MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

Mike K. I have learned so much from your short vid clips. I'm finally getting out with the core, and testing it at my grandparents former homestead. Today I set up the core like you have been running it . Picking thru the iron, I got a broken signal in the mostly 70's , dug it, and out pops a SLQ !
About 6" , no date but plenty of iron stains on it.
Also 2- 7" & 8" wheats. That screen is amazing , and this machine will be a real killer with a smaller coil!

possum mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike K. I have learned so much from your short vid
> clips. I'm finally getting out with the core, and
> testing it at my grandparents former homestead. To
> day I set up the core like you have been running
> it . Picking thru the iron, I got a broken signal
> in the mostly 70's , dug it, and out pops a SLQ !
> About 6" , no date but plenty of iron stains on it
> .
> Also 2- 7" & 8" wheats. That screen is amazing , a
> nd this machine will be a real killer with a small
> er coil!

Well I'm Glad they have helped others!!!! As that's the benefit Tom has helped us and I just Ried to put it into a forum that most could understand.!!!!!!! I don't know it all and am learning the machine as well. but I can say I'm a very happy Minelab Manticore user!!!!!!!

Here's suggestion (if possible to be done) for Minelab as far as Manticore.
As far as having a menu option to select menu option to force detector to do elongated noise cancel process without having to hold button on detector.
Could some time frame in seconds be options for users in menu?
Or is there a good time frame for this extended process to be done and be considered "at the time it is done" to be best available channel selected?

Mr Danksowki, your thoughts and others here too.

Mr Danskowki if you think this is something worthy and possible to do feel free to pass this to Minelab.
If you do pass this to them.. Just say so.
So I won't send to them.

Here's short video I did on the subject.
[m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2023 02:13AM by tnsharpshooter.

David......... The amount of time that I "LONG PRESS" the Noise Cancel feature is....... highly variable (never the same.......and by a wide margin). . . . . . . and I NEED this ability to adapt to differing local EMI variable conditions.
BUT............ I WILL SAY THIS = I NEVER/EVER use the 'touch-and-release' feature of Noise Cancel. It is ALWAYS "LONG PRESS". Soooooooooo........ touch-and-release is nearly useless. THIS may be where something can/could be changed. My thoughts are: "touch-and-release" could be configured to do a .......... "4-cycles".......... scan. (In other words; touch-and-release would cycle through all 19-Noise Cancel Channels........4-times/4-cycles).
David........not a bad thought!

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David......... The amount of time that I "LONG PRE
> SS" the Noise Cancel feature is....... highly vari
> able (never the same.......and by a wide margin).
> . . . . . . and I NEED this ability to adapt to di
> ffering local EMI variable conditions.
> BUT............ I WILL SAY THIS = I NEVER/EVER[
> /b] use the 'touch-and-release' feature of Noise C
> ancel. It is ALWAYS "LONG PRESS". Soooooooooo.....
> ... touch-and-release is nearly useless. THIS may
> be where something can/could be changed. My though
> ts are: "touch-and-release" could be configured to
> do a .......... "4-cycles".......... scan. (In oth
> er words; touch-and-release would cycle through al
> l 19-Noise Cancel Channels........4-times/4-cycles
> ).
> David........not a bad thought!


Okay.
I reshot video and sent to Minelab via email.
Here's video.
[m.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2023 11:22AM by tnsharpshooter.

Looks good David!

Tom wanted me to ask this question on this thread.

Is it advisable to do all metal with the upper and lower ferrous limits? I guess I’m still confused about what they do. They aren’t the actual discrimination? For instance, if i set the preset as upper 9 and lower 3 but then scroll over to a custom pattern, then the ferrous limits I set are no longer correct?

These answers should be shared with all......... and could possibly benefit all. I probably should have explained this better......... a long time ago.

1. Let's call: FERROUS LIMITS - UPPER by a new name........ for ease of (General Public) understanding. Let's call it: FERROUS LIMITS - NAILS. \\\\\ This setting adjusts the squelch on things like: nails, screws, bent nails, nuts, bolts, iron tools......etc. BUT ....... just think of it as NAILS. When you lower this adjustment (with lower numbers)....... you are allowing more of the nail to break through the squelch, and start to ID closer into the non-ferrous (good target) range. More of the nail to 'come through' the audio....into the non-ferrous range.
2. Let's call: FERROUS LIMITS - LOWER by a new name....... for ease of (General Public) understanding. Let's call it: FERROUS LIMITS - TIN. \\\\\ This setting adjusts the squelch on things like: sheet-steel, tin (steel bottle-caps/crown-caps.... can be a good example).......and larger flat ferrous objects that present a lot of FLAT surface-area. When you lower this setting (lower numbers)....... it allows for sheet-steel/tin.....to break through the squelch: easier.
3. WHY do these adjustments exist? = Both #1 and #2 (above) allows ferrous items to be adjusted ...to allow for: BETTER UNMASKING. For example: If you are in a nail infested area........and you adjust (by lowering) your Ferrous Limits - NAILS to 'just barely' knock out/ID (mostly) as a iron/nail audio.......with a little bit of a non-ferrous tone to be heard .......,,,,,,,,,........... this......in-turn........ will THEN allow for a small non-ferrous item (in very close proximity to a nail) to 'break squelch' much easier/better.......aiding in unmasking abilities. If you adjust this control to higher settings/numbers....... then iron will MUCH more readily ID as iron........yet, a small non-ferrous item next to a nail.....will now: NOT even give a clue (audibly) that it even exists. The overpowering strength of the nail signal..... will completely dominate the non-ferrous item.......not allowing it to be partially heard/discovered.
4. Iron Mask. (Better known as the horseshoe). If you turn 'ON' iron mask.......... this merely kills the audio of all iron. If you turn 'ON' the horseshoe (Iron Mask)......... you will then hear the low tones of iron......... and KNOW what your conditions are. Iron Mask is INDEPENDENT of Ferrous Limits.
5. Iron Volume. Manticore allows the operator to adjust the Volume of iron..........because.........sometimes there may be SO much iron.......that.......the audio of all the iron can become very fatiguing. Soooooooo, you may still want to hear the iron (to continue knowing what kind of conditions you are confronted with); yet, NOT get audibly fatigued by all the iron.
6. ALL of these (above) adjustments are INDEPENDENT of each other. If you make individual adjustments to (all of the above adjustments/controls).,.,.,.,.,., then you save it to a Custom Program....... they WILL be saved per your specific individual adjustments.

Yesteryear....... I had a Fisher 1266X.......and a XP GMP. The DISC adjustment on those units was a iron Disc adjustment. I would always adjust it to "just barely" knock out the nails. (((Actually....... I would adjust this control to allow a nail to 'crackle' a just little bit....into the non-ferrous range.........maybe 10% or 15%..... as a non-ferrous item.......and 85% or 90% as a nail/ferrous item))). This allowed for MUCH better unmasking!

Does this explanation .....clear up some of the 'not understood' controls of Manticore?

Thank you for your response on the thread. Your educational input is very much appreciated. Might just be me trying to process it all because I do understand to an extent. I’m still confused as to how the ferrous limits and discrimination coincide. Are they one in the same or two different things?
When you make your upper and lower ferrous limit adjustments, are you doing it on the preset section and just leaving it there? Or do you make a custom program? I guess I’m still wondering if you set upper and lower ferrous limits of say 9 and 3, can you still change what you want to discriminate out. Or when you set the ferrous limits, is that the discrimination?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2023 01:48PM by DigDugNY.

Ferrous Limits: ONLY affects ferrous/iron objects.
Discrimination: affects the ENTIRE spectrum of targets. Discrimination can completely knock out iron from audibly reporting. Discrimination can also knock out chewing gum foil, pull tabs, zinc pennies....... or any other combination in-between......that you choose.
IF you configure a special Ferrous Upper & Ferrous Lower . , . , . , . , . , . and then you use Discrimination to knock out (get rid of) iron...........what will happen is = You will NOT hear a audio report on iron items/targets....that are covered by/within your Ferrous Upper & Lower settings. You WILL still hear items/targets that are OUTSIDE (that are 'above') your Ferrous Limits customized settings.
Now that I have you totally confused!!!!!!............ let me give an example:
Let's say factory presets/settings of Ferrous Limits - Upper.... is '8'. BUT......... you decide you want to go deep into the iron.....unmask as many non-ferrous targets as possible........so you drop this Ferrous Limits - Upper (NAILS) setting ..... to '5'. This means: Nails that 'break squelch' at 6 or 7........ will NOW audibly report as a non-ferrous target...... When the factory preset would have made these nails ID as 'iron' .... due to factory Ferrous Limits - Upper: being factory preset on '8'. = = = = NOW you decide to Discriminate iron. . . . . so you Disc iron. These nails that break squelch at 6 or 7...... will STILL be audibly heard.......and report as non-ferrous.,.,.,., because of your Ferrous Limits - Upper settings ((of '5')). But anything below......that still ID's as 'iron'......... will now be Disc'd out........... because you Disc'd out iron.

"WHY" would you take your Ferrous Limits - Upper (((Ferrous Limits - NAILS)))...... and drop the setting from (say) 8...... down to 5. Maybe at your specific site........ your site-specific nails still (mostly) read/ID as 'iron'..... with the Ferrous Limits - NAILS dropped down to '5'. And maybe with a setting too low (too aggressive).......say: '4'......... and now most of the nails start to HEAVILY ID as non-ferrous. Sooooooooo........... '5' is your magic setting. = = = = NOW....... with a setting of '5'......... any non-ferrous target in close proximity to a nail......may MUCH more easily 'break squelch'...... and audibly report a non-ferrous tone. , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , indicating there is something 'slightly MORE'.....than just a nail......is down there. BOOM.........you've just unmasked a non-ferrous target 'in-the-mix' of nails!

Thank you! I’m starting to understand. What do you personally do as far as discrimination?

NO Discrimination
NO Notching

But......... 1-Region All-Tones
This variable tones system (according to the conductivity of the detected target)...... is all the discrimination........... (actually: audible intelligence)............ that I want/need.

I don't even need/use any of the Custom Programs memory. In other words: I don't need to 'save' any "custom programs".
I customize one particular Mode (say: All Terrain, High-Conductors Mode).........then.......... no matter how many times you turn the detector ON/OFF........ it REMEMBERS your exact custom setup. I don't need to: -----save-it-to-memory-----...as a Custom Program.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NO Discrimination
> NO Notching
>
> But......... 1-Region All-Tones
> This variable tones system (according to the condu
> ctivity of the detected target)...... is all the d
> iscrimination........... (actually: audible intell
> igence)............ that I want/need.
>
> I don't even need/use any of the Custom Programs m
> emory. In other words: I don't need to 'save' any
> "custom programs".
> I customize one particular Mode (say: All Terrain,
> High-Conductors Mode).........then.......... no ma
You don't use any iron discrimination?
> tter how many times you turn the detector ON/OFF..
> ...... it REMEMBERS your exact custom setup. I don
> 't need to: -----save-it-to-memory-----...as a Cus
> tom Program.

khouse......... I want to HEAR the iron. Soooooo.......... I do NOT do any "Notching". In Minelab terms: I have the horseshoe fully: "ON". Full view. Nothing Discriminated. Nothing "Notched". However......... I DO have the iron Volume....turned down a bit. . . . . so as to NOT audibly fatigue-out too easily/quickly.
BUT.............. what I do is......... have real iron objects..... so they ....just barely.... audibly ID/burp: 'iron'. -----Where iron 'mostly' ID's as '''iron'''. JUST BARELY.
In other words.......... if I drop Ferrous Limits just one number: lower...... iron will then MOSTLY ID as 'non-ferrous'. Iron is JUST BARELY 'caught' (classified).......(ID'd) as: iron.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> khouse......... I want to HEAR the iron. Soooooo..
> ........ I do NOT do any "Notching". In Minelab te
> rms: I have the horseshoe fully: "ON". Full view.
> Nothing Discriminated. Nothing "Notched". However
> ......... I DO have the iron Volume....turned down
> a bit. . . . . so as to NOT audibly fatigue-out to
> o easily/quickly.
> BUT.............. what I do is......... have real
> iron objects..... so they ....just barely.... audi
> bly ID/burp: 'iron'. -----Where iron 'mostly' ID'
> s as '''iron'''. JUST BARELY.
> In other words.......... if I drop Ferrous Limits
> just one number: lower...... iron will then MOSTLY
> ID as 'non-ferrous'. Iron is JUST BARELY 'caught'
Thank you, Tom. Do you run your upper and lower iron limits strait across or do you pick and choose different windows of the more common iron targets to disc out?
> (classified).......(ID'd) as: iron.

You must DEFINATELY pick-and-choose VERY specific set-points for Upper & Lower. And each site will be different.,.,.,.,.,., mostly due to iron decomposition rate/status.
Ferrous Limits: NAILS...................and....................Ferrous Limits: TIN. , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , . , may sometimes be dramatically different from each other........ from site-to-site.
AND.......................... I imagine............. if you live in the dry desert (say California/Nevada)............. your Ferrous Limits: TIN ......will be vitally important to set properly.,.,.,.,.,., because all of the tin...is well preserved.....due to: lack-of-rain.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must DEFINATELY pick-and-choose VERY specific
> set-points for Upper & Lower. And each site will b
> e different.,.,.,.,.,., mostly due to iron decompo
> sition rate/status.
> Ferrous Limits: NAILS...................and.......
> .............Ferrous Limits: TIN. , . , . , . , .
> , . , . , . , . , . , . , may sometimes be dramati
> cally different from each other........ from site-
> to-site.
> AND.......................... I imagine...........
> .. if you live in the dry desert (say California/N
> evada)............. your Ferrous Limits: TIN .....
> .will be vitally important to set properly.,.,.,.,
> .,., because all of the tin...is well preserved...
> ..due to: lack-of-rain.

I went to a spot the other day where the iron was really falsing. It was mostly falsing in the high 70’s. In this instance would I actually raise the Upper limit? Is there a point where it would be too high?

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must DEFINATELY pick-and-choose VERY specific
> set-points for Upper & Lower. And each site will b
> e different.,.,.,.,.,., mostly due to iron decompo
> sition rate/status.
I really want to find a good happy medium with the iron limits. I did so with the etrac after a few hunts and really didn't change that for over 12 years. The etrac was basically a turn on and go machine for me. I guess I just don't have time for that! LOL.
I will use the horeshoe more often rather than to check various iffy targets here and there. I have lots to learn. But I'm still wishing for an updated etrac!

DigDug........ I do not know what current Ferrous Limits you are running.
You could try a faster Recovery Speed........ and dig (at minimum) good 2-way hits.,.,.,.,., and more probably: good 3-way hits.
This should start to increase your success-rate.

I was running upper 9 and lower 3…I haven’t been seeing anyone say they use higher than 9 on the upper but would it be better to leave the upper at that and just using a higher recovery speed? My recovery speed was set around 4 and I was still getting the falsing. This spot has different iron than some of the other spots where I wasn’t having as bad of falsing.

9/4 ..... should be ample.
Gosh....... I wish I could train 5/3..... or even 4/3 in iron; yet, I'm still trying to formulate words!

I know one of the biggest things you emphasize is the way the audio sounds between falsing iron and when non-ferrous is mixed in with iron. I guess that’s the thing I’m still trying to figure out. Do you have audio theme and profile settings that are specific to “carpet of nails” sites? That’s not something I’ve really seen talked about yet. Would you change those settings around based on whether you are looking for deeper targets vs when you are in heavy iron looking for shallower targets co-mingled with iron?

I am always in: 1-Region All-Tones
No special audio programs.

So you leave the audio theme and profile and whatever default is?

Use Enhanced for iron with one tone

I also run 1-Region All-Tones, and I use simple audio also. For me I don't wanna miss any deep targets and simple audio. As some people like normal so they can hear the whispers of deep targets. But being almost 60 what happens if I don't hear it? I just might have missed a good target. So in Simple mode it bangs like a 2" coin would. If I curious about the depth I can see how many chevrons there are and it's not always true either, but does give a good idea for the most part. I would rather hear all the targets and not take a chance on walking over one as that whisper was to quite for me to hear. Just my 2 zinc cents worth

What I’m gathering to at least give a try: (making adjustments if I need too) and from what I’ve been experiencing so far

1 region all tone
Upper ferrous limit 9
Lower ferrous limit 3 or 4
Enhanced audio
Simple profile
Wide Open screen (All Metal)
ATHC or All terrain general

DigDugNY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I might add ATLC in there as well. When I'm in thick Iron I sometimes us ATLC also. Learned that here on the forum...

Mike K

> 1 region all tone
> Upper ferrous limit 9
> Lower ferrous limit 3 or 4
> Enhanced audio
> Simple profile
> Wide Open screen (All Metal)
> ATHC or All terrain general

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have now been asked (4-times)......what our prim
> ary intent/target was.....for the wireless bluetoo
> th ML-105 headphones.
> Answer = Audio quality first!

Tom, Any plans with Minelab to make an audio module like the WM-08?
No waterproof/water resistant wireless audio options has held me back from purchasing the Manticore.
Thanks

KP........... Right now......we're putting all focus on optional coils . , . , . , and software updates that many users in the field are requesting. Any time we get a lot of requests for a particular software upgrade.,.,.,.,., we certainly look into it. Feasibility and broad application.
BUT....... something like the WM-08 idea ((for Manticore)) .....certainly has been tossed around!