I am predicting a lot of the CTX3030 "naysayers" will be eating "crow" a few weeks from now......

DrJoeprime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Price point is real interestring for me. It seems
> like it will be abouit $2500 list price discounted
> to perhaps $2200.
>
> During my beach hunts I'm in a position to make
> recommendations on entry level detectors. People
> are amazed that I don't advise them the $100 ones
> from Big 5 but rather the $200 Fisher F-2 or
> Garrett's Ace 250. They think $200 is a LOT to
> pay. Then they look at my short handled dry sand
> scoop which retails for close to $50. They always
> say wow. I don't tell them about the $100 wet sand
> scoop in my trunk which from other manufacturers


not to long ago is still here! $600.00 will get you a "crackerjack" detector!
just learn it,and away ya go!

(h.h.!)
j.t.
> goes for upwards of $175.
>
> Of course over about a years period I've received
> over $2400 gold melt value...and probably another
> $1000 in clad. But I'm in it for the joy and
> exercise ... and the fact that the hobby pays for
> itself...it's a definite bonus.
>
> I can remember...not too long ago when $600 would
> buy you a trop of the line detector (am I
> hallucinating?). Then about 3 years ago when I was
> lusting for the F-75 and thinking how can I
> justify spending upwards of $1000?
>
> Now the XP Deus is priced at just under $2000.
> Yikes...$2000 for a hobby metal detector? WOW
> $2200 for a Super Etrac with color screen?
>
> I don't know.....are we jaded?
>
> Joe (California)

Shimano Calais DC.......do the fish do a lottery draw to see who gets to ride on that bad boy reel. A little non-detecting humor



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 11:49PM by TerraDigger.

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jmaryt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > steveg Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > earthman --
> > >
> > > While I agree with most of your points, I
> just
> > > wanted to offer an opinion that perhaps it
> may
> > be
> > > risky to take the testers' comments with any
> > more
> > > than a grain of salt, at this point. You
> said
> > > that you spoke to a tester who said the CTX
> is
> > > "incredible, and way beyond the E-Trac..." I
> > > can't imagine the tester saying anything BUT
> > that;
> > > I personally want to wait until a person I
> > > percieve to have less "bias" or "vested
> > interest,"
> > > offer their thoughts on the performance of
> this
> > > unit (ideally, NASA-Tom!)
> > >
> > > I would think, at this point, that anyone who
> > has
> > > been permitted to have their hands on the
> unit
> > > thus far (pre-release), would NOT be truly
> > "free"
> > > to offer an "unbiased" perspective on its
> > > performance. And, given the expected cost of
> > this
> > > unit, I'm guessing that "unbiased, very
> > positive
> > > reviews" would be MANDATORY for many users,
> > before
> > > being able to justify the expense.
> > >
> > > Just a thought...I look forward, with an open
> > > mind, to some good, honest reviews of FBS2...
> > >
> > > Steve
> >
> >
> > well stated! unless ya have one in your own
> > hands,how can ya possibly trust
> > people associated in any way with minelab? as
> > mentioned in a prevous post,it is my contention
> > that 6 months listening to regular "unbiased"
> > users,along with" independant" forum response
> > will
> > be required before making a rational buying
> > decision.also,keep in mind,that the models
> being
> > produced in the
> > first year may have engineering,and/or
> > manufacturing "bugs" to resolve so as the man
> so
> > eloquently stated,
> > "let the buyer beware"
>
> How do you know the relationship between me and
> the tester/user? The very same conjecture you
> accuse me of, you are guilty of. You just think
> you are more comfortable in your conclusions than
> I am in mine but the difference is you didn't hear
> it from the horses mouth. I have a feeling when
> the machine is released that many, including you,
> will say, wow, wow, wow, wow - I think I will say,
> check, check, wow, wow. ;-)


ok! kewl! i don't care! what i am saying is ya have to give it time in the hands of
totally unbiased users. thats all i am saying! nothin' else! if it turns out to be the greatest thing
since rock and roll! so be it!,however it IS going to take time to make that determination!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $600.00 can still get one a top of the line
> machine. If results/performance are used as a
> criteria, and not the price tag. The Omega and its
> clone, the AT Pro are two examples that come to
> mind. Are they salt water machines.....no....will
> they do Culpepper, VA soil? No! But for around
> $600.00 they pack a tremendous amount of
> performance in most areas. But heck, as most here
> know, there are applications the big ticket
> machines flounder on. If one adjusts for the
> devaluation of today's dollar...I think we are
> getting far more value with certain models of
> lower priced machines these days..than at anytime
> in the past. At today's spot silver price...a
> E-Trac/Deus owner needs to dig approximately
> 250-300 more silver dimes than my Omega can, under
> the same detecting conditions, to offset the cost
> difference. I'll bet with my Omega's 3 coil
> arsenal ($750.00), I can get 90% of what a
> E-Trac/Deus can in the turf. If one has a
> specialized need, sure, go for the big ticket
> (1500.00 and up) machine. Right tool for the job
> scenario. Provided one is going to get a half way
> decent return, whether monetary, historical or
> simply having a detector that works properly in a
> unique environment being detected.


well said! very descriptive way of ecohing my sentiments!
after being in the hobby for over 34 years,i can attest that this information
is 'dead nuts" accurate! eh! he he! the manufacturers of course will vehemently
disagree,but what would you expect them to say?

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Not being the engineer type, I was wondering if FBS technology recovery speed is limited due to it being FBS (Time Domain). I.E......faster/multiple micro-processors will not enhance recovery capabilities.
Anyone want to venture a opinion on this speculation of mine?

TerraDigger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not being the engineer type, I was wondering if
> FBS technology recovery speed is limited due to it
> being FBS (Time Domain). I.E......faster/multiple
> micro-processors will not enhance recovery
> capabilities.
> Anyone want to venture a opinion on this
> speculation of mine?

I think that is exactly what I was saying after Tom mentioned Time Domain or the like a few months ago. But that said I remember when I was in college in a forensic science program and they were talking about a DNA sampling technique. At crime scenes they often have just a small small amount of bood - not enough to test with. A solution was found out, they create a reaction to further the sample (PCR - polymerase chain reaction). It is sort of an extrapolation in a sense, starting with a too small sample but replicating it to larger sample. Maybe you guys with more of an inkling in electronics can offer a more related example.

Enter FBS2?

So, I wonder if even though FBS technology requires some time, not to process, but rather just to listen so to speak for the reaction in the ground to occur(?) - IF they could extrapolate the results from a smaller time sample into a larger one?

Or, maybe they somehow could speed up the time needed by changing or varying the "variables" used. I don't understand Time Domain , but I would think there are ways to shorten the time needed. Variables could include all those things Tom has mentioned with FBS ;-)

So what affects would using a different set of frequencies have? (I heard the CTX is using more frequencies - it is "FBS2" right?) What about using more energy to "speed" time domain up - look at that big battery? Just guessing but I am absolutely sure there would be clever ways to somewhat speed things up. The question is, would it be enough for us to really take notice? In 4 years, why not? But we'll see.

Albert

As in any new item that goes up for sale , there will be hype .......Hype is there to get the ball rolling and to get people's pockets loosened up , and to sell product ...... This being said , unless a new machine comes on the market , with NEW TECHNOLOGY , I"m out !!...... I have said it before , and I will say it again , too much of what is out there today is merely rebadged technology ..... Same machine , different face !!.....

There is only ONE THING that will tell you how much a machine is worth .......and that is to take the TIME to learn the machine ..... Every machine reacts differently in different area's ..... How you use the machine and how you set it up has a lot to do with your results ..... You can take the same machine, in the same area, and in different hands the results will change ....There is really not enough time testing new machines in various conditions , at various area's around th country , or even around the world , to really know the facts well enough to know whether you should buy a new machine or not ...... So that brings us back to hype !!.....

Those who have the money for a new XYZ machine will jump on it and talk about how much they love it to justify it's cost .......Then there are those who wish they could afford that same XYZ machine , and talk about about how their XYM machine can do mostly all that the XYZ machine can do, and try to justify not spending the money on the XYZ machine ....... One thing I have found with many items that I buy to keep my toy box full !!!.......There are good products , and there are GREAT products .....It's that last 10% of performance that you are paying so much money for .....The Creme la Creme ....The Icing on the cake !!...... This is not ALWAYS the case , but surely enough in many cases to lead me to wrting this .....How much is that last 10% worth to you ? .....

Myself ? ... I have been going back in time and have been buying machines that did and do a GREAT job , for a lot less money than buying tnto the hype .....I let others do the work for me , and if I see that a machine is worthy of my hard earned money , I will purchase it ....... I no longer have to be the first kid on the block with a new XYZ machine .....Yes , I've gotten older , but have FINALLY gotten wiser !!...... Jim

FBS needs time, we know that and we know it is very deep on the silver atleast in compacted dirt. And it will lose a bit to the iron when there is lots of it. No secrets.

FBS 2 may be alot faster but it could also be that Minelab have improved their ID circuitry to better identify coins among iron. To be honest i have tested nearly all top machines and if you have iron 2-3 inches ontop of a coin a fast recovery speed will not help.

So why try to copy the fast ones ? It seems to me Minelab did it their own way and we might expect a very different solution to the problem of masking.

And I will welcome it.... If they say its new it is NEW, we are the ones to judge if the news work for us in our environment and on our preferred targets.

Lets see......

Jim - I remember when the AT Pro came out. You, Keith S. and Tom D. wrote about the initial coil falsing problem.

Actually, Tom gave the AT an otherwise glowing review based on his field testing.

You guys got slammed by a lot of the AT's first on the blocks (what I call full price beta testers) who said falsing wasn't an issue. But you didn't back down.

At first, Garrett responded individually to complaints telling people to send the unit in for repair. Finally they grudgingly came out with a $40 recall mixed in with an upgrade since they added an extended arm cuff, camlocks and a refreshed two year warranty.

The long winded point I was making here, Jim, is that from my selfish viewpoint as someone unwilling to be a 2K plus "full price beta tester", I was hoping you would be since you are one of those guys I can count on to give an unbiased honest opinion.

I would imagine Tom will get his hands on a 3030 in short order, hopefully Keith will quickly surrender to his curiousity too.

marcomo,

I remember that time specifically because the only way I could speak about the problem where someone would listen , was to join this forum and I was having a problem trying to sign on !!......Keith was also talking about the problem at the same time ..... You had Garrett saying that the falsing was normal , and the Garrett folowers taking it as gospel ,and forums that would hang you out to dry, and ban you if you mentioned anything bad about their sponcers products ......

Someone will SURELY be a guinea pig and purchase this machine on this forum ...... and thanks to Tom for having this forum where we can speak HONESTLY , we will get an HONEST opinion at least from the area that the guy who purchased the produst is from ........ In a lot of cases we purchase machines and have certain expectations , and have these expectations from all the hype that has been shoved down our throats .......Sometimes we luck out and find that diamond in the rough and end up with a BETTER machine than we thought we purchased ....... The last few machines I have bought have been BETTER than I expected them to be ...... and I atrribute that to takng the time to learn the machines good and bad points .....Once the AT Pro got sorted out with the coil issue , I will stand by my staement that it is still one of the best bang for the buck machines out there ......Yes, there are better, but for the money I can't think of any ...Again , YMMV ...... I'm also STILL very happy wtih my E Trac but would not have been had it not been for my buddy EZ who helped me tremendously getting up to speed with this machine ....He owned one of the first E Trac's and I benefitted from his knowledge on this fine machine .....Jim

I hope to have it not many days after the 28th...

Availability and funds will tell.

frnifo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope to have it not many days after the 28th...
>
> Availability and funds will tell.


Looks like we will be Guinea Pigs! I have never been so happy to be name called. LOL

More can be done in iron mineralized soils and I think the CTX will be that - that GB button is a giveaway to it being a more effective in bad ground.
Think of the user suggestions since the E-Trac came out - I bet you most will be there, not that I know anything ;-)

We will be very lucky guinea pigs...:-)

Sure looks like more can be done in iron then just talk recovery speed. I also think that the marketing plot and " the future of detecting " will be ruined if it just is a faster recovery detector. We have numerous of those already...

No, its something very different that will make some hairloss.

Well Ray-Mo., it's been a few weeks now - still no "crow" in sight.

Maybe a few more weeks...

11 More days to "SHOCK AND AWE"..........


Tom in SC

Speaking of huge battery..... just wonder how much some of these replacement parts are going to cost us. Looks like they may have tried to make it difficult to JUST ADD BATTERIES. I stayed on the side line when the ET came out and still never bought one. Like was mentioned..... ill wait and see and hunt with some one that has one to see if they can capture signicantly more GOOD targets than i do. Notice i said good targets. Hey Doc..... aint you from MO??

Dew

FYI.....

I got a call from a freind who already owns a 30/30 and according to him this is the best thing he's ever seen since he started detecting over 40yrs ago. All the things MINELAB claims it can do is TRUE, according to him.

I'll take my humble pie warm, please.....

We full price beta testers will leave nothing, NOTHING!, for you foot draggers to find!!

;^)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 02:44PM by Yeasty.

I would still wait till you get it before fantastic claims are made...

Proverbs 16:18

One things for sure. I have quit reading all other Detecting websites. With the huge price tag on the CTX 3030 all other sites will be dominated by those who stand to make money by touting it as the greatest detector ever.

They will release the price tonight..

And all the particulars as I was told this morning...

So maybe all will be revealed...

Keith

many possible buyers will be bored by the whole charade and just get a deus ,you cant unchange the weight and expected price which appears to be in a ball park figure

diggers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> many possible buyers will be bored by the whole
> charade and just get a deus ,you cant unchange the
> weight and expected price which appears to be in a
> ball park figure

If they did that it would be just cause they want what's "The latest and greatest" so to speak. I mean the Deus and CTX are very different machines, at least in how they operate.

I got to use my friends Deus today for 5 hours or so and he used his E-Trac. We hunted mostly by a swimming hole (lake). I have to say, I never dug so many bottle caps, he dug less than 5. Now, maybe that next update fixes that but I wasn't getting an iron buzz on all of them and didn't want to pass things up. Most targets were 3" or so deep. The VID on those targets (and I had pump balanced it when not in the sand) were all over the place. I mean from 75 to 84 on targets that read 81 out of the ground. I did dig a ring that rang out at 30 and I don't normally dig VID's down that low. It looks platinum but there is no stamp, so it's probably not - joykill! ehehhe

Anyway, my point is that they are different machines. I still see the E-Trac as a great coin machine and the Deus as a field/meadow machine or in Deus fast - working heavy iron. Really two different machines.

I'll jump in and probably get a CTX, my Deus has been returned and my E-Trac is for sale. I figure since I'm a coin hunter it would be better to have the CTX and a cheaper site machine (fast in iron) than the before mentioned two. I'll use the Rutus Jupiter for the next two weeks and see how I like it...

Albert

So when does the price of the machine come out, I like to stay up on things, I will not get one , maybe used down the road, I'd rather find a nice site to detect

earthmansurfer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diggers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > many possible buyers will be bored by the whole
> > charade and just get a deus ,you cant unchange
> the
> > weight and expected price which appears to be in
> a
> > ball park figure
>
> If they did that it would be just cause they want
> what's "The latest and greatest" so to speak. I
> mean the Deus and CTX are very different machines,
> at least in how they operate.
>
> I got to use my friends Deus today for 5 hours or
> so and he used his E-Trac. We hunted mostly by a
> swimming hole (lake). I have to say, I never dug
> so many bottle caps, he dug less than 5. Now,
> maybe that next update fixes that but I wasn't
> getting an iron buzz on all of them and didn't
> want to pass things up. Most targets were 3" or so
> deep. The VID on those targets (and I had pump
> balanced it when not in the sand) were all over
> the place. I mean from 75 to 84 on targets that
> read 81 out of the ground. I did dig a ring that
> rang out at 30 and I don't normally dig VID's down
> that low. It looks platinum but there is no stamp,
> so it's probably not - joykill! ehehhe
>
> Anyway, my point is that they are different
> machines. I still see the E-Trac as a great coin
> machine and the Deus as a field/meadow machine or
> in Deus fast - working heavy iron. Really two
> different machines.
>
> I'll jump in and probably get a CTX, my Deus has
> been returned and my E-Trac is for sale. I figure
> since I'm a coin hunter it would be better to have
> the CTX and a cheaper site machine (fast in iron)
> than the before mentioned two. I'll use the Rutus
> Jupiter for the next two weeks and see how I like
> it...
>
> Albert


I'm on board with you Albert.
I'm looking forward to your post on the CTX

I saw a video on the Minelab site... it looks like a good unit. It does look like a weed whacker in the pic but in the hands of the operator it doesn't look any bigger or heavier than the etrac. It does come with a AA 8 cell battery pack if you want as well as a car charger too. I like the idea of IDing two targets under the coil simultaneously. It'll be a winner for sure... maybe not a winner for everyone but its a winner none-the-less.

silverhound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am amazed at all the negative speculaution on
> various forums considering how little we know
> about this new machine . If I were to judge it
> solely on Minelabs past record/history I am
> thinking it will be a top notch performer.
> A company does not get to the top by producing
> lemons unless they are into lemonade sales lol.


Maybe I'll eat crow maybe I wont..... Heres my ML history/take on this ...

back around '93 I had 10 + yrs under my belt and thought I "knew it all" (god dont i wish) I was swinging my mainstream detector having fun and making some finds. A merc here a barber there sprinkle in some wheats, it was all good. then the rumblings began..... a new detector.... it will detect deeper than anything ....If u get a signal, remove the plug and if the disappears then dig deeper its still there, "you just lost the soil bridge" (remember that ?) I ended up being the proud owner of one of the first few sovereigns owned in this region.
I didnt realize then(and certainly didnt complain), why I started doing so well... I thought it was the technology (to some degree it was) More barbers, mercs, and alot of indians began flowing from the ground ...oh and LOTS of wheats....I found more wheats, silvers and indians that first 2 years with the original SOV, then I ever had previoulsy with my other beepers in the previous 10+ YRS combined! It didnt seem to matter where I placed the coil; old parks, boulevards, school yards you name it the old coins began pouring out ....
I was so impressed with that I thought I HAD to have the water version as well ...So I quickly became the proud owner of excalibur #124 (an early Gary Storm model) From all accounts it appeared like I was the second person in MI. to own a mighty excal (although I could be wrong). the finds in water absolutely dwarfed my land finds, old coins, rings, medallions all the good stuff (plus all the aluminum) I could ever dream of. Old swimming holes came back to life, new swimming holes were absolutely exhausting(yet rewarding), and best of it all....I could hunt land in the rain. I felt like I was on top of the detecting world ...
Fast forward a cpl yrs and what do u know...ML has a new offering, a deeper/better/improved SOV..... I quickly sold my original SOV to fund the new one ...a SOV XS, it just has to be better....right ?!?! Around the same time ML was coming out with the upgraded excal...same story ....has to be better, so I bit into the new hype... New Sov, new Excal.... no new performance, yet higher price ...what gives ?!?
I played that game for one more generation for each unit, only to find I had (as Eddy Murphy once said) "the same old saltine cracker" ....minus (a total of) 1200+ USD for the learning experiences....
Looking back now I can see that it wasnt just the tech that made all these finds, equally important was the "type" of coil ie. DD that ML incorporated on their machines, where most other mainstream MFR's were still producing concentric coils .... The DD coils were fairly new to this area, and seen things differently then the concentrics...again, I didnt realize that back then, I just thought I was some sort of lucky dude or detecting god.
Fast forward ca. '99/2K...new tech, the latest and greatest...... explorer XS....FBS Wow, looks good ...do I bite on this ? Nope, not right away.... I was freshly feeling sore in the behind from my BBS experiences.... I sit back and watch. I do my due diligence, The user reviews are good, the finds look good. Then... In 2K1 Im the proud owner of an explorer XS. Again, all my old haunts light up, more barbers, indians, AND more seateds in the first cpl yrs, than I had found in all previous years plus my first bust. All is good, finds flowing to the pouch(daily), and a cheshire cat grin that a plastic surgeon couldnt remove!
fast forward some more, a few yrs later here it comes again....EXPLORER 2....Do I bite...Hell yea I do.... I bite into it like a tough loin steak from an old milk cow... If the XS was that good the 2 must be better.... right ?!? What was my learning experience from that, you might ask ..... It had a black coil instead of white, and the SCREEN was faster (minus another 275 usd)
Fast forward a few more YRs ....does history repeat itself with the SE ....not quite, I hold off from taking the plunge... then the SE pro walks out ....yeap, thats gotta be "IT" .... new pro coil, improved/better/ yada yada.... do I bite ? yes I do.... What was my learning experience with the SE pro, you might ask ?!? FBS technology still the same, screen pretty much the same, and new coil falses more .....dig more iron than any other ML Ive owned! whats the solution?!? sell it, re-buy used explorer XS (minus 300 USD)
A few Yrs later here comes the etrac ....Do I bite ? nope.... will I ever ... nope! Now here we go with FBS2, the 3030 ....Its gotta be the next greatest right....

Getting back to the original comments of this post, when speaking of minelabs "record/history" ...IN "MY" ML history, Im feeling like its a matter of screw me once shame on you ,screw me twice shame on me.
A company may not get to the top producing lemons, but some certainly arent below smearing perfume on a pig and jacking up the price, to get there.... Ive seen it once or twice ...

I really do hope everyone gets 2K+ worth of a detector with the new FBS2 (especially sight-unseen....U R some brave souls), I know firsthand what its like to be left disenchanted with the next "latest/greatest" ML offering...

PS. IF I do have to eat crow, Ill take mine w/honey BBQ ;-) but if not, let me know what U 3030'rs want on your crow... good luck

Terry

Awww Terry one thing ive noticed since ive gotten older. When i was young i just jumped in not caring about the results..... living for the day. Nows the other side of the coin..... i seem to have lived it so i know the outcome before it happens. Not sure thats much better. From what ive read its not the seeing multi targets but tone adjustment thats going to make this a better mouse trap. To me its always been about tone you just couldnt trust anything elce. Remember the aaah haaa moment when you dug a target that IDed something elce that your ears had already told you it was? Id like to see some honest posts.... but i expect a lot of interest in the new add ons to throw off the true test.... the finds.

Dew

go-rebels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Ray-Mo., it's been a few weeks now - still no
> "crow" in sight.
>
> Maybe a few more weeks...

Not sure where you learned to count go-rebels but May 07 to May 17 hardly equates to a "few weeks"

Let's see if anything changes tomorrow.

The arrogance...