MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

Joe........... I have a concern. It would take too many words to describe.
For now.......... use 1-Region, All Tones. There's a ton of intel to be gained (some will be unsuspecting) whilst in 1-Region All Tones. The learning-curve will be steep, painful, fairly fast..........yet; highly tuitional.
Try this for now. Do not go through the complexities of creating a customized 5-Tone program. {{{The 1-Region All Tones.....will also help you dictate 'HOW' you may want to config a custom 5-Tones program....... in your near future.,.,.,.,.,., with a lot of the data-input being your mineralized dirt}}}.

Jesse....... could you try High Conductor Mode; yet, place Recovery Speed on '6'....... and see how that performs?

gts............ digging a hole right next to a foundation....... probably has a ton of any/every various type(s) of targets in that dirt! That's where the highest amount of cohabitation/civilization takes place. Probably a carpet of machine-gun iron. The closer you get to a structure or foundation....... the higher the density of targets! Any other detector would have ALSO failed!

I remember....... about 30 years ago............. I wanted to show-off how DEEP a CZ was to another (White's user) detectorist. I was in a field....... well over 100-YDs away from any structure. I dug a 10" plug..... planted a dime...... and covered it up. = NO JOY!
I THEN reburied the dime at 8"........and again = NO JOY!
He PROMISED me that his White's could detect it; yet, he did not have it with him that day...... as he was not detecting that day.
I went home: SPANKED (and frustrated).

About 16-days passed (with plenty of sleepless nights)............ and I decided to return. Performed the exact same test over again. I was able to (barely) find my dug plug again. Results were EXACTLY the same.
Soooooo......... armed with knowledge (and frustration)...... I pulled out my Fisher Gold Bug-2. In a nutshell............ the Gold Bug-2 recovered 7 pieces of birdshot from a shotgun. More specifically: seven pieces of #7-1/2 shot. BULLSEYE!!! Problem identified. The birdshot was about 4" deep. Too small....... and........ too deep for a CZ to detect.,.,.,.,.,., and (obviously) never even give a audio report of a problem. SILENT MASKING!!!

Hi Tom, I was using my test to see which mode would work best in heavy iron nails. At the location that I was detecting it seemed that Beach Low Conductors worked best in finding the dime as it was able to see the dime and give a good repeatable signal. I'm thinking that Beach Low Conductor might currently be the best mode to use in heavy iron. But I need to test it some more.

Perfect! And THAT'S why I (recently) mentioned to use AT Low Conductors in carpets of nails........ including the fact that THAT Mode presents better audible resolution on Fe.

With this being the 605th post to this thread, it seems as though the Manticore just isn't ready for prime time yet...

Sounds like they've got some work to do on the Manticore.

TexHunter --

Not sure I'd agree with that. At all.

For background, I do have 5 years experience on an Equinox. Monday, I hunted a site with military activity from the 1880s -- so lots of various-conductivity military relic-type targets, and widespread square nails. This site was totally in the woods, quite "thick" in some areas, so "coil control" -- which is of course really important, ESPECIALLY when trying to learn the nuances of target audio (but which is entirely disrupted with poor/choppy/disjointed swing technique, which was forced upon me by the terrain at this site) -- was impossible. NO WAY to really investigate each target, and really listen/learn. It was simply not a site that afforded that.

SO, with that said, I simply decided to "hunt," and essentially behave as though I were swinging an Equinox, and rely on my "instictual" knowledge of Minelab/Multi-IQ machines. And I had no trouble doing so, at all. My finds pouch looked much like it would have with an Equinox, and my junk pile looked much like it would have with an Equinox. I did NOT delve into the thickest of the square nail areas, and I did NOT focus on "advanced skills" such as trying to unmask non-ferrous in the heavier iron areas. Those skills will require MANY more hours on the machine to become at all proficient, and I now have a sum-total of TEN hours on the machine, so nowhere near being able to try to unlock the more advanced aspects of hunting the MC. BUT -- with that said, I had zero problem hunting, and hunting well, just by utilizing/relying on the 5 years of EQX experience I have accumulated. SO -- I did not delve into the aspects of the machine that should allow it to excel beyond the EQX (except I DID employ frequent use of "long-press" noise cancel), but at that same time, I had what I consider a "successful" hunt. My junk pouch, in particular, was NOT particularly full; MOST of it, I knew would be junk when I dug it, and my finds -- compared to my partners who were hunting machines they have MANY more hours on -- were right in line.

SO -- I would certainly NOT say, in any way, that the machine is "not ready for prime time." For someone with no Minelab experience, and especially no Multi-IQ/EQX experience, the learning curve may be steep/difficult. BUT, if you know how to hunt an Equinox, you can immediately have equal success with a Manticore, after just a few hours of familiarization. I'll post the finds below, absent the multitude of shotgun brass, .22 cal. casings and bullets, etc., but WITH most of the square nails I dug -- only 2 of which were ones that I thought had a good chance of being a high conductor. AGAIN -- I did NOT try any expert-level unmasking in the nails; I do NOT have the experience to do that, with this machine, and so didn't try. But, with my "mental discriminator" thus set rather high, the falses were NOT difficult to assign into the "likely to be falsing" bin, in my mind.

This is a good machine. My biggest complaint? 6 1/2 hours of run time, from full charge to machine shutting down due to drained battery (running all-terrain high conductors). It did NOT last, for the full hunt, and this IS a problem.

Steve

Steve....... LOVE the General Service buttons and the token!

Thanks! I always love digging those old 1800s General Service buttons; one of my buddies got a Cavalry one...

That token is a "B. P. O. E. Elks" token from a lodge in Guthrie, OK. I don't find old tokens as often as I'd like, and was glad to dig this one. It's a little "newer" than the 1880s military stuff, so not a "period" item; it was lost later.

Steve

My Manticore hasn't disappointed me. I have not hunted inland yet but for my beach needs it is going above and beyond many previous beach machines that I have owned. I have no regrets in its purchase and today it found its first thin 10K gold chain about 3 inches deep in the breaking surf / wet sand area. A definite crisp, diggable signal showing 5 / 6 on the VID, running in prospecting audio, beach low conductors, sensitivity 23. It weighs 1.9 grams.

The manticore is a great machine but the user has to dial it in for the particular hunting situation you are facing. Its pumping alot of power out of that coil and you can tell when your using it!!!!It hits low conductors at insain depths.The machine In my opinion is designed to be able to run extremely hot if so desired or possible but that doesn't always mean you should.I am glad it's designed this way a top of the line detector you should never be able to max out it's like a 600 hp muscle car sometimes just feather the gas lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2023 03:28AM by Jesse.

Nasa Tom I will try a higher recovery speed in high conductors next time I'm out.The iron was highly concentrated at the last site I was at and the high conductor mode was just to much juice for the area.I couldn't run sensitivity past 21 without alot of falses but after modifications to the fast program I could run sensitivity to 26 with really good target separation and awsome depth.The falses were virtually gone with the audio easily conveyed it was a false.Its a impressive machine

Ok fast report. Mantiocre program Low conductors and recovery 6. Iron limit 6 and lower 3. Audio Enhanced. Modulation Simple. One tone.

An old site full of iron. You can't calibrate the machine... no clear patch. All time also halo effect. Place hunted to dead by last few years. Size two soccer fields. Flat pasture.

After one hour I understand everything and I can find more masked coins without any effort or issue. Like Thomas, Dankowski said: you need to check each target by 90 degrees method. First audio second 2D diagram.

It works perfectly. If you are not sure you watch the screen. You get more additional information the kind of target and target masking by iron. 20% new target coins. Also heavy forged iron nails with square heads. You can easy to recognize it by the screen.

okara gold...... And THAT is "why" I push folks to dig as many tiny/little pieces of aluminum can-slaw on the wet salt beach! DIG the ID's that are in the low single-digit ID range. Not many other units would be able to find your/that thin 10K gold chain. You are going to find a LOT more trash (and targets). But................... at the end of the day............... guess what you may be walking away with.........off of the beach.

Jesse........ that is correct. You are trying to drive a Indy Race Car.......in downtown New York City. It 'can' be done...... with proper settings/application.

Shelton....... exactly! And................ as your skillset goes up with Manticore.................... try dropping Recovery Speed down to '4'. ---It may take a few hunts (a few "experiences") before you can do this.

Steve......... I'm glad you included (and in total honesty/disclosure) the iron nails (square nails) that you dug....... in the photo.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> okara gold...... And THAT is "why" I push folks to
> dig as many tiny/little pieces of aluminum can-sla
> w on the wet salt beach! DIG the ID's that are in
> the low single-digit ID range. Not many other unit
> s would be able to find your/that thin 10K gold ch
> ain. You are going to find a LOT more trash (and t
> argets). But................... at the end of the
> day............... guess what you may be walking a
> way with.........off of the beach.

TOM: As far as these Thin Gold Chains go, how does the NOX 900 compare to the Manticore? I fresh water hunt mainly but with the NOX 800 I found lots of small ear rings and anklets when the 800 gave a TID of 1 or 2.

Mike................ you are in a totally different ballgame .......when you are hunting FRESH water swimming areas. I'm hoping that you are not in any form of a Beach 'salt' Mode!!! IF the water is truly FRESH water...... you should be able to get away with Field Mode-2 on the EQX. , . , . , . , . , . in which (to answer your original question)....... the EQX-900 is a very close competitor to the Manticore whilst in All Terrain Low Conductors. The only perceivable difference/delta would be....... the Manticore may present a bit more stability.
Yes....... targets that ID '1' (and 2) on the EQX are VERY important!..... as you are seeing/witnessing ""why"".

Thanks Tom!!!

Question About All-Terrain Low Conductors vs All-Terrain High Conductors

Typical settings Recovery 2, Audio Normal/Simple, 1-Regiion All Tones, Iron Vol 2 Regular Vol 21, Ferros Limits 8 & 4 as I'm learning this machine, Sens Site Specific.

Low Conductors says in manual optimized for small or thin metal targets such as hammered or cut coins and fine jewelry.
High Conductors says in manual optimized for large or thick metal targets, such as copper, gold, or silver coins.

So Inland Hunting in the Mid-West "Ohio" being a coin shooter what real difference would I see between these 2 modes?

Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2023 05:18AM by Mike K.

Mike........
In reference to coin hunting =

A.T. Low Conductors will hit coins harder than All Terrain High Conductors.......from surface to medium depths; yet, A.T. Low Conductors is more easily masked-out by little bits of foil.
A.T. High Conductors will hit the deeper depth coins with better clarity over A.T. Low Conductors........and is desensitized quite a bit....to little bits of chewing gum foil.

A.T. Low Conductors is more 'resolute' with iron/nails.
A.T. High Conductors is slightly more 'blurry' with iron/nails.

A.T. Low Conductors is more hot on nails & foil.
A.T. High Conductors is very mildly detuned to iron........ and formidably detuned to foil.

BOTH Modes are very good for U.S. coinage; yet, A.T. High Conductors takes the lead.
Whilst coin-shooting....... the difference between the two Modes is somewhat minimal.......UNLESS there's a lot of foil and/or nails.

Just make sure to rid EMI to the best of your abilities....... via LONG PRESS Noise Cancel.,.,.,.,.,.,., regardless of which Mode you choose.

((( Does this come close to answering your question? )))

Yes it does and confirms some of the air testing I did last night. Now have to get out in the real world environment and put it to work. Your comment:
A.T. Low Conductors is more 'resolute' with iron/nails.
A.T. High Conductors is slightly more 'blurry' with iron/nails.

Was spot on for what I've noticed last night, and you gave me more information as well. Thanks

One area of the Manticore manual which I think was the same graphic in the NOX 800 that I'm foggy on is Recovery Speed Page 54. I've started using 2 but the graphic shows

Low Recovery Speed "Good" non-ferrous target response is masked by the "bad" ferrous target. and

Medium Recovery Speed "Good" non ferrous target response is partially masked by the "bad" ferrous target response.

So is it possible that using a recovery speed of 2 that some good non-ferrous target could get masked by IRON?

Thanks Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2023 04:30PM by Mike K.

Mike. Try this:

In a heavy iron site......... ((nearly a carpet-of-nails))........ find SEVERAL different targets that you plan on digging. Find them with a Recovery Speed of '2'.
THEN....... go back to each of these marked targets........ and bump Recovery Speed up to 4 or 5. Compare audio response. See what YOUR dirt does!
{{{ I like to bounce between Recovery Speed of 2..... to 5....... back to 2....... back to 5......... and back to 2. }}}

Caveat. , . , . , . , . , . , if you are running a Recovery Speed of '2' and you are in heavy (target-rich) trash............ make your coil-sweep-speed about 1/2-speed.,.,.,., or even slightly slower.
Watch what happens. Especially with a Recovery Speed of 2.

I'm getting into trouble.......by getting you guys in trouble!
Just because I start life (at any new hunting site) with a Ferrous Limits: Upper = 5....................... and........... Lower = 3............ so as to present maximum unmasking.,.,.,.,.,., does NOT mean that a new Manticore owner/user/hunter should also start with 5/3!!! This will surely get you into trouble..... in short order!!!!
START your maiden-voyage learning-curve with something MUCH more moderate/do'able. Say: Upper = 9 ...... and Lower = 5
If your maiden voyage is encountering TOO much iron falsing........ by all means.........start with a bit higher (more sane/reasonable) Upper & Lower Ferrous Limits.

I probably should state for-the-record......... I DO use a Recovery Speed of 2 in trashy sites; yet, I REALLY slow down my sweep-speed ....as I enter into a target-rich area.

Also............. if you are in highly mineralized ground.......... a fast Recovery Speed is less deep.......and will see less dirt; hence/subsequently......... help 'stabilize' the detector. Manticore, Deus-2, EQX......... etc............

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike. Try this:
>
> In a heavy iron site......... ((nearly a carpet-of
> -nails))........ find SEVERAL different targets th
> at you plan on digging. Find them with a Recovery
> Speed of '2'.
> THEN....... go back to each of these marked target
> s........ and bump Recovery Speed up to 4 or 5. Co
> mpare audio response. See what YOUR dirt does!
> {{{ I like to bounce between Recovery Speed of 2..
> ... to 5....... back to 2....... back to 5........
> . and back to 2. }}}
>
> Caveat. , . , . , . , . , . , if you are running a
> Recovery Speed of '2' and you are in heavy (target
> -rich) trash............ make your coil-sweep-spee
> d about 1/2-speed.,.,.,., or even slightly slower.
> Watch what happens. Especially with a Recovery Spe
> ed of 2.

I know ONE thing that happens...

Iron "falses" diminish SIGNIFICANTLY.

Steve



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2023 03:26AM by steveg.

At 2 they Diminish SIGNIFICANTLY?

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know ONE thing that happens...
>
> Iron "falses" diminish SIGNIFICANTLY.
>
> Steve

Mike,

Let me check my settings; I may be running it at 3... Reason I'm not TOTALLY sure, is that right now, I'm on a "set it and forget it" mindset for MOST of my settings, as I'm still in learning mode, and my attitude is, if you are constantly changing settings as you learn, you are sobotaging your learning. Just my style; I'm a scientist, and "holding your variables constant, changing only ONE AT A TIME" is kind of the baseline premise. I have to understand the unit FIRST, very completely, and I'm not there yet. THEN, when I understand the unit in one particular "state," I can begin to alter ONE VARIABLE (setting) at a time, and compare the effects of that change to the "base state," if that makes sense. Anyway, I set it up the day I got it, and haven't altered most settings since...so that's why I can't recall for sure if I set it at 2 or 3.

But let me check on that setting. What I can say, is, AS SOON as I get into areas falsy iron, it's almost now instictual for me to slow WAAAAAY down, and usually, the falses are reduced significantly...I'd estimate roughly a 75% reduction...but I mean a SLOW sweep speed.

OK -- I checked...recovery speed 3, upper limits 8, lower limits 3.

Steve

I totally understand your train of thought and I want to setup my base line as well. Thank You for sharing your opinion I like it.....

Mike

steveg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike,
>
> Let me check my settings; I may be running it at 3
> ... Reason I'm not TOTALLY sure, is that right no
> w, I'm on a "set it and forget it" mindset for MOS
> T of my settings, as I'm still in learning mode, a
> nd my attitude is, if you are constantly changing
> settings as you learn, you are sobotaging your lea
> rning. Just my style; I'm a scientist, and "holdi
> ng your variables constant, changing only ONE AT A
> TIME" is kind of the baseline premise. I have to
> understand the unit FIRST, very completely, and I'
> m not there yet. THEN, when I understand the unit
> in one particular "state," I can begin to alter ON
> E VARIABLE (setting) at a time, and compare the ef
> fects of that change to the "base state," if that
> makes sense. Anyway, I set it up the day I got it
> , and haven't altered most settings since...so tha
> t's why I can't recall for sure if I set it at 2 o
> r 3.
>
> But let me check on that setting. What I can say,
> is, AS SOON as I get into areas falsy iron, it's a
> lmost now instictual for me to slow WAAAAAY down,
> and usually, the falses are reduced significantly.
> ..I'd estimate roughly a 75% reduction...but I mea
> n a SLOW sweep speed.
>
> OK -- I checked...recovery speed 3, upper limits 8
> , lower limits 3.
>
> Steve

Folks, I’ll pay your asking price for a new/used Manticore. Just PM me. Thx in advance!

Ok, I can compare DEUS II to Manticore in deep iron. Minelab is a pure winner. After 2 years in the same place on my footprints and covered holes I can find more and more low conductors. But it can change with new update from XP... but now...

The site is open again... an amazing feeling anyway.

Shelton..............you may also want to try Beach Seawater Mode in your carpets of nails..........and see if that helps you in unmasking. BUT........ REMEMBER = Beach Seawater Mode will present a bit more iron falsing; yet, still fairly intelligible.

And =
All Terrain High Conductors............VS..............All Terrain Low Conductors ....,,,,,..... will open DIFFERENT 'doors' in carpets of nails.

Thank you I will check it, but that setup is amazing... I can analyze and decide what to dig or not to dig. 2D was made only for target checking and works perfectly.

I have recommendation for Minelab as far as Manticore.
Deals with screen brightness when detector is being used.

NASA Tom can look at.
I have done sent this video link via email to Minelab Engineer.
Thought I would put here due to Minelab looking at this thread occasionally.

Enjoy.

[m.youtube.com]