms into a final output signal to the operator. If the devices decides it’s 90% likely it’s a non ferrous ring like object but not a pull tab, then the “Operator learning input” can be applied after target recovery. If it is in fact a ring pull or tab, then the algorithms in the machine could “learn” from this data and modify the analysis for that session at least - perhaps with the option of saving the modification for future sessions. The reason for the option would be that when soil and other conditions vary, the “operator learning input” may no longer be valid.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

“If a detector could tell the difference between Aluminum and Gold, it could print money. Sadly, that will very likely never happen using RF technology.”

Really? Hmmm.

I’ve got a metal detector that can do that.

There’s a private lake I hunt, inundated w tons of pull tabs. There’s just not time enough to dig them all.

Last time I was there I found a woman’s diamond wedding band and mans large wedding band within 1.5 hours.

It not only can be done, it has been done.

I guess you’ve never heard of the au21X.

The technology is there.

I’ll be going back there next month when the water warms up....

Aaron



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2019 12:06PM by Aaron.

Obviously I haven’t heard of it - funny thing, apparently Google hasn’t either. I Googled AU21x metal detector and searched on YouTube - no results. OK update - I found it...

[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

And then.....

[www.dankowskidetectors.com] - but here’s the thing about that thread - You Aaron posted...

“The Au-21x is great if you have a beach with tons of foil. You can pick the gold right out of all that junk.”

Then Tom posted “Not quite.”

seems this is a mod Tom did to a CZ3d to give it four tones - with a tone for non ferrous of less than high conductivity but with more mass than thin aluminum - between the previous middle tone and high tone - or something similar.

If this had actually worked reliably I reckon Tom would have made more than the one he traded off (per the 2nd thread) to Tmanley.

Wondering if you got yours from Tmanley or did Tom make more than one?

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2019 12:55PM by lytle78.

Rick: It's a Tom Special:
[www.dankowskidetectors.com]

I guess you can’t find EVERYTHING on google Rick!

However since seeing is believing, I’ll provide just that, shortly....

Aaron

Thanks Aaron - I’m not from Missouri but I have ridden a few mules.

And Pim. thanks for the link - I didn’t find that one, it answers my questions about what it was and shows that there were at least several.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

I'm with Rick. I wanna see this.

Well, when we are sitting around the camp fire in the middle of the desert discussing this same topic, the detector fantasy machine is... one that only beeps on gold. Totally silent until you get it over a piece of gold.
Of course, it must hit a 1 gram nugget (piece of gold jewelry) at 20"! As Rick said, "it would be like printing money". It certainly won't happen with our current tech. A fun fantasy though.

On a serious note, I would like to see a return to more specialized machines instead of the " one machine for all of your hunting needs" that we tend to see today.
I'm a big believer in the, "jack of all trades, master of none" belief. Yes, it means having to purchase a few machines- one for each task- beach, nugget, coin, relic,etc.
I have come to the realization that I don't want a machine that is "pretty good" at every thing. I want it to be the best at the one thing I'm doing at the time. When you see the differences in a dedicated beach machine compared to a dedicated coin machine vs. gold machine you realize the comprises that are made to create a multi purpose machine.

The E-TRAC, for example, is an incredible coin machine for hunting in modern trash. Yet, not so good at relics in littered ground. I'm good with that. It's nice to know that while swinging the E-TRAC in a park I've given myself the best opportunity to to find my desired target. Same for the Deus on relics and the GPX on nuggets.

Dean



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2019 02:01PM by bado1.

Rick, yes this is a mod Tom has developed, and yes it is VERY reliable.

I purchased mine from NASA Tom.

I’ll try to get a video up this evening.

Aaron

Thanks Aaron.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

Surely what we all want to see is lower prices, not just for the machine as a whole, but its constituent parts, too. So no expensive search-coils, no big-bucks battery packs.

Talk to Minelab, they are the champs at accessory and spare parts pricing.

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

An imagining system with high resolution would be the next step.

"It's only when we lost everything, that we are free to do anything"

Aaron Wrote:
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>
> It not only can be done, it has been done.
>


I have a suspicion that the only thing you are doing, is the old trick of ring-enhancement. Ie.: to reject the commonly recurring TIDs (foil and round tabs) and dig the other conductors in the low range. Which .... sure .... will enhance your odds of digging less trash, and hopefully net a gold ring. HOWEVER: This is NOT the same as telling aluminum apart from gold. Because guaranteed: Some of those rejected targets in the foil and tab range will indeed be gold items. And guaranteed: Some of the accepted targets can indeed be aluminum trash of various shapes & sizes.

This sparked a memory for me and I went to the archives. Seven years ago I sent a CZ in for NASA Tom to tune and asked Tom Manly about the Au21x mod (and NASA Tom as I recall). I was told it was a $400 (at the time) cost and it was not all that helpful for gold discrimination. I currently have 2 CZ3Ds and would gladly send one in if it really would improve it over what I am getting from the MDT 8000 and Equinox 800.

Past(or)Tom
Using a Legend, a Deus 2, an Equinox 800, a Tarsacci MDT 8000, & a few others...
with my beloved, fading Corgi, Sadie

didnt the AU21X mod tell diference gold from aluminum?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2019 06:55PM by juit.

juit Wrote:
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> didnt the AU21X mod tell diference gold from alumi
> num?


Like any/all discriminators, I'll bet it did only this : Would/could tell you the difference between isolated gold item and isolated aluminum item. To which the average viewer of such-a-test would get giddy with glee, thinking "it tells aluminum apart from gold".

But then reality sets in, when you can likewise find differences between any two gold items. And any two aluminum items. And that .... given enough time, you can fold us and squish a blotch of aluminum to read exactly like that gold item did. Or find a gold item to read exactly like an aluminum item.

This was the deceptive trick that fooled many of us back-in-the-day when TID was first introduced to the market. 1983-ish, when we saw one of the early Teknetics demonstrated to the club audience. The operator showed a nickel sounded distinctly one way. Then waved a gold ring that distinctly sounded another way. Then waved a pulltab which distinctly sounded a 3rd way ! Several people in the room had dollar signs in their eyes, and quickly ran out and bought that machine. Thinking they were going to get rich digging gold rings, while effortlessly leaving aluminum in the ground. They were in for a rude awakening. Doh !

Excellent explaination, Tom.

Cherry picking gold would be awesome, though.

Dean

I like Tom D's idea of getting all the heavy hitter detector engineers together in one room to brainstorm a next gen detector

Hello

Where can we find this cz3 au21 ?

This technologies is still exist in this detector or inside other one ?

speech recognition as every other device has it now .talk to your device

I would want something new. I'm always looking for the next big thing. I'm not interested in something that has already been on the market, stuffed in a new box or configuration. If it were up to some people, that is what we more than likely would see. For me, it would have to be something very innovative and cause a paradigm shift in our mindset to how we hunt sites to draw interest from me. The next big thing...the machine all others will be compared to, and that will establish the apex for top-of-the-line manufacturers to try and topple in the future.

That would be a great name for it. Apex.

This is an interesting subject and I would like to know what is the detector today best able to differentiate aluminum from gold, my beaches are saturated with aluminum. Oh I know in theory it's impossible, but there are some who do better than others. For example with the nox, I recognize the pulltab almost all the time. That said gold rings to 13 with the sound of a pulltab it can happen depending on how the jewelry is placed in the ground. On the nox, if we listen Well there is a nuance audio between some aluminum and some gold that have the same index, alas it is not 100% reliable ... Does not there exist a detector which is better than the nox for these cases?

A lighter weight CZ would be wonderful

More flavors of detectors that have EMI resilience like the CZ platform.

Knock MLs pricing if you want ...... but people have been paying the price..... because of good marketing and ... they work. The Xcal is likely the best machine ive used to tell foil from gold. BUT..... its mostly an awwwhaaaa moment once dug. Then you realize..... the roundness the slightly off sound of what you thought was a pull tab. I dig it all with the Xcal..... BUT more times than not i can call a pull tab or can slaw/gum wrapper....... and im not reswinging repeatedly over iron. I agree........ PRICE is getting crazy on LIMITED search coils and accessories ..... and lets not standardize a thing. The one thing most water guys are looking for to........ is a GOOD pair of headphones. Dont throw cheap at us .$30 headphones at a $160 price tag.

A detector that is so great at performance and so easy to use that only one YouTube video explaining it ever be made. We can throw all the other detectors away, and delete the classified sections. All for less than 500 bucks.

For me it would have to be GPR 'ground penetrating radar' that in my mind would be a massive leap forward,we do have it for professional use but its currently big and bulky and usually mounted on wheeled trolleys,if they could refine it and get a far higher resolution screen then i feel over time they will be able to refine it.

Regarding other new technology that will be the next game changer then i have no idea,but GPR is the one that excites me the most but of course as yet no one has picked up the batten and tried and refined this form of technology.