Dilek - MAKRO

Well the sun finally came out and I had to go outside and give this thing a whirl in the bad dirt I have in my back yard. First I downloaded the manual and read over it last night at work and I wanted to get some air test basics down with it before I took it to the soil. So for those interested, here are my results with the 9 and 11 inch coils:


9 INCH COIL:

copper wheat cent -- 9"
5 CENT nickel -- 11.5"
10 cent dime -- 9"
25 cent quarter -- 11"
.58 Minie Ball -- 11"

These settings were in both Mode 1 and Mode 2 of the tone modes, with sens at max.

11 INCH COIL:

copper wheat cent -- 11"
5 cent nickel -- 12.5"
10 cent dime -- 11"
25 cent quarter -- 12"
.58 Minie Ball -- 12"

----------------------------------------------------------------

Well to be honest, I was thinking this is gonna be a so/so machine. The results are not as great as some...but I tell you what is the truth...I have tested some units that air tested crazy good...that really lost their grit in the dirt. I recently tested a CZ6a that air tested a dime at 11"...but in my soil, it lost the high tone ID at just 4 inches in the ground.

At some point...all detectors ID will shift in my soil and begin giving an iron signal on non ferrous objects. Some handle the soil better than others.

First up...was an easy 5.5 inch silver dime...and next was a quarter at 8 inches down. The quarter is a really tough one to get...even the eTrac and Explorer can only get it with the larger coils, and the ID is bouncy.

Well the C.F. was able to obtain high tone signals on BOTH of these targets. I expected it on the dime...but the quarter was the one that threw me for a loop.

This particular machine doesn't have a setting for discrimination. Basically you have 3 tones. One tone is low for iron...one is a mid tone for low conductors..and then a higher tone for high conductors. Now to be honest...the tones for the mid tone and high tone are VERY close together. They need to be divided a little better...maybe a sharper higher pitch tone for the high conductors would be better. At any rate....you cannot control where the shift from mid to high tone is...this is all preset. There is no iron discrimination. There is a setting knob for audio of the iron...in which you can turn it up to hear the iron sound or turn it all the way down...which would be basically putting the iron audio on mute.

With that said. The next thing I wanted to do was establish the end of the spectrum in which the shift went to the iron audio in my ground. In other words...how deep could I still detect a coin and it give the correct tone for it. I pretty much already knew that it was going to be beyond 5.5 inches...and I wanted to use a realistic target to determine this. So I chose a silver dime and a copper penny. And for kicks and giggles...that 58 minie ball too.

End results?

It seems that 10.5 inches is about the cut off for the 11 inch coil on the minie ball. Which is quite jaw dropping to say the least for my soil. And it was a fresh buried one at that...so I imagine a real one in the ground would sound even better.

On the coin end of things...the copper penny was obtainable down to 9 inches, and the same for the silver dime.

Let me put this into perspective for you.

I currently own an e-Trac and Explorer XS...and with them, I have a few coils between them.

If I put the same size coil on either of those machines...and go over the same targets...I will NOT get them. Nope. I just came inside from trying. If I open the screen fully open...the signal is there but it is all iron and does not budge on both machines. On the eTrac the icon is buried in the lower right of the screen on the copper penny and dime...and nothing on the minie ball at 11 inches.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now...this is just the yard test. I will have to put everything into play in a real world hunt and see how it does. This machine reminds me somewhat of the Blisstool machine. Raw audio...can seemingly go deep in bad ground. But I wonder if it shares the love for deep iron...and giving deep iron a good signal while in the ground...and then correctly IDing it when it is out of the ground? That is what I am interested in seeing. I will also test the machine on some of the more common trash items dug while coin hunting and try to find where about the tone break point shifts from the mid tone to the high tone.

I did notice a strange thing when I dug the minie ball up. I could detect the minie in the ground with the machine ground balanced. But when I dug the minie ball up, and had it laying on top of the ground in the dirt clod...the machine would only pick it up about 4 inches away from the coil. I could pick the minie up and run it by the coil and it would pick it up the air test difference. I could throw it back in the hole and cover it back up with dirt...and get it down in the hole. But laying on top of the loose dirt...it lost a lot of its signal. Now this was with the iron audio turned to 0...the off position. I turned it up to see if maybe it was giving an iron signal...and it sure was. Laying on the ground...it would give an iron signal until it was close to the coil. But in the ground...it wouldn't give the iron signal....when it was deeper there was sort of a bleeding/blending tone between the iron sound and high tone...but if you turned the iron audio off, all you could hear is the high tone coming in.

Now there are a couple things I do not like about the machine.

Bill said one of them in his post as well. The battery system is probably the number one. This is also my gripe on the GPX. This battery doesn't weigh anywhere near what the GPX battery weighs though...so that is a plus. But you are still left with the only two options of being...belt mounted or strapped to the control box. The only thing about the control box is that it makes it one sided heavy and it wants to flop over when you sit it down.

The other is the S rod. I am not a fan of S rod detectors. On this particular platform...the style grip on the Fors CoRe would be the better choice. Even without the target ID on the handle...if it just had the handle and maybe a pinpoint button...that would be 1,000 times better.

I like the 9 and 11 inch coils...but really don't see a practical use for the super big coil. I'm afraid to even attach it to the lower rod because that thing is H-E-A-V-Y. I do like the round coil designs though. I think this machine would be better fitted with a small coil...rather than the large one. Perhaps a 5 or 6 inch round coil would be a good choice for it.

That is all for now...just some first test run thoughts. I am very curious as to how this machine will handle in real world conditions.

Nice report Daniel....look forward to the next, thank you.

Good report Daniel, very interesting findings. I suspect it would do well in our mineralized soil in California as well.

Sounds like it's a capable machine, but it could use some modernization on ergonomics, tone tweaks and a meter would be nice

Their latest rendition of the Impact looks like it'll be a winner in the ergo dept., so they're listening, as it's quite a departure from the Racer like Impact we saw leaked a while back.

Now THAT'S an interesting report........ with somewhat unexpected results! Here in Florida, my depth performance was poor with the CF77.
Thanks for the incremental report!

Good write up, Daniel. Lot of info packed into that report.

The battle against the ground response is changing. The new thought process is, "I have this ground effect that is never going away, what can I do with it to make it my friend instead of my enemy".

We are seeing results from that type of thinking from several different mfgs.

HH
Mike

does the CF needs minerals to go deeper and better id ?

Daniel Always gives the straight scoop---keep up the good/bad/ugly reports.

Well....I ran the machine for about 2 hours this morning at my new homesite. I had the 11" coil on it and also had the eTrac with 11" ProCoil on it to check signals with. What I basically did was hunt with one machine and then marked signals and then compared. The results? Well before I dug anything up, I was beginning to think the CoinFinder had unlocked a whole new level of goodies that the eTrac wasn't seeing. I located several signals with it that the eTrac did not like...that the C.F. was ringing out on loud and clear.

They all were deep iron or tin. Every one of them. They would sound good before I would dig...from all angles, 100% repeatable signals. And then once I would dig, and get the target out of the hole, it would be broken signal...or no signal at all (until the iron volume was turned up).

The C.F. didn't locate any non ferrous signal that the eTrac didn't also locate...and vice versa. But the eTrac wasn't fooled by the tin and small/medium size pieces of flat iron either. No coins found...at this particular site, I obviously would have dug any high tone signals but most of what is left there are lower - mid conductive targets that I am digging now.

As of this hunt, if hunting in places with flat iron or tin...I don't see the C.F. being a good choice. It sounds too good on it to pass up. Reminds me a lot of the Blisstool V3 on its ability to test good in bad ground...but not so good in real world situations when it comes to iron. I should be able to finish up my testing this week and then pass it on to whomever is next on the list. I have another couple sites I wanna run it through.

Where is this "list" Daniel -- do you have to sign up? = I wanna try it out here in mild Michigan soil if I can get in on this testing gig?

Daniel....... thanks for the interim report. . . . and certainly looking forward to your future testing results.
Right now........ my plan is to have you send it to Keith next........ for a 1-Day test. Then........ Wayne........ it could be your turn after that.

Cool beans -

I'll give her a spin!

Text me when yer done w/it Keith

PS

when she makes it to me here in MI = I'm just going to field test it in the field (real world hunt/s) on a couple of mid 1800s iron infested sites close to home here with slight variations in soils and report back with the functionality of the machine i/under those conditions, the depth of targets, any/all finds made, and any likes/dislikes in both performance and physical characteristics of the unit and then ship her on to the next person on the list



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2015 12:46AM by MichiganRelicHunter.

You got it Wayne!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

What is the update on the testing?

I sent it to Keith but the trail has gone quiet.

I didn't get to test as much as I wanted. I did take it to one of my civil war sites...the skirmish site with all the bullets and cannonball frags. The problem was...I did not have a lot of time and did not have a flagger machine to locate likely bullets with...and then test the C.F. over top of them. So I had to rely on trying to find a bullet or two with just the C.F. It did not happen. But this is tough ground I am talking about...and has been hunted with the best pulse machines in the world. So I sent it on down the dusty trail to the next person.

Daniel Tn.......... I could have Keith send it back to you........ if you feel that you will have some time to spend with the unit......... and it's worth your efforts/time/labor.

NASA Tom -- My time is all tied up with work during our busy season. I've worked 40+ days straight and counting. No holidays off. And now people have started getting sick and not coming into work...so I'm having to cover part of their shift too. I MIGHT start getting some time off in February/March if things slow down. But certainly not enough time to test anything throughly and balance moving into my new house and other stuff too.

Ok........... and will certainly keep you in mind for when you do have a window of opportunity. In the meantime MRH/Wayne has it next.

Machine arrived to me here yesterday afternoon.

1st thoughts out of the box = very nice package/case. Much better than just a machine in a box. Makes it very portable with all contents on hand with easy access.

Easy setup, good quality coils, strong ears, thick cables, solid.

Battery location is an inconvenience as Daniel mentioned (hip-mount or strap it to the control box) of which neither are a good choice/option imo.

Also as Daniel mentioned - the "S" handle/rod is a bad choice - this machine would be much better with the same rod/handle setup as the Fors Gold+ has.

Pretty much just a turn on and go machine - 3 preset modes = General, Disc 1, Disc 2 with a vol control, a GB adjustment, iron audio knob that only works on disc 1 and 2, and a sensitivity knob/adjustment.

Air test in all modes with the small 9" coil (the only one I'm really interested in but will test the others) was off the charts with anything from flat and 2 piece buttons to small/thin silver coins to indian heads to nickels as well as silver 1/2 dollars... Impressive to say the least.

Tones = 3 tones in disc 1 and 2 (low, med, high) as was mentioned by others,

This is my initial report of receiving the machine and in setting it up. I will be taking it out for a real world hunt to my 1840s/50s ghost town site either tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday depending on my workload and I will be video taping and give a full report of my results/experience with it at that time.

Stay tuned

HH

MRH
Wayne

Who would like to try the CF77 next?

Tom, if the following sites match what you are looking for I would like to give it a shot. I have two yards in high emi areas in different towns that I have hit quite hard with my g2. One site has clay that starts at 5 to 6 inches.
I am able to hunt some days during lunches and hopefully a few hours on weekends. It would probably take at least two or three weeks to be thorough though, given the time of year and short individual hunt lengths.

I take no offense if my situation doesn't suit.

Thanks
Rod

Rod, your request sounds more than reasonable. Contact MRH/Wayne for shipping directions. Take your time with the detector...... until your gut tells you that you have 'mission accomplished' results. Just keep us posted....... so as to continue the 'above board' motto.

Hi Peeps.
I decided to stick this report on the original.

I took the CF77 out two times since receiving it. It has been a challenge to find time between all the rain we have been getting and Christmas family time.
The first time I went to a yard with high emi. I have hunted this yard two times prior with the G2 and stock coil. The majority of coins in it were wheat cents, silver as
old as standing liberties and mercury dimes. The oldest coin I have pulled from there was a 1901 Indian head around 8", on the second G2 trip. Once I had determined the
depth of the wheats to be mostly around 4 inches or so, I had passed over a lot of them on the front edge of the front yard with the G2 knowing I would get this to test.

For this first test I used the 9" coil, ground balanced, was able to set sensitivity to 8, and had the machine on disc 1. I started at the area of the wheats, and dug 8 of them, all with depths between 3 and 6 inches. The shallowest 2 wheats were extremely loud signals, to the point of the audio quality distorting a bit, and making it hard to tell the actual tone. I took a nickel from my pocket, put it on the ground in one of the shallower holes, and again it was hard for me to tell the difference between the mid tone and high tone because of the volume. The deeper items were easier to discern.

The unit does not have a pinpoint function, but it was quite easy to pinpoint using the method of pulling the coil back while sweeping, then turning 90 degrees and doing the same.

As this is a very nice yard, I only dug 3 really faint high tones. One was an iron washer about 1" in diameter about 10" deep, one was a small copper rivet looking thing around 8", and the third was a nail. The high tones were the dominant tone as I circled the targets, but not 100% of the sweeps. On each of them, I also did very small sweeps as I pulled the coil back to me off the targets, and the nail I guessed would be bad before digging because it faded to low grunt, but the rivet and washer I was thinking old coin.

The second site I went to was a field that has been part of a farm since the early 1800s. I lived next to it from birth until college. I have found at least a dozen arrowheads in it while small game hunting. It is 90 acres, and I have only detected on it once for an hour prior. Saturday was a huge challenge. The field has a very high amount of a brown clay, so much that there was standing water in places, but when digging down, the ground wasnt all the wet past 3 or 4 inches. I had a terrible time trying to ground balance the cf77, so I ended up hunting a smaller area, re-balancing once I found a mid/hi tone target to see if the signal was altered at a range of ground baland settings, then also using the G2 with ultimate coil to get an idea of target type before digging. After doing this for the first ones, I set it a few clicks up from zero and carried on, as it seemed about the best. carrying two detectors, the shovel and a tarp to put the un-used detector on while finding targets got tiring quick, but was a good workout, so no complaining, right?

I used the 12 inch coil here. Anyway, I never found any coins. I dug 13 objects, all with high or mid tone, and due to the first test and all the muck, I only dug tones that didnt fade to low grunts as
I pulled the coil back. 10 were bullets, 2 were balled up wads of copper wire like every farmer in Bucks County must chuck off their wagons for fun, and one was a buckle I estimated at slightly more than a foot. Two of the bullets were musket balls, but the others were modern shotgun slugs, and .22 rounds. Other than the shallowest ones, the G2 bounced around pretty much as is typical for lead, but because of the puddles, and patchy clay I would have dug them anyway based on the age of the field service.

The buckle came through clearly on the cf77 and I was hoping for a big coin. This field is next to the one that Ozzie dug the 1793 Reale earlier this summer, so normally, almost anything would have gotten dug regardless of tone.

I had to stop testing when target 14 was a small piece of pewter. I am a sucker for pewter items. The G2 wasnt jumpy at all on it, so I stopped with the CF77 since I was getting low on light and just circled the original pewter bit, and dug 7 more pewter bits in a 20 x 20 area. I think it is a spoon, but am going back there and hopefully finish as much of the jigsaw puzzle I started.

We are getting more rain and lousy weather, so I am not sure when my next outing will be.

Sooooooo enough narrative. My random comments:

I know my forearms are a not small, but I physically cannot fit my arm inside the cuff, and get the stock velcro strap to close.

The stock headphones do not have a volume control, and although there is volume controls for both iron and main volume on the cf77, I almost went deaf trying to keep the volume high for small targets, and get blasted by shallows. The second day, I used the headphones I got from Tom D. when I bought the G2, turned the cf77 up pretty loud, and used the volume control on the headphones to tone everything down. Also, the sound seemed much more nuanced then.

The tones are very nice to hear, and other than the really loud shallow tones, were easy for me to pick out.

Everything seems to be built very strongly, the cams are strong, and nothing is wobbly, etc.

I did not try belt-mounting the battery pack. Leaving it strapped to the side of the unit didnt bother me, and it didnt feel off-balance.

I did not seem to have any issues with emi, and that first spot in town is pretty high.

I took the big coil, but didn't get a chance to use it either day.

When using the 12" coil, it still pinpointed well. After getting used to it, I am tempted to use the same methods more on my G2 and use the pinpoint button less. Save
battery.

The 12" coil did seem to be more susceptible to chatter when swinging. I added three more ties to the lower rod for the cable, but didnt get it to lessen. I will try it
again in drier circumstances as it could also have been due to having such an issue trying to ground balance that day.


Balance was really pretty good, and I am pretty sure I could swing it all day.




Tom,
The nicely mowed field that I wanted to try the really big coil on is at this time covered with geese and goose poop, so not sure that is a winner. If you have someone

else that wishes to try it let me know, otherwise I will try to get in another hunt with it. I appreciate the opportunity.

Nice review Rod, or shall I say Popeye.

Better lay off the spinach!! Lol

Nice report Rodman, enjoyed it.

Rod - You can take your time with it....... and try it in the areas that interest you the most. This is usually where the learning-curve is best.
Where you found a bunch more wheat's that were fairly shallow.......... did you test the G2 on these targets to see 'why' they were missed before?

Tom, I didn't miss those wheats with the g2. I skipped those. I dug well over 30 wheats from that same area, but skipped some knowing I would be testing the cf77.

tnsharpshooter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice review Rod, or shall I say Popeye.
>
> Better lay off the spinach!! Lol

Carrying kids in each arm a lot has the same effect as spinach, I have found, Tns

Ok Rod...... got it........ now I fully understand.

Up for grabs again. Who would like to test/try the CF77?

PM sent

I received the CF77 late Wednesday and had a chance to open it up. First impressions: Like the backpack/case the Pro package comes with. A place for everything and with the straps would make it convenient to carry if hunting large areas and needing to be able to use different size coils on different parts of the fields. Not something I would need but I mostly hunt parks, schools fields and home sites. I was surprised at the balance that it has even with the 16" coil. I have several places to try that a lot of the trash has been cleaned and the top soil is deeper that a majority of places here due to the clay. hoping to find a little extra depth at these old home sites. All the easy coin targets are gone. Do have a concern about placing it on the ground and it tilting over but will have to just place it on its side.
Will also be hitting 2 old school fields looking for gold rings. These also have deeper than normal top soil but still keep pulling deeper coins out when worked slowly.
the handle seems to allow me to move my hand up or down depending on what's needed for the size of the coil. Up for the 9" and down farther for the 16" coil. Still prefer a straight rod. Getting out after lunch so will try to report on this hunt at a property that has had activity on it since 1840. JR