MINELAB MANTICORE: DATA & PERFORMANCE

Kingfish...... a while ago.... you asked:

"Off the subject a bit, Tom what are you working on now? What detector and what settings are you using on the beach? Can you tell what direction you are headed or thinking?"

I am TRYING to get to your questions!!!......and......... I have a bit of time (now). This is probably the best thread to answer these questions.

I am using ONLY the Manticore on the beach....... as of the past 1/2-year. I am now exclusively using Beach - Low Conductors Mode on the beach......IN the water........and on the wet-slope. By choice, I am permanently solidified in Audio: PROSPECTING. With justification....... I have absolutely zero intent to use any other audio option. I am also permanently in
Ferrous Limits - Upper = 4
Ferrous Limits - Lower = 0
Something that I keep validating........ and revalidating: If you want peak performance...... it is imperative to Ground Balance to the wet-salt. For best stability (and performance)........ I will perform Ground Balance right at the waters edge.....with about 1/8" of water under the (bobbing) coil. A proper Ground Balance allows for the Sens to be bumped up a couple more points.
Digging all the little/tiny bits of aluminum can-slaw....... has paid off.

"What am I working on right now?" = It would not be prudent for me to divulge; yet, I can say this much:
1. Better tools for lower conductors in a wet-salt environ.
2. Inland = attacking iron ...... from multiple angles.

The direction I am headed =
To open doors...... that we do not know (they) even exist. ((( And in somewhat of a paradigm-shift foray ))).

NASA-Tom Wrote:

> BUT....... something like the WM-08 idea ((for Man
> ticore)) .....certainly has been tossed around!


Hi Tom
Just my input, but for me a wireless reciever module is *way* higher priority than new coils. It's a requirement to keep the unit usable in windy conditions.

My EQX solution is to wear APTX-LL earbuds (or earbuds wired to the WM-08) under ear defenders.

Possibly paranoia, but I'm not a fan of turning the audio up to (possibly) unhealthy levels to overcome wind noise. My tinnitus is bad enough already

For all the work that went into the low latency audio for the MC, this seems for nothing if we then have to connect an aftermarket APTX-LL transmitter to the MC audio out jack.

I do find it odd that a WM-08-type module wasn't an option at launch, as it was with the EQX600/800.

My MC has just arrived, and I'm already looking for a suitable APTX transmitter..

We don't even need a separate wireless receiver module. The manticore uses the Nordic nRF5340 chipset which is bluetooth le compatible. we just need minelab to allow 3rd party bluetooth le headsets to connect to it.

Tom - keep doing what you are doing. I too use those beach settings and am more than satisfied with the information received.

I replaced the ear cushions with gel and it helped wind noise somewhat - seems the hollow plastic and bumpy shape contribute to wind noise for us hearing challenged folks.

All the best!

So Tom.... Beach Low Conductors IN the water? Interesting. Going to NYS for a couple weeks and doing some dirt hunting. It will be my first time with the Manticore in the dirt. When I get back to FL I'll have to experiment with the Low Conductors in the water. What kind of sensitivity are you using for that scenario? Thanks!

So is the wm-08 still compatible with the Nox 900/700? If so, does it still come with the 900 like it did with the 800? Or not come with the 700 like it didn't with the 600?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2023 03:11AM by marcomo.

marcomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So is the wm-08 still compatible with the Nox 900/
> 700?

It is not compatible. As of today there is no wireless module for Nox 700/900 or Manticore

okara......... The calmness/roughness of the saltwater....dictates how high Sens can go whilst in Beach Low Conductors. In many cases....... I usually run Sens 20....... but there certainly are times that I can get away with Sens 23 (sometimes Sens 24) in the water. , . , . , . , . , especially if it is early in the morning........when the waves are laid-down/non-existent. Recovery Speed remains '4'. Audio = Prospecting.

Tom,
It's time for you to write and publish a definitive book on the Manticore.

Tom I have a question With the manticore & head phones that come with them. Can I hear lets say a IN Penny Audio in one ear and Silver in the other? Presuming there are 2 coins in the same plug?

Mike K

Little short video.

Btw,,the second target (coin) deepest ever coin find I have found in this site. House built 1949. This is a tightly controlled site I use to evaluate detectors.

Gotta watch Manticore, Sneaky devil.

[m.youtube.com]

KP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcomo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So is the wm-08 still compatible with the Nox 90
> 0/
> > 700?
>
> It is not compatible. As of today there is no wire
> less module for Nox 700/900 or Manticore


I guess what I find most puzzling is that the Nox 600/800, which support connectivity to 3rd party Blutooth/LL devices without the need for a module, were regerded as needing a WM08 at launch.

And yet the Manticore/700/900, which do not support exising bluetooth devices, were regarded as *not* needing any such module.

Mike K........ No. Even though the headphones are 'stereophones' ........ the bluetooth channels are not separate circuits/channels.

TNSS........ were all settings the same...between Beach - Seawater Mode.....VS.....All Terrain - High Conductor Mode? (((In this case........ Recovery Speed...being the most important. , . , . , . , along with EMI mitigation))).
I'm glad to see you using/testing Beach - Seawater Mode at your inland sites! Soon...... you will see "why".........(((as long as EMI does not trump/inhibit the data collection))).

TimR...........although I'm not much into (specifically) the decision-making end of bluetooth/wireless of Manticore............. we did choose to use a much-more-modern bluetooth system on Manticore. The aftermarket hardware is still behind/lagging.........due to newness.
((( I'm with you .... on the WM08......even though it is slightly outdated! )))

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike K........ No. Even though the headphones are
> 'stereophones' ........ the bluetooth channels are
> not separate circuits/channels.
>
> TNSS........ were all settings the same...between
> Beach - Seawater Mode.....VS.....All Terrain - Hig
> h Conductor Mode? (((In this case........ Recover
> y Speed...being the most important. , . , . , . ,
> along with EMI mitigation))).
> I'm glad to see you using/testing Beach - Seawater
> Mode at your inland sites! Soon...... you will see
> "why".........(((as long as EMI does not trump/inh
> ibit the data collection))).
>
> TimR...........although I'm not much into (specifi
> cally) the decision-making end of bluetooth/wirele
> ss of Manticore............. we did choose to use
> a much-more-modern bluetooth system on Manticore.
> The aftermarket hardware is still behind/lagging..
> .......due to newness.
> ((( I'm with you .... on the WM08......even though
> it is slightly outdated! )))

Speed the same between the 2 modes.
I do a lot of switching around using the model.
Both hunting and when I get over suspect target.
Wish I would have swept deep coin with ATLC. Just to see result.

Ok. Good to know! Apples-to-Apples!
You are going to find some really neat discoveries/performance with Beach - Seawater....at your inland sites. As long as EMI does not hinder your resultant (especially SILENT EMI). Surf/Seawater Mode is MOST prone to EMI & silent EMI......... which........in turn...... will (wrongfully) skew your data-collection. (((Dirt/mineralization...... may also: skew))).

To anyone that has an answer: Where is the setting to enable / disable polyphonic audio feature? Is it enabled by default or is this something the user needs to manually turn On? Is there a special type of headphone to hear the multiple tones better? Thank you.




"The Manticore has the option to enable Polyphonic audio. This means the detector emits multiple tones at the same time which depict different attributes of the target. This is once again a much more sophisticated method of presenting target information."

Well maybe TOM will step in and be able to answer this question.

EPL II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To anyone that has an answer: Where is the setting
> to enable / disable polyphonic audio feature? Is i
> t enabled by default or is this something the user
> needs to manually turn On? Is there a special type
> of headphone to hear the multiple tones better? Th
> ank you.
>
>
>
>
> "The Manticore has the option to enable Polyphonic
> audio. This means the detector emits multiple tone
> s at the same time which depict different attribut
> es of the target. This is once again a much more s
> ophisticated method of presenting target informati
> on."

Polyphonic.
Poly - phonic

Poly = multi
Phonic = audio

Here is an example: Say you are in 1-Region, All Tones. You pass the coil over a jagged, elongated piece of aluminum soda-can can-slaw. The first part of the can-slaw is a larger blob of aluminum ...... that ID's (say) 33. The other end of the aluminum can-slaw narrows down to a very long, narrow, thin tail........ that ID's (say) 17. When the coil passes over the first part of the (large) blob of can-slaw....... the detector emits the audio (higher tone) that equates to a ID of 33. As the coil continues to pass over the can-slaw...... it then passes over the long, narrow, thin tail of the can-slaw....... with a ID of 17.....and the corresponding audio that belongs with a '17' ID. What YOU hear in the headphones..... is a descending audio 'warble'. A SINGLE audio report........ that warbles down in frequency. THIS is polyphonic audio.
If you are in 2-Tone audio option................ and this ONE target ...... with DIFFERING conductivity.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., reports anything that is non-ferrous as a single tone......... and a ID 33 .... and a ID of 17 are the same tone.,.,.,.,.,.,., then you will not experience any form of a polyphonic audio.

Polyphonic audio has NOTHING to do with LEFT earcup........ and RIGHT earcup!

Did I explain this ... with enough clarity???? Need more definition/explanation? Just holler!

On a different note =

This is something I take for granted; yet, realize....that conveying this....may help others.

Here's what happens VERY frequently.
Today....... I dug a 3" deep Zinc Penny. The ID was '61'. The 2D graph indicated a well-defined very dark/hard/bright dot...... exactly on '61' on the non-ferrous line; yet, there was a large (less brilliant) cloud of 'vertical stripe' ABOVE the 'hard dot'....... all the way up to the top limit on the 2D screen. There was (also) a very little bit of a 'less brilliant' cloud..... just beneath the 'hard dot' 61. It did NOT extend down to the bottom of the 2D graph.,.,.,.,.,., it extended maybe 1/5 the way down towards the bottom of the graph.
The 2D graph could have VERY easily talked me out of digging this coin. (Food-for-thought).
Good thing the penny was not 1" deeper. , . , . , . , . , otherwise.......... it may very well....have been completely masked. (Another = Food-for-thought).

This is merely/only one example............. whereby....... MANY (most) of this phenomenon ...... occurs more often than not.

NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a different note =
>
> This is something I take for granted; yet, realize
> ....that conveying this....may help others.
>
> Here's what happens VERY frequently.
> Today....... I dug a 3" deep Zinc Penny. The ID wa
> s '61'. The 2D graph indicated a well-defined very
> dark/hard/bright dot...... exactly on '61' on the
> non-ferrous line; yet, there was a large (less bri
> lliant) cloud of 'vertical stripe' ABOVE the 'hard
> dot'....... all the way up to the top limit on the
> 2D screen. There was (also) a very little bit of
> a 'less brilliant' cloud..... just beneath the 'ha
> rd dot' 61. It did NOT extend down to the bottom o
> f the 2D graph.,.,.,.,.,., it extended maybe 1/5 t
> he way down towards the bottom of the graph.
> The 2D graph could have VERY easily talked me out
> of digging this coin. (Food-for-thought).
> Good thing the penny was not 1" deeper. , . , . ,
> . , . , otherwise.......... it may very well....ha
> ve been completely masked. (Another = Food-for-tho
> ught).
>
> This is merely/only one example............. where
> by....... MANY (most) of this phenomenon ...... oc
> curs more often than not.


Little clip from my use of Manticore yesterday. Sorta reflective of your post here.
[m.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2023 11:07AM by tnsharpshooter.

Yes......... the 2D screen could have EASILY talked you out of digging that coin.

Thank you Tom for explaining.


NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Polyphonic.
> Poly - phonic
>
> Poly = multi
> Phonic = audio
>
> Here is an example: Say you are in 1-Region, All T
> ones. You pass the coil over a jagged, elongated p
> iece of aluminum soda-can can-slaw. The first part
> of the can-slaw is a larger blob of aluminum .....
> . that ID's (say) 33. The other end of the aluminu
> m can-slaw narrows down to a very long, narrow, th
> in tail........ that ID's (say) 17. When the coil
> passes over the first part of the (large) blob of
> can-slaw....... the detector emits the audio (high
> er tone) that equates to a ID of 33. As the coil c
> ontinues to pass over the can-slaw...... it then p
> asses over the long, narrow, thin tail of the can-
> slaw....... with a ID of 17.....and the correspond
> ing audio that belongs with a '17' ID. What YOU he
> ar in the headphones..... is a descending audio 'w
> arble'. A SINGLE audio report........ that warbles
> down in frequency. THIS is polyphonic audio.
> If you are in 2-Tone audio option................
> and this ONE target ...... with DIFFERING conducti
> vity.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., reports anything that is no
> n-ferrous as a single tone......... and a ID 33 ..
> .. and a ID of 17 are the same tone.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
> then you will not experience any form of a polypho
> nic audio.
>
> Polyphonic audio has NOTHING to do with LEFT earcu
> p........ and RIGHT earcup!
>
> Did I explain this ... with enough clarity???? Nee
> d more definition/explanation? Just holler!

First time out with the Manticore yesterday, so obviously still lots to learn, but WOW, that menu system is a dream!
I found myself configuring settings in the field that I was never confident to tamper with on the Nox without referring to the manual.
I'm especially thinking of the audio configuration and the target tones editor. Impressive!

Big THANK YOU to NASA-TOM (and other contributors) for all the data and insights you've provided in this thread.
I've been following it throughout, but re-reading the whole thing with the MC in my hands has been a great help in advancing my understanding.
I'm sure I'll be reading again once I've put more hours in.

As a software update suggestion...
How about an option to display ferrous target IDs in a different colour to non-ferrous?
I just think my brain would find that easier to pick up on/process than the red underscore (my poor eyesight doesn't help!).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2023 08:12PM by TimR.

TimR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First time out with the Manticore yesterday, so ob
> viously still lots to learn, but WOW, that menu sy
> stem is a dream!
> I found myself configuring settings in the field t
> hat I was never confident to tamper with on the No
> x without referring to the manual.
> I'm especially thinking of the audio configuration
> and the target tones editor. Impressive!
>
> Big THANK YOU to NASA-TOM (and other contributors)
> for all the data and insights you've provided in t
> his thread.
> I've been following it throughout, but re-reading
> the whole thing with the MC in my hands has been a
> great help in advancing my understanding.
> I'm sure I'll be reading again once I've put more
> hours in.
>
> As a software update suggestion...
> How about an option to display ferrous target IDs
> in a different colour to non-ferrous?
> I just think my brain would find that easier to pi
> ck up on/process than the red underscore (my poor
> eyesight doesn't help!).


As far as ferrous ID being different color.
Be careful what you wish for. All I will/can
say.

Cheers

Well I got around to putting up another video showing a few tips & clues about the 2D screen. For any new manticore users out there....

Learning The Manticore

I'm starting to open up the screen even more my goal is to get down to 4-5 Upper ferrous limits. This place I'm hunting is loaded with nothing but square nails as the old school was a wooden one and it was taken down early 1900s and the wood was repurposed. The land owner keeps the grass nice and low its my second home lol.... I've learned allot just being part of the forum and Tom has been very helpful and I appreciate the time he puts in helps us all out.... Thanks again Tom!!!!!

Mike K Ohio

Hi Tom. I just purchased the Manticore and will be getting it soon. I live in Norway and hunt mainly on old fields that have a good bit of iron in them. I was wondering if you could give some suggestions on which programs and setting I should start with to help my learning curve. It would be great if you could also give an overview og which programs and setting you recommend new users to use in different hunting areas. Thank you in advanced for your help and expertise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2023 11:38AM by NordicDetect.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:

> As far as ferrous ID being different color.
> Be careful what you wish for. All I will/can
> say.

You know, even as I wrote that suggestion it was in my mind that there might be a good reason why this wasn't implemented. It seems too obvious to be something that was just "missed"...

Have you seen something similar?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (as I have said this so many times in the past), I would like to see BOTH the FE and CO at the same time...that is, to me, the best of all possible solutions...

Steve

A book by Tom breaking down the settings and functions of the Manticore would be fabulous. Great data. It would be on par with the Jeff Foster books for the DFX and MXT. No redundant filler chapters telling us how ground balance or basic discrimination works.

Steveg:
I'll bet that's being saved for the Minelab Ultimate...the CTX 3030 replacement.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2023 06:20AM by PulltabKing.