Returning to the world Of BBS.....(1/19/17 Update..Picked up a scorcher of a GT went ahead and modded it too)

Exactly My point from earlier in the month post Daniel...BBS is 25 years old...still untouchable in certain aspects..

I feel detector tech peaked in the early 90s for depth...and even unmasking in single tone...the only advance that have really been made is Tone unmasking ..


DEPTH IS STALLED...

I'm Starting to think unmasking is too..

P.I. has moved forward in ground balancing but that's been around for a good decade now...


MANUFACTURERS...AHEM!!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

My only gripe on the CTX is that it hasn't got a SAT All-Metal like my Excalibur.
It would be wicked deep!
However the FBS/2 has great tone ID at depth, especially on sites where all the big iron is gone.
Amazing what I've seen it pull.

HH
Johnb

Any guesses or theories of why BBS seems to handle the bad ground better than FBS? I'm curious. With all of the FBS machines I've had, including the CTX, they wouldn't properly ID a coin past 5-6 inches in the ground. A silver quarter at 8" was non existing to them. The Sovereign can get an 8" quarter with the 10" coil with a good dig me tone. Very exciting.

Daniel, glad you broke through that barrier and good to see some spark in your step, good luck.

I wonder how long He will keep this one? LOL!

Hard to say Daniel...

I would think the BBS is something that Bruce probably envisioned for years before he built it..And quite possibly it was just done right ..straight clean and simple and uncomplicated..

It was built to handle Mineral...and built to handle trash...the VCO report of the audio coupled with DRAWN out type reports goes along ways in just looking at the ground along time and seeing a target...the DSP removes the ground and leaves the target so no ground balancing ...those long looks in bad dirt cna do wonders if it can decipher it..It looks at the mineral than anything that's different it reports...

You get one huge snapshot with BBS...sort of like the way the F75 in Cache mode just keep on looking...but usually the filters get swamped up in bad dirt by doing this..

the FBS grew out of the BBS and added more ways of doing things...FBS is faster and more advanced for trash work ...

BBS must be special because no one has done(COPIED) it and its been out for a quarter of a century..

there's multi freq for sure but there''s no BBS clone...

Is it the greatest thing ever ?NO..but it has advantages..Going deep in bad soil or even in wet salt sand.. and not digging iron is a couple of them..it has ability to unmask to if you give it time to analyze on your sweeps..and it has to have a ground matrix...

I't has to have that back ground radiation so it knows what's different..

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

I never saw a Minelab of any type do well in iron contamination, so what is all the hub bub?

Not sure I follow you Randy?

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Daniel you should hang on to this one as not many can bust through that Ole' Hot ground you got!

Keith Southern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure I follow you Randy?
>
> Keith
I've run a Minelab Explorer ll and a friend of mine has an E-Trac and another friend has a Sovereign, they are totally helpless in the iron nails. Once you get close to an old structure, they go into a sleepy null and do not pick up targets in the iron, at least that is my experience with them. My IDX Pro has run circles around these Minelabs in the iron trash...JMHO

O I see what your saying...

I like them to not fool with iron.Just to nab the big brass and High coins in heavy iron and trash...but when doing that yes there is a good bit of masking taking place on the intermingled smaller than say quarters....especially on a Sovereign..

Yet I have at times seen BBS make me do a head scratch when it sees something no other machine sees too like a belt buckle next to a plow point...try that with a VLF of any type and you will end up digging alot of plow points and no rewards..but the sovereign wont dig them but will dig the big brass intermingled with them..

I look at it as a tool..

But it's not a Super unmasker by no means..except on larger sizes that get above 50 cent sizes intermingled with large iron and the BBS will show off..

Thank's for the reply.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Hombre -- Horses for courses. Take that same IDX Pro against a Minelab on a wet saltwater beach or in hot red clay dirt and see what happens. You'll be ready to wrap it around the nearest tree. There will always be one machine that will handle specific sites and scenarios better than the others. The trick is knowing what to use and when, and having the resources to do so.

I've been using a pulse machine as my primary machine since 2009. I've had a GPX since approx 2011 and that one hasn't left my arsenal for any long period of time. They handle most of my site types the best but aren't for every site. But I mostly relic hunt, and that is a whole new ball game compared to coin hunting.

I would ALMOST sell this AT Gold I have but I like it for the all metal and iron disc range. In areas where I might be looking for iron relics...gun tools, cannonballs or fragments...that is a heck of a machine, handles the red dirt fairly well, and waterproof too. But I would prefer my GPX for hunting most of my camps for the bullets, buttons, etc. The Sovereign is exactly how Keith says. On medium to larger size brass and high conductors...yippie does it ever reach down there and latch onto them. If there is any deep bigger brass targets in a site...that machine is going to get it. Mine isn't so great on minie balls though especially in the ground. A minie at 7 inches is extremely difficult to get a signal on. Yet a copper penny right beside it at the same depth sounds pretty sweet.

Sorry I butt in, I shouldn't get in on posts about metal detectors that don't work for me in my ground.

I'll leave the FBS & BBS discussions for those that like them......

A couple quick questions.

Are the meters any count for the Sovereigns? They are expensive I know that much. From what I read, there is one called the Patriot meter that everybody really liked but is hard to come by.

What are some additional coil options to look into? Mine has the 10" tornado coil. I was thinking of something along the lines of a smaller coil and a larger one. There are a bunch out there on the market.

Paul Ca. Had a nice Patriot Meter Mod He did on His Sovereign. I like the analogs even though some say the digital meter is a little faster on Sovereign.

The meter not really needed unless you are after say coins and such in trash..

but for relics ...the tones is all you need..On a sovereign the good sounds good and the bad just sounds awful..and silver and big brass and such just sounds high and sweet..

aluminum will sound garbled and warbly..even say like vienna sausage can lids..they may be high tone but they sound awful..warble tone..were as a piece of good brass or silver just hold to the tone and does not warble ...Just smooth..


If you do get a meter the low profile stock one are my preference...they are mostly 550 range ...but some are 180 the last ones mad...the aftermarkets are all 180 or analog meter needle ..but they are a rare unit and probably cost more than the machine..

If you find a real early meter they were bargraph and is in the low profile housing...I sort of enjoyed that one but to be honest the numbers are easier to see..and another thing down to about 8 inches the meters are dead nut accurate..

If you locate a 550 meter it will jump a little more than a 180..On a 550 the dime may read from 545 to 550 but on a 180 it will read from like 179 to 180 ..BUT I can modify them I have all the parts..even the 1% resistors it takes...with the 180 you loose about 2/3rds of the jumpiness.

There's 17 tones on a sovereign and the meter is linked to the tones..so a highest tone will usually trigger the 180 or 550 so coins and big brass are easily got...

The nickels are a lower tone and they in my opinion till you get that exact tone in your head are easier got with a meter..

but to be honest after you get the tones in your head the meter is not really ever needed even in trash..But they are sort of fun to look at for reassurance on things at times in certain spots..

The best accessory coil you could get in my opinion would be the tornado 8....its only 7.25 and plenty deep...there's also a sunray 8 which is a full 8...Never used one though..I would think the tornado 8 would be all you need for Site work with a BBS..if I went to a 5 on it I would probably just drop over to the Fors Relic/F19/etc at that point..the 8 will separate well and keep the depth up that's what your after with this Sovereign..

There's a ton of Big ones..and as Big as I ever ran on a Sovereign was a 11 and the depth it got was astronomical..a Sovereign likes to run big coils.. a lot like a pulse machine in that respect of being able to handle them in the soil...I want to add a 13 Ultimate to my machine at some point.

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Keith-----Now you stop this!!!!-----You're getting me wishin I had a Sovereign---I'm too old for this!!-----Sounding good!----I wish I had of kept that one I got from Chris-OH.-------Del

Keith , I have the original Sovereign and the Sovereign XS that I purchased both new . Have you ever ran a Ultimate 13 on one ? Jim

Del..

Don't know what to say LOL!!

you only live once though


Jimmie..

No Sir I have never ran the 13 Ulitmate on the BBS..but have ran it on other detectors and I just like that coil and its a deep one..I could only surmise it would add inch or two to a Sovereign..

and still be lite and still offer some separation.. If it was a no go I would probably go to a 10x12 sef...I ran that on the FBS and AWESOME coil..I would bet the Ultimate is also a AWESOME coil on FBS to boot..

Make's you wonder how much better they are than the 10 Tornado..the 10 tornado seems about as deep as the 11 coinsearch I use to run on the Sov. XS..although the 11 coinsearch was way heavy and it seems to offer more broader response in all metal and disc Vs the Tornado..but once targets are centered they both are way deep and seem about equal in depth ..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2016 10:47PM by Keith Southern.

I ran the SunRay coil and I think it was 11 inch and did not like it , then I purchased the WOT and it was even worse than the SunRay coil. Its hard to beat the stock 8" coil on them. I also purchased the Excalibur with the 8" Horse Shoe Coil and still have all three detectors.

I've heard nothing but good things about the 10x12 SEF. on the Sovereigns. I'm testing the NEL Hunter 8.5x12.5 right now on my GT. Took it for it's first spin this morning on a really nasty mineralized beach that has an old 800 ft. dock that is used for fishing and swimming. I've always used my Sunray S-8 for my land and beach hunting especially on a beach like this because it's just littered with iron. The NEL Sharpshooter 5.5x9.5 might have been a better choice here. I'll have to take the 8.5x12.5 to some of my old land sites to see if it has any noticable depth advantage over the S-8.

Try as I might, I couldn't find a Ultimate 13 coil for sale in the US. There were several from the UK for sale but I didn't trust the seller's profile. They had several listings for the Ultimate 13 for the Sovereign, but had different prices for them...varied as much as $20 for the same shipping and everything. Not sure what that was about but it threw up red flags for me so I let them be.

I have a love/hate relationship with the NEL/Cors coils. I really liked the Tornado on the F75 but not that impressed with their 8.5x12 on the AT Gold. So I took a chance and got the Cors Strike 12x13 for the Sovereign. It should be here some time this week. I will take it down to the bullet place and see what I can come up with.

One thing I thought of last night out of the blue. I notice I have been getting better than normal results with things buried in the ground with some of these vlf machines I've had recently. It dawned on me that the soil here at my new house may not be as severely mineralized as it was back at my old place. I don't have a machine to give me a mineral reading here but I suspect that is what is going on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2016 01:28PM by Daniel Tn.

Hey Keith (gotta brag a little) = here's my new BBS/Sov

It's even waterproof!

Mounted on an Anderson straight shaft with over/under mount for extremely good Bal. with the 8" Tornado coil. I can swing this sucker all day.

Way WAY better than the 1st one I had like 15 yrs ago on the S shaft with 10" coil = that sucker was heavy and hurt your wrist

Air test w/this tiny little coil are off the charts! Hitting 1/2 dollar size stuff at 14" no prob! Plates/buckles I'm sure it'll hit 18" in my dirt.

Gonna see if I can't pull some nice stuff at a few of my sites that I know are hiding goodies deep down and/or that the High Gain units have missed (gonna hit the beach/water too)

More to come/will report back

Best larger sized coil I had on my Sov was the Sunray Intruder 12.5" DD, awesome coil. Light, accurate and deeeeep! I had a 15" WOT and hated it, but the Sunray coil, for water hunting, couldn't be beat!

Daniel Tn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try as I might, I couldn't find a Ultimate 13 coil
> for sale in the US. There were several from the
> UK for sale but I didn't trust the seller's
> profile. They had several listings for the
> Ultimate 13 for the Sovereign, but had different
> prices for them...varied as much as $20 for the
> same shipping and everything. Not sure what that
> was about but it threw up red flags for me so I
> let them be.
>
> I have a love/hate relationship with the NEL/Cors
> coils. I really liked the Tornado on the F75 but
> not that impressed with their 8.5x12 on the AT
> Gold. So I took a chance and got the Cors Strike
> 12x13 for the Sovereign. It should be here some
> time this week. I will take it down to the bullet
> place and see what I can come up with.
>
> One thing I thought of last night out of the blue.
> I notice I have been getting better than normal
> results with things buried in the ground with some
> of these vlf machines I've had recently. It
> dawned on me that the soil here at my new house
> may not be as severely mineralized as it was back
> at my old place. I don't have a machine to give
> me a mineral reading here but I suspect that is
> what is going on.

Hey Wayne

SWEET!!!!

Nice rig for sure..already got a Custom Rod..

I'm Jealous...Thanks for messing up my evening...LOL

Good luck with it!!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Hey Daniel I would holdout and ask around find a used one..

they pop up....end of summer alot of that stuff will pop up when the beach hunters get done..

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

always heard good things on the Sunray 12 Cal.

I got a Sunray 8 I need to run and see what it does.

good info!

Keith

“I don't care that they stole my idea . . I care that they don't have any of their own”
-Nikola Tesla

Try the 12x10 SEF... getting tough to find....I want to put one on my Excal.
I run one on my Sov GT and I wish I had three more as spares.
I also have the 10" Tornado, 12 x 15 SEF, and the 8" Coinsearch.
Nothing compares to the 12 x 10. It's a freakin finder.
These are slow swingers.
I only hunt the beach so your mileage may differ.
It's tough for me to chime in because you folks are top notch and passionate but this thread is interesting.
The 12 x 10 is for real (at the beach)...at least for me.
FYI, I live near Daytona, tomorrow I will be in Boca for a couple of days and the rest of the month I will have the Sov, Dual Field or Excal swingin in Deerfield, Lauderdale, Naples, Clearwater and Pensacola.
If you have a 12 x 10 you want to sell...send me a pm.

I have a S 12 coil on my waterproofed Soveign and it works awesome at the beaches that I hunt. Very easy to swing in the water and out. The waterproof enclosure is really too heavy for using out of the water for very long, however...Stuart

If you want a cheap 180 meter I will say for the record that Ron's meters work very well. They can be had for around 60 to 70 bucks. The meters do allow you to cherry pick coins. As I have said many times on the forums a sovereign with a 180 meter is the best nickel hunting machine out there. You can hunt a field of pull tabs all day and just pluck the nickels by watching the accurate vdi numbers. I dug many buffs and v's where people cherry picked the silver. Some times you have to hunt what other people have left behind.